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Join me as I make my way through the Malazan Book of the Fallen! (Currently: 7 - Reaper's Gale)
- Thread starter Altazor
- Start date
- Entertainment
Wow! That is a bargain. I already have the 10 books in the main series on my kobo but it was worth getting the 17 book deal for the ones I don't have.
Also having read your thoughts on Chapter 7 has reinvigorated my desire to finish my reread Altazor - Book 8 has been a long drawn out process but I'm finally nearly done. I don't remember hating it this much on my first read and I've since learned I'm not the only one who finds it tough going.
Also having read your thoughts on Chapter 7 has reinvigorated my desire to finish my reread Altazor - Book 8 has been a long drawn out process but I'm finally nearly done. I don't remember hating it this much on my first read and I've since learned I'm not the only one who finds it tough going.
I'm glad this thread has been useful! :D
You know, it's not the first time I've heard about Toll the Hounds being a bit divisive. I think people who like that book *really* like it and those who don't are really vocal in how much they don't like it - I think it might be because of its structure? I don't know, I haven't tried to read much *about* it for fear of spoilers. Something about its stucture or overarching narrative, if I remember correctly.
Still... one book and a half for me to even reach that point 😂
You have (character in future novel) in front of you so I'm a little envious :)
Been thinking of starting this series. Jeff Cannata from the DLC and Filmcast podcasts started a book club on these earlier this year and he keeps touting how amazing they are.
There are sections/groupings I definitely enjoy more than others. I find the whole Saemankelyk thing grim and depressing.
the opinion of someone who's more or less around the midpoint of the series (basically reaching the middle of Book 6 of 10), I can say it's been damn good but there are some... caveats, I guess.
First of all - the length. We're talking about numerous books that are around 1000 pages in length each except for the first. Unless you're super fast reader and/or have lots of time to spend reading, it'll take you probably more than a year to finish the series. Which means it's basically a lengthy commitment because this is a dense series. Erikson doesn't really go for handholding and he throws a lot of made up words at the reader throughout the series and more or less expects the reader to connect the dots by themselves - meaning that it's easy to get lost considering the already aforementioned length, and *especially* if you stop reading and then come back after a while (as it has happened to me!)
On the other hand, Erikson is quite good at weaving those separate threads throughout the book so they all come together quite nicely by the time the climax rolls around - so even if you're somewhat lost in regards to what does "that term" mean or something like that, it's likely that you get at the very least some notions as you just keep on reading. Basically it still makes sense even if you're unclear on the details and the minutiae of the narrative (or even of the "worldbuilding").
Also - the first book, Gardens of the Moon, might not be that great of an entry point... but *it is* the entry point, so we take what we can get. I think, especially compared to the following two books, that it suffers from being written almost a decade earlier than its sequels and Erikson's prose had gotten better during that time, so the first book is kinda rougher. It's still a worthy read, IMHO, especially because it does a lot of heavy lifting so that Book 3, Memories of Ice, can maximize its impact. I wouldn't have liked MoI as much if GOTM hadn't done its work earlier - and it's not a pretty job at times, but it's effective.
But apart from that... yeah, I've had a blast with some characters. Others have made my skin crawl. Some moments have been glorious, others have been intimate and delicate, others surprisingly subtle, and others just downright brutal, enough to almost break my heart and leaving me wanting to throw the book at a wall. And I don't regret it at all (so far).
Oh. You could probably make a FYI thread about it. I might buy this bundle, it'll give me a digital of all the books I own and then some of the ones I don't. One day I might get around to reading and rereading these. Maybe I'll do it later if no one else is up for it.
Edit. Unrelated trivia. By lack of my own creativity I created my character in BG3. Her name is... Sorry.
Edit. Unrelated trivia. By lack of my own creativity I created my character in BG3. Her name is... Sorry.
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OK Just finished Chapter 11 and that means I'm done with Book 2 of The Bonehunters!
I, uh... look, there's *a lot* to say because I didn't have an update for the previous two chapters either so I'll have the threadmarked update in my next post and that will contain more longform thoughts about the past few chapters. This one's more of a visceral reaction:
what the fuck at the end of C11. I definitely did NOT see that coming 😨
I definitely wonder what's next for those characters... if there's a "next" for them. I cannot end like that! Can it...?
I, uh... look, there's *a lot* to say because I didn't have an update for the previous two chapters either so I'll have the threadmarked update in my next post and that will contain more longform thoughts about the past few chapters. This one's more of a visceral reaction:
what the fuck at the end of C11. I definitely did NOT see that coming 😨
I definitely wonder what's next for those characters... if there's a "next" for them. I cannot end like that! Can it...?
Oh I finished the main series in January (Oct 2020 - Jan 2023 with some months long breaks between books). Gotta say I was pretty disappointed in the conclusion. Book 9 had some cool stuff (introduction of a new oil-infused perspectives which was much appreciated and probably some of the coolest depictions in terms of social structure), but overall the back half is
just endless walking through desert Seriously half this series is spent in that type of location and it just grew grating after the mid point. Book2, Book4, Book6, Book9, Book10.... 😮💨
A lot of plot lines are just snuffed out and I guess some of them are continued or concluded in the ICE books. Sexism, sexual assault, and wonky gender dynamics kinda just continues to ramp up as the series continues past the mid-way point. I think book9 8 has a line about how a woman's natural state is to be pregnant lmao . "Both eminated that strange completeness that only pregnant women possessed... Besides, there was in those auras something animal that made it all seem proper, natural, as if this was exclusively and precisely what women were for." (I know one line from the perspective of one character in a 1200 page book with 100s of characters, but these types of eye-rolling sentiments kept popping up from everyone at some point or another).
