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Is it finally time to talk about Dragon Ball FighterZ atrocious female representation?

Fj0823

Fj0823

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This has been somewhat of a topic in the FighterZ community for a while, this game is absolutely disastrous when it comes to it's female fighters and how they are presented.

The game launched with just 2 female characters, Android 18 and Android 21

Android 18 was designed to have her brother Android 17 "Help her" in half of her moveset, despite the fact that Android 18 has had enough solo fights between Dragon Ball Z, The movies and Dragon Ball Super to have a moveset of her own.

But nope, 17 does the job for her.


And this was done even when 17 was being developed for standalone release as DLC.

As you might imagine, 17 does not need 18 for any of his attacks.

The second Character at Launch was Android 21. And while she´s a Solo fighter, she´s an original character and well...
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So yeah, fanservice. The character.
While I'm not against super sexy characters, the fact is that as it's stands right now the lack of female characters make her look pretty bad. Even worse when you consider that she's the only female character that could fight Solo.

Now Season 1 DLC drops and no female characters are included, but we got a third version of Goku and Vegeta!

While waiting for season 2, many fans handwaved complaints about the female characters because season 2 would "Obviously" fix the issue, by adding fan favorite characters like Videl, Pan, Ribrianne Caulifla, Kale or Kefla. The last 4 being pretty prominent in the last season of Dragon Ball Super and beloved characters despite a very Captain Marvel-like reaction against them when they were introduced.

So season 2 drops and we are now confirmed to only have 1 more female character on the roster. Videl....who of course has Gohan fight for her.

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This while season 2 added a FOURTH Goku to the roster and a SECOND Broly

While it's true that it might seem like the recently revealed Janenmba might seem took the spot from a potential Solo female character. After thinking it over I can´t deny that he is an original character that does have merits to his inclusion. And while I love new Broly and to a certain extent Kid Goku, I really can't see how they were prioritized over having more strong female characters given the criticism the game has gotten for this.

What do you guys think?
 
ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

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Well that is worse than I thought but the only "defense" would be that the series itself is very sexist and only has a couple of powerful female characters.
 
_zoipi

_zoipi

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Blame Toriyama por leaving women in the background always. When working on licensed content you're bound to the material you have and a lot of creative control. Be grateful that the OC Villain chaacter is a female.
 
BassForever

BassForever

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Have you... seen Dragon Ball/Z? FighterZ does the best with what it was given... which is basically nothing at all.
 
Toxi

Toxi

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Takahashi said:
Blame Toriyama por leaving women in the background always. When working on licensed content you're bound to the material you have and a lot of creative control. Be grateful that the OC Villain chaacter is a female.
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BassForever said:
Have you... seen Dragon Ball/Z? FighterZ does the best with what it was given... which is basically nothing at all.
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The "It's the fault of the original material" defense falls apart when you have Kefla being left out while other Super characters get in.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

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Toriyama is terrible at women. It's notable that every single female character in the original run of Dragonball/Z either retired from fighting to become a wife and mother (Chi-Chi, Videl, 18) or disappeared from the story entirely (Launch).
 
cyrribrae

cyrribrae

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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Well that is worse than I thought but the only "defense" would be that the series itself is very sexist and only has a couple of powerful female characters.
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But android 18 can do her own stuff in the show. And Videl is super badass. Granted Videl is just a human. But yes.. They could have done much better. Having not kept up with super, would these new characters make compelling additions? Or like would they provide interesting wrinkles in the combat? I'm all for some Non-Goku diversity
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

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"It's Dragonball" doesn't invalidate some of the complaints in the OP. Android 18 has been playable in a ton of Dragonball fighting games right down from Super Butouden without needing 17 as support, for instance. Bulma's also been a prominent part of the series from day one and has never been in a fighting game from what I recall - and before you say something like how she doesn't fight, she's at least shot a gun, which is more than you can say about King Kai, who has been in a fighting game before.
 
