Is using cheats for items/money in SP modes of microtransaction-riddled games a form of piracy?

[nintendoman58]

With all the rage that is micro-transactions and loot boxes these days, do you think it's a form of piracy to use something like Cheat Engine to obtain in-game currency when the option to purchase more with micro transactions exist?

For multiplayer, obviously this is wrong. But what about for single player?

If you look at Tales of Zestiria's Steam page you'll see that there's an "Adventure Items" DLC pack that's basically just glorified cheat codes. Why can't we just mod the game ourselves and create an even more optimal experience?

Again, this is for single player stuff only. Creating an unfair advantage against computer players is one thing but an unfair advantage against human players is another.

 

[zombiejames]

Fuck no.

 

[LewieP]

No. Using mods, cheats or hacks (in ways that don't impact other players) is always fair game. You bought the game, play it how you want.

There's that mod to remove the wait timers from MGS5. It improves the game. There is no onus on players to have a lesser experience just because the publisher wants to monetize certain elements of the design.

 

[ZanderEzekial]

Boy, they sure would love if you thought so.

 

[what am i even looking at]

nope

 

[spam musubi]

Yes. You may think it's justified, and that's up to you, but it's pretty much the definition of piracy. You're circumventing digital protections to gain access to digital content that you did not pay the creators for, even though they deemed that you should.

It's up to everyone to reconcile this morally, but if we stick to pure letter of the definition it is piracy.

 

[Venom]

Technically yes. BUT games like BF2 I wouldn't really care due to bringing P2W to console.

 

[Grim Patron]

It's pro consumer.

 

[Maneil99]

nope

 

[LewieP]

Yes. You may think it's justified, and that's up to you, but it's pretty much the definition of piracy. You're circumventing digital protections to gain access to digital content that you did not pay the creators for, even though they deemed that you should.

It's up to everyone to reconcile this morally, but if we stick to pure letter of the definition it is piracy.

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You did pay for it. It's in the game that they sold you. We're not talking about downloading pirated copies of DLC, we're talking about changing some numbers in the game that they sold you.

 

[spam musubi]

You did pay for it. It's in the game that they sold you. We're not talking about downloading pirated copies of DLC, we're talking about changing some numbers in the game that they sold you.

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Reminder that you do not own games. You purchase a license to be able to access the contents. So no, you technically did not buy a game. The digital software is still within their rights.

 

[nintendoman58]

You did pay for it. It's in the game that they sold you. We're not talking about downloading pirated copies of DLC, we're talking about changing some numbers in the game that they sold you.

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Exactly. Is there some sort of Terms of Service that forbids players from modding content in the games they own or something?

For online stuff I can imagine, but single player is another story.

Reminder that you do not own games. You purchase a license to be able to access the contents. So no, you technically did not buy a game. The digital software is still within their rights.

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But we are accessing the contents. We're modifying values that we can access ourselves. Is there something in a ToS that forbids us from doing this?

 

[Servbot24]

I think it's piracy but I also wouldn't feel bad if I did it. Never bought a game with microtransactions though.

 

[Deleted member 733]

Yes. You may think it's justified, and that's up to you, but it's pretty much the definition of piracy. You're circumventing digital protections to gain access to digital content that you did not pay the creators for, even though they deemed that you should.

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Yep, this seems reasonable to me. The developers set up a system that requires you to pay money or time for certain DLC. Using a cheat to circumvent the system and obtain the DLC for free pretty clearly violates that.

To argue otherwise suggests there is a player-determined line as to what is considered "software or DLC" and what is considered "not actually software or DLC" for which it is acceptable to circumvent the developer-intended store and acquire it for free.

Any arguments about "you bought the game and therefore you own it" wouldn't hold up legally, I'm pretty sure, since virtually any game you have in either digital or physical form is merely licensed software with an agreement rather than owned software.

 

[nasirum]

No clue, but can I do this in SWBF2 yet?

 

[Vylash]

if it's something that can only be obtained through micro transactions, absolutely

 

[UCBooties]

Yes. You may think it's justified, and that's up to you, but it's pretty much the definition of piracy. You're circumventing digital protections to gain access to digital content that you did not pay the creators for, even though they deemed that you should.

