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Joel Schumacher’s Batman Forever - A Misunderstood Masterpiece

The Adder

The Adder

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Oct 25, 2017
18,353

I don't generally love HiTop Films' videos, and I certainly wouldn't go as far as the title of this one. There are some real flaws and crazy decisions when it comes to Batman Forever (*COUGHTWOFACECOUGH*). But I have always maintained that, unlike Batman & Robin, Batman Forever is a good film stuck inside of a bad film.

(Also, I may be a bit biased towards this video as I have said since high school and continue to say that Kilmer was easily the best live action Batman and only limited by the script that didn't let him show that often enough. But fuck me that "So you make the kill" scene is still the best performance anyone has had as Bruce Wayne on screen and the only portrayal of the character that out does it is Ace's final moments in Justice League.)
 
DrForester

DrForester

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Oct 25, 2017
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It certainly looks better when compared to the movie that came after it, but I still think it was a pretty bad film.

Given a better script I do think Kilmer would have been a pretty good Batman.
 
Mars

Mars

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Oct 25, 2017
1,988
I fell asleep about an hour into the movie when my mom took me and my younger sister to see it.

Haven't seen it since. I might give it another chance, being older and what not.

...on second thought. Nah.
 
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shaneo632

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
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Oct 29, 2017
29,116
Wrexham, Wales
It's a good film but masterpiece? lmao. But I know the video is just being hyperbolic for clicks so I ain't giving them the click.
 
vatstep

vatstep

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Oct 25, 2017
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Firebricks

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Jan 27, 2018
2,154
I think the movie is kinda fun but its definitely not very good. The idea that its a "Misunderstood Masterpiece" says to me that this person simply misunderstood how much of a mess it it.
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
Can't misunderstand it
Burton left and it in came Joel

It's not easy to watch. Once is enough.
 
MrPink

MrPink

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Oct 27, 2017
3,319
I don't think it's good but there are nuggets of something that could have been more interesting. Granted, this was the first film I ever saw in theaters at age 5, so it always left an impression on me.
 
Farmboy

Farmboy

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Oct 27, 2017
1,159
I read an earlier draft years and years ago, I think it was bij Sam Hamm and obviously intended to be directed by Burton. Don't recall a lot other than that Two Face had a much more prominent role, and that my overall impression was that it had the potential to be Burton's best Bat-film.

There's still some of that version left, beneath the star-driven, toy-driven, technicolor veneer of Schumacher, but it's not a lot. I think I may actually prefer Batman & Robin in the end; at least that's undiluted Schumacher-campy Batman and in that sense somewhat consistent. Forever is just a mess.
 
Liquid Plejades

Liquid Plejades

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Mar 3, 2018
4,531
People really need to come to terms with the fact that some of the things they like aren't really masterpieces, whether it's music, book, comics, movies and so on. But there nothing wrong with that. If someone loves this movie just like how millions love The Room; that's totally ok. But all the jumping through hoops to elevate it to something it isn't is just kinda embarrassing tbh. Sorry if that's rude. Like I love a LOT of garbage tier media and not ashamed of it, but not gonna defend it in a courtroom as some masterpiece. I think accepting it as trash has merit on its own and has a certain charm.
 
Disco

Disco

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Oct 25, 2017
11,517
lmao, fuck no.

I do like Val Kilmer though, Nicole Kidman looks great in here as well and Goldenthal's Batman soundtrack is underrated.
 
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The Adder

The Adder

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Oct 25, 2017
18,353
Farmboy said:
I read an earlier draft years and years ago, I think it was bij Sam Hamm and obviously intended to be directed by Burton. Don't recall a lot other than that Two Face had a much more prominent role, and that my overall impression was that it had the potential to be Burton's best Bat-film.

There's still some of that version left, beneath the star-driven, toy-driven, technicolor veneer of Schumacher, but it's not a lot. I think I may actually prefer Batman & Robin in the end; at least that's undiluted Schumacher-campy Batman and in that sense somewhat consistent. Forever is just a mess.
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Samm Hamm never wrote a script for Batman Forever. Burton was never set to direct Batman 3.
 
RedVejigante

RedVejigante

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Aug 18, 2018
5,694
While I honestly kind of appreciated the neon, Dick Sprang by way of Blade Runner aesthetic of Gotham City, this movie will always be terrible if for no other reason than by way of its complete misfire in terms of its villains. Tommy Lee Jones is generically chewing the scenery as Two-Face, and Jim Carrey just makes me want to go back and watched Frank Gorshin in the superior Riddler performance.
 
New002

New002

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Oct 25, 2017
1,720
I genuinely enjoy Batman Forever and have watched it countless times, but a masterpiece it ain't, and that's alright.
 
Keldroc

Keldroc

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Oct 27, 2017
12,049
The trend of "shitty movie I saw a lot when I was 12 is actually really good really" needs to stop immediately. Not everything you like is good, not everything considered bad is misunderstood. Sometimes a bad movie is just a bad movie, and that certainly applies to Batman Forever.
 
