DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
They're not investing in it due to the fact that the technology is never going to take off. They're not going to make the same mistake they made with the Kinect. The technology is never going to take off because developers on a grand enough scale are never going to put significant resources behind a peripheral. Why develop for a fraction of an install base when you can just develop for the entirety of the install base. And that fact is going to limit the install base, because if there's not a decent enough flow of quality games - consumers are never going to take the plunge. That's besides the limited appeal of having a bulky headset, or the expensive barrier to entry. As for Microsoft specifically, one of their biggest blunders last generation was splitting first party resources between traditional console games and the Kinect. They're not going to do it again.
VR isn't a peripheral, which immediately breaks your whole argument. Likewise, a peripheral can still grow to be very large anyway. PSVR alone has had better support in 2 years with 3-4 million sales than Kinect had over 7 years with tens of millions of sales.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,440
It's dictated by their fans and PlayStation fans saying that they just want a console that plays games well for the last 5 years. Not experimental undercooked tech like Kinect or current VR hardware even if making good games for them is possible.
 

Riderz1337

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
I don't think VR is worth the investment, so I am glad Microsofts not really persuing it right now as far as Xbox support goes. What little I have experienced of various VR games and headsets, I don't find the technology to be there yet for me to want to play that way over traditional gaming. On top of that, unless I have completely missed something, hasn't Sony abandoned VR? It seems like they put out PSVR and then bailed as far as first party game support(like most of the fields they enter).

I know there have been a few pretty decent third party VR games on PS4, but otherwise hasn't it just been pretty barren?
Their support this year has been incredible, and they've released possibly the best VR game on any platform with Astro Bot.

Next year we have some amazing games coming from then such as Blood and Truth, Dreams VR and Everybody's Golf. Not to mention the third party games also coming out.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
VR is a waste of effort and money. Focus on other stuff instead.
How so? It's fair to say it's too early to jump in, but if they always ignore VR, they are going to always be behind. Not to mention that one can never use VR and still reap all the benefits of VR developing, as plenty of advancements will trickle down to non-VR games.
 

Izzard

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
4,606
they can't do all the tech that's still needed, wireless, on current systems at a good price.

no one can, which is the point. i worry mass adoption won't happen because all these companies will run out of cash releasing iterations that are not there. ms at least found a niche market for their tech that can pay a ton to keep development going

Sony has, except for the wireless part. And they've invested in first party VR games too.

It may not be mass market, but it's selling very well and analysts predict big things for VR in the years to come. Meanwhile, Xbox gamers don't have the option, and that's a damn shame imo.
 

The Living Tribunal

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,208
One guy called him salty, and didn't overreact in the slightest. Unlike you, for that matter.

- Dude calls Ybarra a salty little man over playful banter.

- I am the one over reacting.

tenor.gif
 

Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,804
Some of you read way too much into tweets. There are some compelling titles but I don't think he's lying or trolling by saying there isn't a killer app. We'll get there eventually though.

I also wouldn't be surprised if we saw VR support for scarlet. The OG XBO probably was one of the leading factors for the lack of support this gen. That and how late in the gen it would be introduced.

How is being market leader in both mediocre?

Not that I agree with the poster you're replying to but can we not pretend that sales = quality? There are plenty of mediocre products that sell well.

Just because I happen to follow him and watch his streams sometimes. Mike Ybarra is the same guy who got xbox fanboys upset when he wanted to stream God of War. He mostly plays on PC. He is very open about how he owns all the consoles and is pretty quick to dismiss people that tell him he shouldn't "promote" the competition. I feel like if you read this VR exchange and instantly assume it's about a console war you'll get worked up.

If you look at it as another guy who happens to mostly game on PC his response is pretty normal. I mean even gaming personalities like Jeff Gerstmann were pretty down on the state of VR on PC and has only changed his tune on PSVR after Astrobot, Moss, and Tetris Effect. I own a PSVR and haven't even gotten around to playing those since so many big non vr games came out this year too.

Thank you. Mike, Phil, Shannon, etc. all play on multiple platforms and do not push console wars. Anyone that thinks that's typical doesn't follow what these companies are doing.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,710
Seems like you've taken two completely unrelated statements and tried to find something to argue.

