Bets on how long until a keening sound started emanating from Icarium after meeting Tehol lol
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Join me as I make my way through the Malazan Book of the Fallen! (Currently: 7 - Reaper's Gale)
- Thread starter Altazor
- Start date
- Entertainment
It's an update, but not the one you'd hope to read.
I think I'll be taking some time off from updating this thread in a regular basis. Remember that, earlier on, I spoke of a health scare that befell a loved one.
It flared up again and it was no health scare. As much as I am loath to give details in such a public forum, I feel like I owe you (who have been a constant and pleasant company during this experiment) some sort of explanation.
Due to that, the available time I will have to devote to these write-ups will decrease significantly, since I have a shitload of things to do helping my mother take care of household stuff *and* also I'll have to handle some paperwork/money issues. I'll still keep on reading MT, but I guess my pace will slow down to a crawl due to lack of concentration, lack of time and just overall sadness.
So that's that, my friends. I wish I could've written something happier but it is what it is. Thank you all, sincerely, for your support and your contributions.
I think I'll be taking some time off from updating this thread in a regular basis. Remember that, earlier on, I spoke of a health scare that befell a loved one.
It flared up again and it was no health scare. As much as I am loath to give details in such a public forum, I feel like I owe you (who have been a constant and pleasant company during this experiment) some sort of explanation.
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So that's that, my friends. I wish I could've written something happier but it is what it is. Thank you all, sincerely, for your support and your contributions.
thanks friend, I certainly hope so. I've been a wreck for these past few days even though I have to put on some sort of a brave face at times - it's those moments of silence and contemplation that get to you. The mind wanders and it brings up memories of happier times, which make the dreary present hurt even more.
But I hope things do get better, there's this ray of hope. And when they do, I think I'll unwind a bit, try to take it slow. And be even more grateful.
Man that sucks. My father went through something similar a decade ago (Legionnaires' disease), though in his case he went through fine thankfully (and is now in almost better health, as it forced him to quit smoking). But the month he was in the hospital was horrible.
Take care (and don't think you "owe" us anything, take care of yourself and your family).
Take care (and don't think you "owe" us anything, take care of yourself and your family).
Wishing the best for you and your family. Take some time off and take care of yourself!
I mostly just lurk on this site, but i've read all of the Erikson malazan books a couple times and wanted to let you know I cherish seeing updates to this thread.
I mostly just lurk on this site, but i've read all of the Erikson malazan books a couple times and wanted to let you know I cherish seeing updates to this thread.
Once again I thank you all, profusely and sincerely, for your kind words. It is heartwarming ❤️
Fortunately we had some sort of positive news today, pending confirmation of course, but he's looking better and healthier - which makes *us* feel happier and a bit calmer. I hope things continue to go right from now on.
Fortunately we had some sort of positive news today, pending confirmation of course, but he's looking better and healthier - which makes *us* feel happier and a bit calmer. I hope things continue to go right from now on.
I hope no news is good news :-)
I just finished Return of the Crimson Guard... I haven't continued the Erikson books yet, but I'd expect RotCG will have some major impact, I understand why so many reading guides recommend to read it even if you just want to read Erikson's books.
Only small nitpick I have: I don't know if my edition is especially bad, but it's the first time in all the Malazan books I read I noticed a lot of editing errors (small typos, wrong words, some words mistakenly added in sentences...). Hope that's an outlier, that was distracting at times.
I just finished Return of the Crimson Guard... I haven't continued the Erikson books yet, but I'd expect RotCG will have some major impact, I understand why so many reading guides recommend to read it even if you just want to read Erikson's books.
The Guards were intriguing in previous novels, but I wasn't prepared for their crazy, they seem very detached from real world concerns (their reaction to Unta's (lack of initial) reaction to their invasion was pretty funny). I hope to see more of them, but I'll expect it'll only be in the Esselmont books (Iron Bars on the Wall maybe?). Though Skinner joinging the HOuse of Chains may make an apparition in the Erikson books. We also still don't know much about the "Cousins", hope to see them and Kyle again.
The whole Ghelel / Talian plotline seemed a bit... pointless? Definitively the chapters I enjoyed the least.
That Traveler is Dassem seemed the most obvious from his first appearance, but now we finally have confirmation. As expected, the man (?) seems unstoppable. An Edur witch recognizing him makes me wonder if there's more to him, as the first Lether/Malazan contact we know if is well after his fall in Y'gathan.
His first book was a bit weak on that point (well, mainly due to its short length), but Esselmont managed to really create a big interesting cast like Erikson; the Malazans (rebel or loyalist) all had pretty interesting and diverse plotlines that kept criss-crossing.
But of course, the most impactful thing of all the book, that carnage at the end.... The Malazans lose almost two armies (... again......) first by infighting, then to the guards. Sadly not really surprising by this point to be honest. But so many dead major characters, between most Old Guards (pretty much all except Urko and his brother right?), major Crimson Guard mages, freaking Tayschrenn and Lasseen... Man, that'll seriously impact things in Seven Cities and Genabackis.
And that weasel Mallick, so lucky.... First Mael going easy on him, then Tayschrenn dying due to Yath's completely unexpected appearance, and Cowl distracting Lasseen...
The whole Ghelel / Talian plotline seemed a bit... pointless? Definitively the chapters I enjoyed the least.
That Traveler is Dassem seemed the most obvious from his first appearance, but now we finally have confirmation. As expected, the man (?) seems unstoppable. An Edur witch recognizing him makes me wonder if there's more to him, as the first Lether/Malazan contact we know if is well after his fall in Y'gathan.
