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vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,648

image_cyberpunk_2077-40528-2618_0002.jpg

Really interesting interview from Jason that also touches on things like unionisation, I'd recommend giving it a listen. Also the private gameplay demo that's been shown to the press behind closed doors at E3 will finally be uploaded to their YouTube channel at the end of PAX West in August.
Following an impressive showcase from Cyberpunk 2077 this week at E3 in Los Angeles, CD Projekt Red boss Marcin Iwiński joined Kotaku Splitscreen to talk about crunch, recent controversy over transgender issues, and whether GOG is in trouble.

A few weeks ago, CD Projekt Red had reached out to talk about their "non-mandatory" crunch policies on Cyberpunk, promising that they wanted to avoid the brutal periods of overtime that staff had to face at the end of development on The Witcher 3. This week, they wanted to follow up. So a couple of days after watching Cyberpunk's impressive new hourlong demo, in which the company showed off the different ways in which one mission can be tackled, I met with Iwiński for a 25-minute interview about many different topics. He again said some interesting things about crunch, and I again said that we'd be keeping an eye out to hold him to these promises.

Here's a brief excerpt from our conversation:

J: If I'm a designer at CD Projekt Red and I say you know what I have kids, I have a family, I'm going to work from 10am to 6pm every day, and that's it. Even until the very end. Am I going to be okay with that?

I: Yes. Yes.

J: No matter what.

I: Yes.

J: So you can commit to that?

I: We've committed to that already.

J: That's good to hear, because oftentimes it feels like there's these social pressures and subtle pressures—

I: We can never be 200% sure that there won't be some pressure, but it's actually our management's work to make sure people are OK with that, and I think I'd like people to tell other people within the company that that's OK, because that's when we are successful when introducing it. But so far so good.

J: I was actually glad to see that you guys announced the game for April 2020, because I had heard from some people, 'Oh, we're going for 2019, it's unrealistic, what are we going to have to do to ourselves?' Is that one of the reasons you guys delayed it?

I: (laughs) You're digging way too deep, Jason.

J: (laughs) That's my job.

I: The production plans are discussed with people, and of course we had to set a certain date, because as you know, we could develop every single game we've been developing endlessly because there's always something you can tweak, make it better. So a set date is important. But it is lots of planning and we take into account a lot of variables, first and foremost the production capabilities, the time we think is needed, the stage at which we are, but also the market environment. We are trying to hit a certain good window. And I think it's a good window. And it aligns with our production plans.

J: Is it fair to say that you guys wanted to hit that target to make sure people didn't have to kill themselves to make this?

I: (laughs) It's a direct result of our production planning and we're trying to make it realistic, and not make it a ginormous burden on the team. Why we've been making this public commitment is because we really care about the people that are making this game. It's not me coding personally or painting something, it's the super-talented folks that decided to join us, and I want to make sure they feel taken care of and respected.

J: I was watching the Cyberpunk demo and you were exploring this sort of Haitian culture and I've seen a lot of mixed opinion. Some people were like "This gang of people were stereotypical!" while some people who were Haitian on Twitter were like "Oh, yeah! We're being represented!". Did you guys have Haitian writers or...?

I: We're actually consulting with a Haitian NGO about this and we're very sensitive to these things.

I: Every single time we try to be as professional as we can. There is 25% of foreigners (not native to Poland) on this team and we have people from different races and cultures so we cannot know everything, so we always check and here in this case we have a Haitian NGO involved.
 
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Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,384
These are great questions, and (hopefully) we're looking at an example of good editorial work helping a company that seems to have difficulties with their own public image. I don't know that everything here can be taken at face value given some not too distant reports, but a rep being willing to say they get it in a believable way is a good start to rebuilding community trust (and giving employees something to point to if things aren't right).
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
Great interview and it's good to see Jason dig into the thornier questions. Hopefully the promises home true and crunch will be minimalized.

I know there is a lot of negativity about the game on this forum, but can't wait.
 

Deleted member 21411

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,907
CD feels very damage control lately which is good because it gets then to adapt. But for all of what they say I just really hope it's actually true rather then what I want to hear
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
I don't know if a company's boss is the one to ask about if said company's employees have to deal with crunch.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,247
The link in the headline does not go to the interview you're quoting from
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,566
Really? All I see for Cyberpunk is pure hype.

You have not been here for the past few days.

