• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
Shadow of the Colossus' game play basically boils down to figuring out the means to get to a vital spot, the puzzle, and then actually getting to the spot, which is a mix of crawling and jumping, platforming. The sword usage is either puzzle oriented (hitting the bones on the thunder colossi's head to steer it) or stabbing a colossi's vital spot (which is basically the equivalent of pushing a button). There is no slashing, parrying, or anything that would make the most simple sword fighting game. For example some very simple sword fighting games are the Zelda's, but you are doing a combination of slashing/stabbing/jumping, while Colossus is just stabbing vital spots for damage. The colossi have the context of a fight, but you are not actually fighting as much are you are solving a puzzle. They are more complex versions of jumping and running across platforms to prevent taking damage or getting knocked off. Even the bow operates in a similar vain, you shoot to pop air sacs so it gets closer to the ground or the eyes so it crashes into the wall (ie it is a puzzle mechanic) or you get a colossi's attention so you can jump on it (platforming).

Essentially, it is like taking out the enemies in Uncharted, only having the traversal with the occasional gun usage for getting through areas, yet still calling it a third-person shooter.

The adventure might come from the open world, but it is so empty that it is basically just a collection of independent levels spread out over an area. It makes for a beautiful and interesting way to handle levels, but each colossi is still essentially separated like a level. If a 2D Mario had a flat overworld with pipes to each world throughout instead of the classic map, it would not be an adventure game since the actual game are the levels.

I do understand that the action-adventure label is easier to market off of, this is purely from a stance of what best describes the game. Also, labels are important, we are reliant on them as giant blobs of information are hard to impossible to gain insight from. They may never be 100% correct, but having the most accurate possible has use.
 

Rbrogue

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
273
I played SotC for the first time when the remake came out and my feelings were the same. Good game but after one or two colossi I realized it was ultimately a puzzle game and not a hack and slash like I was expecting.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
it's an RPG.

You play the role of Wander. It has RPG Mechanics. It's focused on story and character development.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
my brain thinks you have a fair point, but my heart completely disagrees.

like for the experience of the game, how it feels to play it and how i would ever describe it to someone, "Action/Adventure" definitely fits more.
 

shoemasta

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,031
Action adventure is used to classify almost any video game that doesn't fall squarely into a single, accepted genre. So while its not really action adventure, its also not really puzzle platformer.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,969
I remember a magazine saying it's uncategorisable back in the day and it stuck with me since.
 

DarkFlame92

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,656
It certainly feels like an adventure,so it can be labeled an adventure game. I wouldn't call it action game though
 

Deleted member 7450

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,842
They are still useful, liked I argued in my last two sentences
I know OP, but you're also arguing "why we use this label instead of this one?"

Why? Because convenience.
You tell someone "you fight giant bosses" and the generic "action/adventure" label is more convenient to explain.

Really diving into mechanics and intricacies aren't convenient in a day to day conversation, that is reserved to a more appropriate environment.

So that is why. Labels in gaming are generic because convenience for a day to day conversation/consumer advice.

And that is why I think it is crap.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Adventure/puzzle game sounds good. If someone is looking for that kind of experience, describing the game that way would be fair and give people a good idea of what they're getting into. I remember seeing someone disappointed by the game expecting something more action-focused, so describing it as merely "action/adventure" wouldn't be enough.

Agreed, we need to do less of trying to put boundaries on things.

"These games are free spirits, man! They're alive! Only they can define themselves!"

Really diving into mechanics and intricacies aren't convenient in a day to day conversation, that is reserved to a more appropriate environment.

So that is why. Labels in gaming are generic because convenience for a day to day conversation/consumer advice.

If it's inconvenient to "really dive into mechanics and intricacies," then wouldn't an equally short, yet more specific label be convenient?

Why complain about how generic labels are, then push against someone trying to assign a more appropriate label to the game?
 

callmeCata

Member
Oct 27, 2017
386
Maybe it is labeled as action adventure since puzzle/platformer kinda invokes a feeling of confined levels and thinking out solutions slowly. Sotc is more open with more present danger and set piece moments?

The game is definitely between the two labels imo.
 

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,470
For me, it's Zelda minus the constant combat, inventory/item management, and quests. A more focus type of action adventure game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
You're not wrong, but I would never recommend Shadow of the Colossus to someone looking for a puzzle game, or a platformer. I would, however, easily recommend Shadow of the Colossus to someone who loves Uncharted and never played it.