Ranking:
1. Midnight Tides
2. Memories of Ice
3. Gardens of the Moon
4. House of Chains
5. Deadhouse Gates
6. Dust of Dreams
7. Toll the Hounds
8. Bonehunters
9. The Crippled God
10. Reapers Gale
By the end, I just really wanted to see the end and powered through, much like the army. If I were to honestly recommend this series, (well I wouldn't because I'd feel weird telling someone to read it with all the sexual violence and weird gender stuff going on), I'd say just read the first half which is AMAZING. It doesn't end in any type of satisfying conclusion and a lot of the characters arcs are left opened.
just endless walking through desert Seriously half this series is spent in that type of location and it just grew grating after the mid point. Book2, Book4, Book6, Book9, Book10.... 😮💨
A lot of plot lines are just snuffed out and I guess some of them are continued or concluded in the ICE books. Sexism, sexual assault, and wonky gender dynamics kinda just continues to ramp up as the series continues past the mid-way point. I think book
Ranking:
1. Midnight Tides
2. Memories of Ice
3. Gardens of the Moon
4. House of Chains
5. Deadhouse Gates
6. Dust of Dreams
7. Toll the Hounds
8. Bonehunters
9. The Crippled God
10. Reapers Gale
By the end, I just really wanted to see the end and powered through, much like the army. If I were to honestly recommend this series, (well I wouldn't because I'd feel weird telling someone to read it with all the sexual violence and weird gender stuff going on), I'd say just read the first half which is AMAZING. It doesn't end in any type of satisfying conclusion and a lot of the characters arcs are left opened.
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I couldn't remember C.11 ending so looked it up. Mr. Erikson sure likes his cliffhangers.
it was like a slightly better version of the Book 1 (C6) ending... but, since he *does* like his cliffhangers, I can see those chapter endings getting a bit tiresome if overused. Let's hope Book 3 doesn't end in a similar way now 😂
Although to be fair to Steve - he does have a habit of killing (not all of) my favourite characters.
so he is basically what people thought George R.R. Martin was (?) 😂
oh no, I'm bracing for my favs dying. I DON'T WANNA ;_;
TBH Chapter 11 + Book 2 are done!
Ok, ok, it's time to talk about a shitload of things that I haven't mentioned in a while. Will try (probably fail) to not overdo it and just write an interminable wall of text 'cause it's been a while since I read C9 and C10, so my memory's getting a bit fuzzy.
Let's get right to it, shall we?
Let's get right to it, shall we?
- Everything about Taralack Veed 'replacing' Mappo as Icarium's companion fills me with sadness and dread. What Taralack says to Icarium about "bringing justice" and how/why he slaughtered everybody in the city of E'napatha N'apur just gives me chills. Given what we know about Mappo and his relationship with Icarium this feels like textbook manipulation and it's so gross. Well done Steve :P
- And it gets even worse when we learn just right after, from the mouth of Heboric, the (apparently) true reason why Icarium slaughtered everyone there - because someone accidentally killed Icarium's companion with an arrow. No grand gesture, not to rid the world of evil... just a big burst of rage and grief. And that's (part of) why the whole thing with Taralack Veed gives me the creeps. Apart from that I really enjoyed Heboric and Scillara's conversation about the gods and whether they're all just different facets of a single insane one.
- Dejim Nebrahl gets some depth (wow!), he's not just a power hungry creature bent on devouring his way to the top, he's also somewhat of a... benevolent dictator type, I think. He's appalled by slavers, for example, especially those who enslave and trade children (I wonder what he would've thought of Bidithal) but, again, he wants to be the top dog so he can enforce said policies.
- I still cannot understand anything about the relationship between Iskaral Pust and Mogora. They're apparently husband and wife but they're so antagonistic and apparently opposed in terms of goals I can't even begin to process how and why they're married in the first place. Great source of comedy but I also see how they can get tiring as a pairing for the reader, they're *too much*. We see how powerful Pusk is, too, with how makes Dejim run away with a demonstration of sorcery - and he's the one who finds the barely breathing Mappo.
- Eveything about the Mappo healing process is so... mysterious. Mogora does something with the moon's light, apparently Mappo will come back somehow different (there's always a price), we learn from Cotillion that Mogora's loyal to one Ardata (and Mogora turns into a bunch of spiders and goes away... *shudder* fucking spiders, I hate them). Of course, much later on we see Mappo's perspective during his "coma" and a certain conversation, so... we'll get to that.
- WHO OR WHAT IS ISKARAL'S MULE? It's not the first time we'd learn one of his... companions? Acquaintances? Is not what we think at first (like Apsalar's father)
- Quick Ben, Kalam and Stormy reaching the ruins of what used to be Y'ghatan is also chilling, considering Quick Ben seems to have deduced quite quickly what happened and whether it was intentional or not. Of course this leads to a long awaited reunion! Apsalar, a.k.a. the assassin formerly known as Sorry, is reunited with her Bridgeburner mates... and it's not a particularly warm encounter - they're basically trading barbs but it's not like the typical "we're a bunch of ragtag soldiers in the same squad", it's more of a "we're all dangerous and we better stay clear of each other's lives otherwise it'd be terrible for everyone involved" type of feeling. QB basically treats her as a god's pawn, she retorts they all have the stench of different gods on them (Hood, Cotillion, the T'lan Imass Fire of Life) and that while those gods might be united towards a singular goal (an enemy that might not be "an" enemy, but various) said alliance might not last. At the very least they agree to travel together - but then again, getting into the 14th was part of Apsalar's mission from The Rope...
- Stormy learning about what happened to Truth was a great, heavy moment.
- I'm gonna put all the Ganoes & TTG talk in this point to avoid repeating myself at different times: I... don't think I'm grasping everything with this plotline? Seems deliberate though. I know Paran is going to (and ends up) liberating the Deragoth, that somehow the Hounds of Shadow entered the realm that party is currently in and somehow "rejoined" the Hounds of Dark but I have no idea what that entails - is it a physical thing (as in "they've fusioned/merged")? Is it metaphorical? I have no idea. There's probably an element of the language barrier here since I often found parts of this plotline somewhat difficult to grasp and I'm not sure if it's, again, said language barrier or because Erikson is being purposefully obtuse in regards to details (only to reveal more of them later). So... Deragoth are freed, Paran speaks to Shadowthrone (and he seems more and more unhinged with every passing appearance) but we don't see what's their endgame here. The people from the wrecked caravan they found earlier are found in makeshift temples at the feet of the Deragoth statues, and they were offered as ritual sacrifices (ugh) to the Hounds. Oh well. Also, in escaping the Deragoth, the caravan passes through (what I assume is) Hood's realm and we realize the dead there have been left behind (!) by the God of Death.. what the hell is with Hood? What is he scheming? Then they end up appearing in a mountain glacier, they fall across the mountainside with disastrous results (including dead Guild shareholders) and, hilariously, one of the dead people from Hood's realm hitching a ride somehow. Again, a lot of what happens is interesting but I don't know "what" is happening and sometimes I get lost so I'm finding it difficult to connect with this particular plotline.
