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Is Captain America superhuman or peak human?

  • Superhuman

    Votes: 804 80.4%
  • Peak human

    Votes: 196 19.6%

  • Total voters
    1,000
  • Poll closed .

SaiST

Member
Oct 25, 2017
257
nel e nel too?! Am I more tired than I think I am? What is it about the way I'm wording these posts that's making you guys think that I'm saying T'Challa isn't superhuman without the suit?

His suit is for protection and offense, doesn't make him any stronger or faster.
Definitely Superhuman in the MCU. Hawkeye, Widow are peak human.

Once T'challa ingested the herb, he became superhuman. The suit is just enhanced protection and nice gadgets.
Slayven and Hyun Sai confirmed that what I had gathered from the MCU is also the same in the comics. Thank you!
 
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bwahhhhh

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,163
In the comics I always imagined Cap to be peak human in every category, in a way a normal human never could be. ie, fast like Usain Bolt, while able to deadlift like an Olympic world record lifter, while also having the endurance of an ultra marathoner, reflexes of... whatever athlete has the best reflexes :) Maybe a bit over the world record of each athletic event. So, he was out of Batman's league, basically, since no human can train to be the best in all of those events, there have to be trade-offs between strength and speed, but not with Cap.

In the MCU he is clearly superhuman, outrunning cars, curling helicopters, etc.

MCU Cap is somewhere between Batman and Spider-man.

As someone else mentioned, his powers seemed more peak-human in TFA and Avengers 1 with some exceptions, but by Civil War he was clearly superhuman, and able to pull Spider-man by his own webbing, too.

edit: not to mention that punch by Thanos should have knocked his head clean off or turned it into a pulpy mist.

edit edit: dang it
 
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Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
I think "peak human" needs to be properly defined.

As I understand it, "peak human" means that you're rubbing up against the absolute scientific limits of what can possibly be achieved, while still being classified as "human". An average human could train for their entire lives and maybe reach the level of "peak human" in one specific area. Cap is mostly supposed to be peak human in nearly every possible way. That combination of ridiculous strengths can result in feats that defy expectations, but which (scientifically speaking) could plausibly have been performed by a flesh-and-blood human being, even if no such human exists. And yet, Cap performs an assorted variety of those feats on a daily basis.

Batman is not peak human. Batman is far beyond what an ordinary human can hope to achieve, but that doesn't mean that (in any or all areas) his growth has been stopped only by the absolute scientific limit of his species.

I think Wolverine is a good example to talk about when talking about peak human. Wolverine's primary mutation is his healing factor, which largely gifts him with a nearly-peak human physique as a secondary side effect. Every time Wolverine wakes up and yawns, his healing factor-supported body responds as if he just went through a Rocky IV training montage, which is why Wolverine is constantly jacked. He has absolutely perfect eyesight. His fingers have the sensitivity of a professional safecracker, and his nose can be used to track people like a bloodhound, because his senses are as fresh and raw as a newborn baby's. These are peak human traits, and they didn't directly come from his mutation (they came indirectly from his mutation). Which is why they can't exceed the absolute limits of humanity. Although his healing factor gives him a boost to his endurance and stamina, which means that on the whole, Wolverine does go beyond peak human. He has poison and disease resistance which is beyond peak human. He doesn't age. His claws (and adamantium bones, when he has those) are more than human. Basically, the healing factor pushes Wolverine up to the level of peak human (as the Super Soldier Serum was supposed to do for Cap), and then Wolverine's mutant power pushes him over the edge into superhuman.

I think that Cap is mostly supposed to be peak human, but... maybe he's not? Maybe he crosses the line? The Super Soldier Serum brought him to the level of peak human (which means he could kick Batman's ass), but it might have pushed him over the edge into superhuman. There were some gamma rays used during the Super Soldier process, so it's possible that Cap might have a tiny bit of The Hulk inside of him, or perhaps the radiation triggered a mutation.

