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TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I've seen stories linked here (at the old site) about NYPD for almost a decade—police brutality in NY doesn't seem like a "current event," let alone police in general
Ok we are not the world here
and I've been hearing about police brutality with the nypd for 30 years either through articles or hip hop music.

what I'm saying is, -now- it is something where video game companies are only starting to take notice of now

This shit has been going on long before i was born and I'm 40, devs and companies are only taking note now, you will see a reflection of that years from now because games take time to make.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
And even though The Dark Knight but especially Dark Knight Rises had some copaganda, there were full plot threads for corrupt police and how it corrupted and disillusioned Harvey Dent. This corrupt police also included how POC cops were thrown into the mix as inevitable, which made it more depressing and believable. Sure this works better in the tonally darker world of Batman but Spider-Man doesn't always to be full of good times or people.
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Yeah, this stuff only makes the story more interesting tbh, and it can be done in a way that fits the tone of the SM games

Pretending everything's clear cut good/evil is boring.

Ok we are not the world here
and I've been hearing about police brutality with the nypd for 30 years either through articles or hip hop music.

what I'm saying is, -now- it is something where video game companies are only starting to take notice of now

This shit has been going on long before i was born and I'm 40, devs and companies are only taking note now, you will see a reflection of that years from now because games take time to make.
If the most recent protests are what actually got their attention, then sure. I'm just saying even before the previous game started development, an uncritical portrayal of police there would seem questionable. And now with a black protagonist? It'll either be a hit or miss
 

EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
10,884
Recently read an article that you can become a cop in 19 weeks in the US.
Really crazy, in my country you have to make a bachelor in law enforcement, wich takes you 3 years.
 

Deleted member 54292

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 27, 2019
2,636
seems like a good opportunity to write the cops in a way that is the model for what we want out of our police force.
 

SasaBassa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,158
Miles is black so I'm expecting some pushback from cops versus what we saw with Peter. Won't be the thrust of the game but probably acknowledged imo
 

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,440
First game had you setting up spy antennae for the fucking NYPD lmao. It was probably one of the most tone deaf directions they could've taken the game. "Spider cop" bullshit was cringe and completely misses the mark. Spider-Man Miles Morales is made by the same people as far I'm aware to expect them to completely ignore reality and put NYPD on this pedestal.

The fact that people defend the spider cop shit from the first game...big oof
 

SixelAlexiS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,768
Italy
It's fictional world where police is good
All the villains have to go somewhere. If Miles won't hand them to the cops then what? He'll kill them instead of sending them to prison? That doesn't make any sense
Yeah, I don't get why a fictional product like this need to replicate everything from the real world... it's a superhero game, whit that mindset let just remove all the supernatural aspect from the game.
 

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,440
"The devs can't possibly react to these kinds of political events this quickly and incorporate it into the games"

NYPD has been a full blown gang going unchecked for decades, you ignoramuses. Mostly they beat the fucking shit out of anyone black or brown but so it's an all inclusive deal they also beat the shit out of *gasp* white people too. So this should concern all of us. Asking for them to put a wall of text and not to affect your pure unadulterated gaming experience is basically asking them not to bring up politics at all cuz it makes you uncomfortable. Here's a smack from reality for you:


NYPD BEING A SCUM ORGANIZATION IS NOTHING NEW

edit: how many posts in here advocating for them to flat out ignore it proves most of you are sheltered nerds that need to a dose of reality
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,152
Where did I imply they do?
You are literally advocating for a comic book videogame to not comment on a civil rights issue (that's been brewing for fucking years if not decades) because you just want to swing around a virtual Manhattan and the realities of American policing set in a city with one of the most corrupt police departments would distract you from that. You can say you aren't one of those "keep politics outta my vidyagames" guy, but the second you added a "but" after that, you're being that guy.
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,009
An accurate depiction of NY cops and how they see a black dude would upset so many people lmao. Fuck the vigilante stuff.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,869
At worst you will get one or two lines of audio addressing it.

