Is it really so wrong to want to be in an “echo chamber” sometimes?

[Starlatine]

Going back to tran rights like someone else just talked about...we are so far away from where we should be on some issues, that some people may need "echo chambers" (I'd much prefer they were called safe spaces since there's a key difference to me). They should not have to exist at all in an ideal world, but we're so far from that right now that they are necessary for some people, and there's nothing wrong with that type of "echo chamber" imo. You get the group/sheep think yes, but that is exactly what is needed in some cases such as that.

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A safe space is not an echo chamber. People are not there to keep hearing the same opinion boucing from others with the exact same mindset, they're there to avoid being persecuted/harassed for some bigoted stupid reason. It's a far more serious issue than "liking games" so its kinda bothersome that both are being used as the same thing.

Where did you get the idea that I think people shouldn't be able to talk about these things and voice their own opinions? Everyone should feel free to do that. All I'm saying is that you can be aware that a game you like is divisive or that there are flaws, but sometimes you just want to enjoy it and not have to see or care about people shitting on the thing(s) you like because you're simply not in the mood.

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Just used your example, not specifically saying you do it. If you're aware something like Fallout 76 is divisive and have a lot of flaws for instance, you should also be aware you cant just drop in a thread where people are discussing it and be upset that someone is going to be negative about it. You either put up with it and post your positives, or you just avoid the thread completely if it really upsets you that much that people dont like what you like.

 

[DrScissorsMD]

If you enjoy being in an echo chamber, then you're afraid of opposition and you know that there are valid criticisms that you refuse to acknowledge.

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Is it not possible to be acknowledging of opposition and criticism, but also want to be able to discuss the topic without negativity? Is it wrong to want to avoid negativity while being conscious of flaws?

 

[Powerofthecloud]

I enjoyed the Echo Chamber. It was a fun strike in Destiny. I farmed for many Imago Loops there.

 

[Mathieran]

If you have a thing you just want to enjoy, like a video game, I'd say it's totally fine.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

No, fuck echo chambers. Pokemon threads are a nightmare because god forbid you criticize the choices made for SwSh by Gamefreak, and get dogpiled for not liking a revealed feature, all while getting called toxic or a troll.

 

[DrScissorsMD]

I enjoyed the Echo Chamber. It was a fun strike in Destiny. I farmed for many Imago Loops there.

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Fuck you got me. Take your fakebringer and go

 

[Loxley]

I wouldn't say it's a question of right or wrong, I would definitely say it can be unhealthy to be in an echo chamber - as it can warp your sense of reality. In that regard, depending on the nature of said echo chamber, they can be borderline dangerous.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Just used your example, not specifically saying you do it. If you're aware something like Fallout 76 is divisive and have a lot of flaws for instance, you should also be aware you cant just drop in a thread where people are discussing it and be upset that someone is going to be negative about it. You either put up with it and post your positives, or you just avoid the thread completely if it really upsets you that much that people dont like what you like.

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Oh, absolutely. I agree that people shouldn't expect to hop into a thread and see nothing but praise, but I can understand the desire to just engage with like-minded people so you can have a conversation about the game without the negativity, if that makes sense. Sometimes you're just not in the mood for it, or you had a bad day and want to have a positive conversation about the game you're currently into.

 

[Why would you do that?]

I think that in general, echo chambers are fine for some simple, unimportant things. For something as inconsequential as a video game, if you like it and just want to enjoy it without negativity, then feel free to hole yourself up with a group of like-minded individuals and not worry about negativity. But it's definitely a good idea to recognize when you're doing this.

I mean, there are occasions where I just want to play a game without having its flaws pointed out to me, especially if I don't notice anything bad beforehand myself. At least for me, hearing about something's flaws will get me to think about them, and then that may hinder my enjoyment of it...

But of course that doesn't mean that people can't and shouldn't criticize the game at all, of course. Nothing will ever advance forward if there's no room for criticism.

 

[tommy7154]

A safe space is not an echo chamber. People are not there to keep hearing the same opinion boucing from others with the exact same mindset, they're there to avoid being persecuted/harassed for some bigoted stupid reason. It's a far more serious issue than "liking games" so its kinda bothersome that both are being used as the same thing.

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I agree and that's why I'm putting "echo chamber" in quotes there. I don't like that term being used for what is better described as a safe space. I do think it will inherently also be an echo chamber of sorts, but in a good way.

