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Altazor

Altazor

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I'm halfway through Chapter 22 and holy shit, I'm just tensing constantly since everything is on the edge of falling apart

just read the part where Hellian violently kills the Claw dude that was going to murder Banaschar and that was like a minor W in a sea of nervousness and tension, lmao
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Finished C22 and already started C23. I legit can't believe I'm basically on the second to last chapter of this book (sans Epilogue) less than two weeks after I restarted my reading. After months, probably half a year more or less, without mustering the energy to read a single page off TBH, I ended up blitzing through 8 whole chapters in like 12 days. Fucking hell! That's what my hyperfocus tends to be like, I guess 🤣

I'm both glued to my seat and horrified to keep on reading since everything seems to be going to Hood's realm and I foresee some very awful shit going on before the book comes to a close. I'm not ready to have my heart broken again again but it seems MBOTF is built on that kind of stuff 😂

And what I'm finding very interesting this time around is that the (second) climax of TBH seems to concern a situation that was mostly developed in the past few chapters - unlike, say, the Fête in GotM, or the Edur invasion in MT, the siege of Coral in MoI or the whole Raraku rebellion/showdown in HoC. This one's like (Chapters 17 onwards)oh yeah, did you know there's a fucking anti-Wickan pogrom going on in Malaz City while the army was in another fucking continent? Let me show you how fucked up it's gonna get! and you barely get any hints from that beforehand. And if we do, I totally 100% missed them.

But man, I'm dreaded this resolution. I'm anxious and hyped but also cautious. Once more unto the breach.
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
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Oct 25, 2017
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Morizora's Forest
Finished C22 and already started C23. I legit can't believe I'm basically on the second to last chapter of this book (sans Epilogue) less than two weeks after I restarted my reading. After months, probably half a year more or less, without mustering the energy to read a single page off TBH, I ended up blitzing through 8 whole chapters in like 12 days. Fucking hell! That's what my hyperfocus tends to be like, I guess 🤣

I'm both glued to my seat and horrified to keep on reading since everything seems to be going to Hood's realm and I foresee some very awful shit going on before the book comes to a close. I'm not ready to have my heart broken again again but it seems MBOTF is built on that kind of stuff 😂

And what I'm finding very interesting this time around is that the (second) climax of TBH seems to concern a situation that was mostly developed in the past few chapters - unlike, say, the Fête in GotM, or the Edur invasion in MT, the siege of Coral in MoI or the whole Raraku rebellion/showdown in HoC. This one's like (Chapters 17 onwards)oh yeah, did you know there's a fucking anti-Wickan pogrom going on in Malaz City while the army was in another fucking continent? Let me show you how fucked up it's gonna get! and you barely get any hints from that beforehand. And if we do, I totally 100% missed them.

But man, I'm dreaded this resolution. I'm anxious and hyped but also cautious. Once more unto the breach.

Yeah, I think the part in the spoiler was intentional, neither the 14th or the reader are meant to expect it until later and then it feels inevitable and fucked up and you're left to wonder what is this going to result in. How can this be salvaged or will it end in tragedy or both?.

I remember when I read up to the drinking game which I think you've past given that Hellian is on land, I was so confused but even recognising some of the cards I was excited and tore through the remainder of the book in a long night of reading lol.
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Yeah, I think the part in the spoiler was intentional, neither the 14th or the reader are meant to expect it until later and then it feels inevitable and fucked up and you're left to wonder what is this going to result in. How can this be salvaged or will it end in tragedy or both?.

I remember when I read up to the drinking game which I think you've past given that Hellian is on land, I was so confused but even recognising some of the cards I was excited and tore through the remainder of the book in a long night of reading lol.

Yeah, absolutely. It blindsides both the 14th and the reader, and it's scarily effective at that.

I gotta be honest, I have no idea what the hell went on with Fiddler's card game stuff. But then again that's always me with the card stuff Erikson writes, it makes me feel like I have literally zero clue what he's talking about and I'm pretty sure that's also by design 🤣

Fuck Mallick Rel. That is all

Indeed. Fuck that guy.
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
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I gotta be honest, I have no idea what the hell went on with Fiddler's card game stuff. But then again that's always me with the card stuff Erikson writes, it makes me feel like I have literally zero clue what he's talking about and I'm pretty sure that's also by design 🤣

I didn't really get it either and even when I read back after the events things doesn't necessarily make sense. However, Quick, Kal, Aps being involved was immediately grabbing my attention. The way it ended with Quick annoyed at the unturned card was also kind of fun because Quick is someone who likes to know and plan ahead so having an unturned card in front of him I can just imagine how much it eats at him. Yet he respected the rules and didn't turn flip the card over. I won't say more than that because it is a little bit alluding to future events so I'll let you read and enjoy the events that unfold first.
 
The Bonehunters is done.
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Altazor

Altazor

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This is it, then. Finally here. Took me more than a fucking year (started on March 2023, finished on the very last day of April 2024) but we're finally here.

The Bonehunters is finished!

To say it's been quite a ride it'd be underselling it. I think the book's most notable feature is also one of its biggest obstacles - as Erikson has said, it's essentially two books in one. And it kinda shows at times - you have two narrative climaxes with hundreds and hundreds of pages between them (C7 and C23/24) which means after the first one you have to rebuild everything towards the second one. And that march can be somewhat of a slog, especially when the first one was the resolution of a longstanding plot element (the siege of Y'ghatan was, for all intents and purposes, the last gasp of the Malazan vs Rebellion storyline that began in Book 2) and the *second one* was basically the starting point of a new status quo (everything in Malaz City) mixed with the resolution of another longstanding plot (the defense of the First Throne). It's... a lot. Like *a lot*. And I think you have to definitely buy in into everything Erikson's selling and be patient because it's not the most exciting book in the world at times but I think the payoff's worth it. Or both payoffs, to be sure.

