Gobias-Ind

Member
Nov 22, 2017
4,049
Team Jason

It's marketing. Journalists should give us the information when they get it. If you're enough of a pisspig to get upset that a journalist gave you the info before a corporation did, you do not deserve respect and you should shut up.
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,548
Guys, I can only be excited for something if a brand executive in a suit points to a screen and tells me to be excited after saying that they're proud to announce said product 😬
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,813
NoVA
But is that a direct result of the game leaking, or the media culture that surrounds them? Would we had the same reaction if we had known the passion behind the minds of the project from the day they started development?

I'm not saying they weren't impacted by that big marketing leak (they obviously were), but it did end up working ever so slightly in their favor and if they had been able to open up about it from the start, there probably wouldn't have been such vitriol from the leak?
 

raeaburame

Member
May 9, 2019
181
Fax. The gaming industry's obsession with secrets, surprises and hype cycles has always struck me as childish, especially compared to peer mediums. I mean, marvel announces movies years in advance, yet they still manage to be wholly satisfying. The concept of hiding the existence a major project for years on end, waiting for the perfect bombastic reveal to hype up hardcore forum enthusiasts (at an industry trade show at that) is just weird to me :/.
 

P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,946
Barnsley, UK
While he obviously does gain a lot from leaks happening, I can't disagree with him.

E3 is just another form of marketing and publishers wanting to control the messaging, which is something you should ALWAYS be wary of.

Two years ago, a lot of people at BioWare worked really hard on a "gameplay demo" of Anthem that never actually existed. Smoke and mirrors that was obvious to many at first glance.

If that "demo" had leaked early does that not make it a lie anymore? No it's still a lie and deserving of all criticism. BioWare devs knew the game in that video didn't exist, that it was created purely for an E3 marketing blitz and that it couldn't be replicated across the whole game.

Did they tell people that afterwards or did they play along? So why I should feel bad again?

On the flip side I could also look at something I believe to be genuine, say last year's gameplay demo of Last of Us 2 and say "while that gameplay scenario playing out like that in my game is theoretically possible, 99/100 it won't play out like that" or "that looks good but they're not showing us the section where the Bloater tanks the frame rate".

What is shown at E3 is marketing and same goes for what isn't shown at E3.

Don't feel sorry. Always feel skeptical.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
It's always fun to watch a conference and have unexpected reveals come out of nowhere. I don't think I'm participating in some unhealthy behavior by doing so. I have many fond memories in conference threads and games come out of nowhere and people go nuts.

I also really like E3 and always have. I still have the dvd set from E3 2004 and watched it way too many times in my youth.

Would be lame if games were like movies and get announced super early. Especially with how often game projects end up being cancelled.
 

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,750
I don't need to know about a game's existence at the exact first second possible, so I don't really pay attention to leaks whenever possible.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,563
One of my favourite leaks was Horizon Zero Dawn. Concept art which leaked years before the game was revealed, and showed technologically advanced creatures being wrangled by Stone Age-esque hunters blew my mind and me anticipate the game more, not less.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
God forbid I like the surprise of a sudden trialer for a game I had no idea was coming instead of seeing some blurb on /r/games.
 

Evan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
922
Thanks Jason for telling me how I should feel, I would be lost without your wisdom.
 

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,279
Not sure how that makes any sense. A leaker is either gainfully employed by a media outlet that pays them whether they leak stuff or not, or they'll get no monetary benefit from it at all because they're anonymous. The game industry hides what they're working on so that when they reveal it manchildren scream and cry at the thought of paying for goods and services and they get more eyes on their game, more mindshare, more likes, comments, and retweets.

A more healthy view of this whole thing is the megacorporation puts out a press release that such and such developer is working with this team to build this game, the press get to talk to the developer off and on about how things are going and the developer can tell them or not tell them if they're having design issues or staff problems or funding problems or whatever, and then they show the game when they're ready by showing the game. Not a trailer with the title of a game. This is how movies work, and it works pretty well. Some projects go away due to issues that are quite publicly reported by the press, and nobody loses their minds.
Why equate people who are excited about announcements to screaming manchildren? I just don't think it's that bad to succumb to marketing for something you like.

And 4Chan leaks kinda prove that people don't care about having their names associated with leaks. They just get off on the personal satisfaction of being "the one who leaked", regardless of whether or not they get credit for it.

