Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710

To that I could say: then don't reveal it in the most obvious way at E3? I know E3 is still special to some devs, but you can't deny it has lost pretty much a lot of what made it special in the past. With how the industry, the media, entertainment works in 2019, if you want to do a reveal "your way", why taking the easy and obvious E3 route? That's speaking in the context of the date, I know this can happen in other ways and dates.

Still, at the end of the day, this is just a problem created by the industry itself, this whole secrecy about stuff, and one that's not healthy. I also get the devs point of view, that they don't want to reveal stuff so early because it can create misconceptions and spread false expectatives. But if you really think that way, why not just take the Apex Legends route and announce the thing when is ready to release? This whole hype thing is just part of the big marketing machine.

Like OP said, if you know about a game existence, is fine, because they still have to surprise with it's contents, why it doesn't work that way in the gaming industry as well as it works for the movies? You can know about the next Star Wars and then don't watch the trailers to avoid spoilers, why that can't work for gaming? To answer my own question: Because easy marketing. Game companies could fix this, but they won't.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
55,068
E3 is kind of like Christmas except instead of getting toys you are participating in commercials for the toys that you might get to play with 6-12 months from now.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
This guy wrote the book, "Blood, Sweat, and Pixels," and is constantly writing about and reporting on the people behind the products in the gaming industry, but when it comes to a carefully planned reveal, it's suddenly just a bunch of faceless corporations and billions of dollars of in cynical marketing cash, huh? No, Jason, there are tons of people working hard to plan these announcements, including the actual developers on the project. I'm with Barlog on this one.
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,919
Detroit, MI
That's not berating someone
That's a dev saying just because it's your job to jump on leaks, doesn't mean you should spin a reason why you did it.

Just be like "it's my job ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
Trying to preach about big marketing corporations and the like? Some of us, most of us I would think, love the surprise. It's why we watch.

Then stay off of the platforms you know will be posting the leaks?
 

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
I used to really live the theatrics of the big three press conferences and hype of someone dropping a "megaton" or a "one more thing".

But I've never really got how or why the game industry has to operate in complete secrecy compared to how film works.

Blizzard: we just fired a team working on a game you didn't know about and never will untill someone leaks it a few years from now, also we will not comment on any plans for future installments of any of our other franchises.

Disney: of course we're making a Black Panther 2 lol
There is just as much if not bigger industry around movie leaks than games. Script leaks. Casting rumors. On set photos. The only difference is they announce the movie projects because they can't hide these actors all on set filming a movie. You can hide game development.
 

Sarobi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,058
I agree. The idea of leaks ruining a press conference for people is just weird. You'll hear all your favorite buzzwords from your corporate men no matter whether you know something exist today rather than tomorrow.
 

Snowfruit

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jun 8, 2018
1,780
United States
I don't really mind leaks, I'll spoil myself and look at them if they show up.

But I still like surprises and sharing the excitement with others as it happens.
 

Raza

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,582
Ohio
I don't understand the "unhealthy" portion of that. Nearly all entertainment is backed by corporate marketing in some fashion or another. To want to be surprised is not necessarily a negative thing.
 

Acevil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
315
Go ahead spoil things journalist, but at the same time don't throw hissy fit if company blacklist you either please, because it is a two way streak.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,269
What's the value of journalists digging up info and reporting leaks? Like what's the benefit to society? I understand reporting things like unhealthy work practices and stuff but why bother with leaks?
 
OP
OP
Musubi

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,149
i think part of the problem is that yall treat products released by corporations as gifts
Nail on the head right here. Which is why this thinking is so bad. People want to talk about predatory shit in games perpetuating that kind of mentality is dangerous.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,206
JP
I see news that a game in a series is being developed at all as an infinitely more interesting surprise than any story revelation in those series.

Then what you're in for is the hype and wars, which isn't wrong because you do you. I guess some of us are more interested in the end product.
 

Wishbone Ash

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
4,041
Michigan
Jason could have worded this better. It's his business to get this stuff out to his readers early, so obviously it's in his interest, and he's not wrong about how the industry in general is framed. But there are actual people who have poured themselves into these games that aren't just shrugging their shoulders when they see screenshots of their secret project flooding social media.
 

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,208
If you don't want to be spoiled get off the sites that leak it. Its that simple.You'll still be surprised when you watch it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,789
Marketing isn't a production. Or maybe that's just a cynical view that throws away contributions of the support teams that help facilitate fandom of our favorite medium?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,634
There are too many dev interviews and documentaries out there showing how much stake devs put into their announcements, it clearly means a lot to the people working on it.
I personally do not think it's about being spoiled, rather it's snatching away that announcement from the devs and then blasting it on the internet.
This isnt an expose on working conditions, it's just stealing away a moment that could have been great for a team working in silence for years.

