Jordan Peterson - The "Intellectual" We Deserve

samoyed · May 25, 2018

That was word for word the logic that leads to nonsense like "all lives matter" as a reactionary response to "black lives matter".

"We should care about marginalized groups" does not mean "we shouldn't care about non-marginalized groups", it means "people are being marginalized so let's work to undo that marginalization".

Deleted member 22490 · May 25, 2018

ultraBOOST said:
I know I'm in the minority on this forum but I find this way of thinking to be the complete opposite of the philosophy MLK preached - judging individuals based on their character/values as opposed to their skin color/group identity

Well, MLK was also pushing for civil rights for black people. He was literally engaging in identity politics. The ideal is that each person should be treated individually, but that isn't the case. Minorities are treated worse due to the color of their skin. The trans community is treated worse due to their sexual identity. And so on.

UnpopularBlargh · May 25, 2018

Kurona said:
I would argue that you are mistaking focus for exclusion. Notice that this list does not say that male or white individuals should be excluded or prevented from being elected. The point of the tweet - as I interpret it - is to continue a long-running recognition that people of these identities do not typically get into office and are judged unfairly, as many studies have proved time and time again. Therefore, the effort - hamfisted as it arguably may be - is to simply raise recognition and argue that individuals with these identities and traits should not be prevented from being elected just because they have those identities or traits.

Yup. Identity politics isn't about exclusion. It's about signalling to the majority that many are left out of and/or behind in everyday society.

Hobbesian Thudercat · May 25, 2018

Peterson answered that AMA question just fine. I actually don't have a problem with a lot of it, if you allow the premise that Postmodernism is even a thing (I typically don't). But the notion that Postmodernism as he defines it (radical skepticism) leaves its doctors without ethic is bullshit. People can exercise radical skepticism in thought and pragmatically exercise restraint in the context of the human experience (see: Free Will).

Bramblebutt · May 25, 2018

ultraBOOST said:
Why does the skin color of the individual matter when it comes to their views on healthcare, for example?

Why indeed? It's been widely observed that different races receive different qualities of medical treatment. Certainly a perspective of a maligned group may have a valuable perspective in this?

More to the point: you cannot excise the context of that tweet. The majority of all elected representatives of the US are old white men. As representatives in a society where race and gender still matter, the vast gulf in representation is an issue that needs addressing. When we live in a society that treats its citizens equally, then we won't have to worry about the color and orientation of those we elect.

Deleted member 8561 · May 25, 2018

ultraBOOST said:
I don't like how it puts individuals into groups and gives them value based off of their group identity. I think it's a dangerous philosophy because it gives people value based on immutable characteristics.

A great example of this is this tweet by the DNC:

I really don't care what color or sexual orientation a person is, I care about what policies they are advocating for and what their values are. And notice who's missing from the list - men, asians, and whites. Should we not elect more people from these groups? Should we value a black woman's politics over a white woman's politics simply because they are black? Why does the skin color of the individual matter when it comes to their views on healthcare, for example?

I know I'm in the minority on this forum but I find this way of thinking to be the complete opposite of the philosophy MLK preached - judging individuals based on their character/values as opposed to their skin color/group identity

USER ACTIVATES MLK TRAP CARD

There are people in this country who don't ever get represented by their representatives, electing people of color and minority groups to office gives people the proper representation they deserve

samoyed · May 25, 2018

To believe in the right's "idpol" bullshit is to believe that we already live in an absolute meritocracy and that everyone who reaches the station they do in life did so through fair, purely meritocratic means and therefore any challenge to the current social balance is a challenge to the concept of meritocracy itself.

Which is absolutely bullshit. There's piles and piles of studies to cite with regards to discrimination in hiring, in wages, in health care, in incarceration, in law enforcement, and so on and so forth, and almost no evidence of true "meritocracy" other than gut feelings from a privileged group.

excelsiorlef · May 25, 2018

ultraBOOST said:
Love Jordan Peterson. He's probably the best defender against the identity politics of the left than anyone else. He's fantastic.

And the empty meaningless platitude cycle begins anew...

kadotsu · May 25, 2018

Are you guys really arguing with a 50 post stan?

Deleted member 8561 · May 25, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
And the empty meaningless platitude cycle begins anew...

Ohhhh that explains the thing I quoted

Bramblebutt · May 25, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
And the empty meaningless platitude cycle begins anew...

