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Is there a way to play older games at lower resolutions (600 by 800 and lower) without blurring?

sn00zer

sn00zer

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,096
I kinda hate how older games look in hi res. I think a lot of these games relied on lower resolution kind of hide or insinuate texture. There's a crunchiness to it I like. But setting games to a low resolution on a hi res monitor just turns into a blurry mess. Are there any tools out there (would love it was jkust included in remasters) that allows you to play games at a low res with the crunch instead of the blur. Its hard to find examples of this online, but a lot of low poly artists are using this.

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kadotsu

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,505
You could try GeDoSaTo to get an integer scale resolution to avoid scaling artifacts.
 
Alvis

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
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Oct 25, 2017
11,233
Spain
If you're using a RTX GPU you can turn on integer scaling in the Nvidia control panel, with 1XXX and older GPUs nope because lol nvidia
For AMD and Intel GPUs pretty sure you can too, but not sure which GPUs support it exactly
 
Yogi

Yogi

Banned
Nov 10, 2019
1,806
Xharos said:
If you're using a RTX GPU you can turn on integer scaling in the Nvidia control panel, with 1XXX and older GPUs nope because lol nvidia
For AMD and Intel GPUs pretty sure you can too, but not sure which GPUs support it exactly
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I didn't realise integar scaling was a specific setting, I assumed if the resolution was exactly divisible then it would be the same thing.

That gives me some hope for scaling up on a 4K monitor/tv in the future then.

Come on Nvidia, that's poor support.
 
jotun?

jotun?

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Oct 28, 2017
4,506
If you have a video card that supports it, integer scaling option in the drivers
 
Yarbskoo

Yarbskoo

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Oct 27, 2017
2,980
I've been using integer scaling ever since Nvidia added it to the control panel. It's pretty neat.
 
lazygecko

lazygecko

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Oct 25, 2017
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store.steampowered.com

Lossless Scaling on Steam

All-in-one gaming utility for scaling and frame generation
store.steampowered.com store.steampowered.com

Lossless Scaling allows for integer scaling.

Sure would be nice if there was some way to apply ReShade independantly of the upscaling so you can apply CRT shaders in any game you like without having it also affected by the scaling.
 

Deleted member 8468

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I wasn't aware integer scaling could be used this way, I also enjoy the crunchy bits. Rad.

Also, Devil Daggers is a great game (shooter in OP).
 

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KojiKnight said:
AMDs new drivers released at the start of this year have an integer scaling option which is what you're looking for.

Most graphic cards don't even offer connectors that work with CRTs anymore.
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There are plenty of lossless and lag free ways to convert HDMI or DVI to VGA. That shouldn't stop anyone.

Some higher end PVMs CRTs also take digital through a proprietary port that is easily converted to from HDMI.
 
Yarbskoo

Yarbskoo

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Oct 27, 2017
2,980
I feel like a crt would smooth the pixels, so you wouldnt get that razor sharp unfiltered pixel look that i think the OP's going for.
 
OP
OP
sn00zer

sn00zer

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Feb 28, 2018
6,096
Googled a bit. So is integer scaling not coming to GTX cards at all or just not yet?
 

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Yarbskoo said:
I feel like a crt would smooth the pixels, so you wouldnt get that razor sharp unfiltered pixel look that i think the OP's going for.
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Nah... Higher res CRTs can definitely be razor sharp. They just minimize the appearance of aliasing since they can actually hit native resolutions below 1080p without scaling. This is only 480p and a cellphone pic i took, but check it out:

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It's hard to photograph, especially in motion, but it definitely does not look soft once you start talking about EDTV resolutions and higher.
 
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androvsky

androvsky

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Oct 27, 2017
3,507
Yarbskoo said:
I feel like a crt would smooth the pixels, so you wouldnt get that razor sharp unfiltered pixel look that i think the OP's going for.
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That's my reaction as well, coming from someone with a CRT with s-video and component input in their retro gaming setup. Maybe a CRT monitor or PVM, but a TV is going to smooth those pixels out horizontally. And if you're using a monitor or PVM good luck getting a display much larger than 20".

If you want crunchy pixel goodness, do a nearest neighbor upscale to whatever your monitor resolution is, it should be an option in just about everything. Even crappy console retro collections usually have that option. It's not perfect, there's problems with uneven pixels if you don't get the resolution right, but it's usually pretty good.
 

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androvsky said:
That's my reaction as well, coming from someone with a CRT with s-video and component input in their retro gaming setup. Maybe a CRT monitor or PVM, but a TV is going to smooth those pixels out horizontally. And if you're using a monitor or PVM good luck getting a display much larger than 20".

If you want crunchy pixel goodness, do a nearest neighbor upscale to whatever your monitor resolution is, it should be an option in just about everything. Even crappy console retro collections usually have that option. It's not perfect, there's problems with uneven pixels if you don't get the resolution right, but it's usually pretty good.
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The CRT necessary in this instance would be a PC monitor or a PVM capable of HD resolutions. If you're using a consumer set with S-Video and Component, yes that's going to give you the impression that CRTs are soft. But any PC monitor from the 90s or early 2000s will be pretty high res and sharp. Even generic ones from Dell or Gateway.
 
