SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
$3.6 Billion already down the drain, & they want to focus on buying up more studios instead of doing something as useful as, I don't know, trying to fix their image with the Japanese market by making games that actually caters to Japanese gamers (like they had with Ghost of Tsushima). Or building their own Japanese gaming studios.
 

Cocobani

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
780
I'm getting older so ai don't have time to play games as much as I'd like so this is kind of like a blessing in disguise.
Nintendo should get on the bandwagon and buy one or two studios just with all of the money they have made with Mario Kart 8...
 

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,326
It's a shame, but not unexpected. Going forward I definitely wouldn't prefer studios that have room to grow, a strong relationship with a first party, or one that has financial/leadership issues to be what is prioritized. Like, hearing a Ubisoft (or similar) going to Sony or Microsoft would kind of suck.

Playstation is my preferred platform and at this moment in my life I'm not playing a lot of games, so selfishly I hope any future acquisitions from Sony would be something like a Japanese company or ones capable of making great Western RPG's.

Yeah it's not fun at all. I see a lot of media people calling it "interesting," but I very much do not like living in "interesting" times, lol.
 
Jul 17, 2018
1,631
FKhjpAuXEAAOYq-
 

W.S.

Honest Work
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,147
$3.6 Billion already down the drain, & they want to focus on buying up more studios instead of doing something as useful as, I don't know, trying to fix their image with the Japanese market by making games that actually caters to Japanese gamers (like they had with Ghost of Tsushima). Or building their own Japanese gaming studios.

Wouldn't Demon Souls Remake, Ratchet & Clank, & Returnal naturally cater to JP gamers as far as 1st party titles go?

I'd like to see them build more internal JP teams too similar to what they had with Japan studio but they do get a lot of JP support and have various dealings to get games like Granblue Fantasy Relink, Final Fantasy 7 Remake/FF 16, Genshin Impact, & investing in the China Hero Project.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,566
The Stussining
Wouldn't Demon Souls Remake, Ratchet & Clank, & Returnal naturally cater to JP gamers as far as 1st party titles go?

I'd like to see them build more internal JP teams too similar to what they had with Japan studio but they do get a lot of JP support and have various dealings to get games like Granblue Fantasy Relink, Final Fantasy 7 Remake/FF 16, Genshin Impact, & investing in the China Hero Project.
Sales wise none of the three first party titles you listed made much of an impact in Japan.
 

HouseAR

Member
May 17, 2020
223
I don't think Nintendo can afford to be in the acquisition game to acquire a big publisher especially when Sony and Microsoft are pouching and would likely be able to front more cash than Nintendo could. For smaller devs though? Sure.

nintendo has huge liquidity assets and while it cannot probably jump in an acquisition of the scale of activision blizzard, they can afford operations like Bungie without problems (if they want)
 

Glace

Banned
Dec 8, 2021
119
$3.6 Billion already down the drain, & they want to focus on buying up more studios instead of doing something as useful as, I don't know, trying to fix their image with the Japanese market by making games that actually caters to Japanese gamers (like they had with Ghost of Tsushima). Or building their own Japanese gaming studios.
Let me guess, you're an expert on Japanese Culture, right?
 

W.S.

Honest Work
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,147
Sales wise none of the three first party titles you listed made much of an impact in Japan.

Fair enough, they seemed like titles that I thought would have catered towards that market due to the From Software DNA in Demon Souls, having a mascot title, and a 3rd person shmup.

Japan is an increasingly tough market for them as Switch has gotten so far ahead but they still get so much support from 3rd parties still that maybe Sony doesn't see large investments in JP made 1st party titles as a big necessity yet.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,166
QLD, Australia
So basically the end game is PC will win at the end. I can imagine Samsung TV's, Roku and mobile phones will have the ability to get game pass and playstation app download to your TV and just take a Bluetooth controller and play through the tv.

You're right, and Sony already did this with PSNow way back when, but removed it bc of performance issues iirc.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,332
No.