Im not sure how anyone could be left wondering aboutthestate if VR in relation to Xbox, Phil Spencer has been pretty clear about the technical limitations which have made them skiddish on VR. He's been transparent on that end even though it has garnered negative reaction.

Now what Ybarra is talking about is something completely different and you can tell a bunch of failed to actually comprehend what Cliffy B actually asked with people angrily rattling off lists of VR titles, none of which are 'killer apps'. Then you have some people saying his stance is corporate based and taking the fanboy angle, which is hilarious considering just a few days prior he was talking flak for repping PS games.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,894
The Milky Way
He's also acting a bit funny toward PlayStation recently.



Although this was my favourite reply.

I knew this was the real agenda behind your thread, now you've confirmed it.

Ybarra is one person and doesn't represent Microsoft as a whole. He's also very tongue in cheek and he knew full well what he was doing there, he likes the fun. Microsoft has been doing quite a bit with VR on PC and I expect the next Xbox will support third party headsets. There will be plenty of spare horsepower next gen to add VR modes to existing games too, and for more PC ports.

That said, the real question isn't the hardware, as that's easy to support, it's whether they'll invest first party resources in to VR specific games. Inxile and Ninja Theory have VR experience. But I don't see it being a huge focus for them.

As for killer apps, I'm pretty sure RE7 was already that a long time ago.
 
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Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,729
The way I see it Microsoft is waiting for the technology to mature before adding VR support on the Xbox. They are supporting VR on PC with the Mixed Reality Headsets, so they are not completely out of VR. I really hope Phil is aware of Astro Bot, because things will only get better from here.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
VR isn't a peripheral, which immediately breaks your whole argument. Likewise, a peripheral can still grow to be very large anyway. PSVR alone has had better support in 2 years with 3-4 million sales than Kinect had over 7 years with tens of millions of sales.

You need a PS4 to use PSVR and each is sold separately, if it isn't a peripheral what is it then?

When I see Sony put in the same funding to VR like they do with other titles like The Last of Us 2 and God of War it will always be seen as a peripheral.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
28,035
How so? It's fair to say it's too early to jump in, but if they always ignore VR, they are going to always be behind. Not to mention that one can never use VR and still reap all the benefits of VR developing, as plenty of advancements will trickle down to non-VR games.
VR hasn't produced anything worthwhile in gaming to this point. It also completely goes against a social experience since you completely shut yourself off from your surroundings.

Stuff like AR is far more worthwhile since you can actually use it without denying any social contact.

No one has been able to make a killer app for VR and it still is expensive as fuck.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
I mean. I've played VR and I think it's pretty cool, but I still have no desire to own one at the moment.

Tracking really needs to be improved and they need to be wireless. Plus current generation consoles can't quite put out the performance VR needs without taking a hit to performance. Once those things are no longer an issue and it's available at a reasonable price point, I can see the market growing rapidly.

At the current point it's doing alright, but the market is still relatively quite small. I dont think Microsoft has anything to offer VR at the moment, as they need to grow the Xbox brand back to what it once was first, and VR has nothing to offer Microsoft because the market is still fledgling.
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,526
it was very tongue-in-cheek, using google earth
Google Earth in VR is genuinely amazing tho. I almost went out and bought a Rift after flying through 3d-rendered New York, Prague, etc. like superman. It immediately abolished all of my skepticism for VR, and made it evident that this will be the next big thing given time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
43,217
Maybe they just aren't interested in VR? You give 2 fairly biased possibilities for why as if VR is this huge market that MS has failed to capitalize on. It very much isn't and very much is still in its infancy
 

afrodubs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,193
XBox don't need to be in this fight. It would be nice, but tbh they have bigger things to worry about.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
Being worthwhile financially is an important factor for Microsoft to consider, but I think he was speaking of being worthwhile from a consumer point of view.

Meaning, he doesn't believe there is a killer app out there yet that will make most people feel like they've got their money's worth out of their $300-$700 VR setup.
 

