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Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
The terms for God, in the poetic language of the prayers written for centuries, have almost always been male: Father. King. Lord. And in the Episcopal Church, the language of prayer matters. The Book of Common Prayer, the text used in every Episcopal congregation, is cherished as a core element of Episcopal identity.

This week, the church is debating whether to overhaul that prayer book — in large part to make clear that God doesn't have a gender.

"As long as 'men' and 'God' are in the same category, our work toward equity will not just be incomplete. I honestly think it won't matter in some ways," said the Rev. Wil Gafney, a professor of the Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Texas who is on the committee recommending a change to the gendered language in the prayer book.

Switching to gender-neutral language is the most commonly mentioned reason to make the change, but many stakeholders in the church want other revisions. There are advocates for adding language about a Christian's duty to conserve the Earth; for adding a liturgical ceremony to celebrate a transgender person's adoption of a new name; for adding same-sex marriage ceremonies to the liturgy, since the church has been performing such weddings for years; for updating the calendar of saints to include important figures named as saints since 1979.

The competing resolution says that the church should not update the Book of Common Prayer now, and should instead spend the next three years intensively studying the existing book, which has its roots in the first Anglican prayer book, published under the same title in 1549.

"I have no doubt there are many, many, many other priests who are clutching pearls and collars in horror and would never change a word," Gafney said. But she argued that not changing the words of the Book of Common Prayer is harmful. That's the only book found in many Episcopal churches, and the book that a believer is likely to have at home for his or her personal spiritual resource. "As long as a masculine God remains at the top of the pyramid, nothing else we do matters. We construct a theological framework in which we talk about gender equality … then we say that which is most holy in the universe is only and exclusively male. That just undoes some of the key theology that says we are equal in God's sight, we are fully created in God's image."

Other mainline Protestant denominations, including the United Methodist Church and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, have similarly debated the use of gendered language for God; the Reform Jewish movement updated its God language to gender-neutral terms when it replaced its 1975 prayer book with a new edition in 2007.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-prayer/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.19346353dd45
 

Lwyn

Banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Jul 2, 2018
168
God is technically a being, a form of source. So God can appear before you in any shape or form.
 

PaddingtonDidntDoIt

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 8, 2018
698
Jesus was a man, so uhm?
The only way is to change the christian idea of God.
And go the Islamic and Jewish way.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
From what I know of the history of the Judeo-Christian God (read: not much), him being male is a holdover from when he was a male god among many gods male and female back in the iron age. When he became the only God over hundreds of years his gender stayed the same.

But in many ways God has become genderless over time and I'd have no issues with the church treating God as such. Of course I'm not Christian so I have no stake in this fight.
 

AoM

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,325
It's almost like religions are overwhelmingly patriarchal, or something.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
God must have a penis, otherwise how did he done make all that creatin craftsmanship yall. You cannot do that with a penis.
 

Black_Red

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,929
It's almost like religions are overwhelmingly patriarchal, or something.
Only jew_christian, most South american religions had a "mothe figure" god as the most important. Since it represents fertility for humans, animals, etc..

Even the greeks had Gaia.



I had a college course on religions and how do they shape society (by an expert on history of christianity). The profesor got sick, and the replacement was an expert in asían and South american religions. It was really cool
 
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Sazei

Member
Jan 2, 2018
6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Doesn't seem much to debate for christians unless they want to retranslate the entire bible. Jesus refered to god as a father, not anything else. It's admirable that religious people want to get with the times but on this issue it seems a bit black and white unless they want to claim hundreds of quotes from Jesus refering to god as a father was simply wrong.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,359
An imaginary figure can be whoever someone wants them to be if it helps that person be more devoted or more respectful.
 

Buzzman

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,549
Ho boy, I'm not sure they're ready to open this can of worms. Good for them, but I'm expecting some backlash.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,447
Kitchener, ON
2qhU0DTOkE-T54XavXbSUy3DAXk=.gif
 

Big One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
While on the surface this is a good idea, the reality is that a lot of these Christians pushing for gender equality are also Trump supporters, homophobia, transphobic, etc. Basically they're still shitty people. A lot of the feminist groups that are actively around today don't tolerate everything we tolerate.
 