I don't think I can summarize and refer to everything that happened in the book after C21 but I'll say some very random, messy thoughts about the whole thing (C22/23):
  • As I said earlier ITT, I find interesting that the (second) climax of the book was a situation that appeared and was developed basically a bunch of pages before it actually happens, unlike most of the other Convergences we've seen previously. So it takes you by surprise and it's tense and gripping because you seriously don't know where it's gonna go and how dark it can really get.
  • I appreciate the way Erikson manages to still mix some comedy elements (some worked better than others) in between all the tension and dread - I especially liked Touchy and Brethless' reaction to Hellian dropping off the ship. As for one that didn't work as well for me, the "shit war" between ships wasn't really that funny to me BUT I totally see a bunch of soldiers doing that kind of stuff.
  • The same can be said about the actual emotional moments in between the brutality and the tension - I adored Fiddler's song for the fallen (those who already fell, those who will) and his realization afterwards that brutality and inequity can also be found in peacetime. Hell, it's often worse, since there's an aura and pretense of moral judgment and grandstanding in peacetime that isn't found during war. Heartbreaking stuff. Then again, Fid has become one of my favorites in the whole series so far. Another moment I found particularly effective even if I had no major affinity with the character was Pearl's dying moments and Lostara's mercy kill. I still don't know how to feel about Pearl but I do think the guy was a mass of contradictions and that made him interesting - and, I guess, he thought himself as a bigger player than he actually ended up being. Poor sod.
  • Tavore/T'amber/Kalam's journey in Malaz City was some badass stuff. I loved how Erikson portrayed that even with Kalam's actual superiority vs the rest of the fodder, by the end he was kinda running on fumes and his body was exerting itself beyond any limit. Man, that "Well, so be it, I've been getting sick of this life anyway" line when the Quick Ben acorn stuff didn't work was like a knife in my heart. Of course, the fact that Pearl was the one to shoot him with a Paralt bolt because of petty fucking reasons that were also misguided was the shit cherry on top. As for Tavore and T'amber... man, I really enjoyed getting to know them better after hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages in which they were essentially an enigma. Tavore, especially, got some real spotlights in these sections - and you can see she's far more human and far more astute than she lets on. T'amber... correct me if I'm wrong but she was just a normal lady that was possessed by the Eres'al the whole time? Essentially an equivalent to "Sorry"-era Apsalar?
  • Obligatory FUCK MALLICK REL comment here. Those court room scenes with Laseen/Mallick Rel/Korbolo Dom were infuriating, made my skin crawl. I appreciated Tavore's sly (and some not that sly) digs at Rel and that she ended up doing what was best for her soldiers instead of following the Empress/Rel's plan. That said, I hate myself for understanding *why* Laseen went with that idea, because it's disgusting realpolitik shit that makes my blood boil but it's understandable IMHO if you're a leader of a nation and there's no actual concept of "human rights" and "international rules of war" in this world... like, "we're going to starve soon, the Seven Cities campaign was a bust and it's a big fucking unusable desert + sea, we need farmlands and we're going to have to take them from the Wickans, they're a perfect scapegoat and we'll ensure the Empire's survival with this. Better them than us, right?" is some gross but plausible shit that I'm pretty damn sure every world leader in a similar position has thought *even in this era*, because Human Rights be damned!
  • The whole Bottle stuff kinda went over my head because it really felt like "hey, go do this important thing" and then he did offscreen and we just see the results of it after everything goes down. At least we end up knowing WHO Foreigner is... and, gotta say, I did let a "oh SHIT!" escape my mouth very loudly when that happened. I did NOT expect to see Withal. And much less Sandalath Drukorlat... who is now his wife?! Damn
  • A small moment but when we see the Tiste Andii refugees from Drift Avalii and we learn who they are, I find it completely hilarious that Lady Envy fucked Anomander Rake's son out of spite *and* gave him a daughter. I mean, Lady Spite is her sister but the name fits Envy too 😂
  • The whole "we've got the plague!" gambit was some really clever stuff, loved that from Keneb. And fuck Rynyg and his pompous ass.
  • Don't ask me about the Fiddler card game scene. I have no idea. I'm sure it'll become clear once I finish the series but at this point I'm pretty sure *most* of it went over my head except some more obvious stuff (like Trull in House Shadow)
  • Stormy is A SHIELD ANVIL?! TO WHOM?!!?!
  • Grub vexes me. I have to know how the fuck that kid knows so much.
  • I loved loved loved Hellian's role in this. Loved the fact that it was the payoff of something that happened in the first 15 or so pages of the book, the fact that she finally found Banaschar again and fucking ARRESTED HIM, lmao
  • APSALAR!! god I hope she's not forced to be a killer anymore after this. I hope she's *done* after Pearl. Felt karmic but also very cruel/taxing on the soul.
  • I really wonder where the Bonehunters are going now. I think it's an interesting parallel between the Bridgeburners being (seemingly but not really) outlawed in MoI and now the Bridgeburners being actually outlawed (and almost killed) in TBH.
  • Kalam ending in the Deadhouse courtesy of Shadowthrone makes me wonder what the hell's going to happen with him now. Exciting times ahead!
  • On the other hand, Fiddler's farewell... 😭 "Kalam Mekhar, my friend. Farewell." Poor guy has lost so much and so many in these books.
And we haven't even got to Chapter 24 + epilogue...
  • Fuck you Erikson, you manipulative POS with that kids' scene with Onrack. You bastard. Of course the poor, innocent, sweet kid was going to be immediately murdered.
  • Fuck Taralack Veed too, another manipulative POS. Of course this one's in-storyline, and I fucking hated seeing him so distraught at what he helped unleash - hey, idiot, it's FAFO.
  • Of course, Icarium unleashed is some incredibly fucked up stuff. Damn, just... so brutal. So unstoppable. I think it's safe to distinguish between Icarium and his Lifestealer persona? They're completely different even though they're technically the same guy. But, fuck, this chapter was a brutal and stark reminder of what Lifestealer can actually do... and it's not pretty.
  • RIP Ahlrada Ahn, you at least managed to somewhat regain your honor and do a selfless act. Also RIP the children, RIP Apt the Aptorian and RIP Monok Ochem
  • Trull continues to be incredible. Love that character. What a dude.
  • Holy crap Quick Ben! of course Shadowthrone's debt was gonna be repaid in the climax and... hell, even QB wasn't enough to stop Lifestealer!! I literally thought we were gonna lose Ben too
  • I did think the Eres'al appearing randomly and managing to calm down Lifestealer was a bit Deus Ex Machina, but then I'm sure it has some explanation I'm not seeing right now.
  • That final scene of Cotillion is just some incredible stuff. Really *chef's kiss*. I love that Erikson managed to make me feel something about a dude that started the series possessing the body of a random fisher girl.
  • There's a lot of good stuff in the epilogue. I really liked Cutter and Scillara's conversation and especially the sweetness in Cutter's comments about Apsalar's dance. The Karsa/Samar Dev moment is such a fucking tease Karsa vs Icarium, round 2!.
  • Fuck Taralack Veed again, it's interesting to see him now so broken, bitter and venomous with Icarium after realizing what the fuck he just did. And man, Icarium's "there is no need" just gave me chills. That doesn't fill me with confidence or nice thoughts at all.
  • And Tayschrenn... well, the guy is playing some long game and basically knows *a lot* of what's going on. And he's still on D'rek's cult, he just managed to talk D'rek out of killing him! And what's with his "fear for your own child" line to Shadowthrone? Something figurative or literal?
All in all, a great -if insanely laborious- read at times. The fact that it took me longer than a year to finish with a months-long hiatus cannot be excluded from the conversation *but* there's also the fact that once I returned from that hiatus I managed to more or less devour the remaining chapters of the book in less than two week speaks volumes. It was, I think, less about the book itself and more about my own frame of mind during part of my read. Once that hurdle was cleared... smooth sailing!

I'm itching to read Reaper's Gale now, since I've got the momentum. It's another big-ass book but I hope there's not another need for a long hiatus in the mix. Hope it doesn't take me a full year :D

See you all soon and thanks for accompanying me in this journey!
 