 

[Spyware]

I have left a couple of communities because it feels like some people are just there to be negative. Super negative. Like the "I hate this shit get your stuff together dev ffs you're so baaaad" kind of negative. At the same time I think constructive criticism or just talking about things that bother you in a game at times is important so I don't want to be in an absolute echo chamber myself.

And I would definitely not support an unlabeled echo chamber. You're not supposed to think it's a normal discussion place and then be berated for having negative opinions. Labeled ones? Sure, go ahead, I can absolutely see the point.

 

[NHarmonic.]

That's a better question imo. You still have the behavior of an echo chamber in a safe space, but if you're in a safe space you are (hopefully) there by choice. So that's a big difference between them. One is by design and meant for things to be treated nicely. Obviously if we had some safe space Destiny thread, nobody should be going in there and shitting on the game. It would specifically/inherently be free of criticism by design.


The entire point of singling Era out is that even you, yes you (and me) are in these bubbles. It's very easy for most of us here in this bubble to recognize that other (right wing/FOX) bubble and see it very clearly, but it is not as easy to recognize that you yourself are in a separate one.

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My point is that there are bubbles that are worse than others.

Personally, i prefer discussing things here and in off topic because internet communities have become shit. Fb, twitter and yt are fascist pools, everyone just uses slurs and throw insults for the lulz, and it's frankly discouraging.

My comment was about people trying to sell this thing about all bubbles being the same in terms of toxicity, but that's not true at all.

 

[Deleted member 32018]

No, fuck echo chambers. Pokemon threads are a nightmare because god forbid you criticize the choices made for SwSh by Gamefreak, and get dogpiled for not liking a revealed feature, all while getting called toxic or a troll.

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There's a difference between having constructive criticism for a feature you don't like and being negative in every single post. It seems like you have a very love/hate relationship with Pokemon as you don't like what you see but you can't let go either.

 

[WaluigiTime]

So is Era good or bad basically?

 

[NHarmonic.]

There's a difference between having constructive criticism for a feature you don't like and being negative in every single post. It seems like you have a very love/hate relationship with Pokemon as you don't like what you see but you can't let go either.

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Nah man, the whole national dex fiasco was a test for the pokemon fandom, and the amount of free PR and damage control was too much. Criticism in pokemon communities is never well recieved, just look at the meme with IGN's ORAS review.

Pokemon games summon the fiercest echo chambers.

 

[tommy7154]

So is Era good or bad basically?

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Great. Basically. In my own opinion inside this bubble.

 

[Zelda]

It's bad to discourage unique ideas and perspectives. People should be allowed to have different opinions and beliefs, as long as they aren't physically harmful to others.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

There's a difference between having constructive criticism for a feature you don't like and being negative in every single post. It seems like you have a very love/hate relationship with Pokemon as you don't like what you see but you can't let go either.

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No shit, I loved this series since Red and seeing it go down this route is extremely frustrating to watch. People acting like it's for the benefit of the fans and trying to shut down any criticism of it is what pisses me off. If you're happy with the changes, good for you, revel in it. Doesn't mean I'm not going to criticize it if it is something I don't like. If it's something I do like, then I will say so, not that hard to get. There's just been more negatives than positives for me regarding SwSh.

 

[Deleted member 32018]

Nah man, the whole national dex fiasco was a test for the pokemon fandom, and the amount of free PR and damage control was too much. Criticism in pokemon communities is never well recieved, just look at the meme with IGN's ORAS review.

Pokemon games summon the fiercest echo chambers.

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I didn't see much in the way of constructive criticism for the culling of the national dex. All I saw was fans who were full of rage because their 'fav' may not be in the game.

Also people were allowed to voice their anger at the cutting of Pokemon, where was the echo chamber? Just because I and others disagreed with it being such a big issue? That isn't an echo chamber, that's a difference of opinion, quite the opposite in fact. I was also called many names as well as being accused of being a "shill", something you are basically saying in your post as well tbh.

 

[closer]

i dunno if id recommend being in an echo chamber per se, but in general I think it is a great idea to surround yourself with like-minded ppl with similar beliefs. it is a lot of emotional work to do so otherwise and I think in general some ppl are equipped to handle it and some ppl aren't. if you are feeling exhausted that you are constantly inundated with destiny 2 criticism, I don't think it's wrong at all to shield yourself from it.

