Gotta admit, watching everyone at Disney play the Blame Game for TROS is more entertaining than the entire ST...
the PT is still much worse than anything that came out from the ST.
the wound is still fresh sadly.
Yes it was, he says he won't have time to save her. How is it so hard to understand basic storytelling.Because it wasn't out of the way of his mission to save Rey. He wasn't just gonna dip with nowhere to go and no pilots. You keep trying to make a casual mention of "I have an idea" when prompted by Han Solo that they're running out of time to be definitive proof that he cared about the cause and wasn't primarily there to rescue Rey. It doesn't work. And the film doesn't try to frame it in anyway shape or form as that sort of character beat.
And I conceded this point. He did it because it was convenient.
I do mostly agree with you but the thing with the PT is that it ended on a relative high note compared to the two films before it....whereas this trilogy ended with most of the excitement just gone.
This person didn't edit TROSImagine editing the absolute nonsense that is TROS and then talking shit about literally any other movie.
He says they won't have much time if the resistance comes in and wins because the space station was about to be blown up. He was being very literal. Why are people who discuss the ST so bad at observing basic shit.
A reminder that earlier in the film Finn had already fought the first order, under similar circumstances. He didn't run away from fights whenever they presented themselves.
Arguably that moment is the defining moment where he faces his fear of the FO but if anything it reinforces his fear first and foremost. So it's basically back to square 1 when it comes to fearing the first order. He faced his fear and lost. Him trying to protect Rey matters more in that moment than him facing his fear.
Was about to be blown up because he disabled the shields. lol. He is making a choice to help both.He says they won't have much time if the resistance comes in and wins because the space station was about to be blown up. He was being very literal. Why are people who discuss the ST so bad at observing basic shit.
He's not making a choice between deactivating the shields and saving Rey.
Either way he would've fought though. There is a difference. But Finn didn't have the chance to run away in either scenario.I'm not saying he ran away from fights but I think there is a big difference between fighting stormtroopers while being saved by Han Solo and facing the big bad of the movie by himself knowing "Solo isn't here to save you"
Because Han insisted that they find a way to disable the shields. Finn only provided a shaky idea at best when prompted after being called out on his BS. There is not a single ounce of self reflection on Finn's part that would lead to character development and a sudden care for the cause. This all happens in an incredibly short amount of time. You're basically arguing that his character development occurs over the course of five-ten minutes. And that we should just ignore his dialogue and frame it completely differently so that it appears more heroic, in order to get this version of Finn that by all accounts doesn't actually exist in the film. And your metric isWas about to be blown up because he disabled the shields. lol. He is making a choice to help both.
This is my take too. My biggest problem with the new trilogy is that they did not have a story to tell. It was just like "Let's make more movies, what can possible go wrong, its SW !!!!"Not Johnson's fault even if you believe this guy. The top brass at Lucasfilm needed to have coherent vision of the whole arc and they clearly did not.
Either way he would've fought though. There is a difference. But Finn didn't have the chance to run away in either scenario.
Because Han insisted that they find a way to disable the shields. Finn only provided a shaky idea at best when prompted after being called out on his BS. There is not a single ounce of self reflection on Finn's part that would lead to character development and a sudden care for the cause. This all happens in an incredibly short amount of time. You're basically arguing that his character development occurs over the course of five-ten minutes. And that we should just ignore his dialogue and frame it completely differently so that it appears more heroic, in order to get this version of Finn that by all accounts doesn't actually exist in the film. And your metric is he's cares because he's not standing still, that's not what caring for a cause means. ESPECIALLY not in SW where characters are entirely defined by their dedication to ideologies.
Like I said AtoC is just the boringest but AtoC wasn't damaging.
TRoS is THE most damaging SW movie
TFA set up Rey's parentage for a big twist later down the line, and TLJ delivered a big twist, even if it wasn't the twist Abrams wanted (or would later pull anyway with TRoS).
TFA set up Snoke as an explicit Emperor replacement, and TLJ gave us Snoke doing everything Palpatine ever did in the OT, and more, with more actual characterization and story relevance to boot despite getting killed off before the final act.
TFA set up Luke's return, and TRJ spent half the movie on him, gave him a complete and compelling character arc, and set him up again for a major role in IX (which was then squandered).