Jisgsaw

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Oct 27, 2017
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Man, I really should go back to my own read through the series. I'm on the finishing line (Dust of Dreams), but just too much stuff to do IRL right now... Hopefully this summer I'll have more time.

I'm itching to read Reaper's Gale now, since I've got the momentum. It's another big-ass book but I hope there's not another need for a long hiatus in the mix. Hope it doesn't take me a full year :D
Well, for what it's worth, it's quite comfortably my second favorite book (for now). A lot of threads come together in this one.
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Man, I really should go back to my own read through the series. I'm on the finishing line (Dust of Dreams), but just too much stuff to do IRL right now... Hopefully this summer I'll have more time.


Well, for what it's worth, it's quite comfortably my second favorite book (for now). A lot of threads come together in this one.

which one's your favorite?
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I dont know if it has already been recommended, but re read of the fallen on the tor website is a great resource to help you not get lost.
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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I dont know if it has already been recommended, but re read of the fallen on the tor website is a great resource to help you not get lost.

yeah, I've been relying on it a lot (that and the Reader's Guides that are on GoogleDrive but those stop after TBH) and they're a *great* help :D


it's so good. I often think of that book's climax and I get goosebumps.

"Compassion is priceless in the truest sense of the word. It must be given freely. In abundance."
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
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Don't ask me about the Fiddler card game scene. I have no idea. I'm sure it'll become clear once I finish the series but at this point I'm pretty sure *most* of it went over my head except some more obvious stuff (like Trull in House Shadow)

It is mostly just nonsense to alludes to the climax of the book.

Ben got lifestealer card. We know how that went. (The unturned Knight of Shadow card being between them).
Kalam had a decision to make.
Apsalar had a shadow card so she will be doing things for High House Shadow which Fiddler essentially laughs off and says this card is all she ever gets any way.
One of the cards reveals Grub was off the ship but Fiddler says he'll be back.
I don't really remember anything else and found Tavore's stuff to be typically the most hard to read but overall I think we can say it wraps up the events of this book. The card game doesn't look further into the future than that as far as I'm aware.

Fuck you Erikson, you manipulative POS with that kids' scene with Onrack.
Erikson uses children as a victim in wars quite often. From Felisin to the banner Gruntle used during the Pannion war. It is brutal, cruel and effective. That scene though... Oooof. The fact that it happens and everyone just gets up and commences the killing is equally heartbreaking and disturbing.

T'amber... correct me if I'm wrong but she was just a normal lady that was possessed by the Eres'al the whole time? Essentially an equivalent to "Sorry"-era Apsalar?
Often but not the whole time. I don't know if it takes over
T'amber's will and actions. I suspect it is more like the old crone who stole away into Sorry to protect her from Cotillion. It did however give her some resilience and kept her going well past a point she should have been able to withstand.

I did think the Eres'al appearing randomly and managing to calm down Lifestealer was a bit Deus Ex Machina, but then I'm sure it has some explanation I'm not seeing right now.
I am somewhat not entirely happy with the Eres'al usage here.
Here and with T'amber. I think the fact that it was completely out of everyone's control and no one has any idea of the Eres'al's will or intentions is somewhat frustrating. That she can go and do as she pleases makes everything else seem less significant. We don't even know if it is the same Eres'al. I do note that the healing which brought Onrack back to us is quite strong. The children and others were too late, not even the Eres'al healing can fix blasted into "a bloody mist" but it makes me wonder if the Eres'al could have prevented T'amber's death. We will probably come back in future books to touch on the consequences of this part.

  • Trull continues to be incredible. Love that character. What a dude.
  • Holy crap Quick Ben! of course Shadowthrone's debt was gonna be repaid in the climax and... hell, even QB wasn't enough to stop Lifestealer!! I literally thought we were gonna lose Ben too

Way back somewhere in the thread I mentioned Trull is probably my favourite character in the series. I think he is just consistent in his struggles for everything and he keeps finding himself in these... situations. Yet it all sort of makes sense as well when you know him, just like Alhrada looked at the children and Trull and instantly connected why Trull stood against them.

I also love the exchange with Quick Ben during the fight. So intense that they didn't even get to exchange names and yet Trull still brings him inside. I also kind of laughed at how casual QB was like "I'm done. He is all yours now Edur" and Trull steps up any way and entertains himself with a "Yes, its me again" when he stares into the eyes of a berserking Icarium.

The line from Trull that caught me off most unexpectedly was when he went off at Cotillion and then felt bad and said Cotillion probably didn't deserve that. I also like how he said he won't fight here again but then asks for the others to be allowed to leave as this is the real reason he stood in defense of the throne.

All in all, the aftermath was so memorable. Cotillion is a really interersting character. It makes me wonder how he would have faired against Icarium and what he would have done, assuming winning is not a legit option.
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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It is mostly just nonsense to alludes to the climax of the book.

Ben got lifestealer card. We know how that went. (The unturned Knight of Shadow card being between them).
Kalam had a decision to make.
Apsalar had a shadow card so she will be doing things for High House Shadow which Fiddler essentially laughs off and says this card is all she ever gets any way.
One of the cards reveals Grub was off the ship but Fiddler says he'll be back.
I don't really remember anything else and found Tavore's stuff to be typically the most hard to read but overall I think we can say it wraps up the events of this book. The card game doesn't look further into the future than that as far as I'm aware.


Erikson uses children as a victim in wars quite often. From Felisin to the banner Gruntle used during the Pannion war. It is brutal, cruel and effective. That scene though... Oooof. The fact that it happens and everyone just gets up and commences the killing is equally heartbreaking and disturbing.


Often but not the whole time. I don't know if it takes over
T'amber's will and actions. I suspect it is more like the old crone who stole away into Sorry to protect her from Cotillion. It did however give her some resilience and kept her going well past a point she should have been able to withstand.


I am somewhat not entirely happy with the Eres'al usage here.
Here and with T'amber. I think the fact that it was completely out of everyone's control and no one has any idea of the Eres'al's will or intentions is somewhat frustrating. That she can go and do as she pleases makes everything else seem less significant. We don't even know if it is the same Eres'al. I do note that the healing which brought Onrack back to us is quite strong. The children and others were too late, not even the Eres'al healing can fix blasted into "a bloody mist" but it makes me wonder if the Eres'al could have prevented T'amber's death. We will probably come back in future books to touch on the consequences of this part.



Way back somewhere in the thread I mentioned Trull is probably my favourite character in the series. I think he is just consistent in his struggles for everything and he keeps finding himself in these... situations. Yet it all sort of makes sense as well when you know him, just like Alhrada looked at the children and Trull and instantly connected why Trull stood against them.

I also love the exchange with Quick Ben during the fight. So intense that they didn't even get to exchange names and yet Trull still brings him inside. I also kind of laughed at how casual QB was like "I'm done. He is all yours now Edur" and Trull steps up any way and entertains himself with a "Yes, its me again" when he stares into the eyes of a berserking Icarium.