Anyway, this is all good new. The biggest bummer about everything negative surrounding the game stems from the idea that it's a bunch of people who aren't actively speaking with people who belong to the demographics they're so eagerly looking to, at best represent, and at worst lampoon. Hopefully their treatment of Haitians goes beyond "pateau and voodoo" and their treatment of Transfolk is more than, "lol she has a dick".
 

dotyoureyes

Alt Account
Member
Jun 11, 2019
488
You have not been here for the past few days.

Anyway, this is all good new. The biggest bummer about everything negative surrounding the game stems from the idea that it's a bunch of people who aren't actively speaking with people who belong to the demographics they're so eagerly looking to, at best represent, and at worst lampoon. Hopefully their treatment of Haitians goes beyond "pateau and voodoo" and their treatment of Transfolk is more than, "lol she has a dick".
I am aware of the trans phobic stuff and yes there was justified blowback, but I am talking strictly game, bot the developer themselves. The game is gettign praised everywhere including here.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,566
I am aware of the trans phobic stuff and yes there was justified blowback, but I am talking strictly game, bot the developer themselves. The game is gettign praised everywhere including here.

I mean, strictly gameplay wise, people have been VERY critical about the feeling of the shooting.
 

Goddo Hando

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,724
Chicago
CDPR couldve easily ignored this (I remember capcom ignoring the stuff about the zombies in re5 for example) so i give them a lot of credit for addressing these issues.

With that said, seeing is believing they take this to heart
 

Truant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,760
The saddest thing about all of this is that most, if not all, the people who've been giving CDPR shit the last few days, deserved or not, are gonna buy Cyberpunkt 2077 at some point.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
"We can never be 200% sure that there won't be some pressure, but it's actually our management's work to make sure people are OK with that,"

oh, okay then. It's not like the pressure is what makes people say they are ok with that
 

Necron

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,296
Switzerland
Honestly, I feel as though April 2020 is even too close and will be stressful to meet. Obviously, I don't see their ways of project management but...
why not push it for an extra 6+ months? Early 2020 is really full already.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
"Some of my best friends are Haitian NGOs"

I'm assuming you're not Haitian, are you? At the end of the day this is like the Mario Odyssey case where people thought him wearing a sombrero was "appropriation" while a number of Mexicans thought it was awesome to get representation. We're people outside the represented group projecting what we consider to be problematic and assuming they feel the same way. I'm not going to pretend I know what it feels like as a Haitian to see this so I'm not in a position to call CDPR out on their Haitian characters. Add to the fact that game isn't even out so we have no idea how they'll be portrayed when not just static screenshots accompanied by a short descriptive blurb
 

Li bur

Member
Oct 27, 2017
363
I don't know if a company's boss is the one to ask about if said company's employees have to deal with crunch.

I'm sure Jason knows that very well. He's also talked to other employees its seems (judging by he knows that the game is delayed to 2020).

However, it's also interesting to know what the CEO has to say on this matter. As for the progress of the no-crunch policy, let's just wait for the next Press Sneak Fuck action.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,566
Honestly, I feel as though April 2020 is even too close and will be stressful to meet. Obviously, I don't see their ways of project management but...
why not push it a few month? Early 2020 is really full already.

Personally, I see this game slipping into September of October. That's just a gut feeling though.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,111
"We can never be 200% sure that there won't be some pressure, but it's actually our management's work to make sure people are OK with that,"

oh, okay then. It's not like the pressure is what makes people say they are ok with that
Unless you actively deny everyone the opportunity to work overtime then some people are going to feel pressured to work overtime. If I'm doing less than somebody else in the room, i feel bad about it.
 
OP
OP
vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,648
The saddest thing about all of this is that most, if not all, the people who've been giving CDPR shit the last few days, deserved or not, are gonna buy Cyberpunkt 2077 at some point.
What so sad about that? People are excited for this game but want to see CDPR do better in certain areas they've historically not been very good at such as representation. The fact that they've gone out of their way to consult with different organizations on this kind of thing is very welcomed and is the exact kind of thing they should be talking about considering how much controversies this game is mired in.

Iwiński continues to ask people to wait for the final product before judging them so in all honesty I think that's what I'll do. If the game turns out to be a problematic mess, I can always rent it. No skin off my back.
 