- The conversation between Heboric and Scillara in C11 is also fascinating to me because, as far as I know, it's the first time we are told "what" the Chained God is offering its prospective followers and... well, it's basically paradise (as we more or less understand it in Abrahamic religions). Which makes me wonder: is TCG essentially a (re)version of a YHVH-like entity? Whatever the answer might be I really liked the discussion here, the idea of finding meaning in a life that might be rendered meaningless if the promise of free absolution ends up being true and the correlative idea of enacting justice (that word again) if said idea ends up being not only a lie but THE ultimate lie. In contrast to Paran & co.'s sections, I was really enjoying the sections with Cutter's group.
- I also enjoyed Erikson's prose ("Crushed and scattered, the tiles that had once made the mosaic of Mappo Runt's life were little more than faint glimmers...") in Mappo's resurrection/dream conversation with... someone. Is that the aforementioned Ardata? If she is, then I wonder (obviously) what's her endgame here. She tells Mappo about what happened with Icarium and now Taralack Veed, and the role of the Nameless Ones in "making" Icarium and now "using" him. What for? Again - what's the endgame here? Man, I am intrigued with this. Definitely. And I can't imagine how Mappo must feel about Icarium and Taralack.
- '"Don't mind us,' Iskaral Pust said with a blood-smeared smile, 'we're married.''" I loved that moment. I laughed out loud.
- On the other hand, MAN THAT ENDING. Comes out of nowhere (just like the T'lan Imass materializing from dust) and just punches you right in the gut without hesitation. Brutal. Brutal, too, Heboric's closing thoughts - brutal and heartbreaking ("Oh, I have done nothing worthwhile in this all-too-long life"). Damn.
- Am I wrong or C11 is literally the first time the section/book title (in this case "Beneath this Name") appears in a relevant chapter? Heboric's musings say that verbatim ("Destriant, what lies beneath this name? Harvester of souls, possessing the power – and the right – to slay in a god's name. To slay, to heal, to deliver justice. But justice in whose eyes?") and I don't recall that happening on previous books, except (obviously) when it's the name of a place (Darujhistan, Raraku, Capustan to name some examples). Didn't feel gratuitous or forced but thematically relevant IMHO so... well done!
- "'The Eres'al, who would one day give rise to the Imass, who would one day give rise to humans.'" Well thanks for the handy summary, Steve :P
- "'I'd kill the mule.'" Yet another great Iskaral Pust moment, lol
Well Hedge (along with Fiddler) was a fave of mine so as you've recently read dead doesn't always mean gone in this series.
I also love the interactions between Pust and Mogora and as I have no fear of spiders (quite like them in the house for their insect munching diet) it never occurred to me how creepy she could be as a character/concept so other folk.
oh yeah, I'm an arachnophobe (so playing Skyrim was always a bit... difficult for me, considering certain enemies. And there's a section in Bloodborne I refuse to play, so I basically dropped the game) though I'm slowly working towards not feeling extremely uneasy and anxious even with pictures of them... but it's not working out yet, it takes time 😂
bumping this to bring the fact that the mega Humble Bundle sale enters its final week, so you have less than 7 days to buy the whole Malazan Book of the Fallen saga (plus some related books by Erikson)
I'll probably create a FYI thread later following Snormy's suggestion.
Plus I finished C12 and I'm in the middle of C13 so I'd probably write an update ITT in the near future :D
I'll probably create a FYI thread later following Snormy's suggestion.
Plus I finished C12 and I'm in the middle of C13 so I'd probably write an update ITT in the near future :D
I was going to make a thread then some things came up and it has completely slipped my mind.
I was going to try and write up a conversation I had with some friends where we attempted to describe the main series to someone who was interested but wanted to know more. Rather than going about it with what it is and is not we ended up comparing it to moments we appreciated in other popular media. I'll try and post in your thread when its up I guess :D no pressure
I think it'll be later today! 😁
Right now I'm still making my way through C13. It's been pretty damn enjoyable with a small revelation that made me go "OH SHIT, NO WAY!". Good stuff 😱🤐
Got back in after bailing a bit into book 4.
I just finished Memories of Ice and hour ago after DEVOURING this enormous book in less than a week and now I think I remember why I stopped. How the fuck do you follow this. I was wiping away tears multiple times.
It's almost unfair having to set up new character and plots and in need to remember that the pay off has always been worth it.
There is something so exciting falling back into love with a series knowing I have SEVEN freaking tomes left to dive into. I hope my momentum holds
I just finished Memories of Ice and hour ago after DEVOURING this enormous book in less than a week and now I think I remember why I stopped. How the fuck do you follow this. I was wiping away tears multiple times.
It's almost unfair having to set up new character and plots and in need to remember that the pay off has always been worth it.
There is something so exciting falling back into love with a series knowing I have SEVEN freaking tomes left to dive into. I hope my momentum holds
TIL that not only is there a Malazan audiobook series, it's unabridged and around 390 hours long. God help me, I'm thinking of buying it. Anyone ever dig into it? How is it?
hey, you saved me a thread bump, ha!
sorry to say I can't really answer your question, but I've heard mixed things about the audiobooks? At least I remember reading that Erikson doesn't agree on how certain names are pronounced in the audiobooks and other people's experiences weren't that good since the books are so fucking dense at times it gets a little confusing
BUT
that's all anecdotal - maybe someone with actual experience can shed light on it?
Personally speaking I had to take a bit of a hiatus of MBOTF. I realized I have this sort of defense mechanism that when a hobby I enjoy (whether a book, a game, a tv show) starts to get very overwhelming for me, I just drop it and immediately change into a different hobby (so I start to play a different kind of game, or a completely different show, or whatever) until I'm kind of pacified and decide it's time to get back to it.
So I'm in a bit of an informal hiatus now in The BoneHunters. I think I was starting C15 when I decided to stop reading for a while.
I remember there was a Mappo section that felt really self-indulgent and, not gonna lie, it kinda rubbed me the wrong way - this extended flashback that went on and on for pages and the point was to say "hey, maybe there's wisdom in shutting the fuck up at certain times". I don't think we needed the whole backstory of different tribes and battles and this very specific warleader to get to that point.