The line from Trull that caught me off most unexpectedly was when he went off at Cotillion and then felt bad and said Cotillion probably didn't deserve that. I also like how he said he won't fight here again but then asks for the others to be allowed to leave as this is the real reason he stood in defense of the throne.

All in all, the aftermath was so memorable. Cotillion is a really interersting character. It makes me wonder how he would have faired against Icarium and what he would have done, assuming winning is not a legit option.

As usual, thanks for taking the time to reply mate 😊 I agree with a lot of your comments - of course, as much as I can agree with knowing what I currently know.

  • About the card scene: thanks, that does make sense! I did love Fid's "that's Life for you" at the end, too - nice double entendre
  • About the children: agree. Not for nothing the first thing Erikson does in that scene is bring back the fact that these children were crucified in Seven Cities and we're saved from that . Of course there's also the fact that even in MoI, the Pannion Seer was essentially a child/child-like being that was in constant pain and being manipulated. In a sense, yet another victim of war.
  • About the Eres'al: yeah, that's why it all felt a bit DEM to me. It was like "man, wasn't that convenient?", especially at the end. Of course it may have a more elaborate explanation but it probably will make more sense after the rest of the books.
  • About Trull: FUCK YES. Love that about him. It's like the guy just keeps bumping into these situations that are larger than him but even though he gets sad and grieves, he still tries to do the most decent and moral thing instead of just giving up to nihilism. And absolutely agree about the exchanges with both QB and Cotillion - especially the last one, who was moved by the situation almost to the point of not having any words. In general I'm loving how Cotillion feels more and more human now after he ascended compared to Shadowthrone, who's like far more inscrutable and beyond human morality as time passes
 
Reaper's Gale Prologue + Chapter 1
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Altazor

Altazor

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It's a new week, it's a new book it's a new life

It's Reaper's Gale time!

We're finally in Book 7 of 10 and we're already some pages in. It's a very cold and rainy day here (which I love!), so I'm in a good mood... let's try and offer some random thoughts on what I've read so far, shall we?

Prologue:
  • We're back to the more mythical prologues this time, unlike the one in TBH which offered a scene set in the present - even though Gods had left their mark there, we were grounded by more 'pedestrian' characters to guide us then. Now we're back walking amidst gods and immortal beings, hopping between the time of the Sundering of Kurald Emurlahn to the last days of King Ezgara Diskanar (e.g. during the events of Midnight Tides)
  • I think this is the first time we've seen Kilmandaros? I'm pretty sure the name has appeared before but I don't think we've seen her in the flesh. That appearance is scary but also reminds me of the Forkrul Assail (the long limbs with multiple joints) - I wonder if those are "her children" that are named later in the prologue
  • Part of this prologue is essentially a continuation of Midnight Tides' prologue - obviously fitting, since this novel focuses on a lot of threads left over from that book. And, thus, we see Mael (hi, Bugg!) and Gothos talk to Kilmandaros about Scabandari Bloodeye *after* Gothos has finished the spell that 'preserves'/freezes the land. We see Mael and Kilmandaros have finally taken down Scabandari *and* we learn why in the present his body's just a dragon skeleton with his skull caved in (can't say he didn't deserve it), but most importantly we see that Gothos convinces Kilmandaros to not outright kill Bloodeye but rather let him prepare a Finnest in which Scabandari's soul will be kept. We don't know which object the Finnest is (Erikson, such a tease) and we don't know what Gothos intends to do with it either. RAFO! 😅
  • We then see Anomander Rake for the first time in quite a while. Hey there, bud! It's not an entirely comfortable conversation between Rake and Kilmandaros but he manages to convince her that he can help her. He agrees to not occupy the Throne of Shadow and leaves with her.
  • Time jump into the last days of Ezgara Diskanar and we meet another new character, the then-Preda Bivatt, surveying a scene that leaves her somewhat surprised: not only the remnants of destroyed Meckros city washing ashore but also thousands of war canoes... and no trace of their occupants. They straight up vanished.
  • We're now in the Aw'ldan (which, I'm assuming, is an expanse of land populated by the Awl), where a rider wearing a mask (in other words, a masked rider 🙄) finds a particular scene of slaughter - an army wearing the sigil of two wolves (Togg and Fanderay, I'm thinking) lies dead and, more curiously, their chests are burst open and their hearts are missing. The wolves on the Awl'dan have fed on the corpses but have only eaten their hearts. Then the rider's companions get near... they sound like "the rake of talons hissing through grass" (hmmmm... KCKM? 🤔)
Chapter 1:
  • Oh boy, it's a cavalcade of new characters! Hopefully I didn't get that lost considering the first few scenes feature people we have NEVER seen before and they all have particularly unusual names but... after a while I think we can already gleam who's who and that's something commendable from Erikson - even the complicated names in made up languages can be memorable and identifiable.
  • So... Karos Invictad, head of the Patriotists (Letherii Secret Police) and Tanal Yathvanar is his underling. Both shitheads but Karos more in a creepy "this guy's the head of the organization for a goddamn reason" way and Tanal in a very base "this guy's a fucking creep and I hate him" way. God I hated Tanal, he's probably the most disgusting character since Bidithal and that says a lot. If not Bidithal, then Gerun Eberict.
  • Hey, who would've thought - Tanal actually admires Gerun Eberict and his mass murderous ways. Scum attracts scum. I think my visceral reaction towards Karos and Tanal comes not only from their evident awfulness displayed on the page, but also the fact that my country suffered 17 years of civic-military dictatorship and we know guys like those two, who tortured and raped prisoners without any moral qualms. They remain part of the darkest corners of our history and a reminder of how monstruous human beings can be towards others. If you want to read more about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirección_de_Inteligencia_Nacional and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Information_Center_(Chile)
  • We are also introduced to Rautos Hivanar, the head of the Liberty Consign, which is an organization founded by Lether's elite of the elite. Rautos suspects something is wrong regarding the scarcity of coin in Lether... we know he's right. And we know he doesn't know who's behind that (yet), even though his suspicions are correct. On the other hand, he's also somewhat more interested in ancient history, archaeology, that kind of stuff. He finds some ancient artifacts in his state due to a flooding and nobody knows what they were used for. Another mystery!
  • We rejoin Bivatt (who's been promoted to Atri-Preda now) and she's conducting a campaign in the Awl'dan now, accompanied by a Tiste Edur that's Overseer of the city of Drene - I'm assuming he's there to technically balance the power of the Factor, that rules Drene in the name of the Emperor. Something like that. The scene's kinda ugly at first (ugh, scalping) but then turns uglier in a different way - a discussion of war and, especifically, how the war against the Awl is pretty much propaganda-fuel genocide. The people in Lether have been fed info that the Awl have allied with other border tribes against the Empire and are about to mount an attack on the frontiers... Bivatt knows that's absolute bullshit, the Awl are in-fighting and have had no contact whatsoever with any other tribe/kingdom. And yet she still wages that war. As Slim Charles said in The Wire: "if it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight."
  • Some returning characters are finally here! It's time for Silchas Ruin, Udinaas, Kettle, Seren Pedac *and* Fear Sengar to reappear in the narrative - and it's equal parts badass and terrifying. They're on the run, they've been captured by Edur but Silchas just fucking wrecks their captors and then Udinaas finishes the job. Also... yeah, of course they've done shit with Kettle. Of course. We've talked in earlier books about sexual violence against women in this saga and it's a very delicate subject that I don't feel comfortable pontificating about because I'm a male and (thankfully) I haven't been the victim of any sort of sexual violence. It's not my place. If people, especially women, have their issues with that sort of thing popping up every now and then in the story they have all the right to criticize. I'll listen, I'll read, and I'll make my mind up afterwards considering all that.
  • Welcome back Tehol and Bugg, nice to see you again. Well, Mael we've seen before in this book but not his Bugg persona, heh. It feels like returning to the company of some old friends. I'm worried that Tehol's going to fly too close to the sun, however, considering he's now raising suspicions from the Liberty Consign.
  • Of course Tanal rapes prisoners. Of course one of those ends up being somewhat important and not just "a rando". Of course Karos Invictad knows and only cares as much as it makes him look bad so he needs to save face. What a bunch of creeps. And of course Karos wants to investigate the Tiste Edur liaison... they're all a bunch of racist pricks in the Lether Empire, huh.
All in all, it's a quite dark opening to the book... but I'm really intrigued. It wasn't *as* confusing as I thought it'd be considering all the new names we're introduced to. It's gonna get more difficult from here on out, I'd guess 😂

