Is flirting with a 19 year old at 28 creepy?

[spootime]

There's no easy answer to this. 18 as the "green light" year is incredibly arbitrary. There's no reason that 17, 19, 21, wouldn't be socially accepted if they had been established 50 years ago.

As a 28 year old, I won't date anyone younger than 23-24. The gap in life experience is so great that it's hard to justify the age difference -- which is the same as a 12 yo (or younger) vs an 18 yo.

It just comes down to the difference in maturity. a 42 yo vs a 48 yo is imperceptible (probably). A 12yo vs an 18yo is repulsive. A 22yo vs a 28 yo is generally socially acceptable but also leaning a bit into the "weird" category.

If you're trying to establish an emotional relationship with a 19yo as a 28yo ... yeah, I do think that is weird and concerning.

 

[Chitown B]

That doesn't make it okay.

Until very recently, society turned a blind eye to grooming and predation.

Click to shrink...

Grooming seems to be a new buzzword for dating someone younger than you.

I just gave two opposite gender scenarios. Neither was grooming. Admittedly, these are anecdotes - but so is everything.

At 18 you can vote, and go to war. You can fuck whomever you want.

 

[Lost Lemurian]

I think I may be turned around... I can't tell where you're coming from. I edited my post.

Click to shrink...

For context, my gf and I met when I was 26 and she was 35. We've been together 7 years, and are now 33 and 42.

These threads frequently make me uncomfortable, because the pervasive feeling is always "Ew, age gaps are gross and creepy. What would you even talk about with someone that much older/younger?? Gross". Now, maybe that's just me being sensitive, but it is what it is.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the situation in the OP (there always could be, I'm not denying that), but I don't think a difference in life experience definitively precludes two people from dating as long as they are both of legal age.

Now, in terms of brain development, I understand the argument that people between 18 and 21 still have developing brains. I don't think that literally makes them equivalent to children and thus unable to consent to a relationship with someone older. If other posters believe that a 19-year-old and a 28-year-old are so cognitively mismatched that it can be likened to pedophilia, then I'll respect their criticism of the OP in that context.

You said "If you're daughter is going to prom, she's 18 (or 17, like I was when I attended senior prom). If her date is 21, then he was 18 when she was 15. When she was a freshman, he would've been a senior. They wouldn't have any shared teenage experiences, they'd only have been concurrently in highschool for one year."

That was me asking how you could assume she was 15 and he was 18 when they started dating.

You also have issues reading what I wrote. I said my daughter will be 13 when she finished 7th grade and said right now she's in 7th grade. Hell, I even said it twice.

It's September. School finishes in June. I said specifically that her birthday is in June. That means she is 12 right now. It's also how I assume you don't have kids.

But if you read my posts in this thread (which you clearly do not) you would know that I already mentioned that she is 12. In fact it was said not that many pages ago, after we started our conversation.

Edit - In the spirit of fairness it was stated prior to our conversation, but my point still stands regarding school year, age and end of school year and her listed birth month.

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Fine, if your daughter is 12 now, a 21-year-old taking her to prom would be 15 right now. So, even if they didn't start dating until she was 18, you're saying they know each other in some context beforehand, and you know him too, right?

 

[MrNelson]

Because I feel like a 19 year old should have the right to make the decision for themselves and not be judged for it? I get it, we disagree.

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I mean, as someone that interacts with a few people in the late teens/early twenties age range semi-regularly, I'm inclined to disagree.

 

[carlystan]

People keep throwing out thing like "well if you're 18-24 your brain isn't fully developed". But i feel like they are just reaching around what they really mean. In that if you are 18-24 you aren't capable of making your own decisions as a woman in regards to who you date. And what else does that apply to? Can a 21 year old woman (or man but lets be honest its women that people are applying these restrictions of agency to) vote, do drugs, get married, have an abortion? Or is it just in regards to who they date you think they have no agency over?

Because it seems to me like if you believe an adult woman of 18-24 can make decisions for herself, you wouldn't give two shits about who it is she chooses to date. Right?

Also, why are women supposed to give two fucks about what (mostly men) think?

Sorry if this seems hostile but I really expected better from a place like era.