His first book was a bit weak on that point (well, mainly due to its short length), but Esselmont managed to really create a big interesting cast like Erikson; the Malazans (rebel or loyalist) all had pretty interesting and diverse plotlines that kept criss-crossing.
But of course, the most impactful thing of all the book, that carnage at the end.... The Malazans lose almost two armies (... again......) first by infighting, then to the guards. Sadly not really surprising by this point to be honest. But so many dead major characters, between most Old Guards (pretty much all except Urko and his brother right?), major Crimson Guard mages, freaking Tayschrenn and Lasseen... Man, that'll seriously impact things in Seven Cities and Genabackis.
And that weasel Mallick, so lucky.... First Mael going easy on him, then Tayschrenn dying due to Yath's completely unexpected appearance, and Cowl distracting Lasseen...
No news is good news, sort of!
Apart from that, I'm on Chapter 17 now! I'm hooked on this book tbh. I've got some amazing gift delivered too, I'll post about that later.
BTW, feel free to keep posting in this thread whenever you feel like it! Even if I'm not currently updating and posting my impressions on the book, I don't want this thread to die.
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BTW, feel free to keep posting in this thread whenever you feel like it! Even if I'm not currently updating and posting my impressions on the book, I don't want this thread to die.
I've yet to read the Esselmont books but I've been spoiled by some pretty major stuff already lol. I don't mind spoilers though.
On the topic of just talking about the series though. I recently watched the video from A Critical Dragon about Kallor. It changed my perspective on him quite a bit honestly, a lot of stuff I hadn't considered.
Major things are hinted at. Major spoilers from MoI, a few others as well (mostly about conflicts to come) but generally not too bad. Spoiler warnings at the beginning too.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb7Rwa_5SBM&list=PLqNvO4rxJOPvFp3l93qyTylbjG6aicqpt
So interesting lol.
On the topic of just talking about the series though. I recently watched the video from A Critical Dragon about Kallor. It changed my perspective on him quite a bit honestly, a lot of stuff I hadn't considered.
Major things are hinted at. Major spoilers from MoI, a few others as well (mostly about conflicts to come) but generally not too bad. Spoiler warnings at the beginning too.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb7Rwa_5SBM&list=PLqNvO4rxJOPvFp3l93qyTylbjG6aicqpt
So interesting lol.
Update time!
Since I'm about to start Chapter 24 it means I'm only two chapters (and a short epilogue) away from finishing Midnight Tides. It's not going to be an in-depth update as they used to be but I feel like sharing with you my impressions of the book right as it's about to enter its climax and denouement.
I've loved this. I've found its scope, since it's been pretty different from the previous books, quite refreshing - the fact that we're still following a cast of characters but the divide's clear and they're basically around the same place it feels like it's a lot more self-contained than something like HoC, for example. And, as I've mentioned before, I appreciate how Erikson started this narrative as something so... apart and isolated from the "main" MBOTF story and yet, as you advance through the book, the connections to the overall story become more and more obvious and by the time the last book of the four that comprise MT comes around, we're talking about Forkrul Assail, the T'lan Imass, Kellanved and the Crimson Guard. It doesn't feel cheap or too artificial since the characters who usually speak those terms tend to be characters who know what they're talking about.
Gotta say, how the book has handled Rhulad has been quite a surprise. Even if he's, quite evidently, a raving lunatic with high ambition, the book also shows us repeatedly that the constant deaths he's had take an immense toll on his sanity, he's basically in constant pain, and has enough self-awareness to realize he's fucked up repeatedly (e.g. the Mayen thing, accepting TCG's bargain) and yet feels he must carry that weight since refusing it means TCG will find someone even worse than him as his 'vessel'. It's quite a nuanced portrayal for somebody who could easily be portrayed as a monster with no redeemable qualities about him. Point in case, I loved the scene in one of these last few chapters (22 or 23) in which he spends time with his brothers... just as brothers, not as an Emperor and his subjects.
Also, one thing I've realized it's different in this book compared to the others - that usual feeling of dread, that foreboding sensation that tends to creep up as the climax looms closer? It's got a different flavor this time - it's basically a foregone conclusion that the Tiste Edur will end up conquering Lether, and the book isn't even subtle about it (e.g. Ezkara's ascension witnessed only by his close circle, and Brizad's thought shortly after about Seventh Closure's date having been miscalculated, or the outright obliteration that happened near Brans Keep) so the actual feeling of dread is more about what the fuck happens between this point in time and House of Chains' prologue regarding Trull, and what will happen with all the bodies around the (dead) Azath Tower. It's like the book's going "this war I've teased for hundreds of pages? Yeah, it's a smokescreen for the actual tragedy that'll happen".
Still... man, the characters in this book are damn fine. Tehol and "Bugg" (big-ass quotes, because that ain't his name) remain a hightlight - I loved how Tehol, some couple of chapters ago, almost invented marxism... that got a big laugh from me. Udinaas seems like a pretty compassionate dude. Brys, unlike other "noble" characters in other books, has good intentions *and* he's not dumber than a bag of rocks. My only criticism so far regarding characters and their arcs is Seren Pedac.
Oh boy, it's yet again rape as a factor in character development, yaaaaaaay. I think I know why Erikson does it, but I'm not a fan of it.
Apart from that... man, I've enjoyed this so much. So damn much. Can't believe I'm so close to the end of the book now!
And a short update regarding personal matters:
Thanks for reading all this. I appreciate your company and support from the other side of this screen.
PS: I still haven't posted about that gift I got. Will post about that later, since it's got pictures.