Thanks for reading, see y'all soon!
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Oct 25, 2017
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just a small update since I haven't had much time to write - I finished C2 a couple of days ago! Man, that went some really dark places. Longer impressions later but I gotta say, Tanal is some incredibly despicable POS and I really want him to get his comeuppance.
 

MrHedin

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Dec 7, 2018
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95ba73a418a6175c83288c8aca01d3a8.png
 

Jisgsaw

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Oct 27, 2017
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😢

Starting the first couple of chapters of Dust of Dreams just made me remember just how much stuff happens in Reaper's Gale. Like every couple pages I was like "oh right, that happened in RG... and that too... and this"
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
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Oct 25, 2017
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Morizora's Forest
I light a candle for friends in this thread. Been a bit too busy to comment too much but I am reading when I get the chance so thanks for updating, however brief.
😢

Starting the first couple of chapters of Dust of Dreams just made me remember just how much stuff happens in Reaper's Gale. Like every couple pages I was like "oh right, that happened in RG... and that too... and this"
I get this for a lot of books in the series and sometimes it was more of "This happened... back in *searches online* Gardens?"
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Oct 25, 2017
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Here it is, as promised, a slightly more in-depth reaction to what transpired in Chapter 2...
  • The opening images are quite striking in its vastness - a city carved in the entire side of a mountain, then destroyed (nay, obliterated) by something of immense force. We learn the city is of K'chain Che'malle make and we also learn that Eleint (that is, actual Dragons) destroyed it. And they banded together to do so, which is apparently something quite unusual.
  • I like the fact that we're slowly getting dripfed information about the KCCM - they're still in the periphery in terms of how much we really know about them but it's evident they're slowly starting to become relevant to the larger plot instead of being "just" a part of the world (as in MoI, in which they're mostly used as murder machines/weapons of war) and that we're learning details of their society to better understand them as a culture.
  • The traveling party is all fun and games, huh? They're all bitchy at each other and distrustful. With some good reasons, I guess. But I did enjoy both Seren telling Silchas that his search for Bloodeye based on vengeance is "a pathetic obsession" because Scabandari has been dead for ages and he's barely more than a wraith, *and* Silchas' reply that his anger might be more complicated than what it seems. Is it though? 😂
  • I also really liked the meta-commentary (I see what you did there, Erikson) from Udinaas regarding their traveling party and Fear's expectations. "Not how the story goes, alas, but then, life isn't a story now, is it?" OH YOU.
  • Man, I fucking hate Karos Invictad and Tanal Yathvanar. It's a good (I think?) hate, in that I despise what they stand for and what they do but I think they can become compelling characters. Or, at least, be involved in a compelling narrative - of course, your mileage may vary here, since what's depicted is very much despicable and with no redeeming qualities and your tolerance for that kinda stuff might be low so, of course, if you peace out during these sections then you're totally in your right to do so.
  • "A citizen with certainty, Yathvanar, can be swayed, turned, can be made into a most diligent ally. All one needs to do is find what threatens them the most. Ignite their fear, burn to cinders the foundations of their certainty, then offer an equally certain alternate way of thinking, of seeing the world. [...] our greatest enemies are those who are without certainty. The ones with questions, the ones who regard our tidy answers with unquenchable scepticism. Those questions assail us, undermine us. They... agitate. [...] They are humbled by the ambivalence to which they are witness, and they defy our simple, comforting assertions of clarity, of a black and white world." A lot of what I despise about Karos and people like him is manifested in that screed. The abject pretension of superiority by having a supposed clarity of thought/purpose/perspective and the idea that scepticism is undesirable because it leads to agitation and undermining of authority. As I said earlier, we lived ruled by almost two decades under people like Karos Invictad - I pretty much despise everything he stands for.
  • Tanal Yathvanar remains a disgusting brute with small man syndrome. And this is coming from someone that isn't really tall, heh. I greatly enjoy Janath Anar telling him like it is even in her dire circumstances. Her calling him "little man" is a treasure. "Why is it, I wonder, that organizations such as yours are invariably run by pitiful human failures? By small-minded psychotics and perverts." Pitiful human failures is quite spot on.
  • On the other hand, I'm immediately warming up to Brohl Handar. His observations on how the Edur have started to change after the 'merger' with the Letherii and how their society has been assimilated and corrupted at the same time is just some spot-on shit in regards to how the wheel of capitalism turns and keeps on turning. One day you're hoping to subvert the system from within and break the wheel, then one day you're just a spoke in said wheel and doing what you can to keep it turning. "Not everyone could be rich -- the system would not permit such equity, for the power and privilege it offered was dependent on the very opposite. Inequity, else how can power be assessed, how can the gifts of privilege be valued? For there to be rich, there must be poor, and more of the latter than the former."
  • What an *actual* introduction to Redmask that was, huh? Seriously. Wow. It might've been a little bit too much, a tad overlong and overly graphic but... well, it certainly made an impression. And with his backstory (including the hints of mysteries with, hopefully, answers to come) we learn that it's not only his martial prowess that's what's scary about him - he's holding a major grudge with one damn good reason. And here's another not so subtle reminder that the Factor of Drene, that Letur Anict, is doing some pretty heinous shit in the name of "more!".
  • Notably, even Redmask wonders why his KCCM companions have allied themselves with him. Once again we're left to ponder what's the endgame here (I'm sensing a pattern...)
  • The chapter ends with some real effective teasing - somehow the line "[h]e doesn't want us to go into the wildlands, where all the secrets are waiting" stuck with me and I'm already thinking that we WILL go there before the series ends. I can't wait. Also the idea that the dead told Kettle "the vast wheel is about to turn, one last time, before it closes. It closes, because it has to, because that's how he made it. To tell him all he needs to know. To tell him the truth [...] Him, the one who's coming. You'll see." Has to be Icarium. Has to. He's the one that built that clock device in... Darujhistan, if I'm not mistaken? And he's going to the Lether Empire. We'll see what truth Kettle's referring to.
All in all... I'm intrigued. It's been a very dark, gloomy introduction to the book and it's not "easy reading" but not because of its density of information but, rather, its subject matter. So I can see people getting almost immediately turned off by how the book starts since it's all very dreary and brutal, for the lack of a better word. I don't mind it *as much* but I think Erikson has won my trust (most of it) with the previous books so I know it'll lead *somewhere*, even if I don't end up agreeing with how the journey develops or even where it leads. But it is going somewhere.