T'Challa by the way, was well below the bar of peak human (he was just a regular fit and well-trained guy), and then he used a superhuman substance (the magic vibranium flowers) to boost his strength beyond that level of ordinary. That DOES NOT mean that T'Challa's strength has exceeded the bar set by peak human. It means that T'Challa's unusual strength is not human in origin, and that it could plausibly exceed peak human (because it's running on a different track now), but it's not clear if it actually does or doesn't exceed the level of peak human.
 

Deleted member 2802

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,729
He's somewhere between Batman and Spider-man in the MCU.
leonardo-dicaprio-inception-youtube-actor-film-leonardo-dicaprio-thumb.jpg
 

MrZaha

Member
Jan 9, 2018
482
I remember a character in marvel comics i cant recall his name though but i think it was during the 50 states initiative thing after civil war. He was peak human same as cap and had the same stregth just like he did and people though he got it from super powers but he revealed he only got it throught training only.
 
Originally I think he was intended to be portrayed as an essentially perfect athlete. The super soldier serum basically insuring that all of his "stats" were maxed out, which might not be practical for a single human, but theoretically possible.

Today, in most versions, Cap's "peak human potential" is portrayed as what the human body could hypothetically evolve into. Pushing up against the limits of the very materials the body is constructed of. No non-serum human could achieve the same thing, no matter how much they exercised. In that sense, Cap is "super human", but not presented as "supernaturally super human". He doesn't have magic muscles that let him lift 100 tons, or magic skin that is somehow bullet-proof while still looking and feeling like it is made of human skin cells.
 

Liquor

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,715
MCU Widow, comic Widow is a 85 year old super solider her self

Yea, MCU one is the one I'd assume we were speaking of since MCU Cap's action (of jumping out of a window on a shield from numerous stories in the air) is the one we are referring to.

She would have walked away fine.
The Vibranium would have absorbed all the impact.

Discounting air resistance she could stand on the shield and jump off the empire state land and just walk away.

Again, it won't take away the impact of falling on a hard surface. It's not magic. It will not magically make your body not move anymore. When Cap is hit and shot at and slapped, he still MOVES because it's not magic. Impact absorption is not even a comic book thing. Your Car does it. Crumple zones. Football armor does it. Hell, regular ol' shields do it. Cap's shield just does it to a greater extent than the tech we have. T'Challa is still tossed around like a rag doll if Hulk or Thanos or someone/something really strong hits him. And he still gets hurt.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,390
Yea, MCU one is the one I'd assume we were speaking of since MCU Cap's action (of jumping out of a window on a shield from numerous stories in the air) is the one we are referring to.



Again, it won't take away the impact of falling on a hard surface. It's not magic. It will not magically make your body not move anymore. When Cap is hit and shot at and slapped, he still MOVES because it's not magic. Impact absorption is not even a comic book thing. Your Car does it. Crumple zones. Football armor does it. Hell, regular ol' shields do it. Cap's shield just does it to a greater extent than the tech we have. T'Challa is still tossed around like a rag doll if Hulk or Thanos or someone/something really strong hits him. And he still gets hurt.

The Black Panther suit is Vibranium lined not completely Vibranium like the shield.

See Thor hitting captain americas shield.
Cap barely if at all flinches even if its a full force hit from Mjolnir.

A fall from a few stories is nothing compared to the force of a hit from Thor and Mjolnir.

tumblr_m6zf1nSIC71rzve6xo1_500.gif


658fe641d28d5e1800674f5ba750df1e.gif


Couldnt find better gifs and im lazy to make new ones sorry.

P.S Vibranium might as well be magic its a frikken comic book material it can do whatever the writers want it to do.
 

Liquor

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,715
The Black Panther suit is Vibranium lined not completely Vibranium like the shield.

See Thor hitting captain americas shield.
Cap barely if at all flinches even if its a full force hit from Mjolnir.

A fall from a few stories is nothing compared to the force of a hit from Thor and Mjolnir.

tumblr_m6zf1nSIC71rzve6xo1_500.gif


658fe641d28d5e1800674f5ba750df1e.gif


Couldnt find better gifs and im lazy to make new ones sorry.

P.S Vibranium might as well be magic its a frikken comic book material it can do whatever the writers want it to do.

My argument is that if Coleson was the one of the other side it would have been a different story.
 

OmniGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,761
Cap's shield's vibranium properties are inconsistent in the MCU....sometimes it deadens all impact, and sometimes Cap is propelled away by the impact
 

Burly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,086
He's definitely Superhuman in the MCU. The First Avenger has a scene in which Steve laments that he can't get drunk due to the regenerative abilities given to him by the serum. If that's not a confirmation then I don't know what is.

Ding Ding. He admits to having a non-human level metabolism.

 

DonMigs85

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,770
I doubt even the peakest human could prevent a helicopter from taking off and not lose their arm
 
OP
OP
Yasuke

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
So, the suit doesn't further enhance his already superhuman strength in the comics either? 'cause that's the way I saw it in the movies

No. That's not how it works in the movies, either.

P.S I think MCU makes him seem Super but once Spider-man was introduced we saw what Super human strength and dexterity actually were

He tossed Spider-Man around in a literal tug of war. I get some of that is Peter being inexperienced, but dude is squarely in the superhuman category.

There being several tiers above him doesn't make him not one. It's all relative.
The Black Panther suit is Vibranium lined not completely Vibranium like the shield.

See Thor hitting captain americas shield.
Cap barely if at all flinches even if its a full force hit from Mjolnir.

A fall from a few stories is nothing compared to the force of a hit from Thor and Mjolnir.

tumblr_m6zf1nSIC71rzve6xo1_500.gif


658fe641d28d5e1800674f5ba750df1e.gif


Couldnt find better gifs and im lazy to make new ones sorry.

P.S Vibranium might as well be magic its a frikken comic book material it can do whatever the writers want it to do.

Cap barely flinches?

He has to pick himself off the ground afterwards.

Where did this "Cap's shield protects him from any shock damage at all" even come from? Even in the Winter Soldier example, he doesn't hop off the ground like it was nothing. He's clearly shaken up to shit.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,159
Captain America has the superhuman ability to have the absolute maximum human potential (compared to other humans in his universe) in all of his abilities.

Basically, a Marvel human can train to be as fast as cap, or as strong as Cap, or as agile as Cap, but no regular human can train to be as fast, strong, and agile as Cap is
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,260
You need to read more Marvel comics.

If we are talking MCU its tough because such scalings are never explicity stated.
But comic steve is peak human.

As in on the grading there is
Sub Human - People or beings actually weaker than most humans
Human - The average man(Think bruce banner)
Trained(Athletic) Humans - Think people who gym a lot(alot of none super strength heroes are here)
Peak Human - The absolute max a human could reach
Super Human - Anything outside the realm of what a human could achieve.

Nothing Steve does is outside the realm of what a human could achieve so he is peak human, how he got there doesnt matter...its the actual result that matters.
He is just peak at pretty much every category.

Thats pretty much how "powerlevels" are ranked, its not about how you got there, its about where you are.

Otherwise you could get characters who were crippled or super weak took some serum that let them walk are they now Super Humans because they can walk even if their strength, speed whatever is normal levels?
Steve ran an mile in a minute in the comics. That's outside of human realm.

The power scaling you're using is well out of date. Cap's feats have exceeded his guide book power level since the 90s at the very least. Saying Cap is peak human is like saying Hulk and Carol Danvers are Class 50 to Class 75 at rest when they greatly exceed Class 100 even without powering up.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,640
MCU cap is superhuman, same as Black Panther (hence that scene from IW with both of them running together at same pace).
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,640
In Civil War, T'Challa without the suit was the only one able to hold his own against a brainwashed Bucky, who has about the same power level as Cap. In the Black Panther film, it's explicitly stated that the heart shaped herb gives the Black Panther superhuman abilities.
Yep, heart shaped herb makes him superhuman. It's very obvious to see based on the feats he accomplishes, plus the suit won't make him faster on his own and yet he's able to run as fast as Cap.
I'm pretty sure he already had the Black Panther mantle in Civil War and had consumed the heart shaped herb. Then his powers were taken away before the ceremony where he ends up fighting M'baku.
 