Since I'm about to start Chapter 24 it means I'm only two chapters (and a short epilogue) away from finishing Midnight Tides. It's not going to be an in-depth update as they used to be but I feel like sharing with you my impressions of the book right as it's about to enter its climax and denouement.
I've loved this. I've found its scope, since it's been pretty different from the previous books, quite refreshing - the fact that we're still following a cast of characters but the divide's clear and they're basically around the same place it feels like it's a lot more self-contained than something like HoC, for example. And, as I've mentioned before, I appreciate how Erikson started this narrative as something so... apart and isolated from the "main" MBOTF story and yet, as you advance through the book, the connections to the overall story become more and more obvious and by the time the last book of the four that comprise MT comes around, we're talking about Forkrul Assail, the T'lan Imass, Kellanved and the Crimson Guard. It doesn't feel cheap or too artificial since the characters who usually speak those terms tend to be characters who know what they're talking about.
Gotta say, how the book has handled Rhulad has been quite a surprise. Even if he's, quite evidently, a raving lunatic with high ambition, the book also shows us repeatedly that the constant deaths he's had take an immense toll on his sanity, he's basically in constant pain, and has enough self-awareness to realize he's fucked up repeatedly (e.g. the Mayen thing, accepting TCG's bargain) and yet feels he must carry that weight since refusing it means TCG will find someone even worse than him as his 'vessel'. It's quite a nuanced portrayal for somebody who could easily be portrayed as a monster with no redeemable qualities about him. Point in case, I loved the scene in one of these last few chapters (22 or 23) in which he spends time with his brothers... just as brothers, not as an Emperor and his subjects.
Also, one thing I've realized it's different in this book compared to the others - that usual feeling of dread, that foreboding sensation that tends to creep up as the climax looms closer? It's got a different flavor this time - it's basically a foregone conclusion that the Tiste Edur will end up conquering Lether, and the book isn't even subtle about it (e.g. Ezkara's ascension witnessed only by his close circle, and Brizad's thought shortly after about Seventh Closure's date having been miscalculated, or the outright obliteration that happened near Brans Keep) so the actual feeling of dread is more about what the fuck happens between this point in time and House of Chains' prologue regarding Trull, and what will happen with all the bodies around the (dead) Azath Tower. It's like the book's going "this war I've teased for hundreds of pages? Yeah, it's a smokescreen for the actual tragedy that'll happen".
Still... man, the characters in this book are damn fine. Tehol and "Bugg" (big-ass quotes, because that ain't his name) remain a hightlight - I loved how Tehol, some couple of chapters ago, almost invented marxism... that got a big laugh from me. Udinaas seems like a pretty compassionate dude. Brys, unlike other "noble" characters in other books, has good intentions *and* he's not dumber than a bag of rocks. My only criticism so far regarding characters and their arcs is Seren Pedac.
Oh boy, it's yet again rape as a factor in character development, yaaaaaaay. I think I know why Erikson does it, but I'm not a fan of it.
Apart from that... man, I've enjoyed this so much. So damn much. Can't believe I'm so close to the end of the book now!
And a short update regarding personal matters:
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PS: I still haven't posted about that gift I got. Will post about that later, since it's got pictures.
Yeah, that was even alluded to in HoC already by Trull.
Anyway, like in all Malazan books, you're in for an eventful last couple chapters...
But yeah, great book, I think my third favorite for now after Memories of Ice (which I don't see ever being dethroned) and Reaper's Gale.
yeah, the way everything comes together in MoI, with that emotional, tragic and overall epic last couple of chapters is just... *chef's kiss*
I've heard great stuff about both The Bonehunters *and* Reaper's Gale so I think I'm a bit hyped to finally get to book 6 😁
Been reading the thread marks here and really enjoying the summaries. It's been a few years since I read anything malazan but some moments I'll never forget in them. MT really is an interesting entry in the premise switch and how it opens up and starts reconnecting everything. Oh and the dialogue in this entry is some of eriksons most humorous, especially of course anything from Tehol and Bugg.
Looking forward to the MT wrap up post.
Looking forward to the MT wrap up post.
thanks, friend! :D
It really is, I'm surprised by the amount of humor it has even if the events surrounding those scenes are really bleak.
As for what the gift I received, some context first:
My oldest friend, someone I've known since we were like 4 or 5 years old, saw some of my MBOTF collection pictures on my Instagram accounts and asked me if those were all the books in the series. I said no, that the main one has 10 in total and I only had 4. So he said "your friend wants to make a donation to your collection". And he bought me one. "Consider it a delayed birthday gift".
I was almost in tears. This was basically a week after what had happened to my dad and so those days had been extremely difficult for me and my mom and to be the recipient of such a selfless gesture... man, I really *really* couldn't thank him enough. I never thought he'd do something like that, not because *he* is unable of doing such a thing, but because *I* never expect those gestures out of NOBODY. But he did. I'm grateful to have such wonderful friends - I didn't ask for a gift, I've barely spoken to him about MBOTF and yet he gifted me a book out of the blue, just because he wanted to. I'm still smiling about it.
Anyway, here it is:
And here's the hardcover collection so far...
They also look pretty nice without the dust jackets:
What a great gift from your friend! and now you have half the main series too.
Also, that bonehunters jacket art is really nice, pretty bold usage of negative space for a book cover.
Also, that bonehunters jacket art is really nice, pretty bold usage of negative space for a book cover.
Yeah, it really surprised me and he was like "nah bro, it's nothing, just enjoy your book" 😭😊
(weird sidenote: finding the spanish HC version of Gardens of the Moon is incredibly hard here. I'll have to import it since it's basically sold out everywhere with no stock replenishment in sight)
yeah, TBH's cover is so good... it makes me really intrested in reading the book to know what the hell's depicting!