Mekanos

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Pan and Kefla should be in but Ribrianna is like, a C-lister in the context of the TOP. Might as well add those wolf brothers.
 
Big One

Big One

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I mean yeah Kefla and the two Saiyan girls are a thing but it's still only 1-2 new viable characters compared to the many male ones.
 
Toxi

Toxi

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cyrribrae said:
But android 18 can do her own stuff in the show. And Videl is super badass. Granted Videl is just a human. But yes.. They could have done much better. Haven't not kept up with super, would these new characters make compelling additions?
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I mean, I wouldn't call the sixty or so Gokus compelling additions.
 
Fularu

Fularu

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Super introduced 5 new female fighters, and very powerful ones at that

There's no excuses
 
Oscarzx n

Oscarzx n

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Well, it's Dragon Ball, they have Android 18, Videl + the new character and that's it. If the game had more female characters they would had to add some really unpopular characters instead of fan favorites. At most they can add Kefla, and maybe GT Pan, and both of them have pretty mixed opinions from fans.
 
BassForever

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Toxi said:
The "It's the fault of the original material" defense falls apart when you have Kefla being left out while other Super characters get in.
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So one female character is your argument? That is the point of blaming the source material, you can name all the good female characters on one hand. I think it makes sense why they've done a slow drip feed of female characters across the main release and the dlc seasons... you'd blow through all of them in 5 seconds.

So yes, thank you for agreeing with me that it's the problem of the source material.
 
Kewlmyc

Kewlmyc

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, it sucks.

I blame most of it on the source material not having enough females that can fight on the roster. The whole game is trying to accurate to the manga/show, panel by panel with each move, so no crazy shit like Bulma with a laser gun.

The 18 situation is unfortunate, but I can see how it came down. Game was probably in development way before the Tournament of Power came into play, so I think 17 being added as the last character of the DLC happened way later into development than you think. Like 18 was originally supposed to represent both of them, then shortly before release, they decided to add 17 due to his major role in ToP. They just couldn't change 18 to be her own character that late in the game. It also gives her a pretty varied play style in a game where a lot of the characters feel the same.

21 is fanservice the character, I agree.

Videl, I'm just happy is in the game. She's barely a fighter, with her biggest moment in the series is her getting brutalized by two faceless goons. She has some things and Saiyanwoman in the movies, so I'm glad they reach out to those as inspiration for the character. It also gives people who like Saiyanman some love without us getting him as a seperate character (thank god).

So yeah, shit sucks and the Goku wanking is taking up a lot of slots (though this is Dragonball, and die hard fans love their 100 variations of Goku). Pray that FighterZ 2 is a thing so we can get Kefla and Ribrianne. Maybe even a revamped 18 (doubt it).
 
Splader

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Feels like this is more so an issue with the series itself, not the game. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Caulifla as a DLC character, assuming more are coming.
 
Big One

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Fularu said:
Super introduced 5 new female fighters, and very powerful ones at that

There's no excuses
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Mind listing them? Like I'm a huge Dragon Ball fan but I honestly have no idea wtf you're talking about.

Ribrianne isn't powerful, though I wouldn't be against adding her either. In fact sicne it it is a 2D fighter I'd love it if they would add Chi-Chi and Bulma as playable fighters too as you could create some really fun movesets with them.
 
Merc_

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L Thammy said:
"It's Dragonball" doesn't invalidate some of the complaints in the OP. Android 18 has been playable in a ton of Dragonball fighting games right down from Super Butouden without needing 17 as support, for instance. Bulma's also been a prominent part of the series from day one and has never been in a fighting game from what I recall - and before you say something like how she doesn't fight, she's at least shot a gun, which is more than you can say about King Kai, who has been in a fighting game before.
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I can't blame them for adding 17 to her moveset in order to try and make her style more interesting. She and Videl both have the problem of barely having any real interesting or unique moves due to limited use in the series.

Bulma flat out isn't a fighter at all and the series have never even tried to present her as such at any point.
 