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The Adder

The Adder

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Oct 25, 2017
18,353
Keldroc said:
The trend of "shitty movie I saw a lot when I was 12 is actually really good really" needs to stop immediately. Not everything you like is good, not everything considered bad is misunderstood. Sometimes a bad movie is just a bad movie, and that certainly applies to Batman Forever.
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See, you say this, but I can also go on Youtube and find an equal amount of "great movie I saw a lot when I was 12 is actually really bad really" videos. Because people grow up, their tastes change, and they reevaluate opinions they once held, resulting in some of those opinions changing for better or worse. It's not a trend. It's just human nature.

(Mind, my opinion of this particular movie has been pretty consistent for the last 16 years, but that's just me).
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

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Oct 25, 2017
6,934
Keldroc said:
The trend of "shitty movie I saw a lot when I was 12 is actually really good really" needs to stop immediately. Not everything you like is good, not everything considered bad is misunderstood. Sometimes a bad movie is just a bad movie, and that certainly applies to Batman Forever.
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People were mad because it was a sequel to the Burton movies, but it's a decent revival to the Adam West show.

Unless you want to argue that Adam West Batman wasn't that great to begin with...

There's nothing wrong with the actors or the characters. I don't see the hate, albeit under its proper context.
 
Kinketsu

Kinketsu

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Nov 17, 2017
1,999
I was super hyped for it as a child/young teenager as I liked Batman and enjoyed the first two but no, this is massive overcorrection. It is pretty awful. I watched it a bunch of times because I bought the VHS as soon as it came out, kind of to make sure my cinema impressions were correct and partly just to own all the Batman films. It was probably the movie that convinced me "these movies" werent for me anymore so I probably owe it for pushing me toward other stuff.

I saw it so many times when I was 13 or so that I can remember the exact three moments or touches that I liked out of the whole movie.

1) Opening with Batman in the middle of action ala James Bond, somewhat ruined by the "BOILING ACID!" guy.

2) In the same sequence, Batman hanging on to Two-Faces chopper with his cape blowing and then head butting? through the windscreen

3) Bruce using a Running Man style tube tunnel system to drop from Wayne Enterprises to the Batcave.

That's it. None of that makes up for Tommy Lee Jones, Jim Carrey, washing day kung fu, "holy rusted metal", the mind control gags, the cheap sets, etc.
 
Metal Gear Miyamoto

Metal Gear Miyamoto

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Oct 28, 2017
838
Netherlands
While I'm not a fan of his Batman films in general, I will say I'm glad this video highlights that Joel Schumacher was a great filmmaker. Incredibly underrated. People seem to shit on him because of his Batman films and Phantom of the Opera, but I've never bought that narrative. For one thing, it's way too obvious from both Forever and B&R how much attention was given to everything in terms of production design.

Great to see this guy's video highlight that the same designer went on to win an oscar for Once Upon A Time in Hollywood.

Another great shout out is to Jim Carrey's performance, which has been very obviously cribbed from by other films in the same genre.
 
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The Adder

The Adder

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Oct 25, 2017
18,353
Metal Gear Miyamoto said:
While I'm not a fan of his Batman films in general, I will say I'm glad this video highlights that Joel Schumacher was a great filmmaker. Incredibly underrated. People seem to shit on him because of his Batman films and Phantom of the Opera, but I've never bought that narrative. For one thing, it's way too obvious from both Forever and B&R how much attention was given to everything in terms of production design.

Great to see this guy's video highlight that the same designer went on to win an oscar for Once Upon A Time in Hollywood.

Another great shout out is to Jim Carrey's performance, which has been very obviously cribbed from by other films in the same genre.
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I've got $5 that says you are literally the only other person in this topic who actually watched the video in the OP.
 
sushimonster85

sushimonster85

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Oct 27, 2017
587
Does anyone else find it odd that Drew Barrymore is just sort of barely in this?? Like she was a famous name, and yet she plays a totally minor side character.
 

Karsha

Member
May 1, 2020
2,562
I always felt it was a great movie, as a child the Bat armor was hype and Robin doesn't feel boring in this one. The villains are both over acting but there wasn't a manual on how to be a comic book villain back than, you could say the same about Nicolson's Joker, to his "luck" Joker is kinda crazy and goes well with over acting unlike Riddle and 2 Face. Val Kilmer is the most underrated Batman, he is also a great Bruce.
 

Randomly Generated

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,475
Keldroc said:
The trend of "shitty movie I saw a lot when I was 12 is actually really good really" needs to stop immediately. Not everything you like is good, not everything considered bad is misunderstood. Sometimes a bad movie is just a bad movie, and that certainly applies to Batman Forever.
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In this essay I will show that "Bangarang!" is the most significant contribution to the English language since Shakespeare
 
Rockodile

Rockodile

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Dec 7, 2018
1,154
While I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, I have a serious soft spot for Batman Forever. Really fun movie, from a sadly underappreciated film maker. I greatly enjoy hiTops films' videos; I'll definitely be sure to give this a watch.
 
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