Kind of amazing that any PR person would let him sit down for this, but then we have the Prince Andrew interview last year that shows that yes, these people really are that delusional.
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Joss Whedon Criticizes Justice League Cast & Reshoot Behavior
- Thread starter BlackGoku03
- Start date
Kind of amazing that any PR person would let him sit down for this, but then we have the Prince Andrew interview last year that shows that yes, these people really are that delusional.
I think it was Jonah Ray who told a story about pretending to make an anti-feminist remark---completely as a joke---to Whedon once. Whedon acted super offended and got all sanctimonious about it, and tried to publicly shame Jonah for being a misogynist. Unbelievable how completely full of shit he is.
???
I have no idea how you have come to such a bizarre conclusion.
Well, yeah. That doesn't mean there aren't still fans out there that will try to defend him by inventing conspiracy theories or deflecting by attacking someone else.
Sure there are. But I fail to see what your larger point is? It's like you want to label previous fans of Whedon as extra awful or something because he still has some fans out there doing defense for him, but like, of course he does? As I said in that post, same can be said with fans of other awful people.
No matter what the man does, he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue if you will, there will be stans out there. Remember, "fans" is short for fanatic. They will write their own narrative to keep liking the guy because it's an obsession.
Someone posted "Honestly don't know what you are talking about with this" in response to someone else saying "There were Whedon zealots/Buffy fans on this very forum who twisted themselves into pretzels defending Joss when Fisher and the others started coming forward." I replied with an example.
Here's your problem:
If you are going to respond to my posts then respond to what I've actually written, not what you've imagined I think or feel.
i mean its really not. I didnt say he was bad either. So its pretty fair. Its pretty silly saying an opinion is unfair.
SMG and David Boreanaz came out in support in the comments too. Amazing how long we felt that his cats supported him and they had this fantastic relationship just to see how much resentment they had for him but were afraid to speak out on.
The biggest thing that sticks out to me is that Whedon didn't originate anyone in the entire movie. Iron Man 1 kicked off the MCU spectacularly, Cap 1 was massively underrated, and Thor 1 was "fine" but it introduced possibly the best villain in the MCU. Basically everything about Avengers was already introduced successfully in Phase 1. Whedon's job (planned by Feige from day-1) was to watch five movies, understand the characters in those movies, and then make a sequel that puts all of those characters on the same page. Whedon did just that, and he did it well, but I think that should be the bare minimum for competence in writing/directing (and yeah, I know that Hollywood often fails to meet that bar, and that helming a $200 million project is never "simple").
The studio told Whedon to use Loki as the villain, because Loki was their best villain, and I think it's telling that the "Loki" TV show needed to stretch to try and explain why Avengers 1 Loki was the most out-of-character version of that character that we've ever seen. It's because Whedon was merely competent, not a genius.
Whedon's writing has style and personality and humor, but I think his directing is standard and basic. Not that there's anything wrong with standard and basic. That's kind of the best way to not fuck something up, and I think "not fucking up" was Whedon's biggest contribution to Avengers 1. But I don't think that Whedon is the only writer who has style and personality and humor, and his writing wasn't the secret ingredient that made Avengers successful (it was a positive, definitely, if the movie's been decided by the studio to be derivative, it might as well have good prose). The secret ingredient was the novelty of Feige's approach to a shared universe, which was something that audiences had never seen before (not since Frankenstein meets the Wolfman).
After Avengers, we had Iron Man 3 which was very Iron Man and saw a mixed reception to their Mandarin twist, and Winter Soldier, which was a cool and stylish spy thriller, and the Russos owed very little to Whedon's version of Cap, aside from a lame costume which they tossed in the trash. And Guardians of the Galaxy, which is all just James Gunn being James Gunn. And then Whedon comes back with his Avengers 2, which can't compare to these high-level movies made by better artists.
And for quite some time, I've been seeing people roll their eyes when the MCU resorts to "Whedon jokes", because while they were fresh in Avengers 1, they're old and played out in just about everything after. Marvel's imitators fail when they ignore Feige's series plotting, and they fail when they think that Whedon can deliver another Avengers 1 with his jokes. Meanwhile Marvel cruises along and reaches new heights without Whedon.
you're really making it seem like Avengers 1 could have been done by anyone and really oversimplifying the work on that movie. Whedon is a piece of shit, but he did capture lightning in a bottle with that one movie. Like, trying to act like that aint true because hes a piece of shit isnt accurate imo.
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Thing is, I don't think he IS full of shit. If he was, that interview would have gone a great deal better. I think he is perfectly honest and open about what he believes. An insincere mea culpa would have gone a long way further in rehabbing his image than "i might have accidentally drowned a kid, and zack snyder took time out of his busy child burying schedule to brainwash my actors against me."
The issue is that he emotionally peaked in his late teens, got golden boy status super early on in life, believed the hype and as a result is totally delusional and incapable of introspection. It's not a grift. It's a fundamental disconnect with reality and inability to grow past who he was in the 90s. He can't work on the problems because he doesn't see that they are there.