Thanks for reading and thanks for the patience too :D
 

flook

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Oct 28, 2017
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Reapers Gale might be the book I enjoyed most. Definitely has my favourite section of the series.
 

Jisgsaw

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Oct 27, 2017
3,480
I get this for a lot of books in the series and sometimes it was more of "This happened... back in *searches online* Gardens?"
Yeah that too, but in addition, normally books have two main narratives that intersect to variable degrees at the end.
Reaper's Gale has arguably more, even if you take them very large:
- Malazan army (I'd include all the Maiden fort / Shake stuff, and the Tiste stuff)
- The situation in the east (Red Mask; the K'Chain, and the gray swords and Toc)
- The Finnest questline
- The Letherii situation (Rhulad, Icaarium/Karsa, Tehol/Errant/etc.)
 

MrHedin

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Dec 7, 2018
6,896
Reapers Gale might be the book I enjoyed most. Definitely has my favourite section of the series.

Same. A lot of Malazan blends together for me in a way that I can't really remember what happened in which book but I clearly remember the stuff from RG because it has so many moments.
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Oct 25, 2017
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Finished Chapter 3 a few days ago! I quite enjoyed this one...
  • I really liked that Nisall's POV at the start of the chapter functioned as a coda to Midnight Tides and showed us pretty much what happened right after that book's narrative closed. We see the scenes in the Throne Room after Brys kills Rhulad and succumbs to the poison, the arrival of Hannan Mosag and Rhulad's (yet another) resurrection, feeling betrayed by both Trull and Udinaas. At this point we basically get the answer to "what did Trull do to get banished and Shorn by the Edur?" and it's... well, maybe it's not a grand answer but I feel in context works very well - Rhulad is clearly not of sound mind at the moment and Trull's reaching out is something he can't fully comprehend but also he gets insanely defensive when Trull calls out the Sword as the "true" Emperor behind Rhulad. It's a powerful scene in general, especially Trull's resignation and sacrifice, and it's quite interesting to see it from the perspective of one completely outside of the two brothers's bond and relationship. And it also works because, through her, we see yet another side of Rhulad and the tragedy inherent to the character's current predicament: essentially forced outside his will to be the figurehead of a major empire, forced to live in excruciating pain, forced to exist when he would've given up ages ago. Ironically being, formally, one of the most powerful figures in that part of the world and yet essentially powerless since it's TCG acting "through" him. The *real* Rhulad only has some slim intervals of lucidity every now and then and it's quite heartbreaking to see him trying to be a good Emperor and feel close to the people he rules over by actually taking the time to listen to their pleas only to be revealed to the reader shortly thereafter that the common folk pleading are basically actors paid off by Triban Gnol - it's all a sham. And, of course, it's heartbreaking to see Rhulad waking up in the middle of the night and reenacting his last conversation with Trull, and this time begging for forgiveness. A *great* start to the chapter.
  • We're back with Bruthen Trana, the Edur liaison that we last saw conversing with the Patriotists at the start of the book, and he's been trying to reach Rhulad to give him a report on the Patriotists. We can only assume he's not a big fan of them... especially considering we then see him go to the cemetery where all the Champions that killed Rhulad (and then were, obviously, slain in turn by him once he resurrected) rest and he wishes for Brys Beddict to return. In this series "dead" doesn't mean gone (see: Duiker, Bridgeburners, even Heboric) so it's plausible we'll see him back in the narrative in one way or another.
  • No big comments on Turudal Brizad/the Errant big scene except that it feels like a tease of things to come. He feels powerless after Rhulad assumed control of the Empire and wonders whether it's because the previous Ceda (Kuru Qan, who died being absolutely badass) somehow 'cursed' him on his dying breath or because there's some other god meddling. He plans to take control of the Cedance (the... apparatus? instrument? device? instance?) that is used to cast the Tiles, but he needs to find out its creator first. As I said... a tease of things to come.
  • Absolutely loved the Tehol plot in this chapter. Loved how Erikson essentially turned what is an RPG fetchquest into a compelling narrative (seriously, think about it: Tehol needed a specific kind of dead fish to take some roe and the spine from it, then he traded that roe for a specific root from that mud witch and the spine for a beaker in the shop that sold leaky pottery, and *then* gave both the root and the beaker to the lady that guarded the entrance to the place he wanted to go) full of character and quirky details. Seriously loved the absurd shops in Adventure Alley but also the fact that the Rat Catcher's Guild still exists in some way and not only managed to pull a major prank on the Patriotists, but that Tehol's going to help them return to prominence *and* get rid of that fucking secret police. Oh yeah baby, sign me up for that!
  • I guess this short window into Rautos means he'll probably invest in the same thing as Tehol - which means he'll get closer to the prey he's been looking for... without knowing it yet. Oh.
  • Shurq Ellale is back! And she's now a pirate that forbids swearing on her ship! That's great. This section is also a big tease but manages to fill in some blanks as to what happened after MT (Iron Bars and the Crimson Guard dropped off in Jacaruku and immediately got into battle against some army). The pirates also find an Edur ship in which there's some amphora that depicts a crucified figure surrounded by hundreds of crows - Coltaine, probably. Which begs the question - where's that from? How do they know? There's also an Edur corpse with torture signs and the fact that the logs and charts were taken from the ship makes Shurq go "NOPE, burn this shit down and pray we don't meet who did this".

All in all, a great chapter that's less overtly bleak than the previous but it's also a bit sadder and funnier at the same time. And don't even get me into the other random stuff that I didn't mention majorly (like Hannan Mosag deservedly getting demoted, or Tehol saying the Patriotists and other institutions of the same ilk are always humourless and self-serious assholes, or Ruckett's "Grand Mystery" she's investigating...)
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
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Oct 25, 2017
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One of the reasons I like the Letherii and Edur stories is because it moves away from the at this point pretty distinct Malazan military flavour. While in Malazan we follow mostly soldiers including soldiers in opposing armies here we follow a bunch of citizen, schemers, a slave here, a noble/govt agent there, an undead pirate, acquitor etc. These are all things considered very distinct from the Malazan soldier antics and humour. Even the stories with the Seven City characters or Darujhistan characters like Crockus feel morelike exceptions but with majority of the story taking place in another continent it felt truly detached from the Empire's reach so to speak.