"The Tree of the Peterson Thread must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of young conservatives." -Derrida, probably

EdibleKnife · May 25, 2018

kadotsu said:
Are you guys really arguing with a 50 post stan?

Sadly they're not the only people on this forum who think that same way. Our responses aren't just for ultra but for a lot of lurkers who need to hear the same things

Deleted member 22490 · May 25, 2018

EdibleKnife said:
Sadly they're not the only people on this forum who think that same way. Our responses aren't just for ultra but for a lot of lurkers who need to hear the same things

What's funny is that we've had the same argument many, many times already in this thread and they always hit the same beats, although MLK got trotted out pretty fast.

BernardoOne · May 25, 2018

i always find hilarious the brainless morons that think Peterson is great for "sticking it to identity politics"

the dude does literally nothing but spew identity politics literally every day. Even his supposed "self help" book is full of it. You have to be a special kind of stupid to miss it.

Suiko · May 25, 2018

BernardoOne said:
i always find hilarious the brainless morons that think Peterson is great for "sticking it to identity politics"

the dude does literally nothing but spew identity politics literally every day. Even his supposed "self help" book is full of it. You have to be a special kind of stupid to miss it.

Yes, but you see, it's identity politics they agree with, and not identity politics that they disagree with or the kind that makes them uncomfortable.

Deleted member 22490 · May 25, 2018

Yeah telling that men fail more and that there aren't that many men in the humanities is identity politics. Peterson just don't like minorities disturbing the "natural order of things"

ry-dog · May 25, 2018

Holy shit, Reddit turning on Peterson was glorious. When you're too conservative for even Reddit

Deleted member 22490 · May 25, 2018

Lol I was wondering why it was taking so long for Ultra to post a response and didn't see that he got banned.

Kurona said:
Oh boy are we posting from Peterson's AMA now? Because I'm so glad I get first dibs on this gem

Wait... how can atheism be the cause of the Holocaust if atheists don't exist?

Veggen · May 25, 2018

samoyed said:
To believe in the right's "idpol" bullshit is to believe that we already live in an absolute meritocracy and that everyone who reaches the station they do in life did so through fair, purely meritocratic means and therefore any challenge to the current social balance is a challenge to the concept of meritocracy itself.

"Idpol is challenging our meritocracy so we had no choice but to elect Trump." The right's conservative mindset instigated this panicked accelerationism, exposing their naked inconsistencies by electing a meritless child-man to represent them.

gfxtwin · May 25, 2018

It's obvious to anyone who knows what basic critical thinking is that his shtick is dogwhistling the disenfranchised white male, but what's his end game? Book sales? Fame? Is there gonna be a point to it other than increasing the amount of knuckledragging toxic dudebros that there already are? What good is it doing putting that shit (packaging toxic ideals in the most smart-sounding and persuasive way possible) out into the world?

Superking · May 25, 2018

Helio said:
Lol I was wondering why it was taking so long for Ultra to post a response and didn't see that he got banned.

Wait... how can atheism be the cause of the Holocaust if atheists don't exist?

No, you see, NON-genocidal atheists don't exist. The other kinds (like Hitler and probably Ghengis Khan) definitely do.

Deleted member 22490 · May 25, 2018

gfxtwin said:
It's obvious to anyone who knows what basic critical thinking is that his shtick is dogwhistling the disenfranchised white male, but what's his end game? What good is it doing putting that shit (packaging toxic ideals in the most smart-sounding and persuasive way possible) out into the world?

He was given a mission to save the world from nuclear war from his and his wife's dreams.

Oblivion said:
No, you see, NON-genocidal atheists don't exist. The other kinds (like Hitler and probably Ghengis Khan) definitely do.

Damn. Foiled by that wily Peterson again!

Kurona · May 25, 2018

gfxtwin said:
It's obvious to anyone who knows what basic critical thinking is that his shtick is dogwhistling the disenfranchised white male, but what's his end game? What good is it doing putting that shit (packaging toxic ideals in the most smart-sounding and persuasive way possible) out into the world?

To be completely cynical? The dude's making a lot of money off of it.

Sub Boss · May 25, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
And couldn't remember the name of his most admirable woman... the interviewer had to tell him it was Florence Nightingale lol

Dude Abides said:
A woman famous for caring for men in a quasi-motherly fashion. Shocker.

not to criticize this good woman, but given the context this part stood out to me on wikipedia

"Although much of Nightingale's work improved the lot of women everywhere, Nightingale was of the opinion that women craved sympathy and were not as capable as men. She criticised early women's rights activists for decrying an alleged lack of careers for women at the same time that lucrative medical positions, under the supervision of Nightingale and others, went perpetually unfilled. She preferred the friendship of powerful men, insisting they had done more than women to help her attain her goals, writing: "I have never found one woman who has altered her life by one iota for me or my opinions." She often referred to herself in the masculine, as for example "a man of action" and "a man of business".

