Is flirting with a 19 year old at 28 creepy?

[BFIB]

I think it depends on the situation. If it's an immature 19 and you're a relatively mature 28, then yeah, it can be.

This past weekend I had a work HH and I was approached by a woman at the outside bar we were all hanging out at, she was 22 and I'm 41. So....yeah..I felt creepy, even though nothing would have ever happened since I'm married.

 

[shintoki]

We're at a point now that we, as the LGBT community, need to start questioning and breaking the unhealthy habits born out of desperation in our past. Or at least discuss it openly. Most of us don't need to hide in the same way we used to, and with the internet it's easier than ever to find other people your age going through the same struggles as you. So why, as an adult LGBT individual, would you be cool with flirting or generally pursuing relationships with teenagers? Be a mentor or friend instead, without the romantic aspect.

I'm really tired but I hope my point is getting across here lol

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It is, we're both on the same page where aspects of what previously made the community need to be reevaluated as we go forward. Pardon about it.

 

[Ruisu]

Perhaps in USA it is

Here in Brazil its quite common for young girls to date older guys and it seen as perfectly normal (Im 38 this month and my gf is 23)

Plenty of 16's / 17's girls dating 2x guys also (if not more)

You have the opposite also, but its not so common

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Right, it's gotta be some cultural difference. People can find age gaps controversial over here, but I've never heard of this ridiculous "anyone below 23-24 is a child to me" crap before I started browsing places like Era and other north-america centered social media.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

19 year olds don't have a fully developed frontal lobe, you're not making decisions on equal terms, especially not emotionally charged decisions. Yes, it's pretty creepy and exploitative, even though it's legal.
Literally your brain is physically capable of making better decisions about your life.

That is why anyone below 23-24 is a child.

 

[Mansa Mufasa]

My first question is, why do women your own age not attract you?

 

[WhateverItTakes]

What the hell happened that the thread went to 1300+ replies with no threadmarks ?!?

I voted creepy a while ago because on principal, yeah, that gap and that young age is weird if you think about it too long. But a 19 year old still has agency and you'd both do what you want anyway so what should you care, but I'll be side eyeing the whole thing.

 

[JuicyPlayer]

If she's underaged , no way.
If she's legal , do the deal.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

I really think that some people in here are leaning into cultural norms of what "adult" and "child" mean - largely related to allowed responsibilities - so when they see someone use the terms in context of human development - a different measurement entirely - there is this assumption that there's an implied "a 23-year-old should be treated the same as a 14-year-old" because folks aren't putting effort into understanding the difference

If that's the case... good lord

 

[apocat]

do the deal.

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"do the deal"?

 

[Hasseigaku]

"do the deal"?

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At least they didn't say "play ball" like another person

 

[Dealer A]

I'm not so sure if people can use the argument "Well, she is legal, so it's OK".

The poll question is "Is it creepy?" If the age differences were 78 and 19, is that also not creepy because it's legal?

 

[Yeeeeeeeeeer]

rule of thumb is half your age plus 7... u dont pass... sorry

 

[Vector]

I know people in their 30s and 40s who are incredibly immature and are routinely manipulated into abusive relationships.

What I'm saying I guess is that it's impossible to have a threshold for this kind of thing, so I would just refer to what the law says. Consenting adults and all that. You don't get to decide arbitrarily at what age one becomes an adult outside the legal definition.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

That is why anyone below 23-24 is a child.

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When you think you've seen it all….
JFC.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

When you think you've seen it all….
JFC.

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Did you even read my post? or just that last part?

 

[Pacote]

I'm from Brazil and 16/17yo dating 18+ is considered abuse by law if denounced by parents or whatever.

Edit: to clarify, having sex is. Dating alone I don't know.

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Nope

Check article 217-A of the Penal code

In brazil the age of consent is 14y and above.

And yes I do mean sex.

Parents have no say on the matter

Right, it's gotta be some cultural difference. People can find age gaps controversial over here, but I've never heard of this ridiculous "anyone below 23-24 is a child to me" crap before I started browsing places like Era and other north-america centered social media.

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For sure is probably something centered around North America, because as I said, at least here in Brazil most people wouldt even bat an eye if a 16y girl is seen dating an older guy.

 

[Dice]

Did you even read my post? or just that last part?

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I doubt people consider how developed their prefrontal cortex is when deciding who to date

OP's situation is weird but hardly unheard of. If they're both happy then awesome, but the skepticism because of the age difference and just generally "making it work" seem to have already been covered a lot (lump me in there with them), but if you guys got something or want to have fun or whatever... Just make sure you're both going in wanting the same thing and treat each other with respect as one would hope you'd do with anyone. 🤷‍♀️

 

[Deleted member 2840]

Nope

Check article 217-A of the Penal code

In brazil the age of consent is 14y and above.

