Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,169
Again, welcome to most rich international cities. How many people that work in SF live in SF, how many people that work in Manhattan live in Manhattan, etc.

The key is to make public transit hubs. Look at places like Brentwood, Surrey Central, Metrotown, Coquitlam Center, Marine Drive, Richmond, New Westminister, etc. It's not a bad lifestyle living in those areas (well except for Surrey - Surrey is gross).

All of those are not affordable. Affordable starts in Abbotsford and moves out from there. That being the only affordable area is not sustainable. There is no transit options for people out there. Abbotsford is 71 km from Vancouver. There is no transit option for that.
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,692
I like cities that have some grit or edge to them, Vancouver doesn't really have much of that - it's too clean and pretty. Nice place to visit though.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,260
All of those are not affordable. Affordable starts in Abbotsford and moves out from there. That being the only affordable area is not sustainable. There is no transit options for people out there. Abbotsford is 71 km from Vancouver. There is no transit option for that.

I disagree those aren't affordable. You can rent a modern new 2 bedroom in Surrey for $1800/month. So $900 per person, so $10.8k. At $15/hr you make $28.8k a year. Net for that is $23.6k. That's 45% housing cost which is realistic nowadays.

The days of living in large homes on low wage are gone.

I do agree we need high speed rail from areas like Abbotsford and Langley (skytrain is coming by 2025 I believe? assuming conservatives don't win federally and cancel infrastructure fund)
 
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Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,169
I disagree those aren't affordable. You can rent a modern new 2 bedroom in Surrey for $1800/month. So $900 per person, so $10.8k. At $15/hr you make $28.8k a year. Net for that is $23.6k. That's 45% housing cost which is realistic nowadays.

The days of living in large homes on low wage are gone.

I do agree we need high speed rail from areas like Abbotsford and Langley (skytrain is coming by 2025 I believe? assuming conservatives don't win federally and cancel infrastructure fund)

That's the problem though, we are only looking at some areas of Surrey that can be deemed affordable. The places like Brentwood are not anywhere close to it. A pocket of Surrey and then Abbotsford and beyond is not going to do it.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,260
That's the problem though, we are only looking at some areas of Surrey that can be deemed affordable. The places like Brentwood are not anywhere close to it. A pocket of Surrey and then Abbotsford and beyond is not going to do it.

Actually the way Surrey is growing, I disagree.

I can also find 2 bedrooms in New Westminister, Coquitlam, Maple Ridge, etc for $2000 range. These are all modern places that have train access. You can find 2 bedrooms in older buildings for $1600~ in these areas.

You can live a hour away via public transit quite affordably in Vancouver. Vancouverites just aren't used to having done that, but that's very normal in these rich international cities.

Using London as example again, most of my work colleagues in the lower brackets (support, business development, etc) are usually at least an hour train ride away.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
Something I just wanted to touch upon. Vancouver clearly has a "pre" and "post" 1986 (which is when we hosted the World's Fair).

The video suggested that in 1986, Vancouver's forward-thinking planners inherited "a city with good bones" upon which a real city could be built. But Vancouver was already a hidden gem of a city before 1986, which is why it was selected to be shown off.

In the 1960's, BC constructed (what at the time was) the largest hydroelectric dam in the world and established "BC Hydro", our electrical utility, with more hydroelectric dams to follow (at least two more as big as the first one). Pre-1986, we were selling our excess green energy to California.

But in 1984, all dam construction ceased. Vancouver is no longer energy self-sufficient. BC Hydro apparently has a stated moral objection to creating dirty energy, so it doesn't build any coal plants (good), it pays a premium to buy dirty energy from those willing to get their hands dirty and help kill the planet for smug Vancouver (wat?). All while Vancouver residents bitch about their ever-increasing energy costs. Thanks, forward-thinking post-1986 planners [/sarcasm].

And, since the 1950's, Vancouver had an award-winning public transit system made up entirely of electric trolley buses. In time for 1986, we built our first electric monorail.

And then (after 1986) the powers that be let their award-winning system fucking rot. 20 years without any new investment. I was riding the buses at the time, and heard the drivers constantly bitching about how the maintenance department was barely holding the system together with duct tape. IIRC, the impetus for new investment finally came when a wheel fell off a bus and killed someone. But the powers that be complained that electric vehicles have too much upfront cost, so they bought some dinosaur-burners to take the pressure off the electric system.

And then they realized that the dinosaur-burners could go places where the electric buses couldn't, so they reassigned them towards expanding the transit system's mandate instead of supplementing the broken system. They did eventually get some new electric buses, to replace the dying electric fleet, but they just kept on adding more and more dinosaur-burners, so now the fleet is five times it's original size, and dinosaur-burners outnumber electrics by at least 4-to-1. While our single-track monorail keeps on breaking down, making things grind to a halt for several hours for thousands of people. Very forward thinking [/sarcasm].