It may not be an exact definition based on the mechanics available, but I feel like "things that you may also enjoy" is a much more important recommendation than just listing mechanics.

It is a cinematic, story-driven game featuring battles against giant creatures to achieve a certain goal. It's placed in an open world, but the progression is linear. I feel like "action-adventure" is a better way to describe it. These elements are much more important reasons why people love it than it having puzzle elements or platforming elements. You remove the puzzle-like combat and replace it with another style of combat, the same people will largely love it just as much. You keep all the puzzles and remove the story, the music or any aspect of the presentation, and suddenly it's a completely different experience.
 

wondermagenta

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,153
Cologne
Gonna quote the Extra Credits RPG episode and say that a genre description is less based on what specifically *happens* in a game but rather by what it makes you *feel*. Shadow of the Colossus is an epic adventure in a huge world, and the feeling of being in that world and taking down these majestic creatures is the entire point. I'd say the label action-adventure is as accurate as you're gonna get without making up new genre terms. I generally really dislike "action-adventure" as a descriptor because it's so incredibly unspecific, but we all know what it *means,* so it's accurate enough I feel.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,717
I here where your coming from and your logic makes sense. Where it breaks for me is that as an example, my gf likes puzzle games, she would hate SOTC. It's not slow paced, it requires input dexterity that she does not have and the controls are very loose and frustrating. You could call it a non-traditional puzzle game if you wanted to be cute about it and you might be right for doing so but it's just splitting hairs at some point.
 

Figments

Spencer’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,292
California
You make a compelling case, OP. I can see it both ways, however.

Also, the people straight up insinuating that genres are meaningless have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
 
OP
OP

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
my brain thinks you have a fair point, but my heart completely disagrees.

like for the experience of the game, how it feels to play it and how i would ever describe it to someone, "Action/Adventure" definitely fits more.
It is aesthetically heavy around an action adventure game, which caused me to hesitate while writing and aesthetics are easier to describe. Though at the end of the day (quite literally as its nighttime here), I went by mechanics, since the difference between another art form and a game will always be game mechanics.
 
OP
OP

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
You make a compelling case, OP. I can see it both ways, however.

Also, the people straight up insinuating that genres are meaningless have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
I can understand where they are coming from, like in statistics the results are meaningless, but you can still get insight. They are just stopping at the point where they cannot get 100% certainty, even though 100% certainty tends to be more difficult to attain than it is worth.
 

Deleted member 7450

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,842
Why complain about how generic labels are, then push against someone trying to assign a more appropriate label to the game?
I'm not posting against it?

I'm very much with the OP on this one.

But as you said "a more appropriate label" requires a better explanation. Take the average joe and try to explain why it need to be label "x" and not "y" and you get what I'm trying to say.

Generic labels and genres serve for that, to remove nuance, generalize ideas and boil then down so it can it reach wider appeal.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
RPG mechanics? I haven't played the game since 2005, but what exactly are you referring to here?? Not every game where you "play the role" of a character is an RPG... or else we could call Uncharted 4 an RPG lol.

Specifically, certain weapons have damage multipliers against certain things. That's an RPG Mechanic.

In the HD release, there's a shadowsword with a strange effect of increasing damage dealt while also decreasing health regeneration

Totally RPG mechanic right there
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,249
I do think you're technically correct but there are two important factors:

a) There is a certain critical mass of labeling, at which the game has already been labeled as something by so many, for so long that you can't just readily re-categorize.

b) The fact that the puzzles / platforms are anthropomorphic (or at least, beast-like) kind of does something to the perception which makes it into more a of "fight" - i.e: the meat and potatoes of the action genre.
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
Specifically, certain weapons have damage multipliers against certain things. That's an RPG Mechanic.

In the HD release, there's a shadowsword with a strange effect of increasing damage dealt while also decreasing health regeneration

Totally RPG mechanic right there
Wow it is a huge stretch to call the game an RPG just because there are two different swords lol. There is absolutely no character customization, no alternative playstyles, and really none of the gamely or design hallmarks that are intrinsic to the genre.

To use UC4 again, I preferred to stay mobile and use handguns, due to their lighter recoil and better maneuverability, whereas my brother preferred to stay undercover and use heavier automatic weapons. Choosing between different weapons is not a "RPG mechanic" and having these options doesn't make UC4 and RPG anymore than having two swords makes SOTC an RPG.
 

