Is VR dead for now?

[afrodubs]

Listen, if you can afford it get it. Because it's just like being inside the games you play. The game world becomes your world while the headset is on, and you interact with it naturally and physically. It's great but it's early so it isn't perfect, yet.

If you can't afford it then quit moaning about it and just wait until you either want in and can afford it, or move the feck on, and continue playing games as you do.

If you had it and liked it but had issues with the software/hardware then see above, move the feck on and let people enjoy current VR and talk about it with eachother and interested parties, while you do you. You'll be able to get updated hardware in the future. As long as a potential future market isn't scared off by FUD and misinformation.

If you liked it but suffered from motion sickness however. That's unfortunate, but you can work through it and acclimate, or try again with hardware.

You misunderstand me. I don't dislike it at all. It's just a long way until it's the next step of gaming. There's a lot that needs to be improved.

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Oh ok, yeah I agree. It's not perfect, but it's good

 

[Deleted member 15538]

My psvr is waiting in the closet for that Miyazaki FROM exclusive now really.
I've tried most stuff and everyone should be able to experience it at least once.

 

[Border]

I was listening through my backlog of Idle Thumbs episodes the other day and thought they summed up the problem with VR pretty succinctly:

The audience for VR will always be a subset of gaming enthusiasts. It isn't going to capture a more a casual gaming market, or a non-gaming market.

Therefore, developers will choose to concentrate on the larger, broader audience that doesn't buy a headset.

 

[Tigress]

I think at the end of the day that's what's crystallizing to me whats "killing" VR. Putting on a headset, the wires and all that.

It's really really easy to sit down, unencumbered, and play a game on a TV. I think this is why traditional games are winning right now. Also, as a side benefit, anyone can watch.

A TV is also "sort of" VR anyway in my book. It's basically a 3D window to a world. So it sort of offers many of the same benefits of VR anyway.

Even if they get VR down to completely wireless and light glasses you put on your face, I'm not 1000% convinced it would win out. That's still a markedly different experience.

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A tv is not sort of vr. Neither is 3D tv. You really aren't getting the same experience. Especially if you are playing a made for vr game. Do I take my hand and pick things up on a tv? Do I aim with my hands and eye and not a moving cursor with tv? Do I swing that sword with tv? Do I interact with things with my own hands rather than a cursor?

If you think vr and tv are the same, I question if you've ever even used vr, especially anything more than the cheap off the shelf for your smartphone stuff.

 

[afrodubs]

I was listening through my backlog of Idle Thumbs episodes the other day and thought they summed up the problem with VR pretty succinctly:

The audience for VR will always be a subset of gaming enthusiasts. It isn't going to capture a more a casual gaming market, or a non-gaming market.

Therefore, developers will choose to concentrate on the larger, broader audience that doesn't buy a headset.

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Personally speaking. I don't need it to become mainstream. I've been gaming since the 80s so my hobby has mostly been niche up until the last decade or so.

The EAs and the studios that prioritize returns will do as you say, and I won't miss these games or I'll just play them flat screen. The Devs that want to learn new things, embrace new tech, innovate and create new mechanics etc.... You know where they'll be. There already there and by most accounts they are excited by it.

TL:DR
The problem you speak of is overstated....

For someone who tried and disliked VR you spend a lot of time in these threads. You sure you aren't even a little bit invested? You remind me of someone from the PSVR sub Reddit. He has just purchased PCVR and has stopped being down on VR now, complete 180. Maybe you should try that?

 

[cakefoo]

I was listening through my backlog of Idle Thumbs episodes the other day and thought they summed up the problem with VR pretty succinctly:

The audience for VR will always be a subset of gaming enthusiasts. It isn't going to capture a more a casual gaming market, or a non-gaming market.

Therefore, developers will choose to concentrate on the larger, broader audience that doesn't buy a headset.

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You didn't provide the source so... 5 minutes in: https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/11762-idle-thumbs-bonus-ruination-online-september-2017/

His argument? He doesn't think non-gamers will buy a VR-ready PC/VR-ready console to play VR games. As if that's the only way to pipe VR into the mainstream spotlight.