So that's also something that contributed to my decision to stop for a bit.
sorry to say I can't really answer your question, but I've heard mixed things about the audiobooks? At least I remember reading that Erikson doesn't agree on how certain names are pronounced in the audiobooks and other people's experiences weren't that good since the books are so fucking dense at times it gets a little confusing
BUT
that's all anecdotal - maybe someone with actual experience can shed light on it?
Personally speaking I had to take a bit of a hiatus of MBOTF. I realized I have this sort of defense mechanism that when a hobby I enjoy (whether a book, a game, a tv show) starts to get very overwhelming for me, I just drop it and immediately change into a different hobby (so I start to play a different kind of game, or a completely different show, or whatever) until I'm kind of pacified and decide it's time to get back to it.
So I'm in a bit of an informal hiatus now in The BoneHunters. I think I was starting C15 when I decided to stop reading for a while.
I remember there was a Mappo section that felt really self-indulgent and, not gonna lie, it kinda rubbed me the wrong way - this extended flashback that went on and on for pages and the point was to say "hey, maybe there's wisdom in shutting the fuck up at certain times". I don't think we needed the whole backstory of different tribes and battles and this very specific warleader to get to that point.
So that's also something that contributed to my decision to stop for a bit.
That's how I experienced my entire Malazan journey and loved every moment of it. Keep in mind that the narrator changes after the first 3 books, it took a couple of chapters to adjust but I ended up enjoying the second narrator more.
Despite not being super emotive normally I again found myself gulping back tears while in public as I finally finished my reread of this tremendous series. I won't spoil anything but if you have read as far as the last few pages of The Crippled God you'll know the passage I mean.
It was a long old ride but I'm glad I took the reread on just to revisit and get reacquainted with some of the greatest characters in fiction. Would I recommend a reread to anyone else? I'm not 100% sure. Maybe. Parts of it were definitely a slog. If you have access to the audio version and a job that doesn't require a lot of your attention then absolutely. But if you have never read it at all then, from me at least, it comes highly recommended.
It was a long old ride but I'm glad I took the reread on just to revisit and get reacquainted with some of the greatest characters in fiction. Would I recommend a reread to anyone else? I'm not 100% sure. Maybe. Parts of it were definitely a slog. If you have access to the audio version and a job that doesn't require a lot of your attention then absolutely. But if you have never read it at all then, from me at least, it comes highly recommended.
Back in business - TBH Book 3 is done!
It's been such a long time, hasn't it?
I gotta be honest - I lost a lot of interest suddenly. I think I might have some form of ADD without hyperactivity or might be in the spectrum, because I tend to get these hyperfixations in waves, so there's like... weeks or months in which I really get into something (a book, a videogame, a series, etc.) and I give it a lot of my time and think about it a lot during that time, and then suddenly I kinda get overwhelmed and just stop. I have to leave that thing alone for a while... a long while, until I muster the energy to return to it. It happened with Mario Odyssey. It happened with Critical Role. It happened with Babylon 5. It happened with Malazan Book of the Fallen.
And so I just had to stop. As I mentioned last time, I was kind of having a hard time with some of the book's passages (like Mappo's extended flashback/history lesson) so leaving it alone wasn't a hard choice. It felt like a slog and I was "man, if I have so little time and I'm not enjoying myself, why not drop it for a while?" and, considering last year was an emotional rollercoaster, I also wasn't in the very best frame of mind. Easy choice, then.
But I've been itching to come back for a while, not gonna lie. I felt like I had some literal unfinished business. I wanted to, at the very least, finish The Bonehunters, and then see where I'm at. Maybe I end up reading the rest, maybe I think that's good for now and decide to give it another rest. But at least finish the damn book.
So... we're back in business!
And even though it was difficult (I essentially had to read some two or three chapter summaries just to remember more or less where I left), I started C15 and found myself engrossed in no time. Unlike other previous chapters, I had no major issues with this one. Hell, I could even say I devoured it - in a very short time I found myself starting C16!
That's when I went online and, after a short google search, found out C15 has a very good reputation with the fanbase - I'm not surprised. It was fucking awesome.
Loved the introduction to Quick Ben's sister, the whole Ganoes/Quick Ben situation with Poliel and... fuck it, basically everything was just top notch. I couldn't have "picked" a better chapter to return to, lmao. Just a serendipitous moment.
Chapter 16 was a bit more traditional but still very captivating... the right amount of foreboding, funny and emotional. Hell, even Mappo's conversation with Lady Spite on the nature of gods, belief and fanaticism managed to be great, though a bit "author tract"-ish (yes, it felt like Erikson himself was speaking through that conversation instead of one of his characters) and considering the current state of the world, all the more poignant:
"A civilization at war chooses only the most obvious enemy, and often also the one perceived, at first, to be the most easily defeatable. But that enemy is not the true enemy, nor is it the gravest threat to that civilization. Thus, a civilization at war often chooses the wrong enemy."
Another of those great Erikson moments.
So... all in all, initial difficulties aside, I'm back for the foreseeable future. Hopefully the ride doesn't stop again until The Bonehunters is done!
Thanks everybody. Hope you're having a great time!
Great to see you back. There are some great moments coming up but I feel like you could move anywhere in the series and this might be a fairly relevant comment. I've been thinking of starting my re-read towards the end of the month. The series has been on my mind because there are certain elements of Honkai Star Rail that remind me of Malazan a great deal. Which is kind of funny because this is the forth big IP I've compared it.
thanks mate, feels good to be back :D
Can't wait to get closer to the climax of the book. It usually never disappoints. I really admire that about Erikson, he has a way of somehow making the books' climaxes *really* worth it.
Yeah! The wrap up of this one felt a little difficult than the others but we can talk about that when we get there. I think this is my definitely one of my favourites if not the favourite of the books in the series. I'm not entirely sure why and perhaps that'll change on re-reads. Some moments just hit nicely for me I guess. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Hey Altazor :)
As posted above my reread is done and it feels great to get stuck back into other fiction. That said I'll never regret my reread especially when I remember events such as you have approaching towards the end of Bonehunters. Enjoy it at a pace that suits you bud.
As posted above my reread is done and it feels great to get stuck back into other fiction. That said I'll never regret my reread especially when I remember events such as you have approaching towards the end of Bonehunters. Enjoy it at a pace that suits you bud.
Finished C17 earlier today.