'Some scholars of Nightingale's life believe that she remained chaste for her entire life, perhaps because she felt a religious calling to her career.'

gfxtwin · May 25, 2018

Helio said:
He was given a mission to save the world from nuclear war from his and his wife's dreams.

We already know that. But maybe there's something we missed. This should help us keep up with the here and now: http://harddawn.com/

Kurona · May 25, 2018

Sub Boss said:
not to criticize this good woman, but given the context this part stood out to me on wikipedia

"Although much of Nightingale's work improved the lot of women everywhere, Nightingale was of the opinion that women craved sympathy and were not as capable as men. She criticised early women's rights activists for decrying an alleged lack of careers for women at the same time that lucrative medical positions, under the supervision of Nightingale and others, went perpetually unfilled. She preferred the friendship of powerful men, insisting they had done more than women to help her attain her goals, writing: "I have never found one woman who has altered her life by one iota for me or my opinions." She often referred to herself in the masculine, as for example "a man of action" and "a man of business".

'Some scholars of Nightingale's life believe that she remained chaste for her entire life, perhaps because she felt a religious calling to her career.'

Bloody hell. I shouldn't be too surprised; this was early days and it's a trend you still see with women today. But yikes.

Panic Freak · May 25, 2018

Oblivion said:
Peterson is asked who his favorite feminist is:

https://www.facebook.com/TheEconomist/videos/10156589173744060/

You could step away, make a sandwich and come back during those pauses.

I knew that Anne McElvoy would destroy his credibility. She isn't smart as a tack. He is a subject way beneath her.

samoyed · May 25, 2018

gfxtwin said:
It's obvious to anyone who knows what basic critical thinking is that his shtick is dogwhistling the disenfranchised white male, but what's his end game? Book sales? Fame? Is there gonna be a point to it other than increasing the amount of knuckledragging toxic dudebros that there already are?

The comparisons to L Ron Hubbard are apt. We might be witnessing the birth of our generation's Scientology.

excelsiorlef · May 25, 2018

Sub Boss said:
not to criticize this good woman, but given the context this part stood out to me on wikipedia

"Although much of Nightingale's work improved the lot of women everywhere, Nightingale was of the opinion that women craved sympathy and were not as capable as men. She criticised early women's rights activists for decrying an alleged lack of careers for women at the same time that lucrative medical positions, under the supervision of Nightingale and others, went perpetually unfilled. She preferred the friendship of powerful men, insisting they had done more than women to help her attain her goals, writing: "I have never found one woman who has altered her life by one iota for me or my opinions." She often referred to herself in the masculine, as for example "a man of action" and "a man of business".

'Some scholars of Nightingale's life believe that she remained chaste for her entire life, perhaps because she felt a religious calling to her career.'

And he still couldn't remember her name.

Sub Boss · May 25, 2018

Helio said:
I Was Jordan Peterson's Strongest Supporter. Now I Think He's Dangerous

I got shivers reading this one, this is a powerful psychological article: prophetic dreams, a lost friendship, social revolution, natural order, churches, mob mentality, enforced monogamy, hypocrisy ,fear from the war...

sph3re · May 25, 2018

Helio said:
I Was Jordan Peterson's Strongest Supporter. Now I Think He's Dangerous

This is... so sad. I feel for the author, seeing someone he was so close to just decay into something unrecognisable. I would have loved to have seen this idyllic Jordan Peterson they once knew.

Now all we have are fucking lobsters.

Hobbesian Thudercat · May 25, 2018

*edit*

Fuck it.

NoName999 · May 25, 2018

Hobbesian Thudercat said:
Holy shit, I can't believe that guy got banned.

Yeah it's like he spouted bullshit that diversity is promoting white exclusion while using the whitewashed version of MLK or something.

Hobbesian Thudercat · May 25, 2018

*edit*

You know what? Fuck it.

excelsiorlef · May 25, 2018

Hobbesian Thudercat said:
*edit*

You know what? Fuck it.