Deepthought_

Banned
May 15, 2018
1,992
If you go by the Bible he looks more favorably on men than women

So if God's a woman then she doesn't like them a lot and hates herself
 
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SegFault

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,939
While on the surface this is a good idea, the reality is that a lot of these Christians pushing for gender equality are also Trump supporters, homophobia, transphobic, etc. Basically they're still shitty people. A lot of the feminist groups that are actively around today don't tolerate everything we tolerate.

Kind off base here. The fact that they are even having a discussion on it and gender and equality means they are like 10 steps above the troglodyte trump supporters.
 

Jackpot

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,827
Christian God describes himself used male pronouns, has spoken with a deep voice, and appeared as a man (or several men at once) in visits to Earth. Also when you look at how everyone treats women in biblical stories it's hard to picture God as being on their side.
 
OP
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Piecake

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
While on the surface this is a good idea, the reality is that a lot of these Christians pushing for gender equality are also Trump supporters, homophobia, transphobic, etc. Basically they're still shitty people. A lot of the feminist groups that are actively around today don't tolerate everything we tolerate.

You should really read the quotes.

Switching to gender-neutral language is the most commonly mentioned reason to make the change, but many stakeholders in the church want other revisions. There are advocates for adding language about a Christian's duty to conserve the Earth; for adding a liturgical ceremony to celebrate a transgender person's adoption of a new name; for adding same-sex marriage ceremonies to the liturgy, since the church has been performing such weddings for years; for updating the calendar of saints to include important figures named as saints since 1979.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
On the one hand I scoff a bit at the silliness of this debate....

....on the other, If removing gender helps the masses to stop anthropomorphizing their deity, I think that's a good thing. I have far less of a problem with people believing in a formless ground of all being than I do in the concept of a celestial space lord who gets cranky and picks sides in human affairs.
 

Big One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
You should really read the quotes.
I never said the person attempting to change this was that way, mind you. I'm just saying most Christians generally have a long way to go until I can actually consider them as tolerant people. A lot of Christian feminists are tolerant for their cause but aren't tolerant for others.
 
OP
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Piecake

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
I never said the person attempting to change this was that way, mind you. I'm just saying most Christians generally have a long way to go until I can actually consider them as tolerant people. A lot of Christian feminists are tolerant for their cause but aren't tolerant for others.

This isn't a person. This is a group of important Episcopalians with real power. Whether they actually make those changes remains to be seen.

Moreover, there is an obvious difference between Episcopalians and Southern Baptists. You simply can't lump all Christians together, and then argue that a denomination of that religion is like every other Christian. In addition, that statement, along with your intolerant Christian feminist statements strike me as gross generalizations that seem to stem from anti-christian and anti-religious feelings.

In case you are wondering, I consider myself an agnostic.
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
While on the surface this is a good idea, the reality is that a lot of these Christians pushing for gender equality are also Trump supporters, homophobia, transphobic, etc. Basically they're still shitty people. A lot of the feminist groups that are actively around today don't tolerate everything we tolerate.

The Episcopal Church (at least in the US) is pretty liberal and has female priests/bishops and officiates same-sex weddings.

They're not the Christians you should be calling shitty people.
 

legend166

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,113
The Episcopal Church will continue its decline into eventual nothingness. The last bishop will turn out the lights of the last cathedral and say "At least Resetera liked us."
 

Bee.Cups

The Fallen
Yes, this is true but God's description is more accurately closer to a shinning ball of light that is genderless.
Well the god in the Bible seems to actually be two gods, El and Yahweh. One of them is a storm god and the other appears as a man and wrestles with people and stuff. If I remember right he actually loses a fight to a human and cheats to make himself win.
Or something.
Both of those gods have been mixed together to become the Christian "God"

If I remember right one of them also mentions being only one of many gods or something but in less clear on that.
 

Murfield

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,425
If there is a a god, what need would it have for gender: as it would be the only member of its species to have ever existed.