At most you might get a mission which presents the and cops as a small minority paid off by a supervillain.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
"The devs can't possibly react to these kinds of political events this quickly and incorporate it into the games"

NYPD has been a full blown gang going unchecked for decades, you ignoramuses. Mostly they beat the fucking shit out of anyone black or brown but so it's an all inclusive deal they also beat the shit out of *gasp* white people too. So this should concern all of us. Asking for them to put a wall of text and not to affect your pure unadulterated gaming experience is basically asking them not to bring up politics at all cuz it makes you uncomfortable. Here's a smack from reality for you:


NYPD BEING A SCUM ORGANIZATION IS NOTHING NEW

edit: how many posts in here advocating for them to flat out ignore it proves most of you are sheltered nerds that need to a dose of reality
Again, the industry is only acknowledging it now, Doesnt matter how long it has been going on if the industry is only paying attention now. We don't even know if the industries current show of support is bullshit or not outside of bungie.
 

data west

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,030
Why do y'all always act like super heros ain't cops

Lmao like they ain't regularly beating the shit out of petty thugs and drug dealers
 

Garcia el Gringo

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,667
NJ
"The devs can't possibly react to these kinds of political events this quickly and incorporate it into the games"

NYPD has been a full blown gang going unchecked for decades, you ignoramuses. Mostly they beat the fucking shit out of anyone black or brown but so it's an all inclusive deal they also beat the shit out of *gasp* white people too. So this should concern all of us. Asking for them to put a wall of text and not to affect your pure unadulterated gaming experience is basically asking them not to bring up politics at all cuz it makes you uncomfortable. Here's a smack from reality for you:


NYPD BEING A SCUM ORGANIZATION IS NOTHING NEW
Definitely, NYPD has been known to be a racist, murderous gang forever, and I feel like the turning point for the mainstream entertainment makers could've been the recording of the murder of Eric Garner by the NYPD in 2014. NYPD Copaganda has had a lot of time to react since that new wave of raw exposure. Extra no excuse post-2020.

It was very frustrating to try to talk about NY's stop-and-frisk in a Spider-Man thread - a day before the murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis cops - where some fans were tripping over themselves to express how beating up drug dealers (however exaggerated/validated in the fiction) in an NYC playground as a STEM white boy was a power fantasy for them in the blockbuster interactive medium. It was heartbreaking the new context my sentiment had less than a week later when NYPD was driving their vehicles into protesters in Brooklyn.
 
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Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,423
UK
Yeah, I don't get why a fictional product like this need to replicate everything from the real world... it's a superhero game, whit that mindset let just remove all the supernatural aspect from the game.
So only take the likeness of Manhattan, NY setting to obsessive detail, the NYPD, real life issues like poverty which the first game addressed, but not what the NYPD are actually like? No one mandated for developers and publishers to set Spider-Man in real locations or use the NYPD.

When it comes to human lives, it seems inanimate objects take more precedence in accuracy for open world games set in real locations. If it's going to take from real life, be ready for criticism where it falls short.
 

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
So only take the likeness of Manhattan, NY setting to obsessive detail, the NYPD, real life issues like poverty which the first game addressed, but not what the NYPD are actually like? No one mandated for developers and publishers to set Spider-Man in real locations or use the NYPD.

When it comes to human lives, it seems inanimate objects take more precedence in accuracy for open world games set in real locations. If it's going to take from real life, be ready for criticism where it falls short.
I understand what you're saying, but they don't try to recreate NY to obsessive detail more than a comic does, though.

Their New York has an Avengers tower, the offices of Nelson & Murdock, The Raft just outside Manhattan, the Daily Bugle, an enormous Oscorp building...It's inspired from, but not a real representation of a real city. It's a comic book version of that.
 
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Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,423
UK
I understand what you're saying, but they don't try to recreate NY to obsessive detail more than a comic does, though.

Their New York has an Avengers tower, the offices of Nelson & Murdock, The Raft just outside Manhattan, the Daily Bugle, an enormous Oscorp building...It's inspired from, but not a real representation of a real city. It's a comic book version of that.
Ehh they went to the detail of getting the same buildings and other landmarks, even down to the bull statue but instead putting in Lockjaw. The Fisk building is the Trump tower, which had to be intentional. More details here of the accuracy:

 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,553
Whatever the tone of the game is, surely it's too late to change it now.
 

MP!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,198
Las Vegas
of course? cops aren't the enemy ... Racism is

I bet they'll put some side missions where you have to stop police brutality though
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,843
Detroit, MI
of course? cops aren't the enemy ... Racism is

I bet they'll put some side missions where you have to stop police brutality though

Cops as a fundamentally racist institution, deliberately designed to carry out violence against civilians at the behest of the state are indeed the enemy.