GamerJM

GamerJM

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Nov 8, 2017
15,649
I'm confused. The games in the GIFs aren't old, they're newer games with a retro aesthetic.
 
androvsky

androvsky

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Oct 27, 2017
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Peltz said:
The CRT necessary in this instance would be a PC monitor or a PVM capable of HD resolutions. If you're using a consumer set with S-Video and Component, yes that's going to give you the impression that CRTs are soft. But any PC monitor from the 90s or early 2000s will be pretty high res and sharp. Even generic ones from Dell or Gateway.
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Yeah, that's pretty much my point. There's a lot of recommendations to "get a CRT" without being even the slightest bit specific. Nothing worse than someone following that advice to drag home a giant 32" CRT TV only to find out it's blurrier than the LCD TV, and now they have to figure out how to dispose of it properly.

sn00zer , what old games are you trying to play on what kind of video card? If you're using an emulator there should be settings to get you pretty close to what you want.
 
exodus

exodus

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Oct 25, 2017
9,952
If you want razor sharp on a modern display, your best bet is a Turing card (GTX 16xx, RTX 20xx) with integer scaling and a 4K display. Without a 4K display your options will be very limited. You'll still be left with letterboxing though if you want to stick to common older resolutions (e.g. 640*480).
 
androvsky

androvsky

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Oct 27, 2017
3,507
sn00zer said:
Oooo I have an i7 so this should work. Nice!
So if Idownload the latest Intel driver I'm good to go?
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Probably, assuming you can plug your monitor into your motherboard. I haven't done it myself.

edit: What are you trying to play? I get the impression most emulators have good options for scaling, and if you're playing an old DOS game Dosbox might have good options too.

molnizzle said:
Is this possible with monitor plugged in to GPU? I would assume not. That solution is using Intel's integrated graphics.
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OP would probably need to plug their monitor into the motherboard.
 
OP
OP
sn00zer

sn00zer

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,096
androvsky said:
Probably, assuming you can plug your monitor into your motherboard. I haven't done it myself.

edit: What are you trying to play? I get the impression most emulators have good options for scaling, and if you're playing an old DOS game Dosbox might have good options too.


OP would probably need to plug their monitor into the motherboard.
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Just looking to replay half life and the quakes
 
androvsky

androvsky

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Oct 27, 2017
3,507
sn00zer said:
Just looking to replay half life and the quakes
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Ah, that makes sense, those are basically the exact awkward middle ground between emulation scaling and supporting modern monitors. I suppose you could run Quake 1 and 2 (and possibly Half-Life?) in software mode in Dosbox.

Of course setting up Dosbox isn't trivial either, there's an older discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dosbox/comments/4wyj7r/xpost_pixelperfect_display_in_dosbox_with_scaling/
 
Hoa

Hoa

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Jun 6, 2018
4,304
You could mess around with a tool like DXWnd to do that I think. Also lets you play older games in windowed mode.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,196
Get a display that does 1:1 pixel mapping and/or has 4:3 ratio support.

I think the scaling options in the Nvidia control panel might also let you preserve the aspect ratio.
 
OP
OP
sn00zer

sn00zer

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,096
androvsky said:
Ah, that makes sense, those are basically the exact awkward middle ground between emulation scaling and supporting modern monitors. I suppose you could run Quake 1 and 2 (and possibly Half-Life?) in software mode in Dosbox.

Of course setting up Dosbox isn't trivial either, there's an older discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dosbox/comments/4wyj7r/xpost_pixelperfect_display_in_dosbox_with_scaling/
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Yeah not gunna mess with all that.i was hoping for a click a button solution. PS5 better have all this stuff included for PS1 emulation
 
Pargon

Pargon

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Oct 27, 2017
12,030
A lot of this really depends on the game you're trying to play.
With emulated games, it's trivial to render at low resolutions and scale them to fit the display with crisp pixels.
For older PC games your options may be more limited. If it's a very old game you might find that API wrappers such as dgVoodoo2 support crisp scaling.
If it's a newer game which can support high resolution rendering, it may be possible to use a ReShade shader to give it a low resolution appearance.

Lightning Count said:
Just a DVI to VGA adaptor and you're good to go.
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DVI is dead. New GPUs are not supposed to use it any more, and if AIBs use one, it's a DVI-D port replacing an HDMI port rather than DVI-I.

Peltz said:
Unfortunately, modern screen tech is all fixed-pixel with scaling. It's really not how things should have evolved if gaming were given more consideration by TV manufacturers about 2 decades ago.
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I'm not sure what the alternative would be to fixed-pixel displays, other than continuing to produce CRTs - and that was never going to happen.
But fixed-pixel displays are not really the problem - it's the scaling which is used, and the lack of options.
This is why I campaigned to NVIDIA for five years to try and get them to implement integer scaling. Ironically now that it is, I don't have a GPU that supports the feature to even test it.

And there are better options now too.
You can use nearest neighbor (sharp) scaling to the closest integer, and use linear filtering for the last fraction required to fill the display or correct the aspect ratio.
There are now shaders that do an even better job than that, which can be used in emulators.
There was some discussion of it in this topic recently:


sn00zer said:
Yeah not gunna mess with all that.i was hoping for a click a button solution. PS5 better have all this stuff included for PS1 emulation
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Unfortunately the only "one click" solution is the integer scaling option in the NVIDIA driver if you have an RTX card (or 1660?).
It's frustrating that display manufacturers don't have a good scaling solution for pixel art/low resolution games built in. It shouldn't even be difficult to implement. The problem is convincing them to do it.
 
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