Buying individual studios = okay (not good, just okay).
Buying entire publishers = bad for the industry.

I have no issue with acquisitions. The industry is still growing, which means there's still room for new studios to grow and flourish. Buying an entire Publisher, all of their studios, and their IPs, however, is an entirely different scale of acquisition, and as such is not comparable. I hold any platform holder to the same standard. Anyone buying any publisher for billions of dollars is not good, healthy, or competitive. Is it a sign of a "speed run" to market dominance. If Sony bought Activision, or were to acquire Take Two or a different publisher, I would have the exact same attitude.

Thanks for trying though.
You mean like was the case when Sony bought Psygnosis: the largest publisher in Europe at the time?
 

Fukuzatsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,334
You mean like was the case when Sony bought Psygnosis: the largest publisher in Europe at the time?
Always a good sign when the one example people have for this "Sony does the same thing" argument is from 1993, and the group in question has been defunct for 10 years. Not that you specifically mean it in such a derogatory capacity, but Microsoft has bought two major multinational publishers in the past 2 years, and if we do want to go back further in time it is well-documented how they tried to buy out Nintendo as well. Sony has not bought a major third-party publisher really ever, sans that Psygnosis deal almost 30 years ago.
 

Fukuzatsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,334
Wouldn't Demon Souls Remake, Ratchet & Clank, & Returnal naturally cater to JP gamers as far as 1st party titles go?

I'd like to see them build more internal JP teams too similar to what they had with Japan studio but they do get a lot of JP support and have various dealings to get games like Granblue Fantasy Relink, Final Fantasy 7 Remake/FF 16, Genshin Impact, & investing in the China Hero Project.
If you want to know what is (currently) most successful in the PlayStation space in Japan, one only need look at the data, but ignoring the PS4 era for a moment, here are the Top 5 best-selling games on PS4/PS5 since the launch of the PS5 in 2020:
Tales of Arise - 273.580
Biohazard: Village [Resident Evil: Village] - 264.744
Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War - 188.413
Lost Judgment: Sabakarezaru Kioku - 187.623
Kimetsu no Yaiba: The Hinokami Chronicles - 161.344

As for the three you mentioned:
Demon's Souls Remake - 58.661
Ratchet & Clank: Parallel Trouble [Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart] - 24.385
Returnal - 14.749

Returnal specifically is the 3rd worst-selling SIE game in the PS5 era thus far, behind only Sackboy and Destruction All-Stars. The best-selling is Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales at 104.675, though as you can see by the Top 5 even this isn't especially remarkable, and is no doubt helped by having a PS4 SKU (whereas the other 3 do not). Among the Top 15 best-sellers on PlayStation in the same period, only 1 game is first-party (the aforementioned Spider-Man).

Looking at only the PS5 SKU, Demon's Souls Remake is just behind Miles Morales, but it's a far cry from Bloodborne or Dark Souls III.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,865
You can't buy something that's not for sale.

Lot of the toxicity around this conversation is from gamers legit thinking these acquisitions work by strolling into a company's office, asking "How many billions will it take for you to sell?", and then just cranking that dial until they say yes. Hence why so many people go "you can't outbid Microsoft", as if this is Price is Right and Microsoft wins every buyout by throwing an extra dollar on whatever Sony bids.

Some companies are not only looking for the biggest payday. Some companies will potentially sell for less money if they get other things that they want. And some will never sell at all even if they drive themselves to bankruptcy.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
Lot of the toxicity around this conversation is from gamers legit thinking these acquisitions work by strolling into a company's office, asking "How many billions will it take for you to sell?", and then just cranking that dial until they say yes. Hence why so many people go "you can't outbid Microsoft", as if this is Price is Right and Microsoft wins every buyout by throwing an extra dollar on whatever Sony bids.