The Last Jedi didn't "undo" anything; everything in that film was a natural development of what occurred in The Force Awakens. If Markey and Abrams couldn't see a better way to follow up on those developments than "toss everything; Palpatine's back", then they're the ones who paid the price for their lack of vision.
Rey's twist in TLJ doesn't fit with her visions in TFA with the lightsaber, or explain how she just 'knows' how to use force abilities that Jedi take years training to use.
So? Finn could've went to find her instead. He chose to help them, what if capturing Phasma went wrong? I'm arguing that he made a choice, something that you deny.Because Han insisted that they find a way to disable the shields. Finn only provided a shaky idea at best when prompted after being called out on his BS. There is not a single ounce of self reflection on Finn's part that would lead to character development and a sudden care for the cause. This all happens in an incredibly short amount of time. You're basically arguing that his character development occurs over the course of five-ten minutes. And that we should just ignore his dialogue and frame it completely differently so that it appears more heroic, in order to get this version of Finn that by all accounts doesn't actually exist in the film.
That basically boils down to every character criticism in the first two ST movies tbh.han shaky development is affecting how people expect for characters to develop
No he couldn't have. Rey literally freed herself lmao. Finn wasn't in anyway shape or form going to just dip and look for Rey in an enemy base without the two heavily armed and heavily experienced war heroes.
He was already in the process of trying to cover his tracks. Him coming up with an idea to capture Phasma when prompted was the payoff for this line:
JJ set up Luke/Anakin's lost blue lightsaber as a mysterious MacGuffin. Rian had Luke dismissively toss that worthless device over his shoulder.TLJ didn't undo a single goddamned thing.
The "JJ was left with nothing, his hands were tied by TLJ's ending!" line of defense completely crumbled into dust the moment the Trevorrow script leaked; some of the clunkier dialogue warts and all, that script actually followed up on both sequels and even the OT/PT in a way that felt completely logical without half a movie of fetch quests or Palpatine's Behind It All.
So at no point did he undo anything. None of those are things being undone.JJ set up Luke/Anakin's lost blue lightsaber as a mysterious MacGuffin. Rian had Luke dismissively toss that worthless device over his shoulder.
JJ tried to make Kylo Ren the scary new Darth Vader. Rian had Snoke say "Take that stupid helmet off, it makes you look like an idiot."
JJ tried to create Snoke as the mysterious new Emperor. Rian killed Snoke and put Kylo Ren in charge.
JJ tried to set up the mystery of Rey's parentage. Rian said that Rey is a nobody, because parentage doesn't matter.
Luke catches the lightsaber in RotS. Kylo rebuilds his helmet in RotS. Without Snoke, JJ resorts to bringing back Palpatine for RotS. RotS says that Palpatine was Rey's grandfather. JJ was clearly in love with these ideas that Rian trashed.
JJ set up Luke/Anakin's lost blue lightsaber as a mysterious MacGuffin. Rian had Luke dismissively toss that worthless device over his shoulder.
JJ tried to make Kylo Ren the scary new Darth Vader. Rian had Snoke say "Take that stupid helmet off, it makes you look like an idiot."
JJ tried to create Snoke as the mysterious new Emperor. Rian killed Snoke and put Kylo Ren in charge.
JJ tried to set up the mystery of Rey's parentage. Rian said that Rey is a nobody, because parentage doesn't matter.
Luke catches the lightsaber in RotS. Kylo rebuilds his helmet in RotS. Without Snoke, JJ resorts to bringing back Palpatine for RotS. RotS says that Palpatine was Rey's grandfather. JJ was clearly in love with these ideas that Rian trashed.
JJ's former editor (who didn't work on Rise of Skywalker) isn't saying that TLJ was bad, she actually says it was good, and that it tried to deconstruct the franchise to open the franchise up to new possibilities. But she says that she has some sympathy for JJ (who clearly fell on his face), for being asked to follow an act like Rian Johnson's, an act which had just previously deliberately kicked JJ square in his memberberries.
The fault lies not in JJ or Rian, but in Lucasfilm/Disney choosing JJ to come back for the third movie after Rian pummeled JJ with the second. Lucasfilm/Disney should've let JJ make all three, or let Rian make all three, or let Colin Trevorrow make the third one.
It's just a mediocre ass trilogy of moves, with a classic jumping the shark in the third film. It's basically the Hobbit trilogy.
If they weren't Star Wars, the movies would never be talked about on their own merits/failures. They are completely forgettable.