Click to shrink...

congrats on managing to mansplain women's agency. a 19 year old can have agency, but it doesn't change that she isn't fully developed and is more likely to be taken advantage of. this isn't that difficult to understand.

 

[nonoriri]

I actually mostly agree with you. I think that it's more likely that two adults of the same age will have more in common and perhaps even match better. But what about the times it doesn't work that way? People come from all sorts of walks of life. All sorts of different experiences. It just seems to be that if you're saying, well, there can be a powerplay involved, and absolutely there could be, It also seems to me that you're arguing that women need to be protected until they are, say 25, because they aren't capable of making the absolute best decisions for themselves.

I just don't think we can have it both ways. Either we are saying, it's wrong and these women are in danger and perhaps there should be a law against it to protect them, or we're saying, well it might not be ideal but, they are capable of making that decision for themselves.

Click to shrink...

I'm not really arguing women need to be protected. I never specified the gender of the people I met. I exist in very queer spaces and gender is not so easily defined. I'm saying people who are older should have an awareness that their experiences in life do matter and gives them information that younger people do not have that divide in experience is expressly stark when the younger party is barely out of high school. It's absolutely silly to pretend that they are on the same level. I was once young and dated a woman older than me (not even 10 years but she was a senior in college and I was a senior in high school) and while we liked the same things, our ability to understand ourselves in relation to the rest of the world were in completely different spots. I was young and I thought she was really cool but at the end of the day, we really didn't experience the world in the same way. That's why I would be highly weirded out if one of my friends wanted to date someone who was 19, because what they are concerned with now is so different from what we were all concerned with at 19.

I would think sharing interests would be most important. That you have 401k and a house doesn't say anything about you really and it doesn't really set you apart from anyone else. Those kinds of things might be important to you but even in my late 30s hearing adults talk about their investments and regular trips to Home Depot isn't all that interesting and I'd rather be hanging out with the people who go to anime conventions. "In common" to me, means you share similar interests. It's not about where you are in life. You can find someone 40 that's never owned a house and probably has no investments, but it might turn out that you two click and it has nothing to do with that stuff.

Click to shrink...

Not necessarily. I've had relationships where I didn't share as many interests work better than ones where we shared a lot. It worked because we had similar emotional goals and interests. We just respected each other's nerd interests even if we didn't share them. Having the same interests can be rendered meaningless if you don't have the same goals about how you want to proceed in life or how you process your emotions.

So yeah, those other interests do set me apart from someone who is concerned about passing their college classes. Not in a derisive way but because I've already been there and done that. That chapter in my life is completely closed and has been for a long time. Even if someone my age has never owned a house, they are more like to have an awareness of the concerns that come with that, or with having a full time job because there is more opportunities to be exposed to those things then when you are younger.

 

[rjinaz]

congrats on managing to mansplain women's agency. a 19 year old can have agency, but it doesn't change that she isn't fully developed and is more likely to be taken advantage of. this isn't that difficult to understand.

Click to shrink...

And yet, it's still her decision to make, and one she's entitled to make. I mean sure, I'm a man, having an opinion here. I'm not trying to mansplain anything.

I have already recognized that it is not ideal for a 30 year old to want to date 19 years olds exclusively and that it can lead to even predatory actions. But, I also recongize that it's really not quite as simple as that either.

 

[thesoapster]

What's a life stage?

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Hah! That's a good question. It's definitely dependent on culture. In much of America, I'd say there are major stages and some sub-stages. Graduating school at various levels, getting jobs, careers, becoming truly independent, having meaningful relationships, maybe starting a family, etc. It's not necessarily linear.

 

[Merc_]

Do what you want, but I'd feel very put off dating someone that isn't even old enough to drink.

 

[LGHT_TRSN]

And yet, it's still her decision to make, and one she's entitled to make. I mean sure, I'm a man, having an opinion here. I'm not trying to mansplain anything.

I have already recognized that it is not ideal for a 30 year old to want to date 19 years olds exclusively and that it can lead to even predatory actions. But, I also recongize that it's really not quite as simple as that either.

Click to shrink...

So you don't think a 30 year old that exclusively dates teenagers is predatory behavior?