Some companies are not only looking for the biggest payday. Some companies will potentially sell for less money if they get other things that they want. And some will never sell at all even if they drive themselves to bankruptcy.
Exactly.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,085
Lot of the toxicity around this conversation is from gamers legit thinking these acquisitions work by strolling into a company's office, asking "How many billions will it take for you to sell?", and then just cranking that dial until they say yes. Hence why so many people go "you can't outbid Microsoft", as if this is Price is Right and Microsoft wins every buyout by throwing an extra dollar on whatever Sony bids.

Some companies are not only looking for the biggest payday. Some companies will potentially sell for less money if they get other things that they want. And some will never sell at all even if they drive themselves to bankruptcy.
People thing these companies just go to Acquistizon and click buy now and in 3-5 business days they get their acquisition lol.
 

Cabal

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
United States
Lot of the toxicity around this conversation is from gamers legit thinking these acquisitions work by strolling into a company's office, asking "How many billions will it take for you to sell?", and then just cranking that dial until they say yes. Hence why so many people go "you can't outbid Microsoft", as if this is Price is Right and Microsoft wins every buyout by throwing an extra dollar on whatever Sony bids.

Some companies are not only looking for the biggest payday. Some companies will potentially sell for less money if they get other things that they want. And some will never sell at all even if they drive themselves to bankruptcy.
To an extent, yes, especially for a company that's not publicly traded. However, the second that shareholders and a board of directors are involved, then it becomes a lot more about money. There are offers that a publicly traded company can't refuse because they answer to the shareholders.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,332
Always a good sign when the one example people have for this "Sony does the same thing" argument is from 1993, and the group in question has been defunct for 10 years. Not that you specifically mean it in such a derogatory capacity, but Microsoft has bought two major multinational publishers in the past 2 years, and if we do want to go back further in time it is well-documented how they tried to buy out Nintendo as well. Sony has not bought a major third-party publisher really ever, sans that Psygnosis deal almost 30 years ago.

Ah yes 1994. Great argument. Lmao.
Some of us actually pay attention to history.

Sony got to make their own console because........shock, their proposed tie up/collaboration with Nintendo did not materialize.

They then used money from when they were the best electronics company on Earth to.....again, shock......get into the gaming industry.

When we get down to it, Sega and Nintendo were powerless because they had less cash. Sony can buy here, they can buy there. What they are not going to have is more cash than Microsoft.

Sony has not had to buy a publisher because they have been on top and that was not needed. Heck, they have not expanded as fast as they have recently.

We are arguing degrees. Levels.
 

W.S.

Honest Work
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,147
If you want to know what is (currently) most successful in the PlayStation space in Japan, one only need look at the data, but ignoring the PS4 era for a moment, here are the Top 5 best-selling games on PS4/PS5 since the launch of the PS5 in 2020:
Tales of Arise - 273.580
Biohazard: Village [Resident Evil: Village] - 264.744
Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War - 188.413
Lost Judgment: Sabakarezaru Kioku - 187.623
Kimetsu no Yaiba: The Hinokami Chronicles - 161.344

As for the three you mentioned:
Demon's Souls Remake - 58.661
Ratchet & Clank: Parallel Trouble [Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart] - 24.385
Returnal - 14.749

Returnal specifically is the 3rd worst-selling SIE game in the PS5 era thus far, behind only Sackboy and Destruction All-Stars. The best-selling is Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales at 104.675, though as you can see by the Top 5 even this isn't especially remarkable, and is no doubt helped by having a PS4 SKU (whereas the other 3 do not). Among the Top 15 best-sellers on PlayStation in the same period, only 1 game is first-party (the aforementioned Spider-Man).

Looking at only the PS5 SKU, Demon's Souls Remake is just behind Miles Morales, but it's a far cry from Bloodborne or Dark Souls III.

It was a genuine question since I didn't know where to check for the numbers for this but thanks for the info.

