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JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,481

View: https://youtu.be/AQMaAfbJ2TI?t=1041
Jez Corden : "I can confirm MS had no involvement in the decision to delay/release Redfall, but maybe they should have. This is a straight Youngbloodening."
Jeff Grubb : "I'll say about a month ago I was talking to somebody and they mentioned, 'yeah Redfall is going to be a disaster.' I'm like well let's wait and see, well I guess I should have trusted him. He knew what he was talking about and it's like.... that was coming from the Microsoft side. So I was like 'well you know they're aware' apparently, or they were aware. That it's in rough shape."
Jeff Grubb : "The understanded way it works at Microsoft is they don't change anything, they let the studios just keep doing what they're doing and barely interfere at all. You know interfere, they barely like manage it at all, it's like 'well the managers that were there before we hired them to and they're still managing those studios."

Adjacent to this but interesting nonetheless, from a recent interview with Raphael Colantonio (Arkane Founder) :
www.rockpapershotgun.com

Bethesda weren't sure if they wanted Dishonored 3, and so we got Deathloop instead

Arkane founder Raphaël Colantonio reveals that Deathloop was initially meant to be a short project to keep the studio moving after Death Of The Outsider
As Colantonio explains it, Deathloop was initially conceived as a "small game" to keep Arkane occupied and learning before it jumped into another big project. "Bethesda wanted us to do something," he says. "They didn't quite know where we were going after Dishonored. 'Do we want Dishonored 3? I don't know, let's make something simple and short before, and let's see.'"
"And then [Deathloop] became a big thing, over the years," he says. "That was the funny thing: 'Nah, we don't wanna do Dishonored 3, but if you can pitch us a small game, something that maybe has multiplayer so we can learn multiplayer, something that maybe has microtransactions, maybe something with a lot of recycling, like a roguelike.'"
This combined with earlier leaked screenshots of Redfall showing some sort of MTX store and currency, it seems like Redfall was Bethesda GASSing up another one of their studios (BGS/76 and Machine/Youngblood.) I understand that it probably would've been a terrible look/morale killer for MS to cancel Redfall straight after acquiring Bethesda, with Arkane Austin already being 3-4 years deep into development of the game and it originally targeting a release a little over a year after the acquisition. But the damage this has done to Arkane's reputation and the bad PR it has created for Xbox is terrible, surely taking a hands on approach and telling Bethesda to scrap the project while moving Arkane Austin to something their more passionate about would have been a better choice.

Plus while I would trust Bethesda's individual studios to manage themselves, I don't trust Bethesda publishings management having complete creative/management freedom. This is their third failed attempt at pushing their studios in this direction, sure after Starfield future Bethesda publishing projects are probably not going to be like this given their new position. But any management at Bethesda that thought Redfall was a good idea in the first place (let alone 76 or Youngblood), or didn't step in earlier in the production of Redfall surely shouldn't have complete freedom.

One interesting thing before Jeff cut himself off :
"It's a little bit different than a Redfall which was shown at 60 and then they're like also it's only running at 30. Apparently Microsoft had.... I can't remember if I can say that or not. Um, okay yeah."
There was a rumour going around recently in the last couple of weeks, that Microsoft was blindsided/surprised by the missing 60fps mode for Redfall. I wonder if Jeff was about to bring that up.
 

Mafro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,381
Now that it's out I can also confirm from my sources the game runs badly.
 

IDontBeatGames

ThreadMarksman
Member
Oct 29, 2017
16,700
New York
Not that I don't believe Grubb because he has been right before, but he should've said this when he heard it rather than saying it now after the reviews. It just comes off as a bad look regardless if he's telling the truth or not.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
24,007
every publication in the next few days will be like we knew this as well
 
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MistahS

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Sep 2, 2018
3,749
They'll probably just update it for like 4 months and dump it like Bleeding Edge. Which is crazy to think about considering Redfall is 70 dollars.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,669
Everyone coming out of the woodwork NOW to be like "oh yeah we knew it was gonna suck all along" is really cute. And by "cute" I mean "makes me roll my eyes so hard they almost pop out of my skull".
 

Ombala

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,246
I would love too work at a job where my boss never manage me or the rest of the employees.
I'm sure we would make a great job in the end and reach amazing results.
 
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JINX

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,481
I would love too work at a job where my boss never manage me or the rest of the employees.
I'm sure we would make a great job in the end and reach amazing results.
It's less "no management" and more we bought Bethesda so they could continue managing themselves, same with the studios they bought which all had pre-existing studio leadership to manage themselves.
 

stersauce

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
3,838
san jose, ca
3oJ92hJ.png
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,807
The hands off approach is still the right way to go. Empower the studios with the resources they need and allow them creative and developmental autonomy.

