Isn't it obvious why Mother 3 hasn't been localized in the west?

[We_care_a_lot]

Some of the games elements are...questionable.

And by questionable I mean blatantly racist and homophobic. The character Reggie is straight up just weird blackface shit and the Magypsies well, just their name alone is offensive but also they are one of the worst homophobic and transphobic stereotypes I've ever seen in a videogame.

I'm only delving into this game now but yikes, what on earth is nintendo supposed to do with this stuff? Alter it? change the sprites? Pretty sure the magypsies would have to be completely removed or heavily altered and Nintendo probably just doesn't want to to deal with it.

I had no idea this sort of stuff was in the game, doesn't this seem like a deal breaker to yall?

 

[Yata]

It is obvious. I feel like a lot of fans conveniently forget it. The game would need to be severely changed if it ever came here.

 

[Berordn]

it's been discussed to death, the magypsies especially

but those are also unofficial translations and it's not impossible to localize out. they're important characters, but there's nothing that mandates their name and appearances be explicitly the same. a localization is going to be significant work for a game like mother 3 regardless, and it's the kind of thing that could be worked out in the event they ever do it.

the simple fact is we're not getting the GBA game, but if they ever revisit the series in the forms of remakes, it's possible.

 

[Lobster Roll]

I have confidence that Nintendo can both localize the game and also replace these moments in the game with non-problematic changes. They have a history of releasing different versions of games in different regions.

 

[StraySheep]

Strictly from a consumer standpoint, I would say it isn't a deal breaker and I would have it kept. Let it be a product of its time that we can criticize rather than struggle to talk around it.

But on the otherhand I was kinda happy Atlus West did what they could with Persona 5. So I guess I'm just inconsistent.

 

[Derachi]

I knew about the Magypsies but I didn't know about Reggie...

Maybe at this point we should hope for a Mother 3 remake instead of a localized release?

 

[StraySheep]

It is obvious. I feel like a lot of fans conveniently forget it. The game would need to be severely changed if it ever came here.

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I bet the majority of people who want it localized don't even know, since it stands to reason they have never played the game. I only learned about it in the last Era thread about this.

 

[GJ]

There's a difference between a localization and a translation. A localization would get rid of this stuff and make it suitable for Western markets. Of course people would cry about censorship and stuff, but if that means the game could get a release in the West that way I'd gladly take it. Most people who haven't been following the game for years probably wouldn't know or care if stuff like that got changed.

 

[Faenix1]

Talking about an official Mother 3 translation, or remake, always seems weird to me since they wont even bring Earthbound to the Switch. They never showered they cared or even knew what to do with the IP.
(I was so pumped to buy it before they announced it was only for the NEW 3DS)

 

[Dr.Osiris]

Did mother 3 come out for europe? If so oof...

 

[Xterrian]

I could see it being a problem if they don't change any of those elements.

They definitely could change them though. Even if it requires a bit of work, I doubt it would affect their profits all that much. Even as niche as mother is, the hardcore fanbase and the general hype around Nintendo's equivalent to Half Life 3 will ensure decent success and incredible pr.

Spoiler

and tbh the $15 or so they'd charge for it would help as well

 

[We_care_a_lot]

I really don't know if this can be fixed. yes they could remake it and remove those elements but I'm reading through an older thread now with some even worse stuff and honestly that shit is CURSEDDDDDD lol. it would be like remodeling a house where a bunch of people were murdered. Personally I think I might just forget the game exists. An overreaction? Maybe but it's pretty darn bad. Even for a japanese game, even for 2006 that is pretty bad.

Also sorry if this has been discussed to death, I actually can't believe I wasn't aware of this until now

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Nintendo can't win with this game; --They either remove/change the controversial elements and people get pissed over the changes, or they release as it is and they get a bad press about it.

 

[Galava]

The longest exclusivity deal in history. I will never forgive the japanese!

A remake would be in order to adapt it I guess, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Tohsaka]

Yes it's been discussed at length whenever people ask why it never got localized. I played the fan translation and the quality was was great, so I don't have any desire to play an official localization that wouldn't be any better and would have to be changed anyway.

 

[entremet]

Did mother 3 come out for europe? If so oof...

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No.