Tickling

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
961
I dug the be out for Christmas and got beat saber and astro bot. Played a bit with beat saber and while it is cool for me it's not worth the effort setting it up. Wireless and better resolution are required
 

Yurinka

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,457
Maybe both XBO and VR userbase are too small for them to justify it. PSVR maybe decent but maybe not big enough to get their attention.

I assume they'll prefer to wait until VR gets bigger and then in next gen with a more powerful hardware they may support VR with less effort through a 3rd party. After Kinect I think they won't like to make a big investment on first party expensive accesories, I'm pretty sure they'll prefer 3rd party one.

In the past Oculus was cool for them, but now like VIVE or PSVR it's owned by a direct competition so maybe they'll wait to see if some other 3rd party makes a cool VR heardset.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
They can save money by just supporting Vive and Occulus.

They don't need their own VR Headset, not making one is not going to hurt them with sales.
 

Tappin Brews

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,039
this is my big question mark over next gen. if MS isnt talking VR for their next console i think i'll bail for PC.
 

Unkindled

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,247
It's the same attitude they have for portable handheld market, they don't see it as platform with high amount of userbase, also their lack of resources to support more than one platform.
 

Deleted member 50969

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2018
892
No, this is a good thing for MS. They will have the high ground to bargain and wrangle for exclusivity better.
 

Popetita

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,957
TX|PR
They are a business first so I could see why they neglect to mention the other games.

I sincerely doubt Mike isn't aware of Astro Bot and other games before making this statement.....right?
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
VR hasn't produced anything worthwhile in gaming to this point. It also completely goes against a social experience since you completely shut yourself off from your surroundings.

Stuff like AR is far more worthwhile since you can actually use it without denying any social contact.

No one has been able to make a killer app for VR and it still is expensive as fuck.
Okay, no. That is just plain false. VR can isolating, but only if you want it to be. Otherwise, you can play party games or asymmetrical games with people on your couch. Beat Saber in particular has probably been the main source of life at many thousands of parties worldwide. Not to mention that VR multiplayer is far more social than any other form of multiplayer gaming. So basically, if you allow it to be, VR is the most socially connecting technology on the planet.

AR has it's own use cases. It isn't a replacement at all. Not to mention that VR headsets will do AR better than AR headsets do AR in the near future, and eventually they will full-on merge into one device.

Also, it hasn't produced anything worthwhile in gaming? Is that why some of 2017/2018's highest rated games are VR exclusives, and many genres are outright better or improved in VR?
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
What VR headset can you use without additional hardware?
Oculus Go, Lenovo Mirage Solo, Vive Focus, Pico Neo, and the upcoming Oculus Quest which will be the first all-in-one VR headset to be basically identical to a high-end VR setup aside from less processing power.

VR's biggest future is in standalone headsets. High-end can still be at a console level of sales, but standalone headsets is how VR starts it's path to smartphone levels of success.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
VR hasn't produced anything worthwhile in gaming to this point. It also completely goes against a social experience since you completely shut yourself off from your surroundings.

Stuff like AR is far more worthwhile since you can actually use it without denying any social contact.

No one has been able to make a killer app for VR and it still is expensive as fuck.

just lol...not every game needs to be a "social experience" if someone wants the escapism and high immersion factor, VR is the way to go, it is literally made for "shutting yourself off from your surroundings".

besides that, there is even a "social screen" on PSVR where the other people in the room see what you see and believe me, i had sessions with much laughter and fun with a group of people and PSVR.
 
Nov 30, 2017
1,563
Despite all the saltiness already in here VR just recently came down in price on PS. It was and is an expensive extra piece of hardware to buy.

The price for PC is still way up there, especially if you need the PC. The price for PSVR is a PS4 and the equipment which is minimum $250 right now. So it's a chunk of money.

Another poster on the first page had an great point. MS has a lot of other problems to fix first before VR. First party games being one.

So were getting a lot of dismissive "its niche" "who wants VR" kind of comments 1. Because they haven't tried it and 2. Because it isnt offered to them. But lol at the their solution is coming and will be superior.

MS owns a VR experienced studio. With their intimate pockets and resources it would be nice to see them help grow this segment of the market.
 