VR's benefits outside of gaming are already apparent, but with a mainstream-friendly device at an appropriate price, the discovery of those benefits is going to increase. Gaming and gaming machines won't always be the primary focus/prerequisite to mainstream consumer adoption.

TL/DR: Podcast host who understands very little about VR.

 

[Border]

For someone who tried and disliked VR you spend a lot of time in these threads. You sure you aren't even a little bit invested? You remind me of someone from the PSVR sub Reddit. He has just purchased PCVR and has stopped being down on VR now, complete 180. Maybe you should try that?

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I had a lot of fun with Wipeout when it went on sale this summer. I am still waiting on Tetris Effect, and hoping that Atari re-integrates VR into Tempest 4K. Psychedelic arcade titles are the area where VR seems to really shine, and they can be made at a budget that allows for them to do okay commercially.

My PC could probably power a Vive or Oculus, but my problem is the same as many people's: my desktop is in my bedroom. I don't have any space in there for room scale VR experiences, so I have to wait for a wireless headset that can work through walls.

VR's benefits outside of gaming are already apparent, but with a mainstream-friendly device at an appropriate price, the discovery of those benefits is going to increase. Gaming and gaming machines won't always be the primary focus/prerequisite to mainstream consumer adoption.

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What are the "already apparent" benefits of VR beyond games? Other than pornography, I'm not sure what applications are going to drive consumer interest in relatively expensive VR setups.

For at least a brief period, Valve was very excited and upbeat about VR. It will be interesting to see how the Campo Santo/Idle Thumbs crew integrates into that culture, given their somewhat inherent skepticism.

 

[Deleted member 984]

What are the "already apparent" benefits of VR beyond games? Other than pornography, I'm not sure what applications are going to drive consumer interest in relatively expensive VR setups.

For at least a brief period, Valve was very excited and upbeat about VR. It will be interesting to see how the Campo Santo/Idle Thumbs crew integrates into that culture, given their somewhat inherent skepticism.

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Storytelling. VR is the only medium that can deliver story through experiential methods, people can still watch those moments without a VR headset but can't experience it like they can in the headset, so far VR games have played upon that aspect but haven't yet put all the aspects together in a cohesive way. When done correctly that aspect alone means there will be a new form of immersive interactive entertainment that doesn't rely on traditional gameplay mechanics and built around what isn't possible to convey in other mediums. As film is also catching up with using VR likely see a convergence of the two at some point (Otoy are a company I know of that are playing with digital light fields and is interesting). Transference by Ubisoft looks like an early attempt at this and has my attention.

Shopping. This is what Amazon played about with recently.

Community/social media type applications. Facebook showed a bit of what they were experimenting with this at their Oculus connect 3 & 4 events (some of which is already released). We have already seen applications on PCVR where you can watch a movie or do split-screen gaming with others like they are on a couch sitting next to you. Also there are applications like Rec Room where you can create and hang out and play.

Operating systems. Oculus seems to be the most active in achieving this and is huge potential there.

"Technodelics". Technology-induced altered states. Rez is slightly like this as is Thumper at times but with content like SoundSelf the intention is to try imitate acid trips or deep meditation without dealing with drugs.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

Strange question. VR is still around, it hasn't gone anywhere. People are still playing VR and enjoying it, there are new games released every week / month.

People need to get the "VR is dead" thing out their head, just because it's a smaller market, doesn't mean it's dead.

Kinda like 3D, it's a smaller audience but 3D movies are still releasing in cinema and still coming out on blu-ray every week / month.

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Not a great analogy, as 3D at home is basically dead. Does any manufacturer even make a 3D tv anymore? Pretty sure the last model was made in 2016.

 

[Nzyme32]

Not a great analogy, as 3D at home is basically dead. Does any manufacturer even make a 3D tv anymore? Pretty sure the last model was made in 2016.

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Because 3D TVs / displays of that nature fundamentally are flawed. There is nothing further to do with it. Implementation is poor, content is not enhanced in a meaningful way and few and far between - hence very few vendors are producing more of them and the same with the content.