I said it yesterday - it's a downer from the start. It basically hits you with a gutpunch before the chapter proper starts, with the revelation that despite everything the Wickans did for the Empire during the Chain of Dogs, the populace fell for a concerted propagandistic effort to tarnish their reputations and, in effect, generate pogroms against the Wickan population residing in the Empire which is fucking *brutal* especially if you remember how dire the whole situation during those sections in Deadhouse Gates was. Of course we later learn who's behind said effort had to be that fucking piece of shit Mallick Rel, of course. Slimy teflon bastard which makes it even more infuriating.
And after that cheery, bright start, we're treated to the conflicting feelings of one Ahlrada Ahn (who I had no memory of and had to carefully google to remember he was that guy in Midnight Tides that was constantly being a dick to Trull) and his role in everything that has happened since we last saw the Edur/Lether Empire in Midnight Tides. Learning he was one of Rhulad's "brothers" that took part in Trull's shorning ritual took me by surprise but I also think that was a bit of an asspull, since some elements of that prologue scene aren't really consistent with the characters we end up knowing in MT, so I guess that's a neat way of Erikson to handwave that particular inconsistency ("oh, I meant brothers in a *figurative* sense while y'all thought it was *literal*, haha!"). Still, we learn some new stuff about Ahlrada and, more generally, Bluerose as a nation (born out of Tiste Andii survivors of the Scabandari Bloodeye betrayal) and, also, the atrocities the Edur are committing now in the name of their Emperor.
As it's usually the case in the MBOTF books, threads end up converging because we not only follow Karsa and Samar Dev finally making the trip towards the Edur/Lether Empire homeland to take up Rhulad's challenge, but we also learn that Icarium and his new best buddy in the whole wide world, Taralack Veed, are also making the same trip with the exact same intention, only in a different ship. Plus we get to see some returning faces from MT apart from the aforementioned Ahlrada Ahn, including Feather Witch and Yan Tovis aka "Twilight" (who basically had one scene in MT if my memory doesn't fail me). Got a feeling we're gonna see a lot more of those names in the future.
Since the chapter's whole vibe is being this cheery, uplifting and wholesome sequence, we get a conversation between Cotillion and Trull's current entourage guarding the First Throne too - and what a moment it was! Sadboi Trull is in full effect here (understandably so) and we're treated to a couple of very sweet Trull/Onrack bromance moments too - including one that obviously backfires and makes Trull even sadder... such a sadboi. He has the voice of Liam O'Brien in my mind, since he excels at playing sadboi characters in Critical Role, lmao. Anyway, continuing the bright and cheerful vibe, we learn that while defending the First Throne from Edur raids, hundreds of children that had been rescued by Kalam during Deadhouse Gates are dead, now like a quarter of them remain. Yeah, that will cheer you up. Of course, we get some juicy lore tidbits too, including the fact that the First Throne's power was already weakening once Kellanved occupied it and that's why it only managed to compel the 'nearby' Logros Clan of T'lan Imass and not the more distant ones. And also something about dragons casting shadows all over Cotillion's realm, which makes him realize something. I have no idea. Maybe I'll understand later.
We're also re-introduced to Banaschar, that former priest of D'rek that last appeared in this book's prologue and was cloaked in mystery since nobody present could remember what he looked like. He's spent months trying to contact Tayschrenn to no avail, suspecting that the gatekeeper at Mock's Hold in Malaz City is *not* delivering his messages. He also spends nights in a very dingy tavern, drinking with some very decadent fellows - including someone we apparently know but I personally can't remember who he's supposed to be, so he's only referred to as "Foreigner" here. There we learn about the pogroms against Wickans in Malaz City, with some very brutal details. Later on he meets with Braven Tooth, who has been previously mentioned in the series as a very strict and somewhat savage drill master sargeant for the Malazan soldiers. We finally meet the guy and he's obviously a sweetheart *rolls eyes*.
Oh yeah, and Pearl is also in this chapter, believing Lostara's dead and meeting with that fucking SOB Mallick Rel, knowing the guy's pulling quite a lot of strings. I still can't decide how I feel about Pearl, tbh - it's like sometimes he even functions as some sort of comic relief while also being really dangerous, but also not *as* dangerous as others in the Claw... I dunno. Anyway, apparently he's going to talk to Korbolo Dom (oh yeah, he's still alive).
A great chapter, very uplifting and breezy *rolls eyes again*, just what the Doctor ordered.
I leave you all with another of Erikson's great moments IMHO, one of those lines I immediately saved.
"These lessons of cruelty and brutality did not beling in what a child needed to learn, in what a child should learn. And a world in which children were subjected to such things was a world in which compassion was a hollow word, its echoes a chorus of mockery and cold contempt."
Considering what's happening in Ukraine and Gaza, it's difficult not to see how poignant it is.
I said it yesterday - it's a downer from the start. It basically hits you with a gutpunch before the chapter proper starts, with the revelation that despite everything the Wickans did for the Empire during the Chain of Dogs, the populace fell for a concerted propagandistic effort to tarnish their reputations and, in effect, generate pogroms against the Wickan population residing in the Empire which is fucking *brutal* especially if you remember how dire the whole situation during those sections in Deadhouse Gates was. Of course we later learn who's behind said effort had to be that fucking piece of shit Mallick Rel, of course. Slimy teflon bastard which makes it even more infuriating.
And after that cheery, bright start, we're treated to the conflicting feelings of one Ahlrada Ahn (who I had no memory of and had to carefully google to remember he was that guy in Midnight Tides that was constantly being a dick to Trull) and his role in everything that has happened since we last saw the Edur/Lether Empire in Midnight Tides. Learning he was one of Rhulad's "brothers" that took part in Trull's shorning ritual took me by surprise but I also think that was a bit of an asspull, since some elements of that prologue scene aren't really consistent with the characters we end up knowing in MT, so I guess that's a neat way of Erikson to handwave that particular inconsistency ("oh, I meant brothers in a *figurative* sense while y'all thought it was *literal*, haha!"). Still, we learn some new stuff about Ahlrada and, more generally, Bluerose as a nation (born out of Tiste Andii survivors of the Scabandari Bloodeye betrayal) and, also, the atrocities the Edur are committing now in the name of their Emperor.