If modern day internet discussion was around for the prequels, the discourse would make the ST reactions look mild.
That basically boils down to every character criticism in the first two ST movies tbh.
"Oh this can't happen, because that's different from the OT's character development."
Drives me nuts.
He's not wrongYou will never admit that you were wrong huh? But keep quoting me it seems like you enjoy that.
Okay I have to respond to this right here because Rey does have a consistent character arc through both those movies regarding this regardless of what the intentions may have been from the different writers involved in it. When we meet her in TFA she's clinging onto a faint memory of her parents so hard that she's content to barely get by as a scavenger so she can stay at the place they left her because she's absolutely convinced herself they'll return one day. She's so paralyzed by the idea of having nothing to tie her identity to that she can barely even aspire to anything else. By TLJ she's so desperate for someone to decide her identity for her that she's openly asking people to and having conversations about it with the man she literally watched murder his own father. Realizing that she'll never get the easy answer she wants is the most devastating thing she could learn, but it's also empowering because it forces her to decide her own identity and gives her the freedom to choose her own path for the first time in her life.JJ tried to set up the mystery of Rey's parentage. Rian said that Rey is a nobody, because parentage doesn't matter.
tbc disney most likely mandate that Kylo had to be redeemed snd he couldn't be the big bad, I want to believe that JJ isn't so stupid to think that bringing back Palpatine for the last film was a great idea.
Kylo got redeemed in the original episode 9 too despite being the big bad. JJ just tried to fit the conclusion of the last two trilogies in this one.tbc disney most likely mandate that Kylo had to be redeemed snd he couldn't be the big bad, I want to believe that JJ isn't so stupid to think that bringing back Palpatine for the last film was a great idea.
I blame the people that excessively praised The Force Awakens when that movie went downhill after they leave Jakku
JJ is only ever able to do fan service. He's not actually good at directing movies. You would think people would know that by now.TLJ took the piles of mystery boxes and cheap fan service JJ created with TFA and went somewhere interesting, even if there were some flaws. The ending of TLJ left JJ with a *huge* opportunity to go just about anywhere he wanted and he decided to just circle back for more fan service.
Precisely. But it's easier for people to complain about Johnson or JJ.
Actually it's like if you were hired to write the 3rd book in a story that's been dead for 10 years, you write the opening the same as the last two books, fuck off after a few chapters, and then decide to come back 2/3 through after someone had to pick up your slack. And it's worth pointing out that nothing in The Last Jedi made JJ make the decisions he made in The Rise of Skywalker. Like there's no bad decision in TROS that you can point to and say "oh that's because [thing in TLJ]". He just made a mediocre SW movie.It was hard I think for J.J. and the co-writer to decide what to do [after] with it. It's like if someone wrote the middle of your novel. Now how do you get the end of the novel?
Yeah I can see that. Got to sell the merch after all. It's like when TFA came out and it was all Kylo merch rather than Rey or Finn.tbc disney most likely mandate that Kylo had to be redeemed snd he couldn't be the big bad, I want to believe that JJ isn't so stupid to think that bringing back Palpatine for the last film was a great idea.
I don't think fan service is bad but I think TFA and TRoS take it too far, it feels like they have no creativity (though TLJ is just as bad in its own way imo)
Not Johnson's fault even if you believe this guy. The top brass at Lucasfilm needed to have coherent vision of the whole arc and they clearly did not.
whatIn conclusion, both were at fault: Rian had an ego and tried to leave his mark sacrificing continuity
Rey's twist in TLJ doesn't fit with her visions in TFA with the lightsaber, or explain how she just 'knows' how to use force abilities that Jedi take years training to use.
Snoke may as well have been a random Stormtropper for all we discover about him in TLJ, where the hell this powerful Sith Lord came from when is a rule of two would have been nice, what's with those scars on the face that look like a lightsaber slashed it, looks like a story there? Nope, he dead and you get no answers to anything.
Luke was a fair enough direction to go, it's just many people felt it out of character, the guy who saw redemption in Darth Vader almost killing his nephew who didn't actually do anything bad yet, then running off to be a hermit.
Would have been a sight to see. Bringing on JJ was the worst thing they did for the franchise, and I didn't realize how bad it was until he wasn't being propped up by Kasdan and other's ideas/conceptsShould have given Rian Johnson full control of the new trilogy from the start.
Abrams fucked up Trek, and proceeded to destroy Star Wars.