When I think about it a bit more. SE did a pretty good job showing soldiers/warriors of different cultures. It is pretty interesting.

You're in for a treat with all the characters and stuff to come.
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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One of the reasons I like the Letherii and Edur stories is because it moves away from the at this point pretty distinct Malazan military flavour. While in Malazan we follow mostly soldiers including soldiers in opposing armies here we follow a bunch of citizen, schemers, a slave here, a noble/govt agent there, an undead pirate, acquitor etc. These are all things considered very distinct from the Malazan soldier antics and humour. Even the stories with the Seven City characters or Darujhistan characters like Crockus feel morelike exceptions but with majority of the story taking place in another continent it felt truly detached from the Empire's reach so to speak.

When I think about it a bit more. SE did a pretty good job showing soldiers/warriors of different cultures. It is pretty interesting.

You're in for a treat with all the characters and stuff to come.

Yes, you're absolutely right! It's a very noticeable shift in tone and dynamics and I'm here for it. Especially because the soldier PoV we get in here and MT feel different to the Malazan's structure *because* their cultures are so different.

Finished C4 yesterday, hopefully I'm able to write some thoughts about it soon enough
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Just a small update, since I haven't been able to progress much since finishing Chapter 4. Some ramblings about the chapter incoming...

  • I am fascinated, intrigued and appalled at the same time about Redmask. Here's a guy that's been pushed so far he has no qualms about murdering innocents for a cause he deems righteous enough - and what makes it more interesting is that the cause seems, by at least what we know so far, actually righteous. The Letherii conquest/annexation of lands is just some brazen colonial scheme by the Factor of Drene and that guy also seems unbothered by the lives he ruins in his pursuit of "more". Shades of gray all around us! And Redmask now gets some more followers after imposing upon those youths the "death night" ritual (consisting of being buried alive, if I'm getting the implications right?)
  • No, seriously, those scenes with the sheepherder kid were rough. Fucking Erikson and his manipulative ass once again, he's pretty skilled at these short perspective shifts that make you care about random people just before they're gone. And the poor kid's death is *brutal*.
  • I admit I'm getting a bit tired of the Seren/Udinaas/Silchas/Fear/Kettle group's constant bickering + Seren's "not my problem, not my problem, not my problem..." attitude. I really liked Udinaas' line about "we're all just tortured by who we are". It hits home.
  • The parallels between Silchas' attack on the Letherii fort and Redmask's attack on the camp were pretty well fucking done, especially since one ends in a very different way that one expected (and the other ends probably even worse than one imagined)
  • Anything about Silchas' talk with the K'risnan was captivating, especially Silchas' pity. Or... compassion. Gotta say, I seriously liked this line: "a god in pain is not the same as a god obsessed with evil". Seems to me like a key line for the rest of the series - what *do* we know about TCG? And how much of it is because of the followers he attracts?
  • In the same conversation we get a little tidbit about Hannan Mosag still being a shifty mfer. Of course he is still conspiring.
  • "Kechra. K'Chain Che'Malle, the Firstborn of Dragons." Oh my. New lore tidbit!
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Man, Chapter 5 is a doozy. It's not that long of a chapter but it's very dense, filled to the brim with ominous foreshadowing and some setting up the pieces in the board so we can start to gleam, more or less, where they're supposed to be headed. And even Bugg offers us a summary of the whole thing while still being vague enough so the reader can both fill in the blanks and also wonder what's he actually talking about.

Me trying to summarize the whole thing would be kind of a pointless exercise imho since I don't fully grasp the whole subtleties here but I'm more or less figuring out the "what" but still TBD on the "why".

So... Hannan Mosag is trying to free/dig up Sheltatha Lore. Then forms an alliance with Sukul Ankhadu, which is one of Sheltatha's sisters. Sukul eats humans (literally devours a hapless fellow that happened to follow her on the streets) and has diluted Edur blood in her veins. The sisters aren't on particularly friendly terms with each other as we see then a meeting between Menandore (yet another sister), Shadowthrone, Hood and The Errant in which ST agrees to 'help' Menandore with her sisters in exchange for a gate into Starvald Demelain.
Thus: WHY? Why do the sisters want to kill each other? Why does Shadowthrone want access to Starvald Demelain? Oh, I'm sure it's all RAFO, but all those things keep swirling in my head until I keep on reading the book.

This chapter really feels like a chapter in which alliances are made: not only Shadowthrone and Menandore, but also Hannan Mosag and Sukul agree to help each other with a particular problem they seem to have in common - Silchas Ruin. The albino Andii is looking for Scabandari Bloodeye and, since the erstwhile Warlock King thought that he was buried there near the Azath in Letheras it's "safe to assume" Silchas does too. Which means he'd be falling into a trap, since it's Sheltatha Lore who's buried there instead of Bloodeye - and both Hannan Mosag and Sukul want Silchas destroyed. Mosag promises TCG will help when the confrontation begins because Silchas has allies (we know them) but in exchange, he wants to use the Finnest that houses Scabandari's essence/power for its own secret purposes. Sukul Ankhadu agrees to this even though she believes treachery will be inevitable - even so, she warns Hannan Mosag that if she senses TCG escaping instead of helping them with Silchas Ruin, the sisters will snitch everything they know to the albino. Seems like a nice, easy to follow idea, huh? :P

And there's another alliance forming here, between Nisall (the First Concubine) and Bruthen Trana, who we last saw trying to convince Triban Gnol into letting him see the Emperor. This was a damn good scene, since it's clear both Bruthen and Nisall are pretty sharp people that are acutely aware of Gnol's machinations. Wonder where that will lead to.

Oh and before that, Nisall had a pretty chilling conversation with the former Queen, Janall. She's a shadow of her former self, mind twisted almost completely by the power of TCG, but... there's like hints in there of the person she used to be. To me it feels more like she's being like... possessed, or programmed, in a certain way. As in the 'actual' Janall still exists under layers and layers of insanity. In this sections there's also a very telling moment courtesy of TCG speaking through/within the former Queen, a moment that makes us reevaluate a lot of what we know regarding the pulled-down God: "I am your god. I am what you made me. You all decry my indifference, but I assure you, you would greater decry my attention. No, make no proclamations otherwise. I know what you claim to do in my name. I know your greatest fear is that I will one day call you one it - and that is the real game here, this knuckles of the soul. Watch me, mortal, watch me call you on it. Every one of you." Once again the idea of a god, a deity, being actually fashioned in the worshipper's ideal instead of the worshipper deciding to follow the deity's ideals/dogmas. And it's chilling to know the god's thinking "hey, I'm aware of the shit you do in my name. One day I'll call you on it and *you* will know. Be thankful you get my indifference for the time being" because I'm sure there'll be some incredible reckoning when that happens. So... what does TCG actually want? How different is he from what his worshippers believe he is?