I'm not about to rail against journalists for running with leaks. It's their job. The leaks themselves just dampen excitement, and that sucks.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
It's literally his job to publish information he knows is accurate.

You think he gets a bonus in his end of year pay package for telling us about a game early?

People honestly believe the press should be part of the hype machine and marketing. This is fucking insane...

Edit: Thank god we have people like Jason who aren't going to carry water for the corporations and just report the news.
 

grizzmo

Member
Oct 31, 2017
163
I get where Cory's coming from, but didn't God of War have massive leaks? Down to even art design documents hitting the internet. I don't think that took away from the reveal. Hell, they even had a whole bit in their documentary on the reveal of God of War; one of the most hypest/exciting moments at an Sony press event that was leaked in earnest.

But on the flip side, take for instance Mario + Rabbids: after the leak of marketing notes before E3, I don't think anyone was excited for that game until they showed it off. Those leaks definitely hurt the game heading into E3. It had an uphill battle and in my opinion succeeded after the stage presentation at Ubisoft. I don't know if other titles could have pulled that off.

The common thread is that both titles were well constructed games that had a great initial, in-depth showing/demo. And I'd argue that's what's really important.

Leaks be damned, people are probably gonna buy if you show off a good game. You don't even need to show off a good game! Even a manipulative polished up vertical slice demo like Anthem had people buy in, but that's another issue besides leaks.

Withholding the existence of a product is marketing, sure. Do it for the surprise, but you gotta admit shit is low stakes if you feed off a hype machine. But it's their job to sell it so I guess they got the job done?

I do admit, you gotta feel a little bummed to keep a secret for so long only for it go public days before you do it yourself. Hazards of a giant, unchecked industry going into a public event I guess.
 

MidnightMania

Member
Oct 31, 2017
550
As someone who watches Easy Allies stream during E3, the surprise reactions are everything. It's an event. I'd rather not know what's coming. I mean could you imagine how different the Resident Evil VII reactions would have been if everyone had known in advance, especially the surprise when the demo was shadow dropped that night?
 

Gray clouds

Member
Nov 7, 2017
465
I wish devs didn't try to bunch up for one event to reveal everything. Even worse when they have to pull resources to rush demos or put together bullshit trailers just for this event.

Just reveal games whenever they are ready to be revealed.

Though honestly I'm liking the idea of cutting out the secrecy all together. People's enjoyment of God of War wasn't less because it leaked early.

Focus on surprising people with a well made game.
 

Cyberclops

Member
Mar 15, 2019
1,467
Just because it's marketing doesn't mean people can't enjoy it, and it's only natural to want to watch something you enjoy 'spoiler-free'. That being said, I'll never blame journalists for publishing news.
 

____

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,743
Miami, FL
Games should be striving to be. Film and Music are mature industries that aren't secretive to a fault. If the gaming industry would peel back the veil maybe it could mature past things like a 7/10 being bad, and a creative director defending one of the main reasons devs are treated poorly. If only they'd just let us know something is coming leak culture would probably be tame. Like seriously why is it so bad to know if there is a new Splinter Cell? Or a Demon's Souls remake?
Because for games there are so many different factors than just a listen or a watch. The overall experience is more than something to be consumed in a 1-2 hour setting.

When games get leaked out of context or ahead of schedule, in comes the months/years of boring and baseless speculation and endless threads of people questioning "What is this developer doing with this title? "Will we see more next month?" "Why aren't they telling us anything? What will it play like?" "I think it's in development hell cuz that's what my heart tells me." "I need to see gameplay or I can't get excited." "Fuck this developer because I need to be pandered to on my own terms so I can feeeeel something." "I'm worried because reasons." All of which you can find on this very board.

Blah blah blah. It all sounds like grown ass adult crybabies whining over nothing.
 

SleepSmasher

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,094
Australia
Might be just me but it sounds like everything that Jason Schreier says nowadays is taken as the absolute truth and as a lesson to be learned by this forum.
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
9,031


This is kind of a ridiculous take. Movies are confirmed years in advance because it's just a little bit difficult to hide the fact that you're filming a movie. I'm sure studios would love to be secretive about what they're creating until they have something to show, but they'd have a hell of a time explaining why Brad Pitt and Leonardo Dicaprio are being filmed in a blocked off street in the middle of Los Angeles.