Again, it's a shame they didn't attract the JP crowd since they all seemed to have elements that I thought would cater at least on some level to the JP audience but it is interesting to see the types of games that are more successful on Playstation.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,112
Do you have a source for the fact that Psygnosis was the largest pub from Europe (no way they were the largest overall) in Europe in '92?
The source I've seen for this is a magazine scan saying 40% of PS1 games in Europe were from Psygnosis in 1995, which would have been 2 years after being acquired. I haven't seen a reliable source for this considering it's been posted a number of times.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,332
The source I've seen for this is a magazine scan saying 40% of PS1 games in Europe were from Psygnosis in 1995, which would have been 2 years after being acquired. I haven't seen a reliable source for this considering it's been posted a number of times.
Do you have a source for the fact that Psygnosis was the largest pub from Europe (no way they were the largest overall) in Europe in '92?

People, gaming magazines was how we got information on gaming in the 90's. And it was not just a source of gaming news, reviews, previews or features on potentially huge upcoming titles. It was how some got to interact with demo discs because these were often bundled with the magazine.

It was how some of us found out that Sony was looking to sell Psygnosis. Got huge bids and decided to hold on. So it is impossible to know what sources some are looking for.

Times were different back then yet people expect same level of reporting. Gaming rarely ever made mainstream news.
 
Sep 28, 2019
148
From everything I've read about why Bungie joined PS studios, it makes perfect sense why KJP would also be a fit for them. They both want to venture outside of gaming into films and maybe even anime. Yup... Perfect fit... Microsoft is probably gonna buy them though. Lol
 

aerts1js

Member
May 11, 2019
1,405
$3.6 Billion already down the drain, & they want to focus on buying up more studios instead of doing something as useful as, I don't know, trying to fix their image with the Japanese market by making games that actually caters to Japanese gamers (like they had with Ghost of Tsushima). Or building their own Japanese gaming studios.

Home console market in Japan isn't coming back.. better off spending money elsewhere.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,313
The problem with the Konami idea is that it sounds like the game dev side of the company is drastically different now, and any purchase is basically for the IP. Is that actually worthwhile to Sony, vs other studios where they would get a cohesive set of teams that might be more valuable
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,332
The onus isn't on him to prove your point, that's now how this works
I gave my point, someone else gave where it comes from. If they have an issue with the information that has been given, and there is an entire screenshot of the magazine issue pages concerning this transaction on this forum. The onus is on them to come up with a 'better source.'

They wont.

Some of us started gaming in the late 80's. Dedicated print media was where it was at for a lot of market segments. This only changed with widespread internet adoption. How any of this needs explaining is a wonder.
 
Nov 19, 2019
10,231
Home console market in Japan isn't coming back.. better off spending money elsewhere.
I think this is the hard truth and it makes me really sad. With the loss of the home console base there, a lot of the talented Japanese devs are gonna follow the audience and appeal to those sensibilities, which can be cool but really isn't my bag. That thread about Japanese 3D character art in the early PS1 days really made me nostalgic for that specific sense of priority.

Not blaming Sony or anyone really--this feels like it has been happening over the course of a few generations.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
18,659
The problem with the Konami idea is that it sounds like the game dev side of the company is drastically different now, and any purchase is basically for the IP. Is that actually worthwhile to Sony, vs other studios where they would get a cohesive set of teams that might be more valuable

I agree that it is not a very worthy purchase. The only reasons I could see Sony doing it is because all that IP gives them a lot of back catalogue for Spartacus. If they can come out and say all the Silent hills, Castlevanias, etc etc are on there, thats a pretty big boon. Also, if they believe they can get a team to work on those IP in the future. Metal Gear is probably dead, but obviously Castlevania and Silent Hill still has some life in it. Maybe contra?

But I don't think Konami is happening. If it was going to be anyone around that sort of size, it would be Capcom. They fit Sony quite well actually (general focus on good single player games while having a couple of well selling GAAS.)
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
20,087
The problem with the Konami idea is that it sounds like the game dev side of the company is drastically different now, and any purchase is basically for the IP. Is that actually worthwhile to Sony, vs other studios where they would get a cohesive set of teams that might be more valuable

It probably makes more sense to sign a long term licensing deal with Konami for Sony to develop new games based on their IP and to utilize their back catalog of games for Spartacus

As for other potential targets for Sony to look at for big acquisitions well...

