Is callout culture white privilege?

Deleted member 4461 · Mar 23, 2019

I'll keep it short and clear.

I get the idea of calling people out because the justice system has failed. And I get that we should believe women & victims.

But like... historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them. So it's easy for them to support callout culture in an attempt to be fair to potential victims.

Black people have had to worry about false accusations against us. Waiting for evidence is typically, then, more valuable. Because historically, the justice system has grossly failed US in that regard.

EDIT: Because the importance of context doesn't appear to be on curriculums anymore: obviously white people have been falsely accused before. Minorities have had it worse and they've been killed for it more often. Good lord.

EDIT 2: This has nothing to do with Michael Jackson or whoever your favorite celebrity is. What is wrong with you people?

Winter-John · Mar 23, 2019

"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Your absolutely correct. We've never had to worry about false accusations because no white people have ever been falsely accused of crimes or spent years in jail for crimes they didn't commit.

Deleted member 4461 · Mar 23, 2019

Winter-John said:
"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Your absolutely correct. We've never had to worry about false accusations because no white people have ever been falsely accused of crimes or spent years in jail for crimes they didn't commit.

I guess we can start off by intentionally missing the point. But considering you *know* I meant that minorities suffer from it more often, you'll have to excuse me if I ignore your replies here.

Vic Damone Jr. · Mar 23, 2019

Winter-John said:
"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Your absolutely correct. We've never had to worry about false accusations because no white people have ever been falsely accused of crimes or spent years in jail for crimes they didn't commit.

They probably meant to the same degree as as other races, like black people for example. No need to get defensive.

saenima · Mar 23, 2019

I don't know how to respond to this thread. On one hand, i understand where you're coming from and what you mean. On another, that OP is kinda poorly worded and it's gonna invite a lot of #NotAllWhiteMen unnecessarily. On yet another note i am a white man so i feel like i should shut up about this even though i kinda agree with the sentiment?

Edit: and there it is immediately lol

Angry Grimace · Mar 23, 2019

There's no such thing as "callout culture."

It's a thing people do on the internet and not in real life.

deepFlaw · Mar 23, 2019

It's not really such a simple/binary thing. Privilege absolutely plays a part in "callout culture" but you need to look at the context/dynamics involved in each situation. If a white person is calling out someone of color, you can just examine that and keep that in mind?

And I feel such things are already discussed when discussing "callout culture"- for example, how LGBT people can get ruthlessly attacked by their peers if a character they create isn't ideal representation, while giving cishet creators way more allowance to fuck up. But at the same time you have people who take advantage of that by going "fucking callout culture!!" when they said something genuinely terrible and are being criticized for it. It's complicated.

So... just keep that stuff in mind, but it's not like nobody should be called out ever.

Winter-John · Mar 23, 2019

The Last Wizard said:
They probably meant to the same degree as as other races, like black people for example. No need to get defensive.

It's not "defensive" to criticise someone who posts this kind of blatant nonsense -

"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

It's so monumentally ignorant. It's impossible to know where to begin. If people were to criticise the brutality that poc have suffered at the hands of cops and the legal system that would be something we could all agree on. However, stating that white people haven't had to worry about false accusations is so monumentally ignorant it's actually offensive.

Deleted member 1248 · Mar 23, 2019

This thread was taken over by white fragility in record time.

Amazing.

Winter-John · Mar 23, 2019

The Kree said:
This thread was taken over by white fragility in record time.

Amazing.

"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

gamma · Mar 23, 2019

Vermillion said:
I guess we can start off by intentionally missing the point. But considering you *know* I meant that minorities suffer from it more often, you'll have to excuse me if I ignore your replies here.

"I said one thing but meant another. How dare you not read my mind?!"

kittenbreath · Mar 23, 2019

Winter-John said:
"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Your absolutely correct. We've never had to worry about false accusations because no white people have ever been falsely accused of crimes or spent years in jail for crimes they didn't commit.

When the OP used the word "destroy" he might have meant it literally, not figuratively. Historically false accusations of sexual misconduct against white women by black men haven't just resulted in loss of personal reputation or false imprisonments, but lynchings and pogroms against entire communities.

You can debate the relevance of that to modern callout culture and the #metoo movement, which is emerging out of a different cultural context, but try not to get hung up on one word.

Dyle · Mar 23, 2019

There are a lot of reasons why callout culture is problematic and ineffective and I think this is definitely one of them. The burden of proof placed on certain groups of people, whether by race, gender, or class, can be dramatically different and is a form of unconscious bias that is extremely hard to address effectively. I'm not sure how to best tackle it and make it so that callout culture can be a more positive movement

Winter-John said:
"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Way to be obtuse. How many white men were lynched over false accusations of sexual misconduct?