And yes I do mean sex.

Parents have no say on the matter




For sure is probably something centered around North America, because as I said, at least here in Brazil most people wouldt even bat an eye if a 16y girl is seen dating an older guy.

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Eh, I know I'd really revisit my views on my friends if one of them suddenly announced he was dating a 16 year old girl.

 

[Rosebud]

.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

I doubt people consider how developed their prefrontal cortex is when deciding who to date

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no, you're right. But it is a good, scientifically based premise to argue that it's creepy and/or unethical to date a 19 year old when you're almost 30.

 

[Ruisu]

Nope

Check article 217-A of the Penal code

In brazil the age of consent is 14y and above.

And yes I do mean sex.

Parents have no say on the matter

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Wait, where exactly is the age of consent 14? That's not true at all, unless you're talking about teenagers having sex amongst themselves. The article you're mentioning doesn't define the age of consent, it is about criminalizing an adult having sexual relations with someone below 14.

 

[Pacote]

Eh, I know I'd really revisit my views on my friends if one of them suddenly announced he was dating a 16 year old girl.

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Probably not if you was born and lived your whole life in Brazil.

When I was 20y I dated a girl that had just turned 17y and her parents were a-ok

Like I said, it was always pretty common here.

Wait, where exactly is the age of consent 14? That's not true at all, unless you're talking about teenagers having sex amongst themselves. The article you're mentioning doesn't define the age of consent, it is about criminalizing an adult having sexual relations with someone below 14.

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https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idade_de_consentimento#:~:text=de Língua Portuguesa-,Brasil,12.015%2F2009%2C artigo 3º.

 

[Hasseigaku]

I know people in their 30s and 40s who are incredibly immature and are routinely manipulated into abusive relationships.

What I'm saying I guess is that it's impossible to have a threshold for this kind of thing, so I would just refer to what the law says. Consenting adults and all that. You don't get to decide arbitrarily at what age one becomes an adult outside the legal definition.

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I mean, the risk factors that make it easier to be manipulated into abusive relationships can also exist in "technically legal" teenagers.

Which is all the more reason to be really, really careful about encouraging them or being okay with them dating much older people.

 

[psynergyadept]

OP, pursue a relationship that could make you happy.

or

Get the approval of the 43% of Era who might think you're a creep, without knowing anything about you or your life. A forum which has frequent threads with people trying to figure out the proper way to wipe their ass.

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LMAO!!!
But seriously do you OP; You don't need confirmation from us. If you're both truly interested in each other pursue it and see where it goes.

 

[Rosebud]

Nope

Check article 217-A of the Penal code

In brazil the age of consent is 14y and above.

And yes I do mean sex.

Parents have no say on the matter

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They do if they understand it's sexual abuse (and it obviously is, because you know, they are MINORS)

Crazy hill you want to die on, though lol

 

[Deleted member 2840]

Probably not if you was born and lived your whole life in Brazil

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Mate
Read my username
Come the hell on

 

[Pacote]

They do if they understand it's sexual abuse (and it obviously is, because you know, they are MINORS)

Art. 225. Nos crimes definidos nos Capítulos I e II deste Título, procede-se mediante ação penal pública condicionada à representação.
Parágrafo único. Procede-se, entretanto, mediante ação penal pública incondicionada se a vítima é menor de 18 (dezoito) anos ou pessoa vulnerável.

Crazy hill you want to die on, though lol

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You are right indeed, if this abuse and shit

But have you checked all the crazy shit that happen with our law m8?

Consentimento da família afasta tipificação de estupro de vulnerável

O artigo 217-A do Código Penal diz, expressamente, ser estupro de vulnerável a prática de sexo ou ato libidinoso com menor de 14

www.conjur.com.br

Brazil is not for the faint of heart....

But back at the thread... I dont find creepy at all a 28y dating a 19y

 

[Ruisu]

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idade_de_consentimento#:~:text=de Língua Portuguesa-,Brasil,12.015%2F2009%2C artigo 3º.

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This is some some absurd bullshit. So unless you can prove sexual assault by an authority figure, it's apparently legal for adults to date (and have sex with) anyone above 14.

 

[Army of Light]

It is legal but I don't recommend it. If it was the same age difference but a little bit older it would be okay. I also don't recommend it because it is possible for someone, often with special needs, to be in High School until they are 21. Law aside, I don't really think of someone as an adult until they are that age or they finish high school and have some breathing room

 

[Rosebud]

This is some some absurd bullshit. So unless you can prove sexual assault by an authority figure, it's apparently legal for adults to date (and have sex with) anyone above 14.