 

[PersianPrince]

From what I've read (and I've tried to avoid spoilers for all these years) that there are a lot of troubling elements in Mother 3 that I would be supportive of being changed/removed/improved. I'm not okay with it, but NOA has the opportunity to right these wrongs. Especially since it looks like none of it will drastically change the plot.

 

[Deleted member 2102]

There are absolutely parts of Mother 3 that need would updating. I'm pretty charitable in assuming that these were genuine efforts at representation. In Mother 2, Jeff's roommate Tony was written to be gay. Itoi, the writer, has gone on record about this. Source.

Itoi: Well, for example, there's a gay person in MOTHER 2. A really passionate friend who lives in an England-like place. I designed him to be a gay child. In a normal, real-life society, there are gay children, and I have many gay friends as well. So I thought it would be nice to add one in the game, too.

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It would be to the game's benefit that these parts were updated. It's dissonant to the narrative of Mother 3 to have characters with blackface design tropes, or nonbinary characters who are presented with transphobic tropes.

 

[julia crawford]

I mean that shit is bad but i feel like saying this is the reason Nintendo wouldn't do it, especially back when it first released, probably gives them more credit than they're due.

 

[lobdale]

Yes it's been discussed at length whenever people ask why it never got localized. I played the fan translation and the quality was was great, so I don't have any desire to play an official localization that wouldn't be any better and would have to be changed anyway.

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This is pretty much where I'm at. The fan localization was so good that it is irrelevant to me if it gets an official release at this point. I'd take it, but who needs it?

 

[Dolce]

As a non-binary person, which is what magypsies seem to be, I still like them. It's pretty rare to get any kind of non-binary representation in anything. That Itoi bothered to depict anything resembling us at all means a lot to me.

I'd consider Mother 3 in general pretty important, with the magypsies, as important to the evolution of how I should feel about myself and self identity.

 

[Deleted member 33057]

I've always thought a full on remake was likelier compared to a simple localization because of this. Still not very likely though.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I'm only delving into this game now but yikes, what on earth is nintendo supposed to do with this stuff? Alter it? change the sprites? Pretty sure the magypsies would have to be completely removed or heavily altered and Nintendo probably just doesn't want to to deal with it.

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Mmh, yes? I don't see why they shouldn't or couldn't

 

[justiceiro]

Oh, it all makes sense now... Yeah, not worth the hassle for sure.

 

[Dyle]

None of it would be particularly difficult to fix if they wanted to localize it, just change so names, alter some sprites, and redo a handful of conversations. The fan translation stuck pretty closely to the original while an official translation would take bigger liberties. The bigger issue is that Nintendo doesn't want to localize or rerelease it at all.

 

[Citizen Rizer]

It's been 15 years. That seems like enough time for Nintendo to figure out a solution if they wanted to. Earthbound is a blip compared to their other franchises so they just don't care.

 

[Deleted member 42484]

Just chiming in that a full-on claymation remake of Earthbound with co-operative play (P1 controls the camera in the overworld, but other 3 characters can roam freely. Battles are turn-based but fully animated) is my dream game.

I love the music, style, and setting of Earthbound and I think it's a unique brand of JRPG that would do quite well in the modern landscape.

I never understood Nintendo's apathy for this franchise.

 

[UltraGashInferno]

Games used to get total conversions in loc all the time.

That shitty ps1 fighter VS. is somehow a version of the incredible game Fighters Impact. They can work around this.

 

[Nairume]

The bigger issue is that Nintendo doesn't want to localize or rerelease it at all.

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Them wanting to is likely different from them wanting to bother with it.

Insider information made it sound like they wanted to and likely were in the process of it at various points, but encounter something that caused them to back off.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Nintendo can't win with this game; --They either remove/change the controversial elements and people get pissed over the changes, or they release as it is and they get a bad press about it.

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They chose to make a game with all this offensive shit in the first place. You shouldn't play it off like they are the victim of circumstance lol.

 

[808s & Villainy]

Oh, it all makes sense now... Yeah, not worth the hassle for sure.

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Tons of localized games have script and visual changes. That's part of the localization process. It's not really a "hassle" because it's nothing new or unique to this

Nintendo can't win with this game; --They either remove/change the controversial elements and people get pissed over the changes, or they release as it is and they get a bad press about it.