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,143
And this is where there is a huge difference: peak human condition implies training and hard work to achieve. A serum does not make you peak human, it makes you superhuman. Not "Superman-like" superhuman, but since your abilities have not been acquired through natural means, therefore you are superhuman, not peak human. Even if, in this particular case, this superhuman specimen is "only" a few times faster and stronger than a regular human.
so maybe what the supersoldier serum did was boost him to peak human potential. Transforming him into something like a triathlete Olympian. I suppose that's what it was in the 616 comics anyway.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,050
Because I find him to be overpowered.

Others in this thread have suggested he's peak human in the comics and I'd prefer if they kept him that way in the MCU.

That wouldn"t be good at all.

He needs to be superhuman to battle who he does in the MCU.

Comic "peak human" is utter nonsense, too. It regularly flits between what it says and superhuman depending on context. It was never a good way to phrase it and never made any sense.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
He's supposed to be Peak Human, but almost no one ever wants to actually write him that way.

It's sort of like how Spider-Man's Spider Sense is supposed to be ridiculously overpowered, but it's kind of obnoxious to actually write around it so most authors just kind of waggle a limp hand at it and go "naw, tho".
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Running at over 60mph (calculation here: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/que...-bucky-tchalla-and-steve-running-in-civil-war):

NNDk.gif


Repeatedly surviving above fatal fall distances:

captain-america-skydiving-in-water.gif


Curling a Helicopter capable of 3000lbs of thrust:

giphy-2gif.gif



Throwing a 500lb-ish bike mid saumersault:

4496546-j1sxr.gif


Half-heartedly kicking fully grown human being in likely heavy armor several metres through the air from a standstill:

4981644-0850172999-x5U5b.gif

4782579-strength+9.gif


The same but doing so jumping several metres into the air and with enough force to avoid bouncing backwards off the target (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2016/03/captain-americas-kick-work-rocket-powered/amp):

cap_kick.gif


kicking a 2 ton vehicle with enough force to again knock a human several metres:

PDwG.gif




And generally fighting against metal and hydrolically powered opponents of varying strength levels as well as taking hits that should shatter every home in his ribcage:

hEC29827B

5212564-oomq9yp+-+imgur.gif
giphy.gif

OwQK.gif

giphy.gif

WhichFlakyAltiplanochinchillamouse-max-1mb.gif


And that's all without getting Into his absurd throwing skills and strength:

52b.gif




He is well beyond peak human. No human could ever match that. For comparison, this is how a real life peak human soldier throws:

giphy.gif
 

onyx

Member
Dec 25, 2017
2,531
I don't even know how anyone could debate this. Cap is Superhuman in MCU. They gave him drugs that gave him power. He is close to Black Panther level.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Peak human in comics logic anything else undermines the character and is the answer of those that don't understand him.

He could very well be superhuman in the sense of being all around peak human.

Running at over 60mph (calculation here: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/que...-bucky-tchalla-and-steve-running-in-civil-war):

NNDk.gif


Repeatedly surviving above fatal fall distances:

captain-america-skydiving-in-water.gif


Curling a Helicopter capable of 3000lbs of thrust:

giphy-2gif.gif



Throwing a 500lb-ish bike mid saumersault:

4496546-j1sxr.gif


Half-heartedly kicking fully grown human being in likely heavy armor several metres through the air from a standstill:

4981644-0850172999-x5U5b.gif

4782579-strength+9.gif


The same but doing so jumping several metres into the air and with enough force to avoid bouncing backwards off the target (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/2016/03/captain-americas-kick-work-rocket-powered/amp):

cap_kick.gif


kicking a 2 ton vehicle with enough force to again knock a human several metres:

PDwG.gif




And generally fighting against metal and hydrolically powered opponents of varying strength levels as well as taking hits that should shatter every home in his ribcage:

hEC29827B

5212564-oomq9yp+-+imgur.gif
giphy.gif

OwQK.gif

giphy.gif

WhichFlakyAltiplanochinchillamouse-max-1mb.gif


And that's all without getting Into his absurd throwing skills and strength:

52b.gif




He is well beyond peak human. No human could ever match that. For comparison, this is how a real life peak human soldier throws:

giphy.gif

Nothing in those gifs are superhuman
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,249
That wouldn"t be good at all.