This is tantamount to saying Nazis weren't the real enemy, antisemitism was.
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,497
great game, playing it right now for the first time. The premise of Spiderman setting up a bunch of surveillance towers for the fucking NYPD of all organizations comes across a bit strange given current climate though.

I think its just common sense for the game with the black protagonist to somewhat address this. Hell, even like one cutscene where Miles gets profiled is enough. They didn't need 2020 for that to be something to consider so the excuse of "it was already in development before the George Floyd/Breona Taylor/Arbery protests occurred" would ring very hollow.

Hopefully we see something like that in the game, or addressed in Spiderman 2 at least. I'm not holding my breath tho.
 

Khasim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,260
You are literally advocating for a comic book videogame to not comment on a civil rights issue (that's been brewing for fucking years if not decades) because you just want to swing around a virtual Manhattan and the realities of American policing set in a city with one of the most corrupt police departments would distract you from that. You can say you aren't one of those "keep politics outta my vidyagames" guy, but the second you added a "but" after that, you're being that guy.
I don't want a game based on a comic book about a dude who has spider powers, fights giant lizards and people calling themselves "Doctor Octopus" or "The Green Goblin" to comment on real-life political issues, therefore I'm one of those True Gamers that can't stand the sight of a POC or a non-waifu woman in a video game. Got it.

As you said, it is a comic book video game, and anything beyond an allusion to real life events does not belong in it in my opinion.
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,152
I don't want a game based on a comic book about a dude who has spider powers, fights giant lizards and people calling themselves "Doctor Octopus" or "The Green Goblin" to comment on real-life political issues, therefore I'm one of those True Gamers that can't stand the sight of a POC or a non-waifu woman in a video game. Got it.

As you said, it is a comic book video game, and anything beyond an allusion to real life events does not belong in it in my opinion.
So you're operating under the idea that because a story falls under speculative fiction, commentary on real-life issues such as systemic racism, unquestioned fealty to authority and corruption of established power structures could or should not coexist with more fantastical elements, essentially disregarding basically the vast majority of critically acclaimed and/or commercially successful speculative fiction. Yeah, you sound exactly like those anti-intellectual troglodytes that spend all their free time whining about SJWs, only you're coming from a place of apathy instead of outright malice, at least for now. If enough people harp on you, I give it about a 60% percent chance that the mask will slip, it usually does. N.K. Jemesin's The City We Became would've been reduced to nothing but fight scenes between a handful of New Yorkers and an eldritch abomination if she wrote it to please your sensibilities.
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,651
Brazil
Probably not, IIRC the NYPD was infiltrated by the mafia in some CTNS chapter, I guess. I could see a story where he tries to cleanse the NYPD to honor his father legacy.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,214
Other than his dad being a cop there is also
Yuri turning into a bad vigilante cop
at the end of the DLC. So I fully expect him to have a few run-ins with their squad of bad cops.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
Cops as an entity are suposed to be good, they risk they lives fighting crime. The fact that are alot of bad cops out there is a problem that need to be fixed in the real world, not something that needs to be changed for a videogame.

Not saying in some games cant have corrupt, or racist cops, many games already do this, but i dont think thats the general idea of how cops are represented in the Marvel universe, and dont think it should be changed to fit real life events.
 
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Khasim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,260
So you're operating under the idea that because a story falls under speculative fiction, commentary on real-life issues such as systemic racism, unquestioned fealty to authority and corruption of established power structures could or should not coexist with more fantastical elements, essentially disregarding basically the vast majority of critically acclaimed and/or commercially successful speculative fiction. Yeah, you sound exactly like those anti-intellectual troglodytes that spend all their free time whining about SJWs, only you're coming from a place of apathy instead of outright malice, at least for now. If enough people harp on you, I give it about a 60% percent chance that the mask will slip, it usually does. N.K. Jemesin's The City We Became would've been reduced to nothing but fight scenes between a handful of New Yorkers and an eldritch abomination if she wrote it to please your sensibilities.

So every game should have commentary on real-life issues? I think we can agree that not every game needs to have such commentary. How do we, then, decide which games should and which games shouldn't have them? Is there an objective way to judge when a game should comment on racism, inequality, poverty, worker exploitation, capitalism? Do we need that in, say, a Rayman game? A Mario game? Dark Souls? Does every single part of every single hobby need to be infused with messages reminding us how the world is shit?