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They change stuff all the time. A few people getting pissed is a non-issue

 

[Nairume]

Tons of localized games have script and visual changes. That's part of the localization process. It's not really a "hassle" because it's nothing new or unique to this

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Yeah, the issue isn't really a matter of it being a hassle, but whether or not the hassle is going to be worth it.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

They chose to make a game with all this offensive shit in the first place. You shouldn't play it off like they are the victim of circumstance lol.

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Of course; This stuff wasn't okay in 2006 either;

but now, more than ever, they wouldn't bring it back.

 

[Kinsei]

Reggie's sprite absolutely needs to be changed, the Magypsies need a different name, and some scenes like the one where Lucas learns to use PSI needs to be rewritten.

The Magypsies as a whole are far from transphobic though. They could have been handled better for sure, but there's a great story arc there about accepting yourself and the dangers of self hatred.

 

[Border]

Nintendo has a long and storied history of changing games when they are localized for America.

If they wanted to publish Mother 3, they would do it with some alterations. The problem is that they just don't want to publish Mother 3.

 

[Yata]

I can't even think of a magypsie sprite redraw that would not piss people off and make Nintendo look good. Has any fan attempted to redesign them?

 

[Weiss]

No matter how you slice it the Magypsies won't fly today, like for god's sake Lucas awakening his PSI abilities is a scene where the joke is that he's getting raped in a hot spring by Ionia.

 

[JustJavi]

Nintendo can't win with this game. No matter what they do, they are gonna piss off a huge portion of their fan base. No wonder it hasn't been localized.

 

[Berordn]

The Magypsies as a whole are far from transphobic though. They could have been handled better for sure, but there's a great story arc there about accepting yourself and the dangers of self hatred.

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this is kind of where i'm at with it. you don't need to do much to bring the magypsies to a pretty good place. the designs are a bit of an unfortunate stereotype but simple redesigns and changing the razor mementos to something else would be 95% of the changes needed

the scene with ionia and the hot spring is honestly the biggest issue in the game outside of that and considering it cuts to text on a black screen you can easily change that

 

[justiceiro]

Tons of localized games have script and visual changes. That's part of the localization process. It's not really a "hassle" because it's nothing new or unique to this


They change stuff all the time. A few people getting pissed is a non-issue

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The last time they tried that with the franchise with the weird this game smell franchises, it flew right in their faces. Nintendo moved of this franchise. The creator moved on. But even with the changes, you can be sure they will be blasted about how the original was, because in this day and age, everything is digged up.

And all that for what? For selling a game that will be outrageous expensive if it's sold above $10?

 

[Neoxon]

I'm pretty sure most know that's why Mother 3 was never localized. But yeah, I don't blame Nintendo for not wanting to touch it with a 10ft pole.

 

[Calamari41]

Mmh, yes? I don't see why they shouldn't or couldn't

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I don't know, it's pretty critical to the plot

Spoiler: Full Mother 3 Plot Spoilers

The fact that Fassad was one of them, and betrayed them, and presumably is the reason Porky even knows about the needles and the dragon. This all comes as a surprise and is a big plot twist late in the game because Fassad looks so different compared to them that the consideration never even enters your mind. But it makes sense looking back how he is able to look so different because the Magypsies are presented right or wrong as essentially drag queens, and Fassad has simply stopped dressing in drag. If you for example made them into standard fantasy fairies or something, like Lucas sees in his hallucination, then you'd have to have Fassad undergo some kind of body altering after he leaves them... which isn't a problem or anything, but he already does exactly that halfway through the game, so you'd be taking the impact out of that existing plot point.

Obviously you can change offensive lines and make some alterations to things that may cause offense, but you can't change fundamentally who they are without compromising important aspects of the plot.

 

[spman2099]

Nintendo can't win with this game; --They either remove/change the controversial elements and people get pissed over the changes, or they release as it is and they get a bad press about it.

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I don't feel like that is particularly accurate. A few weirdos and bigots would be upset if the game released with the appropriate changes, but the mass majority would praise that decision.

I do get why you would feel like it isn't worth porting though. I understand why someone may feel pretty uncomfortable about a game that has that content.

Personally, I think they should port it, but they should also completely reshape those elements. Maybe even have the porting process done by people who are especially sensitive to the offending material (while giving them carte blanche to fix these elements).