Basically I'm just saying, progress has been made since 1986, but there's also been quite a lot of resting on laurels and complacent backsliding.
 

RC.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,058
Vancouver, BC
As someone who was born, raised and currently lives in Van, absolutely not.
Nothing is remotely affordable and that extends even beyond real estate.
I really do miss the city I grew up in.
 

ThisIsBlitz21

Member
Oct 22, 2018
4,663
I currently live in Surrey, British Columbia

VanCity is clean very livable, but it's expensive as heck. That's the single biggest fatal flaw. Otherwise, the people are nice, the weather great (relative to most of Canada), food is awesome, and it's pretty walkable compared to most cities in North America. The city feels very well organized in general. It's very multicultural.

But there is NO WAY it's the best North American City with HOW EXPENSIVE it is. Just no way. There's probably a few that are better. Maybe even Calgary, Edmonton, and Toronto as far as big Canadian cities, but I'm not sure cause I've only been to one of them.

It's way better than Montreal tho, which generally felt unwelcoming the one time I've been there. Trash overrated city.
 

ChimpBottle

Member
Apr 6, 2018
54
I live in Surrey. If somehow you managed to afford to live there, I can see a great case for it, but mostly because I enjoy the hikes and snowboarding around it. The nightlife is good enough.

But chances are, you can't afford to live here. I sure can't
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,732
If I I had a button to seamlessly move me and all my fam and friends, I'd press it for Montréal.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
Have you been to Vancouver? I have seen you mention other cities being better a few times but no actual mention of your first hand experience of the city.

You don't need to go to Vancouver to know its inferior to New Orleans. Every city is, it's OK.

Just kidding
 
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electricblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
All the big cities in NA suck to live in. Maybe Vancouver sucks the least if you're rich? I'd prefer San Diego in that case.
 

kalgore

Member
Oct 29, 2017
392
The best part of Vancouver is taking the ferry to Vancouver Island. Van is fine. Victoria is awesome. Also I love going to White Spot for breakfast I wish we had that chain in Ontario.
 

Gitaroo

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,169
I visit Van at least twice a year cause my family are there. Used to be a a dream to live there with warm weather with lots of cheap food and variety until 3 years ago when they increase the minimum wage and everyone jack up the price. Now everything cost almost the same as Alberta where I am live now on top of pst for everything you buy...
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
The skyline being that stark white is sterile. No character. All bunched together so cluttered and suffocating.
Maybe the white colour is used for cooling purposes. Utility making things too uniform.

Darker coloured materials of some variety for the cooler times of the year and maybe a light coloured retractable fabric for warmer. Smart materials?
Needs some redesign to put some life in it. Art. Culture. Life.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Vancouver is neat but it's a hell hole to actually live in, drive, and commute.
 

DazzlerIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,772
I live in Mount Pleasant in Vancouver. It's a beautiful city for sure with some glaring flaws. The homeless situation, and property crime that goes along with it, is reaching crisis point, everyone seems to be unhappy, and there's this "me first" attitude from a lot of people that's really fucking depressing.

I love it here, but having to come downtown for work every day really affects my mental health. It's a gauntlet of shitty people doing shitty things
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
I'd rather be in Seattle than Vancouver, tbh.

Victoria is pretty nice though, love the gardens.
 

Deleted member 8901

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,522
Yeah it was a great city until the politicians sold out their own citizens to the mainland Chinese.

Also a great place to go if you have no career ambitions and are happy doing shitty back office work in a satellite office that nobody cares about. Which is basically Vancouver's entire job market. Get used to every other person you meet introducing themselves as a realtor, lmao.

Live the dream of being in Coquitlam or Surrey but telling people you live in Vancouver with mountains and beaches despite never going downtown or to the beach because it's over an hour's drive away.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,148
I feel like the problem with any North American city is that it's either too damn hot or too damn cold. If it's neither of those then it's too damn expensive to live in.

But if you can stomach the cold, my favorite city is Portland, Maine. It's the perfect blend of small town meets big city that is also on the water.
 

ccbfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,501
Not sure where this you need to be rich to enjoy Vancouver comes from?

I've visited Vancouver a few times and the cost are generally much lower than most major cities, from hotel to food to activities.

I know about the whole issue with the housing market but other than that everything seems kinda cheap. (I'm from New York so my POV might be skewed but even then it was less expensive then than San Fran, Seattle or Toronto)
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
Again, welcome to most rich international cities. How many people that work in SF live in SF, how many people that work in Manhattan live in Manhattan, etc.