Phil's job should be to ensure that the projects themselves are developing the way they should be. If something is having problems, identify why it's having problems and work on getting it fixed.

Sometimes you do have to put your foot down though and just flat out say, "we're not releasing the game in this state". Halo Infinite, for example, should have never been released without Forge mode and local/online co-op ready at release.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,522
LOL this thread is dumb. Jeff is having a conversation and said this. He didn't tweet this out or make this a news article, but people are acting like he did so they can get their "lol insider" takes out.
 

Serene

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,575
I mean let's be real had Jeff said this weeks ago it would be met with "Jeff trying to tear down MS", "MS would never say that", "why is Jeff attacking games that aren't even out yet and shaping the narrative", etc. etc.
 

Caiusto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,945
2 weeks ago everyone went crazy at Grubb for commenting on something he heard, now everyone will be mad for not commenting on something he heard. It's tough
 

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,866
benefit of the doubt, his source may have not wanted him to say anything until the game released. Don't want to get your source in trouble for a throw away game when they can help provide news years from now.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,851
We were warned in January by someone on here that had sources that it was in rough shape. I feel like people were warned. Jeff saying this now doesn't really do much.
 

crespo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,631
These comments.... honestly.

Imagine if Jeff had said anything before the game released. Absolute hell.
 

SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,514
Washington
Microsoft allegedly doesn't even manage the publishers they acquire, and people thought they were the only rescue that ABK employees would get from their terrible corporate/work culture, and that they'd displace the CoD machine and bring back dormant IP. Sure.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,252
Chicago
Now that this bad game is out, I can exclusively confirm that I always knew it was bad. For more hot scoops, stay tuned next week where I will exclusively reveal some scandalous details about Jedi Survivor's PC version.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,032
Las Vegas
Probably obvious to most people internally I'd guess. Like I don't think the reception to the game caught a single person by surprise within the company.
 

egg

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,669
I would love too work at a job where my boss never manage me or the rest of the employees.
I'm sure we would make a great job in the end and reach amazing results.

This is almost exactly how my job is now, it's kinda awesome lol. But we're also efficient with our job so there's a lot of trust there.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,472
LOL this thread is dumb. Jeff is having a conversation and said this. He didn't tweet this out or make this a news article, but people are acting like he did so they can get their "lol insider" takes out.

I mean let's be real had Jeff said this weeks ago it would be met with "Jeff trying to tear down MS", "MS would never say that", "why is Jeff attacking games that aren't even out yet and shaping the narrative", etc. etc.

I agree with you both.

All in all it's a fairly innocuous comment in a conversation, perhaps he shouldn't have said anything to avoid folks jumping to conclusions about him but at the same time I wonder if it's worth even highlighting?
 

Skyscourge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2020
1,857
Iirc major publishers (maybe all publishers?) have internal mock reviews of games before release, no way that Microsoft/Bethesda didn't know about the state of Redfall and how it will be received. There are some theories going around that Microsoft sent this out to die because they just wanted to get it over with.
 
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JINX

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,481
We were warned in January by someone on here that had sources that it was in rough shape. I feel like people were warned. Jeff saying this now doesn't really do much.
Except that source was clearly fake, it mentioned other info which is straight up false. Like how Azure was failing so Starfield wasn't getting delayed to cover the revenue drop, then Starfield ended up getting delayed and Azure last quarter did insanely well.
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,012
Jeff Grubb : "The understanded way it works at Microsoft is they don't change anything, they let the studios just keep doing what they're doing and barely interfere at all. You know interfere, they barely like manage it at all, it's like 'well the managers that were there before we hired them to and they're still managing those studios."

So they knew the game was heading down the toilet ahead of time, did nothing, and this is standard practice? Holy crap.
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,397
Awww shucks, I talked to someone as well, but it was 2 months ago, guess I forgot to warn everybody, sorry folks.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
55,785
Listen to the way he described. Someone told him this about a month ago and he didn't believe it and wanted to wait and see.
it's also not necessarily his place to spread some rumor trashing a game. I like to think Jeff knows better. Leaking project details or whatever is often his MO, but not "Hey guys, heard this game is gonna fucking SUCK! lol!"
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Microsoft allegedly doesn't even manage the publishers they acquire, and people thought they were the only rescue that ABK employees would get from their terrible corporate/work culture, and that they'd displace the CoD machine and bring back dormant IP. Sure.

I do want to point out that managing HR and managing projects are two different things. If a studio was having HR issues, it's legally required for MS to step in.
 

Marqroq

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
333
Was Redfall pushed out the door now in hopes that Jedi Survivor and Zelda would swallow up the oxygen?
 
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