Fair warning for Bonehunters in case you're like me and usually want to read a whole chapter at once: the first chapter of the second book (chapter 7) is incredibly long. Like it could be a not so short novel all on its own long.
yeah, I skimmed the book (the spanish HC) and realized the chapter went on and on and on and I thought maybe I missed a chapter heading somewhere... went to the english PPB and realized the chapter was, indeed, incredibly long 😂
Hype.
Midnight Tides is Done
That's it, my friends. Midnight Tides is finally done - some 900 pages done and dusted that I will carry with me for a long time.
There's a couple of things that prevent this book from being my absolute favorite of the entire MBOTF saga so far (mainly how the climax feels and hits) but, nitpicks aside, it's probably my second favorite - not too far behind from Memories of Ice.
What I think this book does pretty damn well is show the reader the idea of poison and corruption, that people and entire nations can get slowly and deceptively subverted by certain ideas or values. Sometimes it turns quite literal (as in Udinaas and the Wyval, or everything about Rhulad, or the effects on Hannan Mosag and his K'risnan by the end of the book, or the resolution to the Ezgara/Nifadas/Brys story) and other times it's more metaphorical (Lether being "poisoned" by greed and unfettered capitalism, the conquered nations being "poisoned" by Lether and thoroughly assimilated after subverting them, Trull and Fear being "poisoned" by doubts and reluctance) but it's like the whole book revolves around that and it works pretty damn well.
The climax I thought wasn't as hard-hitting as MoI's but that's like a very tall order and it's not like there aren't some really difficult to read scenes in this, anyway - the moment in which Tehol and Chalas are brutally and needlessly kicked to death didn't make me cry but I felt the anguish inside because of how utterly senseless it was in the grand scheme of things. I mean, I was furious at the characters, but I didn't feel it was gratuitous or shocking or that it came out of nowhere, if you catch my drift... it made sense for the Edur to devolve into creatures that cared not about mercy or complex reasons, as it mirrored Rhulad's descent into madness. So their brutality, even though it was "in character", was also senseless because it's cruelty for cruelty's sake. And that's another tragedy, one that "carries" from House of Chains - that the Tiste Edur have lost their way and are descending, head first, into wanton cruelty after considering themselves honorable people. On the other hand, that brutal scene also was the impetus for two of my *favorite* scenes, in which Mael, aka "Bugg", just goes HAM on the Edur and we learn that the bloated corpse the Malazans found in MoI belonged to that unlikeable thug Theradas Buhn; and the other one in which Bugg revives Tehol and tells him *why* he has spent all this time posing as his manservant. Just a beautiful, poignant tribute to friendship, that one.
Another thing the climax does great is the feeling of slow-moving dread, a car crash in slow-motion type of sensation akin to Felisin vs Tavore in House of Chains - in this case, everything regarding Rhulad reaching the Eternal Domicile and everything that happens there. From the incredible showdown between Hannan Mosag and Kuru Qan to the quiet, heartbreaking realization in Brys' eyes that it was, indeed, too late, and the crippling indecision of the brothers Sengar that leads to their actual sundering, everything that took place in the Eternal Domicile got me glued to the page. Beautiful, epic and sorrowful - well, that's something that could be applied to the entire saga, right? :P
On the other hand, I thought everything with the Azath Tower and the Barrows to feel kind of... superfluous? It's not filler, but it feels like it's building blocks for something that's gonna be relevant in the future instead of meaningfully closing that narrative thread. I mean, Silchas got out but Sheltatha Lore didn't (for a while, at least) and despite Iron Bars overall badassitude, the threat of the Seregahl was literally dealt with off-page. And that was it. It felt like the "actual" point was for Silchas, the Crimson Guard, Kettle, Shurq and Seren together... and Fear, after parting ways with Trull. But it clearly is more of a "this is a journey's beginning, not its destination" type of thing.
Speaking of the Sengar brothers, it's interesting that we *still* don't know what caused Trull's shorning - we have inklings of ideas, we can assume stuff, but no definite answer (so far). Maybe one day we know. Maybe we don't. But it feels like it's inevitable at this point since Rhulad was begging Trull and Fear to kill him and they both refused (a scene that made me feel *really* bad for Rhulad, I have to admit. It was very well done, Steven Erikson). I can only assume when he comes back he'll probably interpret that reluctance as their brothers disliking him so much they would've preferred to see him suffering instead of granting him mercy... which is doubly sad because Trull stays with him *precisely* to try to steer him, against all odds, from his fast descent into madness. Oh, and Trull... poor guy, really. Not much more to be said considering where he's gonna end up in "the future" of HoC - I do think it's subtly tragic this whole thing with Seren Pedac him gving her the sword, subtly 'nudged' by the Errant I assume, in what's evidently this Edur gesture of betrothal, and both convincing themselves it's "only a weapon to be used". We know they know it's bullshit. And I hope they somehow end up together, these two very damaged precious souls who have seen too much suffering and can't really cope with all the guilt upon their shoulders.
So... all in all, great shit. Great, great shit. Loved the social commentary on capitalism throughout the book, loved the depth of the characters and I thought its somewhat reduced scale (compared to other books in the saga in which we jump from locale to different locale sometimes multiple times per chapter) really worked in its favor, giving it a very... unique flavor in respect to its predecessors. Were it not for the usage of very specific terms (like the Edur/Andii/Liosan stuff, or the KCCM, or Warrens, or the Azath, etc.) I'd actually say some people could start with this one instead of GOTM... but I know people would disagree and I see why. After all, there's a reason Erikson wrote this story after the other four books.