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That's the problem with the "it's legal" excuse, it shouldn't mean shit.

 

[Ruisu]

That's the problem with the "it's legal" excuse, it shouldn't mean shit.

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We're talking about totally different circumstances here. Brazilian law doesn't see people above 14 and below 18 as adults, but it still technically allows them to be sexually involved with adults unless you can prove sexual assault. That's obviously wrong in any context.
On the other hand my problem with the take people have in this thread is that a "not fully developed adult" = "a literal teenager/child". These aren't equivalent, because I do think people over 18 are adults.

 

[apocat]

Did you even read my post? or just that last part?

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You're not the first to post this. And it's very obvious that a lot of people don't care about the science. From a cultural perspective you're magically an adult the day you turn 18, and no pesky neuroscience will change that.

 

[Pacote]

This is some some absurd bullshit. So unless you can prove sexual assault by an authority figure, it's apparently legal for adults to date (and have sex with) anyone above 14.

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I think is kind of like that all over south america.

Believe it or not for everyone I know, I lost my virginity LATE being 18y at the time.

All my friends/classmates inclusding the girls had lost way before that....

And yes this alone was a motive for me suffering some light bullying

 

[Ruisu]

I think is kind of like that all over south america.

Believe it or not for everyone I know, I lost my virginity LATE being 18y at the time.

Al my friends/classmates inclusding the girls had lost way before that....

And yes this alone was a motive for some light bullying

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I don't really care about how soon teenagers start having sex though, my problem is when that happens with adults. All my classmates were losing their virginity at highschool too, but it becomes a problem if that's happening with like their teachers.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Believe it or not for everyone I know, I lost my virginity LATE being 18y at the time.

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Pretty sure that's common in most places but has little to do with the subject or the person you quoted.
ie. Average age of losing your virginity here (NZ) is 17.

 

[Pacote]

Pretty sure that's common in most places but has little to do with the subject or the person you quoted.
ie. Average age of losing your virginity here (NZ) is 17.

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In my experience (the school I went in Bahia) the girls wanted nothing to do with boys their own age.

They always tried to go for older.

I remember having a crush on this girl and she just said she had no interesting in studid boys.

Less than a month later she was dating this 20+ guy that looked "badass" and shit and appeared at the school to give her a ride on his motorcycle.

 

[Bee.Cups]

What the hell happened that the thread went to 1300+ replies with no threadmarks ?!?

I voted creepy a while ago because on principal, yeah, that gap and that young age is weird if you think about it too long. But a 19 year old still has agency and you'd both do what you want anyway so what should you care, but I'll be side eyeing the whole thing.

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I don't know how to do thread marks so someone else would have to mark it up if they wanted.
I care because I want to do what is ethical.

 

[Thorrgal]

You're not the first to post this. And it's very obvious that a lot of people don't care about the science. From a cultural perspective you're magically an adult the day you turn 18, and no pesky neuroscience will change that.

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Science doesn't say you're not an adult until you're 25, just that the maturation of the prefrontal cortex is fully accomplished at 25.

 

[MazeHaze]

I care because I want to do what is ethical.

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If you have to ask an internet gaming forum if it's ok to date a teenager as a 28 year old, it's probably not ethical.

 

[apocat]

Science doesn't say you're not an adult until you're 25, just that the maturation of the prefrontal cortex is fully accomplished at 25.

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Agreed. But adult is a legal term more than it is a medical one. If we can agree that your brain isn't really wired to make informed choices in complex situations until it's fully developed, that is absolutely relevant when discussing something like the subject of this thread.

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

Again, until the people in here can agree on what the word "adult" means, the word holds no weight in a discussion like this one.

Agreed. But adult is a legal term more than it is a medical one. If we can agree that your brain isn't really wired to make informed choices in complex situations until it's fully developed, that is absolutely relevant when discussing something like the subject of this thread.

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This seems to be the disconnect, yea.

 

[watham]

Yes, imo.

 

[LGHT_TRSN]

We're talking about totally different circumstances here. Brazilian law doesn't see people above 14 and below 18 as adults, but it still technically allows them to be sexually involved with adults unless you can prove sexual assault. That's obviously wrong in any context.
On the other hand my problem with the take people have in this thread is that a "not fully developed adult" = "a literal teenager/child". These aren't equivalent, because I do think people over 18 are adults.

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It's not though? As others have mentioned, cognitive development isn't done at 18.