Meanwhile, this isn't true at all for VR at the high end on PC and the low end (standalone / mobile). As far as PC goes, tons of work is going into VR applications, gaming and the next generation of headset. They will STILL be expensive, and it will STILL take many years for production and market to scale to a point where the cost is reduced to something "mainstream" affordable - - yet this is exactly as was expected by the PC VR vendors and engine providers. VR is still going strong and will remain an ever growing niche for years till things scale to more ideal technologies at lower prices

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Not a great analogy, as 3D at home is basically dead. Does any manufacturer even make a 3D tv anymore? Pretty sure the last model was made in 2016.

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Us 3D fans are still out there, we didn't all die lol we are just a much smaller audience, similar to VR.

They still make some 3D TV's, just select models now, compared to most TV's a few years ago. 3D blu-ray's still come out every week in the UK and Europe, all the latest big movies have 3D blu-ray's over here. It's more dead in America though and most people end up importing from over here if they want a 3D blu-ray.

 

[TheMan]

My interest has waned significantly. If firewall zero hour is a disappointment, I'll seriouslt consider selling my psvr so I can get a new video card

 

[jroc74]

You didn't provide the source so... 5 minutes in: https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/11762-idle-thumbs-bonus-ruination-online-september-2017/

His argument? He doesn't think non-gamers will buy a VR-ready PC/VR-ready console to play VR games. As if that's the only way to pipe VR into the mainstream spotlight.

VR's benefits outside of gaming are already apparent, but with a mainstream-friendly device at an appropriate price, the discovery of those benefits is going to increase. Gaming and gaming machines won't always be the primary focus/prerequisite to mainstream consumer adoption.

TL/DR: Podcast host who understands very little about VR.

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I agree.

Ppl say is VR dead, and then overlook mobile. I wonder how many newspaper companies have a VR section..One I worked at had one, mainly for mobile phones but still.

Price is what's going to help adoption for consoles, PC. For mobile, it's already mainstream.

Just look at how many cheap VR headsets for mobile are out.

 

[cakefoo]

Psychedelic arcade titles are the area where VR seems to really shine.

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Not denying that VR excels there, but it also excels at a far more eclectic range of software, most of which requires motion controls on a level that PSVR can't approximate. The top-selling VR games on Steam reflect this demand and the variety of applications VR has been able to prove itself in. It's just a niche right now, the PCVR experience, but once better console VR solutions come, more attention is going to be on the tech's interactive potentials.

For at least a brief period, Valve was very excited and upbeat about VR. It will be interesting to see how the Campo Santo/Idle Thumbs crew integrates into that culture, given their somewhat inherent skepticism.

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Valve's New Site Affirms Role of VR in Company's Future, Teases "Top secret" Games

 

[shaneo632]

The summer is the absolute shits for VR. I've barely played my PSVR the last 2 months because we've had an insane heat wave in the UK and I just can't do it.

 

[borges]

I was listening through my backlog of Idle Thumbs episodes the other day and thought they summed up the problem with VR pretty succinctly:

The audience for VR will always be a subset of gaming enthusiasts. It isn't going to capture a more a casual gaming market, or a non-gaming market.

Therefore, developers will choose to concentrate on the larger, broader audience that doesn't buy a headset.

Click to shrink...

Wait for an affordable wireless 8k / 120fps+ device, and the thing will become massive immediately. Its just a matter of time.

 

[potentialtodisplease]

Not a great analogy, as 3D at home is basically dead. Does any manufacturer even make a 3D tv anymore? Pretty sure the last model was made in 2016.

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Well thank god the amazing Pixar and Disney collections can be played on increasingly better VR headsets. We don't need 3D TVs for 3D movies anymore. All we need is a 4K VR set and 3D TVs are absolutely obsolete. My PSVR plays 3D films quite well honestly.

 

[potentialtodisplease]

Wait for an affordable wireless 8k / 120fps+ device, and the thing will become massive immediately. Its just a matter of time.