Lord Azrael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
it's an RPG.

You play the role of Wander. It has RPG Mechanics. It's focused on story and character development.

lmao No chance. If we go by this definition then any game where you play a character is an RPG. And how are story and character development in any way uniquely an RPG thing. Not that Shadow of the Colossus even has a focus either of those things in the first place.

Specifically, certain weapons have damage multipliers against certain things. That's an RPG Mechanic.

In the HD release, there's a shadowsword with a strange effect of increasing damage dealt while also decreasing health regeneration

Totally RPG mechanic right there

Literally all games where you deal damage have numbers and multipliers under the hood. How else do you expect developers to define when an enemy should die? This makes zero sense. And stuff like action games also has a variety of weapons with different damage properties.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
Specifically, certain weapons have damage multipliers against certain things. That's an RPG Mechanic.

In the HD release, there's a shadowsword with a strange effect of increasing damage dealt while also decreasing health regeneration

Totally RPG mechanic right there

Wouldn't that be more akin to an easter egg or a diversion, than a game mechanic? Kind of like how the car you get in Ni No Kuni does not make it a car game, its just a novelty. Also, for Colossus that sword is arguably a difficulty variation, which is not necessarily an RPG mechanic.

I do think you're technically correct but there are two important factors:

a) There is a certain critical mass of labeling, at which the game has already been labeled as something by so many, for so long that you can't just readily re-categorize.

b) The fact that the puzzles / platforms are anthropomorphic (or at least, beast-like) kind of does something to the perception which makes it into more a of "fight" - i.e: the meat and potatoes of the action genre.

A) I am not seeking to re-categorize at some academic or critical mass level. To me this is a forum for discussion among hobbyists and the occasional professional (admittedly there is a of overlap between the two) more so than a place for creating definitions with an expectation that the industry will adhere to them. If anything it could potentially have future influence, but I did not make the thread with any reasonable belief that would occur.

B) I thought about that quite a bit, but what I kept coming back to was just how specific the game is on what causes damage. You can get extremely slight arrow damage on some colossi, but it is so slight to where it shows that the devs intends for a specific way to down something. I believe a combat game allows some variation, like in The Witcher 3 it is much easier to use potions and items on some creatures, but I can still grind through most of them without the buffs/items.
 

potatohead

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
It has components of all the above, it would be more appropriately describes as both. Trying to just attach one moniker to it is a bit aggressive and actually describes the game less accurately I would argue.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
It is aesthetically heavy around an action adventure game, which caused me to hesitate while writing and aesthetics are easier to describe. Though at the end of the day (quite literally as its nighttime here), I went by mechanics, since the difference between another art form and a game will always be game mechanics.
but any game is the sum of its parts, just because games as an artform are made distinct by game mechanic should mean that aspect of them is immediately more important.
SOTC far more than most games puts a great emphasis on its storytelling and aesthetics, if you are trying to categorize the game as a whole then you kind of have to consider the whole game, not just the gamey bits.
 

issa

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,030
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
I literally argued why they aren't in my post. Read the last two sentences.
They are arbitrary and dumb, and also important. RPG in video games doesn't mean anything really, but we know what it means when someone calls a game an RPG.

I was thinking about this during 2017 gotys when Pyre was only categorized as a sports game here in Resetera. And when the game awards arbitrarily assigned games to action and action adventure.

And I'm not sure if we want to more accurately define game genres. Because then you'll start listing mechanics instead just like board games. SotC will be referred to as an action adventure shooter puzzle platforming game.
 

PogiJones

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,636
Well, just like all illusions, the illusions that are video games will be received somewhat differently by individuals. In the end, a game is nothing more than an illusion that conveys an experience to your brain via pixels, and therefore the most important classification is not necessarily with the game itself, but of the experience it conveys to your brain.

You're right that there are very strong puzzle elements in the game, but if most people ultimately feel like they're in an adventure fighting monstrous beasts, then that's the element that should be highlighted with the categorization.

For some people, the puzzle aspects will shine through and be the predominant aspect for them, but I think most people that finish the game would put the controller down and think, "What an adventure," rather than "What clever puzzles."
 
Dec 4, 2017
11,481
Brazil
Or The Real Horse Simulator, am I right ?
But seriously, I understood what you mean, the gameplay is really more puzzle than anything, but a different use of puzzles