As it's usually the case in the MBOTF books, threads end up converging because we not only follow Karsa and Samar Dev finally making the trip towards the Edur/Lether Empire homeland to take up Rhulad's challenge, but we also learn that Icarium and his new best buddy in the whole wide world, Taralack Veed, are also making the same trip with the exact same intention, only in a different ship. Plus we get to see some returning faces from MT apart from the aforementioned Ahlrada Ahn, including Feather Witch and Yan Tovis aka "Twilight" (who basically had one scene in MT if my memory doesn't fail me). Got a feeling we're gonna see a lot more of those names in the future.
Since the chapter's whole vibe is being this cheery, uplifting and wholesome sequence, we get a conversation between Cotillion and Trull's current entourage guarding the First Throne too - and what a moment it was! Sadboi Trull is in full effect here (understandably so) and we're treated to a couple of very sweet Trull/Onrack bromance moments too - including one that obviously backfires and makes Trull even sadder... such a sadboi. He has the voice of Liam O'Brien in my mind, since he excels at playing sadboi characters in Critical Role, lmao. Anyway, continuing the bright and cheerful vibe, we learn that while defending the First Throne from Edur raids, hundreds of children that had been rescued by Kalam during Deadhouse Gates are dead, now like a quarter of them remain. Yeah, that will cheer you up. Of course, we get some juicy lore tidbits too, including the fact that the First Throne's power was already weakening once Kellanved occupied it and that's why it only managed to compel the 'nearby' Logros Clan of T'lan Imass and not the more distant ones. And also something about dragons casting shadows all over Cotillion's realm, which makes him realize something. I have no idea. Maybe I'll understand later.
We're also re-introduced to Banaschar, that former priest of D'rek that last appeared in this book's prologue and was cloaked in mystery since nobody present could remember what he looked like. He's spent months trying to contact Tayschrenn to no avail, suspecting that the gatekeeper at Mock's Hold in Malaz City is *not* delivering his messages. He also spends nights in a very dingy tavern, drinking with some very decadent fellows - including someone we apparently know but I personally can't remember who he's supposed to be, so he's only referred to as "Foreigner" here. There we learn about the pogroms against Wickans in Malaz City, with some very brutal details. Later on he meets with Braven Tooth, who has been previously mentioned in the series as a very strict and somewhat savage drill master sargeant for the Malazan soldiers. We finally meet the guy and he's obviously a sweetheart *rolls eyes*.
Oh yeah, and Pearl is also in this chapter, believing Lostara's dead and meeting with that fucking SOB Mallick Rel, knowing the guy's pulling quite a lot of strings. I still can't decide how I feel about Pearl, tbh - it's like sometimes he even functions as some sort of comic relief while also being really dangerous, but also not *as* dangerous as others in the Claw... I dunno. Anyway, apparently he's going to talk to Korbolo Dom (oh yeah, he's still alive).
A great chapter, very uplifting and breezy *rolls eyes again*, just what the Doctor ordered.
I leave you all with another of Erikson's great moments IMHO, one of those lines I immediately saved.
"These lessons of cruelty and brutality did not beling in what a child needed to learn, in what a child should learn. And a world in which children were subjected to such things was a world in which compassion was a hollow word, its echoes a chorus of mockery and cold contempt."
Considering what's happening in Ukraine and Gaza, it's difficult not to see how poignant it is.
Chapter 18 is done!
Man, that was funny, then it was tense... and then it was epic... and then it was quite moving.
Like SNL's Stefon would say, this chapter had EVERYTHING. From lore dumps that didn't feel *that* esoteric or incomprehensible (T'amber making a new Deck of Dragons that includes the House of War, in which the Bridgeburners are the Guardians of the Dead, though in this case she didn't make this specific card; there's a Hunter card in which Treach appears alongside the corpse of Heboric, there's also Icarium as the Life Slayer *and* TCG as the Death Slayer, a fact that befuddles some people because TCG appears elsewhere in the Deck) to the whole tense section in the sea with the Malazan/Edur fleets that goes from "oh shit, something's wrong" to "WELL, DAMN" very soon thanks to Quick Ben and some help from elsewhere (must be said, it's probably one of Quick Ben's most epic moments in the entire series so far... and it wasn't even what he planned, lol) and then the chapter's denouement changes the whole vibe into something different, something akin to melancholy.
We get the conversation between Taralack Veed, Twilight and Ahlrada Ahn, in which the latter finds out some stuff about Anomander Rake that might call into question what he (or Bluerose) knew and the subtle --I guess-- idea that Tomad Sengar might be desperately looking for challengers against Rhulad because he wants his son to be mercy killed. Then we get the whole scene in the Malazan fleet between Masan Gilani, Sinn and Shard, in which we see a very sweet and humane moment between the three (though with an undercurrent of darkness, with Sinn saying "they're all dead" and we don't know what she's talking about). I love the fact that the BH, the ones that survived Y'ghatan are becoming an actual tight unit because Masan Gilani says that nobody in the squad would even think about taking advantage of Sinn and would probably skin alive anyone who dared. And to think they basically hated each other's guts at the start of the book, awwww.
Then we go to a short scene between Nil and Nether in which Nil teases his sister about having a crush on Bottle... but they also discuss their course of action, since they believe Bottle (having the 'help' of the Eres'al) has ended up becoming more important than QB, Kalam *and* Apsalar.
And lastly Apsalar takes the spotlight in two different conversations here, one with Squint (he who fired *that* arrow in Deadhouse Gates) and another with Cotillion. Both conversations are pretty vulnerable all things considered, and I'm so glad that Squint told her to not be a fool because loving someone that's also in love with you is pretty damn rare (...I should know about it). I also found it funny that, despite how vulnerable and honest the conversation was, both knew who each other was yet decided to not reveal it. Then Apsalar's talk with Cotillion was absolutely a personal highlight in the book so far. I can't believe I'm actually liking Cotillion more and more as I read... I though what he and Shadowthrone had done to Apsalar (back when she was just a fisher girl) was pretty damn appalling back at the start of GOTM but I think he's starting to make amends, in a way? He's definitely far more than just a cackling evil schemer, is what I'm trying to say. He's definitely complex, but he doesn't seem as removed from his humanity as Shadowthrone is now, for example - the way he literally comforts Apsalar when she silently breaks down is something I never thought I'd see and yet it happened.
What a way to end the chapter, really. "There were clouds closed fast round the moon. And one by one, gardens died."
Random stuff:
Man, that was funny, then it was tense... and then it was epic... and then it was quite moving.