What comes next? You know it, I know it, we all know it... it's THE BONEHUNTERS! I don't think I'll do regular updates anymore (since personal stuff has become really overwhelming) but at least I know I am in the mood for reading, which means the personal issues *are* getting better...
Random stuff, as usual:
There's a couple of things that prevent this book from being my absolute favorite of the entire MBOTF saga so far (mainly how the climax feels and hits) but, nitpicks aside, it's probably my second favorite - not too far behind from Memories of Ice.
What I think this book does pretty damn well is show the reader the idea of poison and corruption, that people and entire nations can get slowly and deceptively subverted by certain ideas or values. Sometimes it turns quite literal (as in Udinaas and the Wyval, or everything about Rhulad, or the effects on Hannan Mosag and his K'risnan by the end of the book, or the resolution to the Ezgara/Nifadas/Brys story) and other times it's more metaphorical (Lether being "poisoned" by greed and unfettered capitalism, the conquered nations being "poisoned" by Lether and thoroughly assimilated after subverting them, Trull and Fear being "poisoned" by doubts and reluctance) but it's like the whole book revolves around that and it works pretty damn well.
The climax I thought wasn't as hard-hitting as MoI's but that's like a very tall order and it's not like there aren't some really difficult to read scenes in this, anyway - the moment in which Tehol and Chalas are brutally and needlessly kicked to death didn't make me cry but I felt the anguish inside because of how utterly senseless it was in the grand scheme of things. I mean, I was furious at the characters, but I didn't feel it was gratuitous or shocking or that it came out of nowhere, if you catch my drift... it made sense for the Edur to devolve into creatures that cared not about mercy or complex reasons, as it mirrored Rhulad's descent into madness. So their brutality, even though it was "in character", was also senseless because it's cruelty for cruelty's sake. And that's another tragedy, one that "carries" from House of Chains - that the Tiste Edur have lost their way and are descending, head first, into wanton cruelty after considering themselves honorable people. On the other hand, that brutal scene also was the impetus for two of my *favorite* scenes, in which Mael, aka "Bugg", just goes HAM on the Edur and we learn that the bloated corpse the Malazans found in MoI belonged to that unlikeable thug Theradas Buhn; and the other one in which Bugg revives Tehol and tells him *why* he has spent all this time posing as his manservant. Just a beautiful, poignant tribute to friendship, that one.
Another thing the climax does great is the feeling of slow-moving dread, a car crash in slow-motion type of sensation akin to Felisin vs Tavore in House of Chains - in this case, everything regarding Rhulad reaching the Eternal Domicile and everything that happens there. From the incredible showdown between Hannan Mosag and Kuru Qan to the quiet, heartbreaking realization in Brys' eyes that it was, indeed, too late, and the crippling indecision of the brothers Sengar that leads to their actual sundering, everything that took place in the Eternal Domicile got me glued to the page. Beautiful, epic and sorrowful - well, that's something that could be applied to the entire saga, right? :P
On the other hand, I thought everything with the Azath Tower and the Barrows to feel kind of... superfluous? It's not filler, but it feels like it's building blocks for something that's gonna be relevant in the future instead of meaningfully closing that narrative thread. I mean, Silchas got out but Sheltatha Lore didn't (for a while, at least) and despite Iron Bars overall badassitude, the threat of the Seregahl was literally dealt with off-page. And that was it. It felt like the "actual" point was for Silchas, the Crimson Guard, Kettle, Shurq and Seren together... and Fear, after parting ways with Trull. But it clearly is more of a "this is a journey's beginning, not its destination" type of thing.
Speaking of the Sengar brothers, it's interesting that we *still* don't know what caused Trull's shorning - we have inklings of ideas, we can assume stuff, but no definite answer (so far). Maybe one day we know. Maybe we don't. But it feels like it's inevitable at this point since Rhulad was begging Trull and Fear to kill him and they both refused (a scene that made me feel *really* bad for Rhulad, I have to admit. It was very well done, Steven Erikson). I can only assume when he comes back he'll probably interpret that reluctance as their brothers disliking him so much they would've preferred to see him suffering instead of granting him mercy... which is doubly sad because Trull stays with him *precisely* to try to steer him, against all odds, from his fast descent into madness. Oh, and Trull... poor guy, really. Not much more to be said considering where he's gonna end up in "the future" of HoC - I do think it's subtly tragic this whole thing with Seren Pedac him gving her the sword, subtly 'nudged' by the Errant I assume, in what's evidently this Edur gesture of betrothal, and both convincing themselves it's "only a weapon to be used". We know they know it's bullshit. And I hope they somehow end up together, these two very damaged precious souls who have seen too much suffering and can't really cope with all the guilt upon their shoulders.
So... all in all, great shit. Great, great shit. Loved the social commentary on capitalism throughout the book, loved the depth of the characters and I thought its somewhat reduced scale (compared to other books in the saga in which we jump from locale to different locale sometimes multiple times per chapter) really worked in its favor, giving it a very... unique flavor in respect to its predecessors. Were it not for the usage of very specific terms (like the Edur/Andii/Liosan stuff, or the KCCM, or Warrens, or the Azath, etc.) I'd actually say some people could start with this one instead of GOTM... but I know people would disagree and I see why. After all, there's a reason Erikson wrote this story after the other four books.
What comes next? You know it, I know it, we all know it... it's THE BONEHUNTERS! I don't think I'll do regular updates anymore (since personal stuff has become really overwhelming) but at least I know I am in the mood for reading, which means the personal issues *are* getting better...
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- The epilogue was great, especially Bugg coming to Withal's aid!! FUCK YEAH!