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I agree. When you show kids GTA 7 or whatever in VR it will be hard to get them back. I'm not saying it will become massive, but people here really cannot see the forest from the trees. VR is going to be huge once immersion gets to 4K per eye. It will be like playing a slightly off real life game. Hell, we might be in VR ourselves :)

 

[cakefoo]

I agree. When you show kids GTA 7 or whatever in VR it will be hard to get them back. I'm not saying it will become massive, but people here really cannot see the forest from the trees. VR is going to be huge once immersion gets to 4K per eye. It will be like playing a slightly off real life game. Hell, we might be in VR ourselves :)

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Where do you rank "massive" and "huge" in terms of real numbers?

More important than 4K per eye, I feel a gaming VR headset needs to have other improvements-

External cameras to remove the isolation factor and need for external sensors
Wireless built-in
Eyetracking and foveated rendering to ensure the best performance/fidelity
It also needs to come from one of the big guys to ensure backwards compatibility with the current library, where primarily only Vive and Rift owners can count on official support for the majority of games.

I believe the next PCVR headsets from Oculus/HTC could meet all of those requirements within a few years, if everyone works together.

Beyond the mainstream gamer, the real mainstream doesn't need as high a resolution or a tethered PC/console- but they'll need external cameras and inside-out tracking, and they'll need 6DOF standalone units in both Android and Apple flavors to prevent being disconnected from their other devices, and they need plenty of tools and apps for productivity, creativity, social, and education. For that to happen I think the most important part is already in play- gaining Apple and Google's interest. There are already 6DOF standalone headsets for $4-600, but they lack 6DOF handtracking and compelling software, even by a VR fanatic's standards. We'll get there in 5 years if Apple and Google want to. edit: I think Google will go there first, because they already have plenty to show for their VR research.

 

[potentialtodisplease]

Where do you rank "massive" and "huge" in terms of real numbers?

More important than 4K per eye, I feel a gaming VR headset needs to have other improvements-

External cameras to remove the isolation factor and need for external sensors
Wireless built-in
Eyetracking and foveated rendering to ensure the best performance/fidelity
It also needs to come from one of the big guys to ensure backwards compatibility with the current library, where primarily only Vive and Rift owners can count on official support for the majority of games.

I believe the next PCVR headsets from Oculus/HTC could meet all of those requirements within a few years, if everyone works together.

Beyond the mainstream gamer, the real mainstream doesn't need as high a resolution or a tethered PC/console- but they'll need external cameras and inside-out tracking, and they'll need 6DOF standalone units in both Android and Apple flavors to prevent being disconnected from their other devices, and they need plenty of tools and apps for productivity, creativity, social, and education. For that to happen I think the most important part is already in play- gaining Apple and Google's interest. There are already 6DOF standalone headsets for $4-600, but they lack 6DOF handtracking and compelling software, even by a VR fanatic's standards. We'll get there in 5 years if Apple and Google want to. edit: I think Google will go there first, because they already have plenty to show for their VR research.

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Well all of that for sure, but I don't think wireless is needed. What is needed is that killer app like GTA5, but in VR that will generate that emotion when truly doing something new. It has to blow people's minds, and the biggest thing right now preventing that is graphics no doubt about it. Obviously, more tracking and better controls are not too far behind, but when people finally see an open world in VR that is near photorealistic they are going to shit. It has to be comfortable, and we need more, which is why I put it out at 5-7 years before it starts hitting that mainstream success.

It certainly could take a while, but it will come at some point no doubt. People love fantasy. Always have. When fantasy becomes near to a truly realistic experience, word of mouth will spread more.

My prediction is that truly photorealistic games like NBA 2K and Madden will one day be GIGANTIC in VR, also helping to solidfy mainstream success. They will help sell the experience, but those games are yet to be created. Hurdles to overcome with controls and immersion. But it will happen. And then on down the line...

Of course I bet this will also incite a lot of discussion again about violence in games. All it will take is a true VR photorealistic shooter to do it. Devs will have to tread carefully I think beginning in about 5 years.

I guarantee within about ten years we will have a Madden/2K game in VR that sells shitloads. It will take 6-8 years just to get mainstream power support for those things in VR. And then another 4-5 probably to get the controls, immersion, and polish. I can't see it going much beyond that timeframe unless something goes wrong.