Like SNL's Stefon would say, this chapter had EVERYTHING. From lore dumps that didn't feel *that* esoteric or incomprehensible (T'amber making a new Deck of Dragons that includes the House of War, in which the Bridgeburners are the Guardians of the Dead, though in this case she didn't make this specific card; there's a Hunter card in which Treach appears alongside the corpse of Heboric, there's also Icarium as the Life Slayer *and* TCG as the Death Slayer, a fact that befuddles some people because TCG appears elsewhere in the Deck) to the whole tense section in the sea with the Malazan/Edur fleets that goes from "oh shit, something's wrong" to "WELL, DAMN" very soon thanks to Quick Ben and some help from elsewhere (must be said, it's probably one of Quick Ben's most epic moments in the entire series so far... and it wasn't even what he planned, lol) and then the chapter's denouement changes the whole vibe into something different, something akin to melancholy.
We get the conversation between Taralack Veed, Twilight and Ahlrada Ahn, in which the latter finds out some stuff about Anomander Rake that might call into question what he (or Bluerose) knew and the subtle --I guess-- idea that Tomad Sengar might be desperately looking for challengers against Rhulad because he wants his son to be mercy killed. Then we get the whole scene in the Malazan fleet between Masan Gilani, Sinn and Shard, in which we see a very sweet and humane moment between the three (though with an undercurrent of darkness, with Sinn saying "they're all dead" and we don't know what she's talking about). I love the fact that the BH, the ones that survived Y'ghatan are becoming an actual tight unit because Masan Gilani says that nobody in the squad would even think about taking advantage of Sinn and would probably skin alive anyone who dared. And to think they basically hated each other's guts at the start of the book, awwww.
Then we go to a short scene between Nil and Nether in which Nil teases his sister about having a crush on Bottle... but they also discuss their course of action, since they believe Bottle (having the 'help' of the Eres'al) has ended up becoming more important than QB, Kalam *and* Apsalar.
And lastly Apsalar takes the spotlight in two different conversations here, one with Squint (he who fired *that* arrow in Deadhouse Gates) and another with Cotillion. Both conversations are pretty vulnerable all things considered, and I'm so glad that Squint told her to not be a fool because loving someone that's also in love with you is pretty damn rare (...I should know about it). I also found it funny that, despite how vulnerable and honest the conversation was, both knew who each other was yet decided to not reveal it. Then Apsalar's talk with Cotillion was absolutely a personal highlight in the book so far. I can't believe I'm actually liking Cotillion more and more as I read... I though what he and Shadowthrone had done to Apsalar (back when she was just a fisher girl) was pretty damn appalling back at the start of GOTM but I think he's starting to make amends, in a way? He's definitely far more than just a cackling evil schemer, is what I'm trying to say. He's definitely complex, but he doesn't seem as removed from his humanity as Shadowthrone is now, for example - the way he literally comforts Apsalar when she silently breaks down is something I never thought I'd see and yet it happened.
What a way to end the chapter, really. "There were clouds closed fast round the moon. And one by one, gardens died."
Random stuff:
- What's up with the Moon, really? In C19 we get more comments on that and I'm fucking intrigued.
- I admit I kinda laughed when Cotillion was talking with Apsalar about Felisin Younger and said something like "I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to talk about controlling her, more like guiding..." and I was like DUDE YOU LITERALLY POSSESSED THE GIRL IN FRONT OF YOU LOL
- I honestly thought the whole "Bottle erection scene" was kind of unnecessary but I'm assuming there's a hint of something important there with the Eres'al beyond trying to be crudely funny... I guess.
- Crump remains insanely funny. Bless that dumb as fuck hillbilly.
- Bottle naming the rat babies after his squadmates is something that I definitely saw coming, lol
Keep going OP. It was this thread that originally got me to go back to the books after I hit the infamous Reapers Gale wall.
I blasted through and consumed the entire series in 7 weeks. It was insane and worth the teary 3am bedtimes
I blasted through and consumed the entire series in 7 weeks. It was insane and worth the teary 3am bedtimes
oh damn, I'm very glad this thread helped you! :D
Since I'm re-energized ATM regarding the series (basically read 3 chapters in a matter of days), I hope I don't end up taking another long hiatus out of the blue. I really want to keep going! Let's see where this takes us.
Finished chapters 19 and 20 (and I'm close to finishing C21 too)... damn.
Well, here's a handy visual:
A bit like that but with more jade. Well, less moon itself falling and more like... a shitload of jade meteorites (statues?) around the moon falling into the "Earth"
Yeah, that apparently happened. Well I'll be damned. There's *a lot* that happened in those two chapters and I don't think I currently have the mindspace to properly summarize everything but I'll definitely say this: I'm really glad I came back to read this book. Somehow, even with the density of shit going on, I manage to find myself immersed and captivated by it; somehow, even though I don't understand *a lot* of what is actually going on, I still find myself wanting to know more, to see where it leads. I think I was feeling burnt out when I dropped it - as I said, I get these hyperfixation bouts and that was the end of mine, so it was natural (I guess) to be overwhelmed by the whole thing and just leave it there, unfinished. But now that I came back I find myself it hasn't been as tough or as obscure as I thought it'd be for someone that had been like... months and months away from it. In fact, it's been a blast.
And I've able to encounter amazing moments like Onrack rediscovering his own feelings and caring so much for Trull and his friends. Or Quick Ben feeling so overwhelmed that he's just hiding inside the ship. Or the whole thing with Barathol and Chaur, which tugged at my heartstrings in a major way since I have a brother with disabilities (+ he's on the spectrum). Or how Heboric returns from the dead, even if its just for that specific moment, due to Ganoes' bargain with Hood - something I never saw coming, at least not in *that* way. Or how high-level (even a bit navelgazing-ish, though I still enjoyed it) was that conversation between Banaschar and Pearl regarding Gods, their followers and what constitutes a greater betrayal - I also didn't see coming the revelation that D'rek herself killed her own priests (hence the bloody mess that was discovered in the Prologue) because they demanded the power of Blood and wanted to join TCG... I definitely wonder about the larger implications of that whole scene, discussion and revelation.
No, seriously, there's a lot of moments, big and small, that made me go "OH SHIT!" and I'm so hyped. Fuck Taralack Veed though, all my homies hate Taralack Veed and his "the only way to achieve peace if you murder everyone" shtick and his "using spit to comb my hair" shtick. Also fuck Mallick Rel though he's not on these two chapters but fuck that guy anyway, all my homies hate Mallick Rel.