The key is to make public transit hubs. Look at places like Brentwood, Surrey Central, Metrotown, Coquitlam Center, Marine Drive, Richmond, New Westminister, etc. It's not a bad lifestyle living in those areas (well except for Surrey - Surrey is gross).
Surrey is fine, I live near Surrey Central, it's changed a lot over the last few years.
 

gcwy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,685
Houston, TX
No, it's either NYC or Chicago. Actually I think I'm just gonna go with Chicago. What an incredibly wonderful city it is!
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
North American cities (in general) suck compared to the European cities I've visited. Vancouver nightlife isn't great, but we've got some great food spots and bars, some nice upscale and general areas, since I live super close to the skytrain, it's very accessible to get to most places in Vancouver for me (add in Car2Go and finally Uber coming in, and it's a godsend).

That said, I hate driving in Vancouver proper, it's garbage. Driving in the suburbs is usually good. I'm hoping Doug McCallum retires really soon and we can get in a council in Surrey with enough vision to properly transform our middling downtown into a legit downtown and entertainment district over the next ten years.
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
I disagree those aren't affordable. You can rent a modern new 2 bedroom in Surrey for $1800/month. So $900 per person, so $10.8k. At $15/hr you make $28.8k a year. Net for that is $23.6k. That's 45% housing cost which is realistic nowadays.

The days of living in large homes on low wage are gone.

I do agree we need high speed rail from areas like Abbotsford and Langley (skytrain is coming by 2025 I believe? assuming conservatives don't win federally and cancel infrastructure fund)
A spur line out to Langley that'll probably dead-end when they run out of funding in Fleetwood doesn't help anyone, thanks McCallum.

But I agree, high speed rail from Abbotsford (West Coast Express extension?) would be beneficial.

But Tabris, you still live in Vancouver? I thought you moved to London
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
Lived here since I was 2. It's a nice place to live. I grew up in the heart of Kits, pretty close to Kits Beach.

Not sure what's supposed to make Vancouver so special, it's fine but doesn't really blow my socks off.

And yes it's expensive as fuck.
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
BC (and especially Vancouver) wages in general is shit compared to other cities, and that really exacerbates the affordability crisis. I have friends in the tech industry and what they make compared to their colleagues in Seattle or San Francisco is night and day. Vancouver wants to believe in this myth that it's a burgeoning tech hub darling, but it's kind of a crock compared to American cities or Toronto or something.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
22,187
Vancouver is great if you're filthy stinking rich.
The rich don't really flock to Vancouver. It's not a desirable city for wealthy people. What draws wealth is the housing market. Other markets are kind of subpar. Additionally, Vancouver doesn't have much for, well, elite things. New York is vastly better for a wealthy person. Same with London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Paris, and lesser known cities who actually court wealthy tourism.

I don't know many wealthy people who stay in Vancouver. I know a few who use it as an anchor of sorts cause they were born here but they all live in very different parts of the world from Czech to Singapore.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,260
The rich don't really flock to Vancouver. It's not a desirable city for wealthy people. What draws wealth is the housing market. Other markets are kind of subpar. Additionally, Vancouver doesn't have much for, well, elite things. New York is vastly better for a wealthy person. Same with London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Paris, and lesser known cities who actually court wealthy tourism.

I don't know many wealthy people who stay in Vancouver. I know a few who use it as an anchor of sorts cause they were born here but they all live in very different parts of the world from Czech to Singapore.

You hang out with the wrong crowds. Trust me, the wealthy are in Vancouver. You just need to look at the parking floor my spot is on in my building in Downtown Vancouver, there is like 5 Rolls Royce's, the electric Lambo Aventador, a Bugatti Veyron, etc. I don't have a car by the way as I'm an awful driver and always scared whenever I'm borrowing a car and driving down there of hitting one of the cars.

EDIT - This guarantee is from someone who has lived in Tokyo, Hong Kong, currently living in London, and also lived in SF.

But Tabris, you still live in Vancouver? I thought you moved to London

Yeah I'm in London now, but heading back to Vancouver in a month. I was just here for 3 months while working international deals. Taking 2 weeks PTO to spend in Italy before I head back.
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
Yeah I'm in London now, but heading back to Vancouver in a month. I was just here for 3 months while working international deals. Taking 2 weeks PTO to spend in Italy before I head back.

London is genuinely an amazing city. I'm awed everytime I go.

I haven't been to SF and NYC yet (or Toronto/Montreal), but most American/Canadian cities I've been too haven't been that impressive compared to European/South American cities

Probably will go to NYC and Montreal next year
 
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