It's not about viewing anyone as 18-24 as a 'literal child/teenager' (though 18/19 years olds are literally teenagers. It's right there in the number), it's about viewing them as incomplete adults.

Children/teenagers/young adults are not viewed as some monolith. I don't view a 10 year old the same as a 16 year old. I don't view a 16 year old the same as a 18 year old. I don't view an 18 year old the same as a 21 year old. I don't view a 21 year old the same as a 25 year old. We know as you get older your brain continues to develop, and adult responsibilities/rights are granted at different stages (right to drive/vote/drink/etc.)

If it's scientifically proven that brain development doesn't stop at 18, then what reasoning is there to view an 18 year old as a fully developed adult? There isn't. It's no different than saying 'well the legal age of consent is 14 so I don't see a problem.' You're still taking a legal definition and using that to rationalize your position.

So if I know that 18/19 year olds aren't fully developed adults (no matter how 'mature' they are), what reason would I have to be interested in pursuing them romantically if I'm 30 years old? I wouldn't...unless I view that lack of development as a positive, which in my opinion....is pretty creepy.

Human development is not some mystery. My GF has a PhD in this topic. It's been well studied across cultural divides.

 

[Catdaddy]

If you have something in common and get along well - its fine. The age difference isn't that large. Follow what you feel.. Also, ditching someone shouldn't come from the opinions of people on a forum.

 

[Thorrgal]

Agreed. But adult is a legal term more than it is a medical one. If we can agree that your brain isn't really wired to make informed choices in complex situations until it's fully developed, that is absolutely relevant when discussing something like the subject of this thread.

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But can we agree on that? Do humans need the prefrontal cortex to be fully developed to make informed complex situations or can we do it before that? Can some people even do it afterwards?

On a situation like this thread I think it's on a case by case basis, although in general the difference in age will show. But not always, just based on my experience, so it depens on the 2 individuals dating.

 

[808s & Villainy]

Agreed. But adult is a legal term more than it is a medical one. If we can agree that your brain isn't really wired to make informed choices in complex situations until it's fully developed, that is absolutely relevant when discussing something like the subject of this thread.

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That's not really accurate from a scientific standpoint either. You make it sound like until age 25 you're incapable of making informed decisions...

All a fully developed prefrontal cortex means is literally what it sounds like. From a physiological perspective the decision making part of your brain have fully developed. The actual ability to make informed decisions is vastly more complicated and includes vastly more factors

 

[HockeyBird]

No illegal for you to do so. Although I will say, there is likely a significant gap in maturity, behavior, and world experience. I am 9 years older than my sister so seeing her and her friends is like looking back to how I was at her age from a different perspective. She's 23 and she still seems very child like to me. At 23 I thought I was a full grown ass adult but looking at it now, I can see how far from the truth that actually was. Of course the age gap becomes less significant over time but it will be a long while until I view her as an adult on the same experience level as me (and people my age). It probably won't be until she's in her 30s and I'm pushing 40.

 

[JuicyPlayer]

"do the deal"?

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Relationships are a deal right?

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

That's not really accurate from a scientific standpoint either. You make it sound like until age 25 you're incapable of making informed decisions...

All a fully developed prefrontal cortex means is literally what it sounds like. From a physiological perspective the decision making part of your brain have fully developed. The actual ability to make informed decisions is vastly more complicated and includes vastly more factors

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easily a 28 year old is vastly more experienced and able to make rational decisions on appropriate relationships than a 19 year old.

These arguments have no silver bullet.
BUT, it's not that "the rational part of your brain is still developing" is what matters in a vacuum. It's that 19 year olds are not physically as capable of separating emotional decision making from rational decision making. but the 28 year old is.

The argument isn't "what does neuroscience say a child is, and can you date it". The argument is that the 28 year old's faculties for making good decisions is both physically highly developed, and experientially developed in a way a 19 year old's isn't. Sure, that child can be informed, but we're not talking about information, we're talking about emotional vs rational decision making, and is thus highly suspect regardless to what arbitrary age our laws set (which are usually set by a group of older men who historically exploit younger women).

 

[apocat]

Do humans need the prefrontal cortex to be fully developed to make informed complex situations or can we do it before that?

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That's literally one of the functions the prefrontal cortex has. Inhibiting and regulating impulses, heping you judge the consequences of your actions. Of course you can make informed choices before it's completely developed. But you will be a lot better at it when that part of your brain is fully formed.

All a fully developed prefrontal cortex means is literally what it sounds like. From a physiological perspective the decision making part of your brain have fully developed. The actual ability to make informed decisions is vastly more complicated and includes vastly more factors

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True. One of those factors would be experience.