 

[TAJ]

So yeah, those other interests do set me apart from someone who is concerned about passing their college classes. Not in a derisive way but because I've already been there and done that. That chapter in my life is completely closed and has been for a long time. Even if someone my age has never owned a house, they are more like to have an awareness of the concerns that come with that, or with having a full time job because there is more opportunities to be exposed to those things then when you are younger.

Click to shrink...

So if I decided to go back to school and get a degree would that make me less mature than I am now?

 

[rjinaz]

I'm not really arguing women need to be protected. I never specified the gender of the people I met. I exist in very queer spaces and gender is not so easily defined. I'm saying people who are older should have an awareness that their experiences in life do matter and gives them information that younger people do not have that divide in experience is expressly stark when the younger party is barely out of high school. It's absolutely silly to pretend that they are on the same level. I was once young and dated a woman older than me (not even 10 years but she was a senior in college and I was a senior in high school) and while we liked the same things, our ability to understand ourselves in relation to the rest of the world were in completely different spots. I was young and I thought she was really cool but at the end of the day, we really didn't experience the world in the same way. That's why I would be highly weirded out if one of my friends wanted to date someone who was 19, because what they are concerned with now is so different from what we were all concerned with at 19.


Not necessarily. I've had relationships where I didn't share as many interests work better than ones where we shared a lot. It worked because we had similar emotional goals and interests. We just respected each other's nerd interests even if we didn't share them. Having the same interests can be rendered meaningless if you don't have the same goals about how you want to proceed in life or how you process your emotions.

So yeah, those other interests do set me apart from someone who is concerned about passing their college classes. Not in a derisive way but because I've already been there and done that. That chapter in my life is completely closed and has been for a long time. Even if someone my age has never owned a house, they are more like to have an awareness of the concerns that come with that, or with having a full time job because there is more opportunities to be exposed to those things then when you are younger.

Click to shrink...

I don't remeber what exactly I was like at 19, but, I do know that it was a dark and lonely time in my life. If an older woman somehow found herself in my life due to me reaching out to her, maybe via a dating site, I can't say that I would somehow be worse for it than I am now. 19 for one person can mean college raves and for another it can mean another year of taking care of her younger siblings because momma is still getting passed out drunk.

 

[medinaria]

it's kind of weird to see so many people in here fall back on this like "millennials are from mars, zoomers are from venus" stuff

I can't speak to this particular situation, because I don't know the people in question at all, but it's not in any way impossible that two people separated by any number of years might be at a similar place mentally/emotionally/etc and share a similar outlook, or might be completely different but interested anyway. people are unique. they don't fit neatly into our weird boxes that we try to shove them into. ultimately, none of us can judge whether or not these two people "fit together" - only they can. and the only way they can figure that out is by getting to know each other.

if there's mutual interest, and you're both of legal age, reciprocate if you want to. it's fine. the heart wants what it wants.

 

[rjinaz]

So you don't think a 30 year old that exclusively dates teenagers is predatory behavior?

Click to shrink...

It likely is. But I was more referring to a 19 year old dating a 30 year old at all. It doesn't have to mean that the 30 year old is a predator, no.

 

[Weiss]

So you don't think a 30 year old that exclusively dates teenagers is predatory behavior?

Click to shrink...

Yeah like the idea of someone who deliberately and exclusives dates below their age group, that isn't something you can really come up with a positive spin to. That's a scenario where said older person has decided that younger relationships inherently give them something they want they're not getting elsewhere.

 

[LGHT_TRSN]

It likely is. But I was more referring to a 19 year old dating a 30 year old at all. It doesn't have to mean that the 30 year old is a predator, no.

Click to shrink...

Likely is? We should give the 30 year old the benefit of the doubt or what?

 

[TAJ]

Hah! That's a good question. It's definitely dependent on culture. In much of America, I'd say there are major stages and some sub-stages. Graduating school at various levels, getting jobs, careers, becoming truly independent, having meaningful relationships, maybe starting a family, etc. It's not necessarily linear.

Click to shrink...

I don't understand what becoming truly independent means. One of my previous bosses was a successful contractor running big custom mansion jobs for decades and then in 2009 he was living with his mom. And the last time someone I knew started a family they were not even 18 yet.