 

[tommy7154]

On topic of video games again, I basically shit on every game I love at least sometimes, to push it forward. Like tough love. I want to see it succeed (because I like it and want more people to like it as well) and I think sometimes the best way to do that is criticize it so that hopefully whatever issues it has can be fixed.

I'd agree if you just come in saying Xbox sucks or Game X blows...that's not very good criticism and not helping anything. There doesn't need to be any of that anywhere.

 

[Shy]

Yes it's wrong to be in an echo chamber.

 

[Deleted member 32018]

No shit, I loved this series since Red and seeing it go down this route is extremely frustrating to watch. People acting like it's for the benefit of the fans and trying to shut down any criticism of it is what pisses me off. If you're happy with the changes, good for you, revel in it. Doesn't mean I'm not going to criticize it if it is something I don't like. If it's something I do like, then I will say so, not that hard to get. There's just been more negatives than positives for me regarding SwSh.

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I don't think much in the way of constructive criticism was shut down. Mostly it was just the snarky comments about GF and just negative comments. I'm going to try and be as fair here as possible and say that both sides took it too far and both sides shitposted and didn't offer too much in the way of good discourse. Especially when it got heated. I know I took it too far sometimes and I also know that you have done too.

Recently, I have tried my best to either stay out of the Pokemon threads as much as I can or at least try and chill a bit more because it was all getting very toxic and it's honestly not worth it.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I don't think much in the way of constructive criticism was shut down. Mostly it was just the snarky comments about GF and just negative comments. I'm going to try and be as fair here as possible and say that both sides took it too far and both sides shitposted and didn't offer too much in the way of good discourse. Especially when it got heated. I know I took it too far sometimes and I also know that you have done too.

Recently, I have tried my best to either stay out of the Pokemon threads as much as I can or at least try and chill a bit more because it was all getting very toxic and it's honestly not worth it.

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Indeed, all I can do is just criticize as constructively as I can. If I'm still called a troll or whatever, I'm just putting a user on ignore. I'm tired of heated arguments.

 

[circuit]

Most videogames aren't unique. A new game can usually be negatively compared to an older similar game in a respectful way. If someone can't even contribute that much, their opinion --in what is clearly by context a discussion for fans-- is worth the same as a troll's to me

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

What if we love Destiny but also say "wtf Bungo" too?

 

[Banana Aeon]

So is Era good or bad basically?

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It's overreaction heaven and it seems like no one likes anything or has fun, but it's alright.

 

[Rosol]

Echo Chambers are bad. The best thing we can do is encourage honest opinions, regardless of what they are (* with certain exceptions like racism, ect).

I think the problem isn't really positive vs negative, it's more the amount of posters having an agenda or an emotional attachment to the outcome of the discussion (we all probably have this to a degree to be fair). These are the ones that will attack the opinions that stray from the norm rather than just giving their own opinion and letting that be - they tend to post more than they should and try to steer the discussion in a certain way. I think it should be just give your 2 cents and let it be.. don't attack other posters so much, if you think of something new to add to the discussion add it, but don't spend your time trying to correct other posters.

If you want to feed off of hype and fan based discussion label the thread as such - though reddit is often a better place for that.

 

[TylersProphecy]

Social media is being slowly redesigned to be an echo chamber because they understand there is too much negativity & division, because humans are trash, so yeah i think they are good for games too sadly.

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I feel like this is the wrong take away from this information. If there is more negativity and division due to social media effecting society, then how is the answer to try and big brother humanity using the platforms that are destroying us? Why would we not just use less or better yet, completely stop using social media altogether?

 

[Vibed]

I believe people are free to self organize in ways that are affirming to their opinions. Thats why tight friend groups work well with similar people, and forums tend to have a lot of dissent. I don't think in any public space people should be shut out (given its not literal hate speech) because its upsetting another person, the upset person should exit that situation and naturally organize a group thats more amicable.

Even here, just labeling a thread positively is enough to keep naysayers out, so I don't see a huge problem.

 

[品川駅]

the world isn't an echo chamber and wanting to be in one because a webpage makes someone feel protected or having an opinion validated by others that think the same is laughable to me.

kinda like the users who says that only post and debate in this website because the rest of the internet scares them.

I guess life is just hard for some people.

 

[trugs26]

In terms of enjoying a piece of entertainment, I could see this being fine.

