Is it possible for Nintendo to release a Switch 2 with the power of the Steam Deck, but the size/power consumption of the Switch for <=$500?
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I have a feeling it's going to be a good bit stronger than steam deck when docked, and slightly less powerful in handheld, if it's weaker than the deck in both cases that will be pretty disappointing esp considering the deck will have released 2 years ago
I don't see it having a SSD though that's for sure
I don't see it having a SSD though that's for sure
Here's some power consumption estimates. (the TFLOPs here are just guesses/ranges, 12 SMs / 1536 CUDA / 8 core CPU are leaked / public info), I think this is based on an Orin power estimation tool so just a ballpark.
View: https://twitter.com/Syferz/status/1572809325017722880?s=20
I don't quite know what you mean by 'gaming power'. The ballpark is >=PS4 I guess, ~PS4 Pro docked with DLSS, better CPU.
Though with recent MS Nintendo COD deal, think it could be possible that it will be as powerful if not almost. I'm hoping for DLSS.
Hate to admit this as a Nintendo fan, but ever since I got the deck I'm pretty much buying all my non nintendo games on there, deck is amazing
The deck is what is for a variety of reasons. It's ultimately a portable PC with all the trappings and requirements that come with that. Switch 2 getting bespoke ports/development rather just being compatible with a PC release is going to go a lot further from a performance perspective.
I think what we know about the t239 is enough to guess that the Switch 2 in docked mode will outperform the deck handily though. Even in keeping the exact same clock speeds as the original Switch. Handheld is a bit up in the air until we know the clock speeds.
I think what we know about the t239 is enough to guess that the Switch 2 in docked mode will outperform the deck handily though. Even in keeping the exact same clock speeds as the original Switch. Handheld is a bit up in the air until we know the clock speeds.
Why is zombie posting that on Twitter instead of here? Does he not post here or famiboards anymore?
In docked form I'd expect it to outperform the Deck, and if DLSS support is in there may be negligible differences in handheld performance as devs will be able to target much lower internal resolutions.
Small correction. The OG Switch is .66 pounds or about 300 grams.
Technical Specs - Nintendo Switch™ - System hardware, console specs - Nintendo - Official Site
Get the detailed specs for the Nintendo Switch™ – OLED Model, the Nintendo Switch, and the Nintendo Switch Lite systems, plus Joy-Con controllers, and more.
www.nintendo.com
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12GB seems like a good, likely option. at the time of development, 8GB wasn't even on the table yet
I want to Believe but i won't be surprised at anything from Nintendo
if you're not surprised, then 16GB would be more likely than 8GB. remember, this is the nintendo that overspends on memory. the only reason they didn't on Switch was because the TX1 was a premade product
As others mentioned, such specs are possible at $500 at mass production, but I don't think Nintendo would attempt to sell a console for $500. The only console they ever released near $500 after adjusting for inflation was the NES. I think it'll be around $349-$399.
Either way, if there's any sense (I know, Nintendo and all that), they'll cut a deal with Nvidia to get some tensor cores in there and have a decent DLSS-based upscaling solution. Something like 720p in handheld with an OLED, with options to scale to 1440p/4k when plugged into the dock. Catering to 720p60 Means they can keep the actual handheld small and light, too.
It won't have the raw power as a Steam Deck at that price as they'll likely keep to whatever ARM solution Nvidia suggests to retain compatibility and keep it perfectly power efficient, but it's like the same situation the Steam Deck is in when you put that up against desktop computers - 'Good enough' goes a long way, especially if you put that hardware in an appealing form factor and it runs the games you've already got.
Either way, if there's any sense (I know, Nintendo and all that), they'll cut a deal with Nvidia to get some tensor cores in there and have a decent DLSS-based upscaling solution. Something like 720p in handheld with an OLED, with options to scale to 1440p/4k when plugged into the dock. Catering to 720p60 Means they can keep the actual handheld small and light, too.
It won't have the raw power as a Steam Deck at that price as they'll likely keep to whatever ARM solution Nvidia suggests to retain compatibility and keep it perfectly power efficient, but it's like the same situation the Steam Deck is in when you put that up against desktop computers - 'Good enough' goes a long way, especially if you put that hardware in an appealing form factor and it runs the games you've already got.
there's already tensor cores and RT cores. it'd be more expensive to remove them
At $500? Yeah easily. Will they? Dunno, we'll need to see about quite a few things before we can really judge.
Switch was 300 at launch they arent going to jump to 500 from that, it will be 400 at most if they increase price
Inflation plus the general cost of consumer electronics in the past few years argues otherwise.
Also how are mobile chips suddenly able to do almost 4 teraflops with low watts (from zombies Twitter post), there's not any mobile chip close to that now besides apple, its going to be that big of a jump in just a few years?
Why can't meta quest 3 have this many Tflops if this is the case, it's supposed to only be around 2 Tflops
I think his numbers are off
If that's possible by the end of this year quest 3 specs would be much higher imo I don't see a quest having 1.8 Tflops for 400$ and then a switch 2 having 3.2 Tflops docked for the same price
If I'm not mistaken steam deck had the fastest mobile chip outside of apple when it released just 1 year ago, so switch 2 will be able to double it's performance just 2 years later?
Why can't meta quest 3 have this many Tflops if this is the case, it's supposed to only be around 2 Tflops
I think his numbers are off
If that's possible by the end of this year quest 3 specs would be much higher imo I don't see a quest having 1.8 Tflops for 400$ and then a switch 2 having 3.2 Tflops docked for the same price
If I'm not mistaken steam deck had the fastest mobile chip outside of apple when it released just 1 year ago, so switch 2 will be able to double it's performance just 2 years later?