 

[Euphoria]

Fine, if your daughter is 12 now, a 21-year-old taking her to prom would be 15 right now. So, even if they didn't start dating until she was 18, you're saying they know each other in some context beforehand, and you know him too, right?

Click to shrink...

Yes. My example stated that they would have grown up together and went to school. They would have known each other in the teenage years, or when she was 13-18 and he was 16-21.

12 and 15 I would know his parents as well. It also means they could have known each other much longer than just 13-18 and 16-21. Without making assumptions it could also mean they knew each other at 11 and 8 or 12 and 9. However you went right to 18 and 15 and made claims of statutory rape.

 

[rjinaz]

Likely is? We should give the 30 year old the benefit of the doubt or what?

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure what you want from me here. I'll clarify it for you though. Yes, a person that dates 19 years old exclusively is predatory because there really wouldn't be a reason to only date 19 years olds outside of her/his age.

Now, maybe you can answer this then, should laws be passed that protect younger adults from older adults? Is that something we should now be pushing as a society? Would you suppport a bill that makes it criminal for said 30 year old to date a 19 year old, if it protects them in the end?

 

[Trey]

depends on the context. flirting in and of itself is fine since she's of age, but if your flirting is along the lines of leveraging your age difference, status, financial empowerment, life experience in a manner to manipulate a younger person, then it quickly reaches a place of harm. you should have equity in a relationship.

 

[Siggy-P]

I'm not sure what you want from me here. I'll clarify it for you though. Yes, a person that dates 19 years old exclusively is predatory because there really wouldn't be a reason to only date 19 years olds outside of her age.

Now, maybe you can answer this then, should laws be passed that protect younger adults from older adults? Is that something we should now be pushing as a society? Would you suppport a bill that makes it criminal for said 30 year old to date a 19 year old, if it protect them in the end?

Click to shrink...

Thread is not about laws. Its about creepy or not.

 

[Order]

it's really not a good look for this site that the poll is that close tbh

 

[LGHT_TRSN]

I'm not sure what you want from me here. I'll clarify it for you though. Yes, a person that dates 19 years old exclusively is predatory because there really wouldn't be a reason to only date 19 years olds outside of her/his age.

Now, maybe you can answer this then, should laws be passed that protect younger adults from older adults? Is that something we should now be pushing as a society? Would you suppport a bill that makes it criminal for said 30 year old to date a 19 year old, if it protects them in the end?

Click to shrink...

I just wanted a straight answer to a simple question. Thank you.

In response to your question. I never argued it should be illegal. I've argued it's creepy...which it is.

 

[rjinaz]

Thread is not about laws. Its about creepy or not.

Click to shrink...

I mean yes, but it's kind of an evolving topic with a wide variety of opinons and views. People aren't just saying that's it creepy, are they?

I will say that if a 30 year old is exclusively dating 19 years old its creepy as all hell. I mean we agree. End of discussion I guess.

 

[Lost Lemurian]

Yes. My example stated that they would have grown up together and went to school. They would have known each other in the teenage years, or when she was 13-18 and he was 15-21.

13 and 15 I would know his parents as well.

Click to shrink...

Ok, understood.

So, that leads me to the point I kept making: you said you'd feel differently if it was a 21-year-old that you didn't know taking your daughter to prom. Am I understanding you right? If so, doesn't that mean you're judging these two hypothetical 21-year-old boys by some other criteria besides age? Because you're saying one is acceptable and one isn't, and their ages are the same.

 

[rjinaz]

I just wanted a straight answer to a simple question. Thank you.

In response to your question. I never argued it should be illegal. I've argued it's creepy...which it is.

Click to shrink...

Ok so, you think that these people are getting preyed on, just that nothing should be done about it. Got it.

 

[TAJ]

depends on the context. flirting in and of itself is fine since she's of age, but if your flirting is along the lines of leveraging your age difference, status, financial empowerment, life experience in a manner to manipulate a younger person, then it quickly reaches a place of harm. you should have equity in a relationship.

Click to shrink...