Alien Bob

Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,471
It doesn't solve all the problems, but since the industry standard response to such questions is to double down and/or rant about political correctness on twitter, it helps.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,566
The saddest thing about all of this is that most, if not all, the people who've been giving CDPR shit the last few days, deserved or not, are gonna buy Cyberpunkt 2077 at some point.

I don't think there's anything sad about that. If the loud criticism they've gotten over the past few days has prompted them to change things for the better instead of resting on a bad idea, that benefits everyone. No one wants this game to be bad.

Yep, just one article. But tbh I doubt itll be less playable than The Witcher 3 or RDR 2 and I managed to power through both.

I really don't want to have to "power through" it though. I'd rather it just be good.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,129
"We can never be 200% sure that there won't be some pressure, but it's actually our management's work to make sure people are OK with that,"

oh, okay then. It's not like the pressure is what makes people say they are ok with that
So you prefer him to lie and say that they will be no pressure? Because that's not how office works happen, not with a company that big.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,417
Canada
I'm glad CDPR responding to issues with something other than silence or mockery. That is an improvement.
 

PetrCobra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
954
Unless you actively deny everyone the opportunity to work overtime then some people are going to feel pressured to work overtime. If I'm doing less than somebody else in the room, i feel bad about it.
I guess it might be different in different countries but when the overtime is paid you don't have to feel bad, because if you work less you'll get paid less, and they'll get paid more.
Edit: or they'll use that overtime to get extra paid vacation after the game is done. Some companies prefer to do that.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,444
FIN
Just realized this is the same guy who said CDPR has a "non-obligatory crunch policy" last month. Doesn't sound like much has actually changed from that looking at this interview. Especially with the "we can't guarantee there won't be some pressure" line. He doesn't exactly promise that there won't be crunch, just that they won't force employees to do it.

You do realize that even if there is NO crunch culture and mandatory crunching someone can feel like he is slacking off because Cody the Coder over there does 1-2 hour longer days just because he wants to? That is difficult thing to combat against as you can't ever control how people react to their co-workers behavior and habits when it comes to this stuff. Banning all overtime work is also very utopic thing because some times you just need get shit finished against deadline and it may require overtime, I think we all in work life know that.

Maybe Marcin goes full GabeN towards end of production if people are working overtime and forces everyone home for few days just because people is working more than they would need to.

His direct "Yes!" to Jason's example of producer working just 10AM to 6PM and no over is very encouraging imo of leadership approach to this.

Edit: Added missing word in caps to actually make my argument
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Unless you actively deny everyone the opportunity to work overtime then some people are going to feel pressured to work overtime. If I'm doing less than somebody else in the room, i feel bad about it.

Right, and the only solution is what you said -- tell people to go home

So you prefer him to lie and say that they will be no pressure? Because that's not how office works happen, not with a company that big.

To be clear, I don't care what CDPR does, that is not an important issue to me. I do, however, work in the software world myself and I am intimately familiar with the factors that lead to people working day and night on a project. You can't say that there will be pressure but its not crunch time as these statements are at odds with each other. Asking the employee is pointless, as they will accept it. Nobody is going around with a whip forcing these people to work all night so if you care about crunch time then the issue is pressure and CDPR is admitting they have not solved for that. They want to have it both ways
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,129
To be clear, I don't care what CDPR does, that is not an important issue to me. I do, however, work in the software world myself and I am intimately familiar with the factors that lead to people working day and night on a project. You can't say that there will be pressure but its not crunch time as these statements are at odds with each other. Asking the employee is pointless, as they will accept it. Nobody is going around with a whip forcing these people to work all night so if you care about crunch time then the issue is pressure and CDPR is admitting they have not solved for that. They want to have it both ways

He's saying that he's mandating managers to ensure that no pressure is put on employees to crunch. As in if they do their job properly no crunch will happen, but he can't ensure that every single manager in this 500+ people company will do that.

It's common sense. No CEO can completely curb unwanted behavior that quickly. Especially if/when you have ambitious people willingly to work more hours to climb the ladder. Man management doesn't work in a binary way.
 

Techno

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,415
Sounds great to me.

Mike Pondsmith looked really pleased at these recent interviews from E3.
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,113
Australia
I'm sorry , Haitain NGO = Haitian gang now. They're not even in the same ballpark...
Obviously. Which is why they're not basing a Haitian gang off of a Haitian NGO. They're (from the sounds of it) working with the NGO to make sure that the characters and culture they're trying to portray is both accurate and a positive representation without falling into caricature and stereotypes.