Deleted member 4461 · Mar 23, 2019

Angry Grimace said:
There's no such thing as "callout culture."

It's a thing people do on the internet and not in real life.

The internet is very much a part of real life and affects real life heavily.

deepFlaw said:
It's not really such a simple/binary thing. Privilege absolutely plays a part in "callout culture" but you need to look at the context/dynamics involved in each situation. If a white person is calling out someone of color, you can just examine that and keep that in mind?

And I feel such things are already discussed when discussing "callout culture"- for example, how LGBT people can get ruthlessly attacked by their peers if a character they create isn't ideal representation, while giving cishet creators way more allowance to fuck up. But at the same time you have people who take advantage of that by going "fucking callout culture!!" when they said something genuinely terrible and are being criticized for it. It's complicated.

So... just keep that stuff in mind, but it's not like nobody should be called out ever.

I think you're 100% right. There are definitely people who use it in that way, so maybe I should make a distinction for people who are saying shitty things (and get piled on) vs people who are accused of something. What do you think?

gamma said:
"I said one thing but meant another. How dare you not read my mind?!"

I dunno. Most people in the thread seem to have gotten it.

Winter-John · Mar 23, 2019

Dyle said:
There are a lot of reasons why callout culture is problematic and ineffective and I think this is definitely one of them. The burden of proof placed on certain groups of people, whether by race, gender, or class, can be dramatically different and is a form of unconscious bias that is extremely hard to address effectively. I'm not sure how to best tackle it and make it so that callout culture can be a more positive movement

Way to be obtuse. How many white men were lynched over false accusations of sexual misconduct?

Obtuse? I quoted the op. That is not obtuse. These are his words.

"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Verano · Mar 23, 2019

I guess if white people do it.

Order · Mar 23, 2019

Winter-John said:
"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Think about this

That comment was probably the only racist shit directed to you in your entire life

just a slowpoke · Mar 23, 2019

i love to go online and willfully misinterpret posts to stifle any and all discussion

Winter-John · Mar 23, 2019

Order said:
Think about this

That comment was probably the only racist shit directed to you in your entire life

Think about this

You have no idea what I've been through in my life so how about you keep your ignorant comments to yourself

Mesoian · Mar 23, 2019

Welp, 17 posts and we're already mired in semantics. This thread is DOA.

Winter-John · Mar 23, 2019

Sianos said:
i love to go online and willfully misinterpret posts to stifle any and all discussion

"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Deleted member 14313 · Mar 23, 2019

Angry Grimace said:
There's no such thing as "callout culture."

It's a thing people do on the internet and not in real life.

The internet is a part of real life and groups within it can have cultures.

Winter-John · Mar 23, 2019

Mesoian said:
Welp, 17 posts and we're already mired in semantics. This thread is DOA.

"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Fat4all · Mar 23, 2019

Winter-John said:
Think about this

You have no idea what I've been through in my life so how about you keep your ignorant comments to yourself

well the important thing is you found a way to make the thread about you, so congrats

just a slowpoke · Mar 23, 2019

unfortunately, since the original post of this thread was insufficiently politically correct in its description of the white experience, i guess there will just be no discussion now

anyways here's a link to the wikipedia page on the history of lynching in the united states

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

Mesoian · Mar 23, 2019

Winter-John said:
"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

And continues to be.

Like, instead of actually trying to refute that statement, you just quoted it 10 times and then made a personal statement when others tried to clarify.

So...thanks for that.

Dyle · Mar 23, 2019

I apologize OP, but I guess you got your answer

Winter-John said:
Obtuse? I quoted the op. That is not obtuse. These are his words.

"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_(language_use)

Deleted member 1088 · Mar 23, 2019

Is this a stealth thread defending pedophilia?

just a slowpoke · Mar 23, 2019

A major motive for lynchings, particularly in the South, was the white society's efforts to maintain white supremacy after emancipation of slaves following the American Civil War. It punished perceived violations of customs, later institutionalized as Jim Crow laws, which mandated racial segregation of whites and blacks, and second-class status for blacks. A 2017 paper found that more racially segregated counties were more likely to be places where whites conducted lynchings.[31]Economic competition was another major factor; independent black farmers or businessmen were sometimes lynched or suffered destruction of their property. In the Deep South, the number of lynchings was higher in areas with a concentration of blacks in an area (such as a county), dependent on cotton at a time of low cotton prices, rising inflation, a predominance of Democrats, and competition among religious groups.