Also on that last point, I wonder about Mael and his followers, since I can't fathom a dude like Bugg being OK with a piece of shit like Mallick Rel. Then again, Iskaral Pust said Mael was "ambivalent" and that was what made his followers do whatever they want. That conversation about Gods, followers and betrayals still goes around in my head when I think about Bugg and Mallick Rel. Who knows how's that gonna pan out.
Oh, and *of course* Tene Baralta was going to be recruited by TCG. Ever since they told us the guy had been disfigured and become really fucking toxic to everyone I just assumed "perfect TCG follower material" and... yeah, there it is. Of course that a dude with delusions of grandeur that feels broken and unfairly maligned would fall into that circle. I do wonder what Lostara Yil's gonna do about it though...
And to end the chapter, Grey Helms! I assume they're associated with (or a variant of) the Grey Swords we met in MoI, since they have the same titles. So fucking cool. And I love Kalam's sarcastic stinger:
"High Mage Ben Adaephon Delat, High Lord of Diction."
EDIT: Something I forgot to mention - I really wonder what the fuck Hood wanted out of the bargain with Ganoes. Erikson, you goddamn tease.
Well, here's a handy visual:
A bit like that but with more jade. Well, less moon itself falling and more like... a shitload of jade meteorites (statues?) around the moon falling into the "Earth"
Yeah, that apparently happened. Well I'll be damned. There's *a lot* that happened in those two chapters and I don't think I currently have the mindspace to properly summarize everything but I'll definitely say this: I'm really glad I came back to read this book. Somehow, even with the density of shit going on, I manage to find myself immersed and captivated by it; somehow, even though I don't understand *a lot* of what is actually going on, I still find myself wanting to know more, to see where it leads. I think I was feeling burnt out when I dropped it - as I said, I get these hyperfixation bouts and that was the end of mine, so it was natural (I guess) to be overwhelmed by the whole thing and just leave it there, unfinished. But now that I came back I find myself it hasn't been as tough or as obscure as I thought it'd be for someone that had been like... months and months away from it. In fact, it's been a blast.
And I've able to encounter amazing moments like Onrack rediscovering his own feelings and caring so much for Trull and his friends. Or Quick Ben feeling so overwhelmed that he's just hiding inside the ship. Or the whole thing with Barathol and Chaur, which tugged at my heartstrings in a major way since I have a brother with disabilities (+ he's on the spectrum). Or how Heboric returns from the dead, even if its just for that specific moment, due to Ganoes' bargain with Hood - something I never saw coming, at least not in *that* way. Or how high-level (even a bit navelgazing-ish, though I still enjoyed it) was that conversation between Banaschar and Pearl regarding Gods, their followers and what constitutes a greater betrayal - I also didn't see coming the revelation that D'rek herself killed her own priests (hence the bloody mess that was discovered in the Prologue) because they demanded the power of Blood and wanted to join TCG... I definitely wonder about the larger implications of that whole scene, discussion and revelation.
No, seriously, there's a lot of moments, big and small, that made me go "OH SHIT!" and I'm so hyped. Fuck Taralack Veed though, all my homies hate Taralack Veed and his "the only way to achieve peace if you murder everyone" shtick and his "using spit to comb my hair" shtick. Also fuck Mallick Rel though he's not on these two chapters but fuck that guy anyway, all my homies hate Mallick Rel.
Also on that last point, I wonder about Mael and his followers, since I can't fathom a dude like Bugg being OK with a piece of shit like Mallick Rel. Then again, Iskaral Pust said Mael was "ambivalent" and that was what made his followers do whatever they want. That conversation about Gods, followers and betrayals still goes around in my head when I think about Bugg and Mallick Rel. Who knows how's that gonna pan out.
Oh, and *of course* Tene Baralta was going to be recruited by TCG. Ever since they told us the guy had been disfigured and become really fucking toxic to everyone I just assumed "perfect TCG follower material" and... yeah, there it is. Of course that a dude with delusions of grandeur that feels broken and unfairly maligned would fall into that circle. I do wonder what Lostara Yil's gonna do about it though...
And to end the chapter, Grey Helms! I assume they're associated with (or a variant of) the Grey Swords we met in MoI, since they have the same titles. So fucking cool. And I love Kalam's sarcastic stinger:
"High Mage Ben Adaephon Delat, High Lord of Diction."
EDIT: Something I forgot to mention - I really wonder what the fuck Hood wanted out of the bargain with Ganoes. Erikson, you goddamn tease.
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The intensity of the upcoming chapters and finale is something else. I found it really some of the most gripping and memorable even if the conflicts are not the largest in scale.
Image also feels pretty fitting
This makes me laugh so much. Just read some more though, soon you find some answers and maybe another one to add to this list.
Image also feels pretty fitting
Yeah all that moon stuff made me ask a lot of questions. Like for how long it was breaking up, there already where strange descriptions of the moon prior to that iirc.
Like most Ericson books, the last couple chapters are.... intense.
FYI, in case you are reading the Esslemont books (or if you want to see a bit more of Malick Rell for some strange reason), Return of the Crimson Guard would fit next chronologically, and there are a lot of things happening in that one that have some marginal impact in the Ericson books. Edit: Wait no scratch that, it's after reapers gale. Though I'd recommend to read it then.
Like most Ericson books, the last couple chapters are.... intense.
Can't wait, really. Even in HoC, which would probably be like the weakest climax so far (IMHO), I was still pretty damn invested. I seriously can't even imagining what's gonna be this book's second climax after Y'ghatan - the defense of the First Throne? Some sort of major skirmish between the Edur and the Malazans? I have no fucking clue and I'm hyped! I'm slightly less than 200 pages from finishing TBH and I'm pretty sure that's gonna be next week at the most.
NGL I had a hard time trying to parse whatever was going on with the jade statues and Heboric and all that, but after browsing the Reader's Guide and the TOR (now Reactor) Re-read of TBH, I think I got it. And it was pretty damn cool. And... yeah, it made me wonder what did I miss earlier in the books regarding the Moon, because I'm sure there's some hidden details there.
Thanks for the rec, mate! I'm still debating whether I read RoTCG or not since they're not part of the 'main' series but still relevant. Maybe it'll become clearer once I finish RG!