Listen, I realise that such issues are important to you. They are also important to me. Contrary to what you may think, I'm not one of the troglodytes you accuse me of sounding like, I'm not apathetic towards people's problems, once upon a time I just want to take a break in thinking about how everything in the world is going to shit and just unwind before I go insane. Does that make me a shitty person, because I want to take a break sometimes?
I live in one of those countries that currently have a problem with conservative-authoritarian governments dictating their bigoted bullshit views on everyday life, every time I read news there's another horrible law or idiotic statement made by someone who's supposed to protect the people, and aside from elections there is nothing I can do about it. I'm not an activist.
Sometimes I don't mind my escapist hobby reminding me that the real world is a shithole, it's good to know that those issues are not ignored and are reflected in art. Sometimes I just want to murder some demons or beat up people in funny costumes.
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,152
So every game should have commentary on real-life issues? I think we can agree that not every game needs to have such commentary. How do we, then, decide which games should and which games shouldn't have them? Is there an objective way to judge when a game should comment on racism, inequality, poverty, worker exploitation, capitalism? Do we need that in, say, a Rayman game? A Mario game? Dark Souls? Does every single part of every single hobby need to be infused with messages reminding us how the world is shit?
Not every game, but I'd imagine a game set in contemporary New York starring a young black/hispanic male who has relatives on both sides of the law and is a vigilante would be a prime candidate to handle this.

Listen, I realise that such issues are important to you. They are also important to me. Contrary to what you may think, I'm not one of the troglodytes you accuse me of sounding like, I'm not apathetic towards people's problems, once upon a time I just want to take a break in thinking about how everything in the world is going to shit and just unwind before I go insane. Does that make me a shitty person, because I want to take a break sometimes?
I live in one of those countries that currently have a problem with conservative-authoritarian governments dictating their bigoted bullshit views on everyday life, every time I read news there's another horrible law or idiotic statement made by someone who's supposed to protect the people, and aside from elections there is nothing I can do about it. I'm not an activist.
Sometimes I don't mind my escapist hobby reminding me that the real world is a shithole, it's good to know that those issues are not ignored and are reflected in art. Sometimes I just want to murder some demons or beat up people in funny costumes.
Guess what, a lot people don't have the luxury of escaping these problems like you do. We can't turn off our skin color, our sexuality, our gender identity while our supposed allies throw their hands up and say they can't do anything other than drop a vote in the ballot box every couple of years. That is apathy.
 

Khasim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,260
Not every game, but I'd imagine a game set in contemporary New York starring a young black/hispanic male who has relatives on both sides of the law and is a vigilante would be a prime candidate to handle this.
Fair point, I agree it is a good candidate, but it is still primarily a Spider-Man game. I'm not black or hispanic, or any mixture of those, so my opinion doesn't really matter here, but is it unreasonable to imagine that maybe some of those people would also like to forget about their problems sometimes?


Guess what, a lot people don't have the luxury of escaping these problems.
I'm gonna go out on a whim and assume that if somebody can afford to buy a video game console and a TV then they do have the luxury of being able to forget about the world for a couple hours.

The original ps4 game had a commentary on contemporary issues.
It did.
 

Party

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Dec 3, 2018
1,425
They revealed Evan Narcisse is working on this game. I'm keeping my expectations low, but there is a chance that he and other folks made an effort to address issues around blackness and what it means to be a hero when major institutions around you are built on oppression.

I think his father being a cop makes that potential story line all the more interesting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,763
Fair point, I agree it is a good candidate, but it is still primarily a Spider-Man game. I'm not black or hispanic, or any mixture of those, so my opinion doesn't really matter here, but is it unreasonable to imagine that maybe some of those people would also like to forget about their problems sometimes?



I'm gonna go out on a whim and assume that if somebody can afford to buy a video game console and a TV then they do have the luxury of being able to forget about the world for a couple hours.


It did.

I'm gonna go on a whim and ask....Please do tell the video games you are playing and please......I really hope to god, that they are only platformers or sports games with no storylines like a Mario or PGA tour so I can really understand if you are being sincere.

Because this comment just rubs me the wrong way. I know I buy games for entertainment, and whatever story is being told, I KNOW ain't about me, but is worth exploring. I don't do this stupid notion of playing games of escapism as if that's the only reason to play game. Psssshh...
 
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Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,423
UK
Have any of the comic runs dealt with the racism of NYPD? Considering how inclusive and woke the Marvel comics try to be, surely it must have come up.