Cordy

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They're obviously saving Ribrianne, Kefla/U6 saiyans for a sequel. If they were DLC characters then what legit female fighters do you think we'd see in a sequel?

This is Dragon Ball where there's not that many women in the first place. The fact they had to create a female to be the boss says that they're looking for options to throw in the game because they know it's limited.
 
L Thammy

L Thammy

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Can I use this thread to share some stuff that's going on in the fangame front?





 
Strangelove_77

Strangelove_77

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Its a real shame.
Thanks to Super there are some legit female fighters they could have put in this game.
Shit, even before Super I would have taken Mai or even Chi Chi. Even Launch could have been fun.
You got fucking Yamcha in there so its not like power level matters.
 
SENPAIatLARGE

SENPAIatLARGE

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Y'all are acting like Ribrianne or Pan dlc would sell to the FGC/DBZ core base. Kefla makes the most sense out of all of them, but all the other picks are guaranteed to make more money
 
OP
OP
Fj0823

Fj0823

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RE: Ribrianne

Toriyama has a soft spot for her as he designed her. He has her being the most prominent character in Goku's TOP Flashback

And she was a very prominent face in TOP Marketing.

Merc_ said:
I can't blame them for adding 17 to her moveset in order to try and make her style more interesting. She and Videl both have the problem of barely having any real interesting or unique moves due to limited use in the series.

Bulma flat out isn't a fighter at all.
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Other games have had no issues with giving them full movesets and just have the special attacks/Ultimate be combo moves
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
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While I agree with the problem of the source material lacking female fighters, at least they could have added the two saiyan girls, Kefla or even Ribrianne. They have Pan too. Or even Chi-Chi before she married Goku. But they instead continue adding more and more and more Gokus.
 
SolicitorPirate

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I don't buy the argument that DBZ is heavily male weighted, and therefore the game is too.

If this game was made when DBZ and GT were all we had to work with, sure. But in 2019, there are a whole lot of women to work with. Caulifla, Kale and Ribeanna all featured prominently last season and are vastly more powerful and interesting than like the Kame House dopes and other second stringers that feature in FighterZ

Hell, they could go even more left field and pull from stuff like Xenoverse. Supreme Kai of Time or Towa aren't exactly my first choices, but they'd still be cool additions rather than a billion fucking Gokus
 
Big One

Big One

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Fj0823 said:
RE: Ribrianne

Toriyama has a soft spot for her as he designed her. He has her being the most prominent character in Goku's TOP Flashback
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I mean you technically don't really know that it could've been TOEI's decision. Toriyama is usually pretty vague about shit even when he writes the script like he did with Resurrection F.
 
norealmx

norealmx

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Given the intended demography for this kind of game, I think the producers decided it was better to upset a tiny demography for the lack of representation that having over 50% of the user base complaining that the game was ruined by 'SJWs'
 
Neoxon

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Until recently, Dragon Ball didn't exactly have a plethora of women to choose from. Though while we did get Videl this season, the lack of Kefla or Ribrianne is a disappointment.

With that said, it'd be nice if 18 is revised in DBFZ2 to have her ToP moves & ditch 17. As for Videl, while I'd prefer her to be on her own, I understand that she doesn't have a ton of material to pull from (plus we got Great Saiyaman). Basically I'd put Toriyama/Toei/Shieusha at more fault than ASW/Bamco, though the latter duo isn't free of blame.
 

Deleted member 19533

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I think calling Ribrianne a fan favorite is grossly inaccurate.

That being said, there's not a whole lot to pull from given the source material. Especially if you consider that most of the worthwhile female additions came in Super (later in the game's development). Jiren is also a season 2 character, and he's kind of a big deal. So, limited roster slots also played a role.

Videl is now being added, but even so, there's many glaring roster omissions still that should have made it in well before her.

I think it really boils down to the source material and limited spaces. It's not the fault really of the game makers. Though they really need to stop adding more Goku's and bring in more variety in general.