Whites sometimes lynched blacks for financial gain, and sometimes to establish political or economic dominance. These lynchings emphasized the new social order constructed under Jim Crow; whites acted together, reinforcing their collective identity along with the unequal status of blacks through these group acts of violence.[32] In much of the Deep South, lynchings peaked in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, as white racists turned to terrorism to dissuade blacks from voting in a period of disenfranchisement. In the Mississippi Delta, lynchings of blacks increased beginning in the late 19th century as white planters tried to control former slaves who had become landowners or sharecroppers. Lynchings had a seasonal pattern in the Mississippi Delta; they were frequent at the end of the year, when sharecroppers and tenant farmers tried to settle their accounts.

In the 1890s, African American journalist and anti-lynching crusader Ida B. Wells conducted one of the first thorough investigations of lynching cases. She found that black lynching victims were accused of rape or attempted rape about one-third of the time (although sexual infractions were widely cited as reasons for the crime). The most prevalent accusation was murder or attempted murder, followed by a list of infractions that included verbal and physical aggression, spirited business competition, and independence of mind among victims. Lynch mob "policing" usually led to white mobs murdering persons suspected of crimes or more casual infractions.

Winter-John · Mar 23, 2019

Fat4all said:
well the important thing is you found a way to make the thread about you, so congrats

All I've done is criticize the op's ignorance and defend myself from people like you who came into the thread to insult me. If the op had admitted it was a dumb thing to post we'd have moved on long ago and people like yourself wouldn't be throwing insults around,.

Mesoian · Mar 23, 2019

Sianos said:
unfortunately, since the original post of this thread was insufficiently politically correct in its description of the white experience, i guess there will just be no discussion now

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

The dollop taught me about where the concept of the Welfare Queen came from, which basically used one example of a clearly mentally unstable woman to paint and entire race.

http://thedollop.libsyn.com/260-the-welfare-queen-live-in-chicago

To answer the OP's flawed question, no, it's not white privilege, being able to DUCK callout culture was a large part of white privilege due to the media and press basically painting unsuspecting white middle America as the defacto standard of Americana, an idea which could do no wrong. People attempted to call out bad behavior on white people in power and influence for ages, but we're most commonly ignored because the built perception was that those with power and influence were right and just, even when they weren't. We still see this today when defense forces come out of the wood work for people who have clearly and admittedly done harm.

L Thammy · Mar 23, 2019

I think it plays a role, but it's far more complex than "Is callout culture white privilege?"

What's being called callout culture is a tool by less powerful victims and those that support them against abusers who are too powerful to approach through more normal means like the justice system, or whom those means are improperly designed to punish. It's perhaps most effective as a tool used by white victims against powerful white people, and in that sense it's white privilege. It's no less valid when used by minorities, but it may be less likely to be heard and accepted.

It's also not invalid to say that false accusations have been weapons against minorities. I'm not sure if that's part of the "callout culture" you're talking about. I actually think it's probably older.

DigitalOp · Mar 23, 2019

This shit DOA

The Fabled Englishman · Mar 23, 2019

Mesoian said:
Welp, 17 posts and we're already mired in semantics. This thread is DOA.

Frankly, the OP leaves itself open to being interpreted really quite uncharitably. It really depends on what is meant by 'callout culture' but it seems to imply that certain classes of people should be exempt from supporting victims on the grounds of historical oppression - which is a pretty dubious claim to make.

Deleted member 4461 · Mar 23, 2019

Tall4Life said:
Is this a stealth thread defending pedophilia?

God, no. What happened now? Is this still 6ix9ine?

Deleted member 1088 · Mar 23, 2019

Vermillion said:
God, no. What happened now? Is this still 6ix9ine?

This is clearly a thread to basically suggest Michael Jackson did nothing wrong without explicitly saying it

OP is more or less right about his explicit point but they're so obviously arguing in bad faith

Mesoian · Mar 23, 2019

Vermillion said:
God, no. What happened now? Is this still 6ix9ine?

Let's just say, the Streisand Effect is...perhaps more real than it's ever been.

Sweeney Swift · Mar 23, 2019

Winter-John said:
Think about this

You have no idea what I've been through in my life so how about you keep your ignorant comments to yourself

I know you have less than 200 posts in your history here, just trolled a thread, admitted to trolling a thread, and admitted to being proud of it, so I have an idea (with a lot of evidence behind it) that what you've been through in your life won't involve this forum for much longer

Amnesty · Mar 23, 2019

Angry Grimace said:
There's no such thing as "callout culture."