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bro, mobile chips progressed hella fast. Apple isn't even the king in mobile gpus anymore, Qualcomm is. the Adreno 760 is around GTX 1050 levels now
why the Quest doesn't have these chips, you have to ask Facebook. the hardware is there, but they're not using it.
and the Steam Deck is more of a laptop chip than a mobile one. and it's not even the best AMD has to offer. Drake beating it in game performance isn't that weird
I can't see it using 16GB probably 12GB tops. However, they might employ LPDDR5x instead of LPDDR5 for considerably larger bandwidth which would help tons for docked mode when trying to push higher resolutions via DLSS upscaling.
Furthermore, nand prices have cratered in the past few months so I can see the next switch having at least 128 - 256GB of nand flash (e.g. anecdote but I literally bought 256GB Samsung micro-sd for my switch oled for 20 euro, nintendo will get such capacity for 5 euro if I had to guess), and the LCD screen is not worth it since low resolution mobile OLED display are very cheap nowadays when bought in volume like nintendo does.
Based on this my prediction for the specs is:
- 8 cores 1.5 - 2Ghz
- 1.4 - 1.6 TFs portable / 4TF in dock mode
- 8 - 12GB LPDDR5x
- 128- 256 GB nand flash
- 7-inch OLED screen
I don't see a mobile chip being around half the power of ps5 just 3 years after it came out, if this is the case companies need to start releasing stand alone VR headsets with these chips
I'm pretty sure the Deck is a loss-leader subsidized by the Steam Store - Which by default rules-out Nintendo even thinking about parity since they're fairly strict about profiting-on-hardware, particularly considering the large "Only buy 1st Party/Exclusives" segment of the audience for their hardware which makes "Subsidize hardware with software royalties" less viable.
I can't wait for the Switch 2. Not because I necessarily have to have one but so we can finally ease up on the damn speculation threads lol
We have a set of feasible specs based on stolen data from Nvidia. Even at its lowest bounds, it's a generational leap over the Switch - which is to be expected more than six years later. At best it's still weaker than the Series S. So I don't see anything particularly unrealistic.
if I remember correctly, that was from using the Orin power tool. it's theoretical, but 1536 isn't that far from the PS5's 2304 cores. that said, I don't expect those numbers at all. my max expectations for docked clocks is 921MHz, or around 3TFLOPs
Series s is also 4TF right?
So what could a 4TF console + DLSS be capable of 1440p with dlls? Upscaled to a 4K signal?
not even the Series S hits native 1440p. but at 4TFLOPs, you can pretty much expect "series s but with better rt, as in actually having RT"
4K with DLSS performance mode, basically 1080p native upscaled to 4K via DLSS which is comparable to 1440p native or maybe even better (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).
Going by console generation cycles, on paper consoles have generally been 6 times stronger than the previous ones in recent generations
If the same is applied to switch 2 on paper it would be around 2.3 Tflops docked and 1.2 Tflops portable
That's my best case expectation
I want to say the two won't be very comparable, because Switch 2 versions of games probably aren't going to be making the processor go at full blast.
I mean, you can install Windows on a Steam Deck and the performance difference between the two OS's is negligible. Hell, Linux often runs a smidge better.
Not a fair comparison to choose the mass without the joycons. It's going to be 400 grams in a practical use comparison.Small correction. The OG Switch is .66 pounds or about 300 grams.
Technical Specs - Nintendo Switch™ - System hardware, console specs - Nintendo - Official Site
Get the detailed specs for the Nintendo Switch™ – OLED Model, the Nintendo Switch, and the Nintendo Switch Lite systems, plus Joy-Con controllers, and more.
There's some uncertainty though as to how much of that is inherent to ARM as an instruction set and how much is Apple just having the best designs, optimizing their OS for a single architecture, and also paying TSMC for a one-node process advantage. It's not obvious that everyone else's ARM chips will be that much better than AMD's x86 designs, esp for something that needs to run 3D games on a GPU constantly.
One obvious example here is Qualcomm ARM chips running Windows, which show very little efficiency benefit as far as I've seen. Certainly nothing like the jump on the Apple side, where you're getting performance and battery life improvements simultaneously at a given power draw. So it's not as simple as "ARM >>> x86".
Uuuummm, "something between PS4 - PS4 Pro" blows the Deck out of the freaking water.
My comparison isn't really "Linux vs Windows" but rather "native ports vs. ports running through compatibility layer". Linux games on Steam OS run better than the Windows version running through Proton, on the same OS. That the performance difference between the OS's is negligible is a testament to how well they customized Arch and how much work they put into Proton, but regardless, Switch 2 games will be native and not have to deal with this.
I don't think we are getting a 4TFLOP machine anyway
that could never be applied to nintendo anyway, so it's not a great measure to use. we don't know how this will be clocked and what the power consumption will be so all this is just guesses and desires. I stick to the Switch clock speeds for that reason.
- lowest possible Switch clock (306MHz) - 940GFLOPs
- high possible handheld clock (480MHz) - 1.4TFLOPs
- docked switch clock (768MHz) - 2.4TFLOPs
- highest possible docked clock (921MHz) - 2.8TFLOPs
Well yeah they are targeting 50M low end (barring Wii U type failure) and 100M+
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