Apart from that, man, there's so much in this chapter - the absolutely hard to read scene between Tanal and his prisoner Janath, who's quickly becoming one of my favorites because of both her incredibly brave resistance and just how clearly she sees Tanal and the Patriotists for what they really are. Her takedown of those pieces of shit is so damn accurate and glorious ("Delicious irony. Karos Invictad became a victim.") but it's also brutal to see what happens next when that brute lashes out at her. Of course, in a certain way, she still wins since he's so fucking SHAKEN by the idea that he might get what he deserves, whether in this life or the next. He's basically shitting his pants at the idea of justice.

And we still have the monologue from Janath that informs us that Letheras was built atop some KCCM ruins that predate both the Jaghut and the Azath... *and* that it might've been a climate change type of cataclysm that the KCCM were trying to protect themselves against. And we also get Rautos discovering yet more artifacts that can be fit into a "mechanism". Once again the idea of the past coming back to the present, never fully buried or forgotten.

I've talked a lot and it still feels I'm leaving lots of shit behind. Seriously, this chapter was dense but with a looooot of good stuff.
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
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Oct 25, 2017
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I forget that there is a lot of world building and building up of characters. Particularly some oldies who were not so active are introduced and sometimes come out to play. Then again, I suppose that through out the series we're gradually introduced to more and more ascendants and dieties. Rake, Brood, Cotillion, Envy, Gothos, Hood, Kallor, Icarium and all that. So it makes sense that we get more and more as time goes. It can feel a bit like there are lots of them but at the same time from the perspective of the world they are generally few and far apart. When two meet, it can have consequences and destruction at an incredible scale. Like, the list of names being casually crossed off back in Malaz city should be a reminder that the number of regular folk far out number these crazy power figures.
 

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
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Nov 27, 2017
10,130
This reminded me that I have the first book (maybe sequels too) through a humble bundle. Will give it a go when I'm done with Scalzi's Redshirts (which is great by the way).
 

Primal Sage

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Nov 27, 2017
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Inspired by this thread, I started reading the first book a couple of days ago. I am currently at Dajhuristan.

This is partly intriguing and very weirdly written. The world building is fascinating (which is why I keep going) but I would not call what Eriksen is doing merely a lack of handholding. It's at times huge infodumps with lack of context. People who have two names, but you have no way of knowing so you think it's different people/entities for whole chapters. Factions that need some context. Why are X fighting Y? When we are introduced to Tattersail it took a while before I was certain which side of the battle she had been on. Was I meant to be in doubt? I don't think so.

Things are starting to come into focus now but I feel like I lost a lot of dramatic impact early on due to sloppy storytelling. I love getting hints and piecing things together myself and slowly unravelling things, but that is not what is happening here. Regardless, I am intrigued and have no clue where this is going so I will continue reading. I think I have the whole series from a humble bundle on my Kindle.
 
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Altazor

Altazor

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Chile
Inspired by this thread, I started reading the first book a couple of days ago. I am currently at Dajhuristan.

This is partly intriguing and very weirdly written. The world building is fascinating (which is why I keep going) but I would not call what Eriksen is doing merely a lack of handholding. It's at times huge infodumps with lack of context. People who have two names, but you have no way of knowing so you think it's different people/entities for whole chapters. Factions that need some context. Why are X fighting Y? When we are introduced to Tattersail it took a while before I was certain which side of the battle she had been on. Was I meant to be in doubt? I don't think so.

Things are starting to come into focus now but I feel like I lost a lot of dramatic impact early on due to sloppy storytelling. I love getting hints and piecing things together myself and slowly unravelling things, but that is not what is happening here. Regardless, I am intrigued and have no clue where this is going so I will continue reading. I think I have the whole series from a humble bundle on my Kindle.

Great stuff, welcome aboard! 😁

Yeah, GOTM is such a weird little book (especially compared to the mammoth size the rest of the saga becomes) and it's kind of daunting for a newcomer because not only because Erikson's writing itself is kind of clunky at times but because he's more or less intentionally NOT handholding the reader and going "put up with it, it's gonna be worth it in the end if you trust me". If you can go back to my first posts I was constantly confused 😂

Still, even if it is somewhat rough as a first impression (especially compared to, let's say, A Game of Thrones, which feels far more polished and digestible to me) I say the journey's been worth it. You'll cry, you'll rage, you'll be intrigued and you'll want to see what happens next. Or at least I hope so!

Would love to read more of your thoughts as you keep on reading the book (and hopefully, the next ones too)

EDIT: another thing that sort of explains why GOTM is kind of weird at times as a first book is that it was partially salvaged from a script that Erikson had wanted to shop around TV (or movie studios?) and wasn't really picked up *and* also written years before the rest of the saga. Like, in terms of *when* they were written there's almost a decade between book 1 and 2 despite their release dates being sort of close. Erikson had the material that ended up becoming GOTM lying around for a loooong time before publishing.
 
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Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,194
Morizora's Forest
Inspired by this thread, I started reading the first book a couple of days ago. I am currently at Dajhuristan.

This is partly intriguing and very weirdly written. The world building is fascinating (which is why I keep going) but I would not call what Eriksen is doing merely a lack of handholding. It's at times huge infodumps with lack of context. People who have two names, but you have no way of knowing so you think it's different people/entities for whole chapters. Factions that need some context. Why are X fighting Y? When we are introduced to Tattersail it took a while before I was certain which side of the battle she had been on. Was I meant to be in doubt? I don't think so.

Things are starting to come into focus now but I feel like I lost a lot of dramatic impact early on due to sloppy storytelling. I love getting hints and piecing things together myself and slowly unravelling things, but that is not what is happening here. Regardless, I am intrigued and have no clue where this is going so I will continue reading. I think I have the whole series from a humble bundle on my Kindle.

One way to get a better understanding is to ask questions or read some community comments. There was this re-read of the entire series that was a fun ride. You can read how others interpret and react to what you just read to see their interpretation or things they have pieced together. Some might not like it though and for the most part there are no spoilers, generally if there is it is really mild and vague. In a 10 book series you won't likely remember that one very mild hint that might have been just a theory from the reader any way.

The confusion is partly a feature but I'd say that it gets a bit better. You sort of get used to it, his writing improves, you become familiar with the characters and culture of certain groups. There is still a lot of info dump but you learn to roll with not fully knowing what is going on and guessing along with some of the characters in the series who has picked up that something is going down, they just don't know exactly what. The starts are the worst as you begin with nothing and there is an entire table top game universe there. More is added over time but no matter where you start it is going to be a bit rough. There are races and creatures and history and the magic systems etc.

If you were referring to Anomander Rake when you said characters with two names I have bad news for you... He has a more than two names and more titles that are used as names on occasion. But this will kind of get easier too, there is a glossary and character list at the back of the book I think. Some terms and titles are referenced but then dropped from common usage.