- Whose finger did Feather Witch find in the Throne Room? I totally missed that.
- Iron Bars was preeeeetty damn badass, gotta say.
- I appreciated the random bits of humor splashed in even when shit is hitting the fan. Harlest doing the hissing shit never fails to make me laugh.
- Gerun Eberict was a goddamn psycho and I'm glad he got rekt
- Poor Hull and, goddammit, I dunno if I feel in peace or not for Brys' fate.
- What I did find horrifying was the fate of Queen Janall and Prince Quillas... ugh.
The book definitely works well enough as a stand alone self contained story that I would recommend it as a starting point or a one off even. I think as a starting point it is a bit weaker if only it doesn't lead to anything for a while and if you start here then going back to GoTM will be extra rough but meeting the people in GoTM is also somewhat essential as there are major figures such as the Bridgeburners, Shadowthrone/Cotillion, Paran, Tool, Rake and a mention of several others.
I believe Brys lost two fingers during his fight against Rhulad.
Some thoughts.
I think you nailed it when you said the way Tehol died was senseless and cruel, cruelty for cruelty's sake which is an attribute some people have. It is easy to forget and I suspect war brings out the worst in everyone, with Rhulad descending into madness and all sorts of indecencies the army is very much following a descent. I shudder to imagine if this army allied with something like the Pannion. The sheer horror of it would be tough to read in deed. I think at the same time there are some other interesting points here. For one, Mael fucked up imo. The world is kinda harsh and cruel, if you have power and don't protect those who do good things from others who would destroy them, that is a mark on you. Despite their power, these gods are not all knowing and make plenty of mistakes, we know that I guess but this one was just such a glaring one to me. It feels like for all the time and prep he had, for all the things he knew it was all still reactionary actions a lot of the time. In a lot of ways he was lucky Iron Bars was able to hold and he was lucky that Silchas was not an enemy.
Trull is one of my favourites in the series, I feel like he is one of those characters that always tries to do what he believes is right and is eternally conflicted and guilty. Many characters suffer similar story beats that put them in place to make tough choices and they follow their choice with conviction - Fear leaving Rhulad is a great example. Trull cannot because he is wracked with guilt. A lot of what he does are things he feels "is right" but also know it will bite him later.
He lets his challenger live despite the warning from his comrades/advisors. He offers his sword to Seren. He returns to Rhulad. All of these are acts where he follows his feelings but will likely have complicated consequences. So seeing these trend I can see why having a figure like this push back against the trend of the current Edur will see him marked a traitor sooner or later.
Seren and Trull felt a little odd because I don't recall them getting a whole lot of time interacting with each other. See them sort of attract each other like that at this point was interesting and I think that was intentional, even Seren was surprised by the sword as was Fear. Like, bro, you serious? It didn't dislike it, but if gave me Romeo x Juliet vibes and we all know how that story goes. I was still rooting for them As to how it goes with Trull and Seren, RAFO hahaha.
Fear is an interesting character in a different way to others. I feel like he keeps a lot more of his true feelings to himself. I was actually really interested to see how the brothers go about their lives on their own.
There is actually a lot of horrifying stuff in this book. Well, most of the books really lol.
Trull is one of my favourites in the series, I feel like he is one of those characters that always tries to do what he believes is right and is eternally conflicted and guilty. Many characters suffer similar story beats that put them in place to make tough choices and they follow their choice with conviction - Fear leaving Rhulad is a great example. Trull cannot because he is wracked with guilt. A lot of what he does are things he feels "is right" but also know it will bite him later.
He lets his challenger live despite the warning from his comrades/advisors. He offers his sword to Seren. He returns to Rhulad. All of these are acts where he follows his feelings but will likely have complicated consequences. So seeing these trend I can see why having a figure like this push back against the trend of the current Edur will see him marked a traitor sooner or later.
Seren and Trull felt a little odd because I don't recall them getting a whole lot of time interacting with each other. See them sort of attract each other like that at this point was interesting and I think that was intentional, even Seren was surprised by the sword as was Fear. Like, bro, you serious? It didn't dislike it, but if gave me Romeo x Juliet vibes and we all know how that story goes. I was still rooting for them As to how it goes with Trull and Seren, RAFO hahaha.
Fear is an interesting character in a different way to others. I feel like he keeps a lot more of his true feelings to himself. I was actually really interested to see how the brothers go about their lives on their own.
There is actually a lot of horrifying stuff in this book. Well, most of the books really lol.
as usual, much appreciate your thoughts on the book - they make me ponder a different perspective and think upon things I might've missed on reading!
- About the fingers: you're totally right and I *had* missed that detail, but went back and confirmed. So now I know! 😁
- I think you make a very valid point regarding Mael, even if the book itself gives him some sort of excuse which basically amounts to "I don't really like you humans and I don't really care because I've seen this shit play time and time again and it always ends the same, but I *do* like you Tehol, and that's why I help you with your shit. Because you care, and you're fun, and you make eternal existence fun", which is both sweet *and* incredibly selfish. Because, as he himself says, he can be very selfish at times. But I think you're right that is a mark against him because he *could* have acted to avoid basically genocide, he just didn't think it was worth doing that. So I guess we could say Mael doesn't care about the human race but he cares, very much, about certain humans (or individual beings) that he considers worth helping.