I'm trying to think of any couples in my life who had "equity" and I've got nothing. The closest is a couple who have somewhat similarly paying white collar jobs, except one owns their business and the building that it operates out of. Actually they're a bad example because the one with less property went to college and the other didn't.

 

[MrNelson]

it's really not a good look for this site that the poll is that close tbh

Click to shrink...

I'm more shocked about the number of people openly saying that they've been the older one in similar situations and still see nothing wrong with it.

 

[Saito]

it's really not a good look for this site that the poll is that close tbh

Click to shrink...

These threads always go the same way and it's always embarrassing.

 

[JaseMath]

I didn't vote. Both parities are adults and can make their own decisions about what feels comfortable for them.

 

[rjinaz]

These threads always go the same way and it's always embarrassing.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I didn't vote because I don't think there is a good answer here.

It can be creepy, but it doesn't always have to be.

Anyway, thanks everybody for the engagement. It's given me a lot to think about. I might even change my mind once I've had some time to digest everybody's views.

I'm making my exit.

 

[game-biz]

Sometimes it can seem creepy, sometimes not. Depends on the maturity of both parties and the context.

 

[LGHT_TRSN]

Ok so, you think that these people are getting preyed on, just that nothing should be done about it. Got it.

Click to shrink...

Lmao you really trying to 'win' this argument putting bullshit in my mouth huh.

 

[Trey]

I'm trying to think of any couples in my life who had "equity" and I've got nothing. The closest is a couple who have somewhat similarly paying white collar jobs, except one owns their business and the building that it operates out of. Actually they're a bad example because the one with less property went to college and the other didn't.

Click to shrink...

equity is more than just financial parity, although that is a factor. emotional intelligence, meeting each other's mental and physical needs, availibilty, utility, shared interests, family compatibility, etc.

 

[TAJ]

equity is more than just financial parity, although that is a factor. emotional intelligence, meeting each other's mental and physical needs, availibilty, utility, shared interests, family compatibility, etc.

Click to shrink...

Yes, those other factors do make every couple I've ever known even more skewed.

 

[Deception]

Who am I to police the agency of two consenting adults? At the end of the day it's not really about the age difference, it's about the perceived difference in power/maturity but everyone's lives and experiences are different and the same goes for their wants and needs at any particular age.

 

[Euphoria]

Ok, understood.

So, that leads me to the point I kept making: you said you'd feel differently if it was a 21-year-old that you didn't know taking your daughter to prom. Am I understanding you right? If so, doesn't that mean you're judging these two hypothetical 21-year-old boys by some other criteria besides age? Because you're saying one is acceptable and one isn't, and their ages are the same.

Click to shrink...

I said I would view 21 and 18 differently than 30 and 18.

Its possible you missed the edit, but I said "Now random 21 year old I've never met? Yeah that's a different discussion. However there is even a big difference between 21 and 30. I view 21 and 18 differently then I would view 18 and 30."

Don't know if ERA shows when that edit was made, but I can assure you it was made long before this response of yours. It also goes to show why I acknowledged that I would lean towards your latter premise in the initial post about maturity of those aged 18-21 shaping my opinion.

 

[nonoriri]

So if I decided to go back to school and get a degree would that make me less mature than I am now?

Click to shrink...

Come on, don't be obtuse. There's a huge difference what it's like going to school when it's the first thing you do out of high school at 18 and going back later after you've done other things. I have friends in that situation who literally complain about the 19 year olds in their classes acting immature. The more you go through life, the more exposure to the "adult world" you have.

I don't remeber what exactly I was like at 19, but, I do know that it was a dark and lonely time in my life. If an older woman somehow found herself in my life due to me reaching out to her, maybe via a dating site, I can't say that I would somehow be worse for it than I am now. 19 for one person can mean college raves and for another it can mean another year of taking care of her younger siblings because momma is still getting passed out drunk.

Click to shrink...

Sure, there's always exceptions, but we're talking in general here. I experienced things that made me grow up faster (mom with cancer in HS) but in a lot of ways I was still immature because I just didn't have the benefit of time to understand certain experiences with a mind that had experienced more things. Not every relationship with a huge age gap is toxic but there's a lot of factors that can really prime it for being so. Especially, as mentioned, in the queer community where there's a very strong feeling of "this has to work out" because of the feeling that the dating pool is very limited.