 

[Berordn]

I don't know, it's pretty critical to the plot

Spoiler: Full Mother 3 Plot Spoilers

The fact that Fassad was one of them, and betrayed them, and presumably is the reason Porky even knows about the needles and the dragon. This all comes as a surprise and is a big plot twist late in the game because Fassad looks so different compared to them that the consideration never even enters your mind. But it makes sense looking back how he is able to look so different because the Magypsies are presented right or wrong as essentially drag queens, and Fassad has simply stopped dressing in drag. If you for example made them into standard fantasy fairies or something, like Lucas sees in his hallucination, then you'd have to have Fassad undergo some kind of body altering after he leaves them... which isn't a problem or anything, but he already does exactly that halfway through the game, so you'd be taking the impact out of that existing plot point.

Obviously you can change offensive lines and make some alterations to things that may cause offense, but you can't change fundamentally who they are without compromising important aspects of the plot.

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i think the main point is that people aren't talking about removing the non-binary/trans coding from them, you really can't (nor shouldn't) for the reasons you mention.

but there's no reason they have to be so explicitly in drag. there's a lot of ways you could represent them as non-binary and make them stand out without having to resort to the problematic tropes

the magypsies (with a better name) could actually be really strong trans representation. they just resorted to some unfortunate visual shorthand that could be done way better

 

[Weiss]

I don't feel like that is particularly accurate. A few weirdos and bigots would be upset if the game released with the appropriate changes, but the mass majority would praise that decision.

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I think this is true, the problem is proving it to a fairly conservatively (not politically) minded company when it comes to releasing games.

They need Mother 3 to sell X amount of copies to be worth it, and right from the get go they're changing something that will alienate potential customers (who are, of course, assholes who will cry censorship) and need a certain amount of new fans to replace them.

 

[Ushojax]

Nintendo has a long and storied history of changing games when they are localized for America.

If they wanted to publish Mother 3, they would do it with some alterations. The problem is that they just don't want to publish Mother 3.

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I have no doubt that when they referenced Mother 3 in that E3 video years ago, it was close to happening. They released Mother 1 on Wii U and according to some insiders they were working on Mother 3 but NoA/NoE had too many issues with content and it was shelved.

I think this is true, the problem is proving it to a fairly conservatively (not politically) minded company when it comes to releasing games.

They need Mother 3 to sell X amount of copies to be worth it, and right from the get go they're changing something that will alienate potential customers (who are, of course, assholes who will cry censorship) and need a certain amount of new fans to replace them.

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Making the changes would mean Nintendo admitting that the original version had racist, homophobic and transphobic content. I just don't think Nintendo want to go anywhere near it, as you say they are incredibly conservative and won't want to get into any culture wars shit.

 

[B. Spaceman]

Man, I never understand when the okama type of character is bad or not... Or maybe is always bad? I wonder what you guys think about the okamas in One Piece

 

[Weiss]

I have no doubt that when they referenced Mother 3 in that E3 video years ago, it was close to happening. They released Mother 1 on Wii U and according to some insiders they were working on Mother 3 but NoA/NoE had too many issues with content and it was shelved.



Making the changes would mean Nintendo admitting that the original version had racist, homophobic and transphobic content. I just don't think Nintendo want to go anywhere near it, as you say they are incredibly conservative and won't want to get into any culture wars shit.

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That's actually a good point. Changing it now means admitting they published a game that had it in the first place.

 

[AGoodODST]

Yeah it really is awful.

Isn't there the scene which implies one of the magypies is sexually abusing Lucas as well? I might be misremembering but they go into a tent or a pool together or something to learn magic and it's played for laughs? Maybe it was the translation I played put it in a different context. It's been a while.

 

[Calamari41]

i think the main point is that people aren't talking about removing the non-binary/trans coding from them, you really can't (nor shouldn't) for the reasons you mention.

but there's no reason they have to be so explicitly in drag. there's a lot of ways you could represent them as non-binary and make them stand out without having to resort to the problematic tropes

the magypsies (with a better name) could actually be really strong trans representation. they just resorted to some unfortunate visual shorthand that could be done way better

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I totally hear you, and you're fundamentally right, but for the reasons I have in my spoiler you do need to do something to make it clear to the audience what the situation is. Not saying it can't be done, and I haven't thought it through too deeply to come up with solutions, but it is something that would have to be done and done right. We see what they decided to do to make the situation clear back when this came out, and it is definitely not subtle. The question is if it's worth it to Nintendo to revamp them without compromising the plot issues I mentioned.