EA
Take Two
Capcom
Square Enix
Bandai Namco
Sega
Ubisoft
CD Project
CyberAgent
Embracer
WB Games
Kadokawa
Koei Tecmo

That's off the top of my head, I'm sure there're plenty more. Sony's on the hunt for IP and for deals that make sense to them from a growth perspective. Ideally if they're dropping this sort of cash they'd want something with IP that can be used by their game/film/TV/anime/music divisions to maximize the return on investment. Some of the companies on that list have a long history with Sony, and many of them have multiple divisions that could slot into Sony Group's various arms just fine.

Sony can afford to make a bid for anyone on that list if they really wanted to make a big play. If Microsoft is off the board for the next 18 months while the AB deal closes then this is a window for Sony to make a move. It's anyones guess what said move might be.

There's no doubt in my mind that Sony will continue to hoover up smaller partner studios that they've worked with for years just like they've been doing in 2021. They could also make a play for something a bit smaller like Remedy or KojiPro. We already know Sony had an interest in acquiring Remedy in 2019, so maybe they're still interested.

We know SIE's focus right now is on console/PC/mobile/cloud/film/TV. Couple all of that along with Sony Group wanting more IP for all their media arms and anything's possible this year.

I still think Sony should consider ViacomCBS. If they can somehow pull together the funds then maybe Discovery/Warner might not be a bad target. Either option will net them more entertainment IP than they could ever want.
 

AmFreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,553
I gave my point, someone else gave where it comes from. If they have an issue with the information that has been given, and there is an entire screenshot of the magazine issue pages concerning this transaction on this forum. The onus is on them to come up with a 'better source.'

They wont.

Some of us started gaming in the late 80's. Dedicated print media was where it was at for a lot of market segments. This only changed with widespread internet adoption. How any of this needs explaining is a wonder.
A screenshot that is about the PS1 market in a time span where it went from 0 to 800K hardware units 2-3 years after the acquisition, so in other words something completely different than you claim.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,059
JP
People thing these companies just go to Acquistizon and click buy now and in 3-5 business days they get their acquisition lol.

Unfortunately, gamers with little real life experience often thinks it works like in...games. You know like levers, toggles, RPG stats and zero sum in a closed environment.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,332
A screenshot that is about the PS1 market in a time span where it went from 0 to 800K hardware units 2-3 years after the acquisition, so in other words something completely different than you claim.
Sigh!

Do you know that Psygnosis was still releasing third party stuff even after Sony acquired them? They were not only a developer, but a publisher. It was this that brought about some conflicts that Sony wanted to sell them; they ended up getting, if I remember correctly bids ten times what they had paid for Psygnosis.

This was how huge they were. People really need to acclimate themselves with gaming history.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,348
Given that Sony's spending 1.2 billion dollars to help retain Bungie's talent, it's clear that IP isn't the sole factor here. Sony's hunting for IP and talent.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,085
Unfortunately, gamers with little real life experience often thinks it works like in...games. You know like levers, toggles, RPG stats and zero sum in a closed environment.
lmao right. When it's really grey and is pretty much aligned and planned for a long time to decide how they want to run respective businesses and not just reacting immediately to stuff.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,085
Given that Sony's spending 1.2 billion dollars to help retain Bungie's talent, it's clear that IP isn't the sole factor here. Sony's hunting for IP and talent.
Talent is very hard to come by right now in many sectors so locking down some of the best around. It's one of the biggest pieces to success. If you can't ramp up resources in a timely manner for your games def can be screwed. And from what I saw today from GT7. Extremely high Quality,polish and establishing new industry standards is what sony is striving for.