It's a thing people do on the internet and not in real life.

The internet is in real life.

DigitalOp · Mar 23, 2019

What you're trying to say OP is that rarely minorities get the benefit of the doubt when accused with crimes.

And as a result, false accusations can end up potentially more damaging than compared to white people being accused
.

Claude Augario · Mar 23, 2019

What the fuck happened in here.

HylianSeven · Mar 23, 2019

Mesoian said:
Let's just say, the Streisand Effect is...perhaps more real than it's ever been.

Tall4Life said:
This is clearly a thread to basically suggest Michael Jackson did nothing wrong without explicitly saying it

How did this go to Michael Jackson and the Streisand thing recently? (I assume you mean the thing Streisand said and not just the streisand effect, right?) I'm genuinely asking as I seem to have missed something and would like to know how it relates.

Edit: I haven't watched the documentary, but as I understand it with my limited knowledge Jackson basically got away with it before he died, and Streisand was making a fucking awful defense of him.

Order · Mar 23, 2019

Winter-John said:
Think about this

You have no idea what I've been through in my life so how about you keep your ignorant comments to yourself

All I know is you're racist tbh

thesoapster · Mar 23, 2019

Tall4Life said:
Is this a stealth thread defending pedophilia?

Hadn't even thought of this...goddamn.

Deleted member 6582 · Mar 23, 2019

I'm not sure if I buy this argument but call-out are absolutely a way to raise stakes against whites in an attempt to counteract privillage (or perhaps to make things suck more evenly). Though closely related is being offended on behalf of others which is just white savior bullshit, totally privillaged, and we need to cut that shit out and let others drive.

Mr. X · Mar 23, 2019

Please stop getting derailed by this and their follow ups

Winter-John said:
"historically, white people haven't had to worry about false accusations destroying them."

Your absolutely correct. We've never had to worry about false accusations because no white people have ever been falsely accused of crimes or spent years in jail for crimes they didn't commit.

They aren't thinking shit like Emmet Till

Deleted member 1088 · Mar 23, 2019

HylianSeven said:
How did this go to Michael Jackson and the Streisand thing recently? (I assume you mean the thing Streisand said and not just the streisand effect, right?) I'm genuinely asking as I seem to have missed something and would like to know how it relates.

Ever since the Neverland documentary came out there's been a very passionate sect of users who were defending MJ, saying that he missed his childhood, loved children, and that anyone who thought he probably did sexually assault or have strong pedophillic tendencies to children believes so out of racism

It got mostly squashed but with the timing of this thread, its kind of a dogwhistle that he was innocent

Streisand said that even if he did rape the children they evidently dont have any current trauma so its fine

just a slowpoke · Mar 23, 2019

Mesoian said:
The dollop taught me about where the concept of the Welfare Queen came from, which basically used one example of a clearly mentally unstable woman to paint and entire race.

http://thedollop.libsyn.com/260-the-welfare-queen-live-in-chicago

To answer the OP's flawed question, no, it's not white privilege, being able to DUCK callout culture was a large part of white privilege due to the media and press basically painting unsuspecting white middle America as the defacto standard of Americana, an idea which could do no wrong. People attempted to call out bad behavior on white people in power and influence for ages, but we're most commonly ignored because the built perception was that those with power and influence were right and just, even when they weren't. We still see this today when defense forces come out of the wood work for people who have clearly and admittedly done harm.

there being a single original ~WELFARE QUEEN~ from which conservatives derived the stereotypes they used to slander an entire race both makes perfect sense and yet was something i never explicitly considered

really goes to show that nothing an individual does on their own can dispel racism, because the racists will search as hard as necessary to.find a single person to justify their narrative

i do think a way that white privilege plays into "callout culture" is that some people who have never had the threat of false accusations be a salient force in their life use "call outs" inappropriately and immaturely as weapons in foolish online squabble

TheGhost · Mar 23, 2019

People get falsely accused all the time, it's not a contest

HylianSeven · Mar 23, 2019

Tall4Life said:
Ever since the Neverland documentary came out there's been a very passionate sect of users who were defending MJ, saying that he missed his childhood, loved children, and that anyone who thought he probably did sexually assault or have strong pedophillic tendencies to children believes so out of racism

It got mostly squashed but with the timing of this thread, its kind of a dogwhistle that he was innocent

Streisand said that even if he did rape the children they evidently dont have any current trauma so its fine

Jesus, I don't know how people can defend him. Thanks for clearing it up though.

Is callout culture white privilege?

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