Yup. Journalists and other such folk will use the excuse that it's their job and then shift the idea that's it's not a problem.

And technically, they're correct. It's not a problem (I don't really buy the "it's their job" excuse, though).

But in reality it's more fun for many people to get a surprise at E3 or press conferences or whatever than just having it pop up in a random article somewhere. And in reality you could just, you know, keep your mouths shut if you learn some info. You're not being an irresponsible journalist by keeping your mouth shut if you happen to learn that, say, Half Life 3 is gonna get announced. You're just valuing your page clicks over other people's enjoyment. Which again, is technically fine. But still, I think, pretty stupid.

And really, I don't think we'd see that many people upset if we just got a few leaks here and there. But in today's world with so much access to information and insiders who can just post crap on twitter with no repercussions, we get leaks upon leaks upon leaks, and it should be easy to see how that can be annoying for people.

So in some ways I agree. If something gets leaked, we shouldn't freak out about it. But journalists also don't have a some sort of responsibility to leak stuff, and it would be stupid to think they do. And enjoying a press conference isn't evil. And sometimes it's ok to be marketed to.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,442
I think actual developers being enamored with the performative side of selling their games is kind of gross and toxic to be honest. If there wasn't such an obsession with the showmanship of it all we could have open discussions about what teams are working on, and we wouldn't find out about crunch and hellish situations 4 to 6 years into a 5 year project.

And it's definitely not all on them. The audience for games is so fucking immature and toxic, and the horrible abuse of employees in the industry is such that the openness of the movie industry would be disaster for most of these big studios/publishers exploiting their employees and trying to balance creative and monetary needs in front of the gamer audience.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,795
It's definitely one of the weirdest thing I've seen people get upset over on here, like I get you are excited for the show, but I mean it's absolutely your fault you got spoiled, stuff like holding announcements for E3/whatever is always going to run the risk of it just leaking before, especially the closer we get, you should just bounce from the forum, Twitter, gaming sites/subreddits a few days before if you really don't want to be spoiled. As it's ridiculous to expect people not to talk about individual leaks.
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,548
At this point, it honestly it feels like people are more enamored with the idea of being surprised by something than the actual enjoyment of something existing.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
I don't understand the "unhealthy" portion of that. Nearly all entertainment is backed by corporate marketing in some fashion or another. To want to be surprised is not necessarily a negative thing.

You don't understand it because it doesn't make any sense. There's nothing at all unhealthy about it.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,802
Then what you're in for is the hype and wars, which isn't wrong because you do you. I guess some of us are more interested in the end product.
Well, sorta. The surprise announcement is also the announcement of literally everything else, including the end product. I also don't care about story at all in games.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,010
I don't agree so much. Jason does a lot of great work, some of the only great work in the "games journalism" space, but leaks aren't one of them. It's not serving the audience in any way to publish cribs notes of a reveal before the devs officially get to. It's accomplishing nothing positive, other than satiating people's desire to know things they don't have patience to find out a bit later.

On this specific subject, the writer for a popular video games site is of no more valuable opinion than the publishers themselves. Jason has just as much vested interest to leak games as publishers do to keep them secret. Neither party here is impartial or well reasoned
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
96,282
here
E3 is kind of like Christmas except instead of getting toys you are participating in commercials for the toys that you might get to play with 6-12 months from now.
E3 is the catalogue where you circle what you want and then hide it under your moms pillow but then she doesn't notice it for two years
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
E3 is supposed to be a trade show.

The game industry needs to stop being so fucking secretive. We know about movies years before they even have a script. The excitement comes not from knowing they exist but rather how and when they are first demonstrated to the public... like you are supposed to do at trade shows.
 

Joseph

Member
Jul 7, 2018
497
Not surprising that Jason would say this. Guy leaks shit to eat and then complains about Bethesda blacklisting him.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,206
JP
The fact that Christmas, once a noble holiday that has become an excuse for unabated capitalism, is being equated with people marketing their products for purchase sight unseen has not gone unnoticed.

A product to buy is not a gift.

It's not even referring to the product(which I agree that getting a new game is like a gift even if I bought it) but the announcements and marketing material.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,262
Personal experience- we all knew there's a DMC5 in the works and it was all but officially announced.

When the trailer hits during the conference it's still a hype ass moment because it blew away all expectations.
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
E3 is just one big marketing trailer, see it today or tomorrow, it doesn't matter. If you care that much, then the corporation have their claws in you, and that ain't good.

Besides, I'm sure people will blow their load again once they see it in motion instead of a couple screenshots and a title logo.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Marketing isn't a production. Or maybe that's just a cynical view that throws away contributions of the support teams that help facilitate fandom of our favorite medium?

A lot of the time a project reveal in particular is very much of a production, often involving the creators of the actual game to a great degree.