Even though the movie wasn't good, one of the most hyped I've ever been for a movie was The Cloverfield Paradox shadow drop on Netflix announcing during a Super Bowl commercial. Had no idea it was being created, had no idea it'd be releasing so soon, and I was hyped to watch it - which probably would not have been the case had I known about it a year or two out.

It's ridiculous to suggest that creators should have anything about their work dictated for them.
 

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
God forbid I like the surprise of a sudden trialer for a game I had no idea was coming instead of seeing some blurb on /r/games.
And chastised from a leaker that capitalizes on people's anticipation and excitement if you disagree with said practice he's benefiting from. And When in doubt use the billion dollar corporation defense
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
But this happens every year. Why not just avoid /r/games the week prior to E3?
Also this.

If you love E3 surprises so much why the fuck are you on ResetEra the week before?

I watch Formula E and they put the full race on their YouTube channel a week after. You think I'm on the formula E reddit in that week?
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,442
Why equate people who are excited about announcements to screaming manchildren? I just don't think it's that bad to succumb to marketing for something you like.

And 4Chan leaks kinda prove that people don't care about having their names associated with leaks. They just get off on the personal satisfaction of being "the one who leaked", regardless of whether or not they get credit for it.

I'm not about to rail against journalists for running with leaks. It's their job. The leaks themselves just dampen excitement, and that sucks.
...because the screaming manchildren are the ones irate enough on behalf of their corporation that they would attack journalists reporting on their industry.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,795
One of my favourite leaks was Horizon Zero Dawn. Concept art which leaked years before the game was revealed, and showed technologically advanced creatures being wrangled by Stone Age-esque hunters blew my mind and me anticipate the game more, not less.
This is a good point too, a well done leak can build a lot of excitement for the reveal. Same thing with Bloodborne too, the leak caused a lot of hype.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
I had the pleasure of being in attendance for Bethesda's announcement of Fallout 76.

That reveal, the subsequent hiding of key information about the game and the instant opening of pre-orders should be enough to remind anybody that E3 is a tool to get consumers to spend money on games they know basically nothing about.

It's marketing, not spoilers. It's a consumer event.

This is a great post. All of the press conference announcements are extremely sanitized demos that rarely if ever replicate the experience that a released game will present to the user. So little detail exists that we get excited over a game half-formed that mostly exists in our minds, and then get disappointed when time and logistical reasons cause the half in our minds to not reach fruition. And that's arguably the ideal case.
 

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Why can't the announcement be part of the marketing strategy?

They can. If you want part of your marketing strategy to have such a glaring weakness to it. Sure, not everything gets leaked but it happens often enough that it doesn't seem like the surprise of the announcement should be a major factor/something you are depending on.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Why equate people who are excited about announcements to screaming manchildren? I just don't think it's that bad to succumb to marketing for something you like.

And 4Chan leaks kinda prove that people don't care about having their names associated with leaks. They just get off on the personal satisfaction of being "the one who leaked", regardless of whether or not they get credit for it.

I'm not about to rail against journalists for running with leaks. It's their job. The leaks themselves just dampen excitement, and that sucks.
Because people screaming at the Twilight Princess reveal has been referred to as an example what leaks take away from.
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
User banned (1 day): inflammatory generalizations, vilifying journalism
Lol at people saying its games journalists "job" to report leaks. They do it for clicks, and the fresher the leak the best.

The 8chan and thq debacle showed there are NO journalists in gaming. Just pr machines and clickbaits. They all went radio silent when it was time to rake THQ Nordic over the coals.
 

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,279
...because the screaming manchildren are the ones irate enough on behalf of their corporation that they would attack journalists reporting on their industry.
This thread isn't about attacking journalists is it? It's about people who think leaks lessen excitement vs. people who don't mind leaks. If there have been any personal attacks against journalists for doing their jobs in this thread I'll back off on that statement though.
 

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
People honestly believe the press should be part of the hype machine and marketing. This is fucking insane...

Edit: Thank god we have people like Jason who aren't going to carry water for the corporations and just report the news.
You really think him posting leaks isn't feeding into the hype machine? Haha ok