- Fear is such a special character. I don't think I *like* him but I find myself intrigued by him - he has this aura of being a martial prowess and a fearsome (ha) warrior and a loyal subject but, in the end, he's more like a coward that can't deal with the shit that fell into his plate and had basically depended on Trull voicing *the very same doubts he always had* but never said. And now he's like "nah man, can't watch our bro in this state, gotta find Bloodeye now, I need this quest to give me an actual reason for living", while Trull is like... wracked with guilt and doubts but he *still does* what they demand of him. Which I dunno if it's admirable or not (you could, you know, not obey...) but he faces the music and he ends up paying the price. Fear is like "nah, I'mma peace out now bro"
- Seren and Trull had interacted, IIRC, only once earlier in the book - after Rhulad had become the Emperor and decided to send the Letherii delegation back, she's like standing on a bridge and he sees her there and they chat very briefly and they both wanted to have a different conversation at the moment yet the only words that came out were like very curt and disappointing. I think they both were immediately attracted to each other because they both saw the other as something of a kindred (broken) spirit.
Yeah, I'm with you on "I'm not sure I like Fear". But in comparison to Trull, I think it is probably a bit unfair if only because Trull had Fear to look to for guidance. Fear is to me a caricature of warrior, lead of the family type character which includes a lot of traits that fall in line with modern toxic masculinity. Bottling up a lot emotions as he needs to be seen as the dependable one, the strong one who doesn't break. He is Trull's hero and not just his brother. Fear didn't really have any such figure for guidance or reliance and worse yet everything he is trying to protect is being destroyed in ways he cannot fight against. So him going off to try and find a way to solve things using what he knows and believes in traditionally makes a lot of sense to me.
Trull being second child also means he got to see Fear hit all the road blocks and pave a path on what to do, how to do it better etc.
Mael stuff. When you finish Toll the Hounds dive back up a few posts for the video on Kallor for some fun thinking and rethinking of things. 🤣
Trull being second child also means he got to see Fear hit all the road blocks and pave a path on what to do, how to do it better etc.
Mael stuff. When you finish Toll the Hounds dive back up a few posts for the video on Kallor for some fun thinking and rethinking of things. 🤣
I think you're right seeing Fear under the prism of "older brother" + toxic masculinity. I hadn't considered that perspective which is funny considering I *am* the eldest son of my parents 🤣
And yes, I will watch that video! Gonna take a while though but I'll keep that bookmarked hahaha
Yeah, it's not the first (nor last) social commentary I found in Erickson's books (though that's definitively not a focus in any way, more like side snark to our modern times), though by far the most overt.
Yeah, I already said as much a couple pages back, but if I have one criticism of Erickson, it's that he can't write romance for shit.
Heck, the most believable couple is probably Iskaral Pust and Morgara....(though that's mostly because they both are so over the top)
Anyway, book one of Toll the Hounds down... After being denied Karsa vs. Icarum, will we get Karsa vs. "Traveler" (we all know who that really is)?
I wasn't that keen from the backcover / first chapter, but like most Malazan books, it's slowly gripping me. And seems a little bit more focused than previous books with "only" three main plotlines apparently (for now at least).
It's been quite some time but this new update isn't about anything MBOTF related... or, in a roundabout way, it kinda is - it explains why I haven't been able to read and advance in TBH since I last updated this thread.
Thank you everybody for your support in this thread. It's been great <3
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Thanks mate, I'm just still in shock a bit. It blindsided us and here I am, all devastated and confused and angry at the same time.
Thank mate, it's been nightmarish tbh. At times you think you can manage and function normally, other times you just break down almost completely. And that's kinda the toughest part - anybody can visit and make you have a good (considering the circumstances) time, but once they leave you're left with that same awful bottomless pit of grief.
thank you mate, we're slowly managing thanks to the help of some of my dad's relatives. I just think it's absolutely disgusting this system basically forces the bereaved to do a lot of bureaucratic chores "quickly" otherwise they're screwed. We're in fucking mourning, with our heads in a million places and our hearts in disarray and we have to go to our healthcare provider to ask for this specific document so I can present it to my dad's insurance company with other documents and ask for the specific doctor who treated my dad to fill in in a very specific form so i can also present it to the insurance company and so on and so on.
Fucking hell. Literally.
The Bonehunters Prologue + Chapter 1
It's been a long, long time... hasn't it?
I had tentatively started TBH right around my dad's passing, but those last days of his life/the first days after his passing were emotionally heavy as fuck, so I honestly had no way of doing justice to the book. There was simply no way for me to get into the necessary headspace for reading such a book and a series, so I just had to drop it until I felt ready.
I can't even begin to describe what these 3 months have felt like. They're an unsolveable paradox, both eternal and incredibly transient at the same time. The absence is palpable and heartbreaking and there are moments in which my mom and I just break down crying over small details that remind us of him... but, then again, when basically everything reminds us of him and how great and loving he was, how can we not? We are still in the midst of our grief, this bereavement is far from over.
And it gets worse because there's *a lot* of red tape and formalities that had to be done and, to be honest, it was (and still remains) frustrating. You're forced to do these things right in the middle of your grieving process and that's the window of action you're given otherwise you're fucked. And we have to deal with that, in our way. Some things have worked out fine, others... we're still waiting. And it's that wait what makes us nervous.
So, with all that in our current life... I decided I had regained a bit of myself that was drifting amidst all the sorrow and realized I could finally return to reading the series for the time being. Even if my pace becomes even slower, I think I'm currently at the stage in which I can more or less focus in the narrative when reading instead of just knowing my heart isn't on it.
Thus, I'm thinking I'm back.
Random stuff from the Prologue and C1:
I had tentatively started TBH right around my dad's passing, but those last days of his life/the first days after his passing were emotionally heavy as fuck, so I honestly had no way of doing justice to the book. There was simply no way for me to get into the necessary headspace for reading such a book and a series, so I just had to drop it until I felt ready.