He needs to be superhuman to battle who he does in the MCU.

Comic "peak human" is utter nonsense, too. It regularly flits between what it says and superhuman depending on context. It was never a good way to phrase it and never made any sense.
I mean it makes context in universe considering over all power scope in the comic universe. Spiderman is barely considered more than street level and he can punch the jaw off guys who can shrug off bullets
 

Shroki

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,911
Nothing in those gifs are superhuman

Among those gifs: running faster than Usain Bolt, being able to stop a helicopter from taking off with your upper body strength and throwing a half-ton motorcycle with enough force that it vaporizes the front of a jeep.

Imma say superhuman.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Nothing in those gifs are superhuman

There is no human being in existance that can accomplish even a half of any of the actions in those GIFs.

He is at absolute minimum well over twice the limitations of the human body. You factually cannot reach that level of performance. He is stronger than any developed exo-skeleton for crying out loud.
 

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
8,412
Peak human in comics logic anything else undermines the character and is the answer of those that don't understand him.

He could very well be superhuman in the sense of being all around peak human.



Nothing in those gifs are superhuman
...What?!

That's not superhuman to you?

What human, living or dead, could flip over a motorcycle and throw it with enough force to total a Jeep? That is not a rhetorical question.
 

Buttzerker

Powerhouse Protector / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,017
Cap is not peak human in the comics he is blatantly superhuman. Dude tanks hits that would splatter a normal human and has an almost total immunity to poisons and toxins.

Dude also lifts over a ton on pretty regular occasions. He is not peak human no matter what Marvel says.
 

RavFiveFour

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
1,721
It's about what you're made of. Cap without heart, inspiration and just all super human science lab project backings and he's nothing.
 

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,143
That wouldn"t be good at all.

He needs to be superhuman to battle who he does in the MCU.
Well yeah, he needs to be superhuman to go up against who he does, or they could've watered his power down and I don't agree that wouldn't be good.

in avengers he was able to deal some damage to Loki, but clearly he was no match for him. Iron Man stood up against Thor longer than cap stood up against Loki, yet somehow in cap3, cap seemed to go toe to toe with Iron Man even if he was more occupied with Bucky.

then there's the whole helicopter scene and I thought was ridiculous. most people were probably awestruck but I took it as more of him just being overpowered. it would be refreshing if cap was really strong but not superstrong. he later crushes a radio with his bare hand.

he went toe to toe with ultron for a little while & flipped a motorcycle over his head in av2, pushed a car by kicking a man towards it but was subdued by spiderman's webbing. which at the very least suggests that he's at the lowest stage of superhuman that can be established in the MCU. when bucky tried to punch spiderman with his metal arm he couldn't, and that same metal arm gave cap a hard time in their first hand combat in cap2.

cap being able to stop thanos with his 2 hands I think was more of a symbolic scene rather than a show of his real strength, kinda like how he made Mjölnir creak when trying to lift in av2.

Comic "peak human" is utter nonsense, too. It regularly flits between what it says and superhuman depending on context. It was never a good way to phrase it and never made any sense.
I think it does make sense, but they've had cap do superhuman things so many times that for him in particular it doesn't make sense. batman is supposed to be peak human; and he is the like the superhero with no superpowers. as someone else has said in the thread, kingpin too is supposed to have peak human strength so only for cap did they kind of blur the lines.
 

Firaga

Member
Oct 29, 2017
736
I don't think the vibranium is helping his legs. lol

tumblr_pc64ceiFwt1sc0ffqo3_500.gif


Come on, brehs, that's superhuman as f*ck. There's also another falling scene on the helicarrier where cap just jumps down like 20 stories and just rolls into a sprint. No human peak or otherwise would survive that unscathed.
Vibranium socks.
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,466
Peak human in comics logic anything else undermines the character and is the answer of those that don't understand him.

He could very well be superhuman in the sense of being all around peak human.



Nothing in those gifs are superhuman

The kicking the truck gif alone is super human.

A Ford Ranger is over 3000 pounds. He kicked the front end enough to move it a few feet and then transfer enough power to knock someone through the air.

Peak human would have trouble launching a person that far alone without the truck.