It's up to everyone to reconcile this morally, but if we stick to pure letter of the definition it is piracy.

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I agree with this post. It's best to accept that if you are getting something that the developer intended you to pay for without paying, you are being a pirate. Whether you feel that piracy is justified by unethical business practices is up to you.

 

[Jeff ChickenDig]

Here is a protip. Like most games these days allow on the fly difficulty changes.

Just change it to easy if game goes weird difficulty spike, or you get bored and just wanna finish the game.

Doesn't cost any money!

 

[Umibozu]

Yes. You may think it's justified, and that's up to you, but it's pretty much the definition of piracy. You're circumventing digital protections to gain access to digital content that you did not pay the creators for, even though they deemed that you should.

It's up to everyone to reconcile this morally, but if we stick to pure letter of the definition it is piracy.

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This is obviously the right answer, but will get flack because of current controversies

 

[DesiacX]

If its something you can earn in the game anyways, then no. The only way i would view that as piracy is if the mod was designed to pirate the 'add currency' DLC.

 

[Boiled Goose]

I think it's not immoral, so go for it. They can ban you from services which is also fair.

 

[Einbroch]

Of course it is. Do you consider cracking a game's DLC content to the piracy? It's the same thing legally.

Now, whether or not you think it's 'naughty' is up to you. Personally, I don't care, it's your single player experience, do what you want. But it's 100% piracy. You're unlocking content that you otherwise would have to pay for.

 

[Ahasverus]

It's a mod, mods are not piracy.

 

[LewieP]

Reminder that you do not own games. You purchase a license to be able to access the contents. So no, you technically did not buy a game. The digital software is still within their rights.

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I didn't say that you own it, I said that you paid for it.

Publishers are free to attempt to enforce their terms, or terminate licenses in the event that customers have breached their terms, but breaking a user agreement is not the same as committing piracy, and conflating the two is counterproductive.

Has there been any case of this kind of clause in use agreements being tested in court? I don't think publishers taking legal action against people for using mods in games that they have bought would get very far.

Edit: Would people have a problem with someone modding a game to add support for higher resolution output? What if the publisher was selling an HD remaster of a game that offered the same? What if the user agreement explicitly disallowed resolution mods?

 

[Umibozu]

Also be advised that this forum (to my knowledge) does not advocate for piracy, which is inline of what you're asking in regards to.

 

[Valkerion]

No. Using mods, cheats or hacks (in ways that don't impact other players) is always fair game. You bought the game, play it how you want.

There's that mod to remove the wait timers from MGS5. It improves the game. There is no onus on players to have a lesser experience just because the publisher wants to monetize certain elements of the design.

Click to shrink...

Ditto this. Particularly the MGS5 example. Stopped playing the PS4 version and bought it on PC on sale when I saw the real world timers that only tick down in game. NOPE!

Long as your not impacting other players its fair game. Personally think it's a bit scummy to mod/hack your way to microtransction items but if the game is coded in a way that lets it happen -shrug-

 

[Zoc]

Breaking a EULA does not equal piracy, morally or legally.

 

[jonjonaug]

Absolutely not.

 

[Bhonar]

I don't know what the technical answer is, but I know I would not feel bad doing it

 

[Jade]

I don't even understand the question. Cheat Engine is free. Mods are free. You bought the game. Where's the piracy?

 

[Ganzlinger]

If you can access the content by playing it, it's not piracy but cheating. It's piracy if it's only buyable content.

 

[passepied joe]

No and anybody who wants to do it shouldn't be shamed.

 

[Meatfist]

I don't know what the technical answer is, but I know I would not feel bad doing it

Click to shrink...

Same. Call it what you want, but I certainly won't feel bad about it

 

[Xiyng]

It could be some other form of crime (the same crime hacking generally is), but I just don't see how it could be interpreted as piracy.

 

[Kintaro]

This sounds to me more along the line of using a Game Genie back in the 16 bit days.