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
It's new tech and 1 of their 2 primary revenue drivers, their OS already handles several VR devices (the second being Office for those curious). If anything, they are going to use the third party sets like Vive and Oculus as part of Xbox, once the sets are more successful. PSVR is probably the only truly successful headset that is more than a phone holder right now, and they'd have to make something to compete with it unless FB sells them Oculus.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,016
United Kingdom
I never get the whole "no Killer App" thing, as nobody should buy a system just for one game anyway but when we have plenty of VR games like RE7, Skyrim VR, WipEout, AstroBot, Firewall, Rez Infinite, Tetris Effect and Beat Saber (to name a few) and Astrobot being a 90% rated game on Metacritic, it shows VR gaming is already improving and delivering quality experiences, there's a lot of great reasons to get into VR now.

Hopefully Microsoft change their mind eventually, as it's never a bad thing to have the option, I'm very happy Sony gave us PS4 owners the choice this gen.
 

DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201
I don't think VR is worth the investment, so I am glad Microsofts not really persuing it right now as far as Xbox support goes. What little I have experienced of various VR games and headsets, I don't find the technology to be there yet for me to want to play that way over traditional gaming. On top of that, unless I have completely missed something, hasn't Sony abandoned VR? It seems like they put out PSVR and then bailed as far as first party game support(like most of the fields they enter).

I know there have been a few pretty decent third party VR games on PS4, but otherwise hasn't it just been pretty barren?

You completely missed everything bro.
Sony just released last year Astrobot, Bravo Team , Tetris Effect, The Persistence, Deracine, The Inpatient.
The future looks good too with Blood and Truth, Dreams and Everybody Golf.
If I had to say I believe Sony is doing a better job supporting PSVR, even with it being a secondary plataform to Sony, than MS supporting Xbox One, even with it being the only plataform they have to support.
I mean it's funny to see Cliff and Ibarra talking about killer apps...when was the last time they were involved in any ?
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,710
Both. You can tell that Mike Ybarra doesn't know about games like Astro Bot, Lone Echo / Echo VR, Beat Saber. I mean we still don't have a killer app, but those are close. His attitude would suggest there is nothing even close, which would make him uninformed.

Those aren't killer apps though, so why would they be relevant to what ybarra was saying?
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,894
The Milky Way
so can i understand why do people finding it funny he acts like a dick torwards someone just because she said she likes playstation? what the fuck?
I think you need to read the tweet again. He was just going about his business when she felt the need to call him an "Xbox person" and tell him she preferred PS4 simply because of the T shirt he was wearing. His response was just a bit of fun. I'm sure she isn't a snowflake, and she'll be fine.

Your use of bad language has really upset me though, I'm feeling really unsettled now.
 

afrodubs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,193
It does seem like some of XBox most vocal proponents don't want VR, or are ambivalent to it. It's gotta factor into MS objectives and messaging. Honestly, the tweet isn't unexpected or that big of a deal.
 

Granadier

Member
Nov 4, 2018
1,605
VR isn't there yet. It's still gimmick-ware. Makes sense that he would shy away from it and that they would avoid entering the space until it's ready.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,579
You completely missed everything bro.
Sony just released last year Astrobot, Bravo Team , Tetris Effect, The Persistence, Deracine, The Inpatient.
The future looks good too with Blood and Truth, Dreams and Everybody Golf.
If I had to say I believe Sony is doing a better job supporting PSVR, even with it being a secondary plataform to Sony, than MS supporting Xbox One, even with it being the only plataform they have to support.
I mean it's funny to see Cliff and Ibarra talking about killer apps...when was the last time they were involved in any ?

To be a little pedantic, Sony didn't release Tetris Effect. It's developed and published by Enhance. It's currently exclusive to PS4 but will probably come to other platforms this year.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
Those aren't killer apps though, so why would they be relevant to what ybarra was saying?
It's the attitude. I mean first of all, expecting a killer app in under 3 years is already quite optimistic given that no full-blown medium has managed that in the past, but it's as if he's overlooking the very highly rated titles that have released. They aren't killer apps, but people playing those games would not be as negative as the guy in his comment.