Monogamously I hope

Deleted member 8561 · May 25, 2018

What about some foreplay before you fuck it

NoName999 · May 25, 2018

Hobbesian Thudercat said:
*edit*

You know what? Fuck it.

No no.

What were you gonna say? I'm curious now.

Deleted member 22490 · May 25, 2018

Hobbesian Thudercat said:
*edit*

Fuck it.

Hobbesian Thudercat said:
*edit*

You know what? Fuck it.

Two different posts saying fuck it? Women cause men to fail and casual sex will lead to state tyranny, bucko. Unless you want the murderous doctrine of the left to prevail, then you must not tell others to fornicate with two different things. I mean it's terrible! Men are being told that they are the denizens of tyranny and product of the patriarchy! They arent in the humanities as much anymore, allowing the post modern Marxists to seize control. What we are doing to men is a travesty and immensely horrible we should be helping these men!

But first, let me complain about identity politics.

samoyed · May 25, 2018

He's either insane and dangerous or deliberate and dangerous. He's studied and critiqued the source of demagogic power, then turned around to tap into that source for his own benefit. It seems psychopathic.

Deleted member 25709 · May 25, 2018

Helio said:
I Was Jordan Peterson's Strongest Supporter. Now I Think He's Dangerous

Thanks for this, it was a good read.

Sub Boss · May 26, 2018

gfxtwin said:
It's obvious to anyone who knows what basic critical thinking is that his shtick is dogwhistling the disenfranchised white male, but what's his end game? Book sales? Fame? Is there gonna be a point to it other than increasing the amount of knuckledragging toxic dudebros that there already are? What good is it doing putting that shit (packaging toxic ideals in the most smart-sounding and persuasive way possible) out into the world?

He thinks he is saving the world (not kidding) from nuclear war, based on dreams.

Actually it would be an interesting origin story for a villain in some thriller/horror movie

Deleted member 22490 · May 26, 2018

Jordan Peterson is Ozymandias from Watchmen.

Jordan Peterson: On a Mission Given by His Wife's Dream to Stop Nuclear War

danm999 · May 26, 2018

Jordan Peterson destroys the entitled purveyors of identity politics when he talks about [checks notes] the needs of the incel movement.

EdibleKnife · May 26, 2018

danm999 said:
Jordan Peterson destroys the entitled purveyors of identity politics when he talks about [checks notes] the needs of the incel movement.

Right? "Fuck identity politics....but also lonely, horny white men deserve being fucked on the reg to stop them from killing."

Addi · May 26, 2018

samoyed said:
He's either insane and dangerous or deliberate and dangerous. He's studied and critiqued the source of demagogic power, then turned around to tap into that source for his own benefit. It seems psychopathic.

I watched a video from Peterson's class a long time ago. He was talking about personality and finding your own voice, that a lot of people just repeat things they have heard elsewhere and
become ideological zombies. That's like, exactly what his supporters are doing. Even worse, they are not paraphrasing him or anything (they obviously don't understand him completely) and point you to 3 hour videos as an argument. Talk about intellectual submission.

excelsiorlef · May 26, 2018

Oops turns out when you dig through his past you get some pretty clear views on women:

"If choosiness wasn't there rape would be unnecessary"

ry-dog · May 26, 2018

Omg that ama is the gift that keeps on giving.

Turns out Jordan Peterson was using Amazon Affiliate links in his answers

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfRe...iously_amas_are_promotional_vehicles_but_how/

DorkLord54 · May 26, 2018

Helio said:
Jordan Peterson is Ozymandias from Watchmen.

Jordan Peterson: On a Mission Given by His Wife's Dream to Stop Nuclear War

At least Ozy was responding to a real chance that Tricky Dick and Gorbachev might wipe each other off the face of the Earth, and is sceptical of whether the deaths he caused were worth it. Peterson is basing everything he does off of bogeymen, and either is oblivious to the harm he might be causing or doesn't care.

SixPointEight · May 26, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Oops turns out when you dig through his past you get some pretty clear views on women:

"If choosiness wasn't there rape would be unnecessary"

Interesting choice of words.

hexanaut · May 26, 2018

I see Dave Rubin made an account here.

Wow, reading the article from a former colleague. Peterson at one point got into "shamanic healing practices, where, to my great surprise and distress, he chose to be the shaman himself." lol

Kurona said:
To be completely cynical? The dude's making a lot of money off of it.

Yeah the end game is to continue grifting and being talked about.

Jordan Peterson - The "Intellectual" We Deserve

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