 

[Deleted member 22630]

Hmm, it's more tampering of software which is generally against EULAs and may be illegal, but piracy by definition is a copy of a digital product obtained in an illegal manner, but I'm no lawyer.

 

[4859]

If its on disc, then no.

If its downloaded, then technically yes.

 

[packy17]

If it's content you can only access via optional paywall, then yes, it's piracy/theft.

If you're duplicating items that you can get through normal gameplay, that's just classic cheating and there's nothing (morally) wrong with it (as long as it isn't affecting other players in a co-op or competitive environment)

 

[davepoobond]

i think its less piracy, and more just traditional stealing

 

[DesiacX]

I don't even understand the question. Cheat Engine is free. Mods are free. You bought the game. Where's the piracy?

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if the publisher sells the currency for a single player game, would using those free things that arent questioned elsewhere be consider piracy?

The question comes from the idea that youd be recieving something similar to the paid content for free.

 

[LewieP]

It could be some other form of crime (the same crime hacking generally is), but I just don't see how it could be interpreted as piracy.

Click to shrink...

"hacking" is not a crime. That's a ridiculous notion.

 

[Deleted member 32561]

Legally, in some convoluted sense, it probably is.

But in actuality? Fuck no.

Unless a game is competitive and the hacking gives the other player an edge over me, I really don't care what others do with their own games.

 

[ApeEscaper]

Most microtransactions were shit that was meant to be earned in game normally but then they take that part out and monetise off of it so fuck them, cheating to get back shit locked behind microtransactions paywall that should be originally in the game is fine and they can't and won't do shit to you and it's entirely different to say pirating a whole game which is obviously something not meant to do

 

[tommy7154]

I don't know what the technical answer is, but I know I would not feel bad doing it

Click to shrink...

This

 

[NullPointer]

Legally, in some convoluted sense, it probably is.

But in actuality? Fuck no.

Click to shrink...

Legally probably but actually no? Not sure how that works.

I also don't understand how it could be legal to do in one game and not in another just because something is being sold. Some games sell treasure maps for premium currency that you can circumvent by finding them on your own or following a guide. Doesn't seem much different in the abstract.

 

[Liam Allen-Miller]

It's pretty much a victimless crime as long as you're not distributing a method to cheat these systems, but I think you probably are breaking some rule or regulation. Don't think the average person would mind either way when it comes to personal use in a single player game.

 

[Elfforkusu]

No, it's a form of card counting

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Yes. You may think it's justified, and that's up to you, but it's pretty much the definition of piracy. You're circumventing digital protections to gain access to digital content that you did not pay the creators for, even though they deemed that you should.

It's up to everyone to reconcile this morally, but if we stick to pure letter of the definition it is piracy.

Click to shrink...

I may be misreading the OP, but I don't think this is correct. I mean, if you were unlocking Hearts of Stone for Witcher 3 without paying, then yeah, that's clearly piracy. But if you use cheatengine to give yourself more XP rather than paying $5 for an XP booster pack... who is that really hurting (in a singleplayer game)? You can still get XP, so you aren't getting access to something the developers walled off, you're just doing it at a faster rate than they built in. Frankly, I think it's unethical for developers to charge money for something that boils down to a cheatcode. I mean, it's a good thing we had a golden age of videogames before GAAS took off; if the Konami code was invented today, it would just be slang for swiping a credit card.

 

[Flandy]

I don't think so since you're not downloading a lisence key or some copywritten content. You're just modding your game which I don't think is considered illegal by anyone?

 

[Jade]

if the publisher sells the currency for a single player game, would using those free things that arent questioned elsewhere be consider piracy?

The question comes from the idea that youd be recieving something similar to the paid content for free.

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Hmm, so if I made a game, then sold an infinite health DLC cheat, and a couple people used Cheat Engine to manually give themselves infinite health without buying the dlc, they are pirates? Does that not sound completely ludicrous to you guys?

In reality, they made their own mod, basically. Just because it works in the same way as the dlc doesn't automatically mean they pirated the dlc. They don't even have the dlc files; they just changed a value in the game's .exe