I can't even begin to describe what these 3 months have felt like. They're an unsolveable paradox, both eternal and incredibly transient at the same time. The absence is palpable and heartbreaking and there are moments in which my mom and I just break down crying over small details that remind us of him... but, then again, when basically everything reminds us of him and how great and loving he was, how can we not? We are still in the midst of our grief, this bereavement is far from over.
And it gets worse because there's *a lot* of red tape and formalities that had to be done and, to be honest, it was (and still remains) frustrating. You're forced to do these things right in the middle of your grieving process and that's the window of action you're given otherwise you're fucked. And we have to deal with that, in our way. Some things have worked out fine, others... we're still waiting. And it's that wait what makes us nervous.
So, with all that in our current life... I decided I had regained a bit of myself that was drifting amidst all the sorrow and realized I could finally return to reading the series for the time being. Even if my pace becomes even slower, I think I'm currently at the stage in which I can more or less focus in the narrative when reading instead of just knowing my heart isn't on it.
Thus, I'm thinking I'm back.
Random stuff from the Prologue and C1:
- Fist sized spiders would make me run away and don't look back. As an aracnophobe I'd probably feel the same as Hellian.
- Kartool seemed like a "nice" place before the Malazan conquest, ay? With all the flaying, the stoning of stray dogs and overall ritual killing. It's an interesting (darkly funny) spin on the "things used to be better until *you people* arrived"
- This Banaschar fellow is not who/what he seems to be and I'm definitely intrigued. Considering the previous history of this series, I'm not making a random assumption when I say that Banaschar is either not his real name, or he's far more powerful than he's currently letting on.
- Everything about Dejim Nebrahl and the ritual of the Nameless Ones gives me the creeps. It's so ominous and creepy, and I don't know if the 11 Nameless Ones knew they were going to get immediately killed/devoured or was it Spite (Lady Envy's sister!) pulling a fast one on them and freeing Dejim for her own (so far unknown) purposes. Either way, creepy as fuck and it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
- I wonder if the Nameless Ones actually are "the hands of the Azath, the shapers of the will of the Azath" (as in they were clearly tasked by the Azath) or they *believe* themselves to be so, by an actually twisted interpretation of whatever the actual will of the Azath is by imposing *their* meaning upon it?
- Due to the blacksmith's appearance and surname, he must be related to Kalam, right?
- Apsalar's current state is quite depressive and depressing, though it also stems from her being quite... ignorant of how love and relationships work. I don't forget she was basically a kid when she got possessed by Cotillion and then whisked away from her life. It's clear she's a bit emotionally stunted and can't really deal with the complexity of human relationships.
- I don't know if I enjoy Curdle and Telorast, but I am intrigued about whom* do they actually serve. I don't know if I've previously read about "Edgewalker" but it doesn't ring a bell and it's been so long that I'm bound to have forgotten certain details.
- I do, on the other hand, enjoy Corabb and Leoman and how they are both dealing with the situation at hand. "Our commander prays to Dryjhna all day" got me laughing.
- I also enjoy the reappearance of one Karsa Orlong... loving the fact that the first thing he did inside the city was throwing a guard against a wagon and that him being so forthright almost fucks everything up (for the rest of the guards, obviously - I don't think they would've managed to even scratch him)
- Mebra finally got what was coming to him, eh? The duplicitous bastard. Though it's interesting that a literal Nameless One got involved - they're starting to finally make themselves known and active, it seems.
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thanks, mate! Hopefully this serves to reinvigorate both my first journey and your own re-read!
I hope you are hanging in there Altazor .
I also had to pause my read of the series on hold (currently buying a flat, I have far too much administrative stuff to handle).
I finished Toll the Hounds just before Christmas, like so often Erikson nailed the last quarter of the books, so much stuff happening, so many great characters involved...
I hope to continue with the last couple books this summer.
Which by the way, I would encourage you to at least read Return of the Crimson Guard before Toll the Hounds. It details the travels of one of the protagonist of TtH (though that's not much), but there's something monumental happening in RotCG that, while not mentioned yet where I'm at in the Erikson books, should have some impact before the end.
(Night of Knives is also a relatively short entertaining read, even if it doesn't reach the quality of the Erikson books)
I also had to pause my read of the series on hold (currently buying a flat, I have far too much administrative stuff to handle).
I finished Toll the Hounds just before Christmas, like so often Erikson nailed the last quarter of the books, so much stuff happening, so many great characters involved...
I hope to continue with the last couple books this summer.
You haven't read about him yet if you didn't read the Esslemont books.
Which by the way, I would encourage you to at least read Return of the Crimson Guard before Toll the Hounds. It details the travels of one of the protagonist of TtH (though that's not much), but there's something monumental happening in RotCG that, while not mentioned yet where I'm at in the Erikson books, should have some impact before the end.
(Night of Knives is also a relatively short entertaining read, even if it doesn't reach the quality of the Erikson books)
Thanks mate! I hope you're able to enjoy your new place ASAP, all that bureaucracy stuff is soul draining.
As for RotCG, I'll see what I can do! Do you recommend to read it after TBH, or after RG?
Well, once I have the flat, there'll be two month renovation, so... no, won't enjoy it until summer 🙃
I went with that recommended reading order:
So between Reaper's Gale and Toll the Hounds. Also fits there really well chronologically.
Also I seem in the minority, but I found it better than the weaker Erikson books, though far bellow the best. Well, aside any chapter with Ghelel in it, god where those a waste of time.
thank you! it's good to be back :)
Maybe try with the Esslemont books? Or maybe read something completely different, something standalone and/or shorter, because it's easy to get "epic saga fatigue"? At least I know I would 😁