Toxi said:
The "It's the fault of the original material" defense falls apart when you have Kefla being left out while other Super characters get in.
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Not at all. Jiren wasn't in the main roster. JIREN. Hit and Beerus came first and are more important. Kefla happened around or after the game's release as well. She should be coming as DLC. But again, we're now just getting Jiren. Order of importance and limited spaces.

Fj0823 said:
The franchise has really tried to add more interesting female characters lately. All of them ignored for this game

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You do know the ToP arc, the one they were in, finished airing in Japan two months after the game came out, right? Jiren is the only ToP character in the game, he was the most important character in that arc, and he was recent season 2 DLC.

Kale and Caulifla will undoubtedly make it in a future installment. But acting surprised they weren't in FighterZ is eye-roll inducing. If you thought about it at all you would know why they didn't make the cut. They weren't even possibly on the table until season 2 DLC.

Ribrianne may never make it into a game because she's awful, widely hated, and of little importance. There's many more significant characters that would make it in before her. Only in a Xenoverse or Tenkaichi style game would you see someone like her, and I think most people would put farmer with shotgun above her.
 
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Mekanos

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"I can name 3 female characters to add" is not a ringing endorsement that the DB series has tons of female fighters being ignored.

If Goten and kid Trunks aren't individually added, the Kefla girls wouldn't be either.
 
BassForever

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SolicitorPirate said:
I don't buy the argument that DBZ is heavily male weighted, and therefore the game is too.

If this game was made when DBZ and GT were all we had to work with, sure. But in 2019, there are a whole lot of women to work with. Caulifla, Kale and Ribeanna all featured prominently last season and are vastly more powerful and interesting than like the Kame House dopes and other second stringers that feature in FighterZ

Hell, they could go even more left field and pull from stuff like Xenoverse. Supreme Kai of Time or Towa aren't exactly my first choices, but they'd still be cool additions rather than a billion fucking Gokus
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You're ignoring the biggest factor, popularity. Most of the female characters aren't that popular to the masses. More people know who Raditz and Zarbon are then any of the female characters introduced in the tournament of power. And even isolating that arc, you have to pick Jiren before Kefla which is what they did for s2.
 
Merc_

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Fj0823 said:
Other games have had no issues with giving them full movesets and just have the special attacks/Ultimate be combo moves
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They tend to be incredibility lame and limited too and that's assuming they aren't simply a clone of another character (as is often the case with 18).
 
Big One

Big One

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Mekanos said:
"I can name 3 female characters to add" is not a ringing endorsement that the DB series has tons of female fighters being ignored.
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There's at least 5 male fighters to every 1 female fighter that is probably more important to add to the game as well. : / Raditz is a bigger deal than Ribrianne despite his low power level for example.
 
Splader

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Please no pan. Suffering through even a few episodes of GT was enough of her for a lifetime.

Do we know that there will be no more DLC? If there's ever a sequel, I'm fairly certain Caulifla will be in.

As for Bulma being a character, that just doesn't work. She's not a fighter.
 
Kewlmyc

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Fj0823 said:
Other games have had no issues with giving them full movesets and just have the special attacks/Ultimate be combo moves
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Other games don't have every single move (normal, special, and super) be a reference to a panel of the manga or a still from the anime. It's why we don't have Roshi (cause he can't fly) or Satan (doesn't actually have any fighting moves and can't fly). It's also why we have GT Kid Goku and not DB Kid Goku (can't fly).

The staff is super dedicated to their accuracy to the show/manga, so yeah, no made up movesets. No Radditz with his made up moves he never did in the show. Videl was stretching it, hence why she has Saiyanman.
 
Annabel

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Big One said:
There's at least 5 male fighters to every 1 female fighter that is probably more important to add to the game as well. : / Raditz is a bigger deal than Ribrianne despite his low power level for example.
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Raditz was around for like 3 chapters before dying and never being mentioned again.
 
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