He's the hero, and this is his darkest hour before his inevitable comeback and triumph. That he was the bad guy is several stories is not something he can fathom.
Which makes the whole thing that much sadder because it means there's a version of him out there who is capable of becoming the person people thought he was, and we got stuck with this one.
I'm really not trying to take anything that was truly earned away from Whedon, nor to kick him just because he's down.
I'm saying that Whedon is overrated when people give him (or he takes) credit for the groundbreaking nature of Avengers 1, because I do not think he's really responsible for the "groundbreaking" part of that movie. I think that part came from the cold, cynical, studio machine that asked him to pen their "crossover" idea. Or Kevin Feige, if you'd rather put a friendlier face on it.
I think that anyone with writing talent and Hollywood experience could've done what Whedon did (hey, remember that time Magnum P.I. appeared on Murder She Wrote?), and while that seems dismissive (and yeah, it kinda is), that does disqualify a lot of the people making movies today, so it's not that much of an insult. Whedon is a talented writer.
eh, Avengers wasnt good JUST BECAUSE it was a crossover of different heros. Like, obviously that was an interesting draw but thats not what makes it a good film. I honestly dont think you can give that to anyone and it be as great as it is. just being fair to that film in particular. I mean look at Xmen apocolaypse coming off of Days of Future Past which was actually good....see how that got Bungled? Avengers in particular is what kinda started to make me believe that the MCU could be something special, not iron man, not thor, not cap....the execution of that movie made me say "oh shit, this might be something great." Prior to that, I was thinking MCU was going to have an Xmen trajectory. Don't get me wrong. I never really was a "Whedon Fan" and based on all the stuff that has happened, I think he sucks. But I still think he did a great job with Avengers 1. and in retrospect after hearing everything about him, its kinda shocking to me he made that. still Fuck him tho
Also, hindsight is always 20/20. Its easy to look back and be like "Well yea, this is why and thats why" when before it came out we didn't know it was going to be THAT good.
I mean with the Prince Andrew interview, his PR person literally told him not to do it.
I feel the same way. Never was a Whedon fan, but I still think Avengers 1 is the best Marvel film (except for maybe Endgame). A lot of people who really liked the film who knew nothing about the characters beforehand did so in large part because of its humor, which you can't say is something Whedon's writing didn't play a big part in.
The fact that SMG and Boreanaz are speaking out against Whedon now tells me things might have been even worse than what has already been leaked. Whedon is starting to remind me of Evilore, the dude everyone hates but is forced to put up with because he's in charge...
I think you're giving this guy a bit too much credit.
Besides, the best MCU villain is the OG - Obadiah Stane.
Joss Whedon Denies Racism Charges by Saying Black Man Is Just a White Man’s Pawn
It's an unsurprising development given the way Whedon has depicted—or not—people of color during his long career.
www.vice.com
Joss Whedon can't help but tell on himself
A new interview reveals — at times via Whedon’s own words — just how terrible the once-beloved filmmaker was.
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I questioned the same passage here. Saying she suggested this may have been incorrect but why did she even mention it? What was the point?
I don't get it. The only way this interview can exist is if Joss Whedon is trying to consciously make a case for himself as one of the dumbest white men in America right now. How can someone be this stupid and self-absorbed? Does he not have any friends who would have warned him?!
Right. By mentioning it, they're introducing the idea and planting the seed of doubt for those who are susceptible.
I'm glad those affected by it have explicitly called out why the lack of not openly debunking some of the theories it quotes is problematic.
Finally had time to read the whole thing. There's a moment at the start where it seems Joss Whedon might be trying to understand his behaviour, going back to how his childhood might have influenced him...
But then (even ignoring all the other stories) he ends with "No, actually I'm pretty nice and it's the actors who were rude", and still doesn't apologize for anything.... Wow
And him saying he identifies with Topher in Dollhouse is pretty illuminating. Like yeah, he's a nerd who's never grown up and has snappy dialogue, it was clear he was partly a self-insert of Whedon. But he's also amoral and manipulating the whole time, and if he also identifies with those parts, that's... not a great look
As to Dollhouse in general... I never agreed with people calling the whole concept of the show sexist because of the dolls, ultimately it's still a story about empowerment and finding youself. But now I hear Whedon actually had a sexual sub/dom thing going on with a partner based on the dolls? Like, TMI, but also what the fuck?
But then (even ignoring all the other stories) he ends with "No, actually I'm pretty nice and it's the actors who were rude", and still doesn't apologize for anything.... Wow
And him saying he identifies with Topher in Dollhouse is pretty illuminating. Like yeah, he's a nerd who's never grown up and has snappy dialogue, it was clear he was partly a self-insert of Whedon. But he's also amoral and manipulating the whole time, and if he also identifies with those parts, that's... not a great look
As to Dollhouse in general... I never agreed with people calling the whole concept of the show sexist because of the dolls, ultimately it's still a story about empowerment and finding youself. But now I hear Whedon actually had a sexual sub/dom thing going on with a partner based on the dolls? Like, TMI, but also what the fuck?