 

[CardinalZin]

While generally I think echo chambers should be avoided, as long as you realize you're in one I don't see it as that big of a deal. Also, its just videogames, so I can't really fault you for wanting to talk to likeminded people about games you genuinely enjoy.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

imo it's kinda fine if you enjoy a game and just want to talk about it without seeing the criticism.
but something i've seen a lot recently, is certain fanbase are angry and hostile when the facts are posted and are more than fine with spreading misinformation, and coming at anyone who dares to call out what's clearly wrong and untrue. that kind of echo chamber is not right.

 

[Border]

I think it makes sense for something like Destiny, where discussion topics in the main forum always seem to go down the same stupid dead-end roads ("Why doesn't this have matchmaking for the thing I want to do?!")

I don't mind hearing legitimate and informed criticism of the game, but if it's just endless whining from non-players about how it wasn't what they wanted or generic microtransaction bitching, then I don't care to hear it.

I think the same thing goes for other heavily contentious properties like Star Wars. I would like to be in a Star Wars bubble just so that every discussion didn't end up being a tired rehash of all the pro/con talking points about TFA and The Last Jedi.

 

[Deleted member 49535]

There's no discussion to be had in echo chambers.

 

[Weiss]

For issues more important than video games, absolutely.

For video games?... well, I suppose if you want one. As long as no one's being a jackass I love debating games.

 

[Xenoblade 3]

Having a positive only space is nice. Sometimes people cant stop low effort shit posting.
For example, back on GAF, people couldn't stop posting Lin's face and complaining about character models in Xenoblade X threads. Some people think they are being funny or original when they give the dead horse another beating. The OT was the only thread with actual discussion.
Recently, I imagine Days Gone fans were also in a similar spot lol.

 

[TooBusyLookinGud]

There's no discussion to be had in echo chambers.

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Agreed.

 

[JayCeeJim]

Echo chambers are okay when the matter is a banal one like a videogame.

When it comes to serious issues like politics then no, echo chambers are a bad and undesirable thing.

 

[Neilg]

Echo chamber is a specific phrase to describe something with no long term net gain. Just because within videogames sometimes an echo chamber doesn't result in something inherently bad does not mean than it is then a good thing. Do not normalise the language this is how politics happens in 2019.

 

[Jonathan Lanza]

It depends on what is being echoed really. If what is being echoed is either blatantly wrong or should/can be challenged then I think it becomes an issue when people on instinct dismiss said criticisms.

Basically I don't think the echo chamber itself matters and defining things as echo chambers seems a little vague to be honest. What's important is how you are challenging said chamber and why.

 

[Deleted member 4869]

No. Fuck echo chambers.

 

[Azel]

I like Melody's Echo Chamber if that's what you're asking

 

[JahIthBer]

I feel like this is the wrong take away from this information. If there is more negativity and division due to social media effecting society, then how is the answer to try and big brother humanity using the platforms that are destroying us? Why would we not just use less or better yet, completely stop using social media altogether?

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Well it's not up to me, but Facebook & Twitter have been trying to turn into echo chambers, i don't really agree with it, but as i said, humans gonna human, so an echo chamber can help improve a games community too.

 

[Sunny]

Is it not possible to be acknowledging of opposition and criticism, but also want to be able to discuss the topic without negativity? Is it wrong to want to avoid negativity while being conscious of flaws?

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what do you want us to say?

 

[Hieroph]

He said second post.

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He said every second post.

 

[Glio]

As long as you are aware that you are in one, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Sometimes you don't want to put up with stupid people who are looking for anger or is directly a mustache.

 

[Mik317]

not at all.

nothing is perfect but it really seems like people tend to over focus on the negative and beat a dead horse at times, so the opposite of constant positivity is even more welcome. There is a needed balance basically that we all struggle to maintain. It hurts that talking about the good stuff is often a dead end street in terms of actual discussion tho. "this shit is great" isn't really something to build upon where as "this shit is....shit" at least can have some back and forth. What really poisons the well is the fact that language is often hard to parse over the internet and comes off as "this thing you like is shit and so are you" which leads to confrontations rather than actual discussion.

It is what it is tho. I just wish some would spend a little bit more time discussing cool things they find or think about games they like than constantly running in threads for the 30th time to tell everyone how much they did not like thing...it sucks that there are a lot of times in which things get buried around here because the first page is full of "this thing is ass" or "look at what this random youtuber said".

 

[Javier23]

Echo chambers are inherently sinister. It's how cults, sects and extremisms are born.