 

[Dodongo]

Grooming seems to be a new buzzword for dating someone younger than you.

I just gave two opposite gender scenarios. Neither was grooming. Admittedly, these are anecdotes - but so is everything.

At 18 you can vote, and go to war. You can fuck whomever you want.

Click to shrink...

It kinda sounds like this is more about who you want to fuck.

Grooming is not a new concept at all. Several people have pointed out there is a significant power imbalance between teenagers and adults. Why is that aspect something you can handwave away as unimportant?

Regarding "my grandparents had a huge age gap, and they turned out okay", that is never a good argument. Think about the kind of stuff that was socially acceptable back then that we now recognize as not okay.

 

[thesoapster]

I don't understand what becoming truly independent means. One of my previous bosses was a successful contractor running big custom mansion jobs for decades and then in 2009 he was living with his mom. And the last time someone I knew started a family they were not even 18 yet.

Click to shrink...

I mean shit happens and circumstances change. But that initial step of achieving financial independence is huge for someone's mindset.

 

[Yasuke]

Absolutely. And to the point of the thread, I don't feel that adults in their 30s should be seeking out women that are 19. But I also don't feel like it's necessarily some kind of almost evil thing that some people are presenting it as.

In this dating age, it's not entirely impossible to meet a woman online that is 19 for example. She may even lie about her age. But let's say I decide to date her because we have so much in common. Weeks later she confesses she's 19, am I then a bad person or even a predator for continuing said relationship?

Click to shrink...

I mean, yes?

 

[darz1]

This thread is long and I'm pretty sure anything I could add has already been said so I'll keep it brief.

Your both adults. You can do what you want

No one is ever "mature for their age". That's just a way to make yourself feel better about the age difference.

 

[TAJ]

I mean shit happens and circumstances change. But that initial step of achieving financial independence is huge for someone's mindset.

Click to shrink...

Whatever that feeling is I never had it after I moved out. I've always thought that everything could go to hell at any time.

 

[Gyro Zeppeli]

The pearl clutching in this thread is kind of sad. Mind your own business. If they want to pursue a serious relationship and are both mature enough to go ahead with the age gap, then who cares?

 

[Lost Lemurian]

I said I would view 21 and 18 differently than 30 and 18.

Its possible you missed the edit, but I said "Now random 21 year old I've never met? Yeah that's a different discussion. However there is even a big difference between 21 and 30. I view 21 and 18 differently then I would view 18 and 30."

Don't know if ERA shows when that edit was made, but I can assure you it was made long before this response of yours.

Click to shrink...

Understood, apologies if I missed something, but that doesn't answer the question: why is a 21-year-old you know acceptable and a strange 21-year-old not acceptable?

 

[brawndolicious]

And I think that's completely fair nuance to bring in, I'm mostly directing my side-eye to the pearl clutchers trying to make it personal rather than the people just answering "yes" to the poll. OP did explicitly ask if it was "creepy" so I know some are just answering the question.

Click to shrink...

That makes sense, yeah I get where you're coming from. I think the OP probably was hoping for a frank, serious discussion about if such a relationship would be a good idea but uh.....we got some weird shit about consent and what counts as a teenager.

 

[Euphoria]

Understood, apologies if I missed something, but that doesn't answer the question: why is a 21-year-old you know acceptable and a strange 21-year-old not acceptable?

Click to shrink...

Didn't say it wouldn't be acceptable. I said it would viewed differently than if she grew up with him and that it would be different than 18 and 30.

 

[klastical]

Flirting is fine, sex is fine, trying to have a serious relationship with her…,, ehhhhh, pretty shit idea.

 

[Cow]

I am still blown away at this. Do so many people here really not see an issue with somebody in their mid to late 20s+ dating 18/19 year olds? 18 year olds almost certainly have friends who are a year or 2 younger. You now have a situation where you are 28 and your partner's friend is a 16 year old child. Come on, fam. Control yourself.

 

[Parcas]

Unless there is a power dynamic involved it is totally fine.