Kind of amazing that any PR person would let him sit down for this, but then we have the Prince Andrew interview last year that shows that yes, these people really are that delusional.
It seems like you are mad people were ever fans of his in the first place which is a rather silly take to have just because you never were.
Sure there are. But I fail to see what your larger point is? It's like you want to label previous fans of Whedon as extra awful or something because he still has some fans out there doing defense for him, but like, of course he does? As I said in that post, same can be said with fans of other awful people.???
I have no idea how you have come to such a bizarre conclusion.
Well, yeah. That doesn't mean there aren't still fans out there that will try to defend him by inventing conspiracy theories or deflecting by attacking someone else.
Sure there are. But I fail to see what your larger point is? It's like you want to label previous fans of Whedon as extra awful or something because he still has some fans out there doing defense for him, but like, of course he does? As I said in that post, same can be said with fans of other awful people.
You said he wasn't a good actor from watching one role. That's just silly and unfair.
Whedon is a scumbag but his brand of approachable nerd humor and writing is all over the MCU. Look at Iron Man 2 then look at everything after Avengers 1. There are shades of it all the way back in Buffy dialogue.
So yeah whether or not he's there they owe a lot to him and it would take a a line-wide shift to make them more, I don't know, straight-laced(?) comic book movies.
Let me reiterate that he is a scumbag but he made Avengers work and Justice League was almost a failure from the start with Snyder's massive arc planned that would never see the light of day.
The biggest thing that sticks out to me is that Whedon didn't originate anyone in the entire movie. Iron Man 1 kicked off the MCU spectacularly, Cap 1 was massively underrated, and Thor 1 was "fine" but it introduced possibly the best villain in the MCU. Basically everything about Avengers was already introduced successfully in Phase 1. Whedon's job (planned by Feige from day-1) was to watch five movies, understand the characters in those movies, and then make a sequel that puts all of those characters on the same page. Whedon did just that, and he did it well, but I think that should be the bare minimum for competence in writing/directing (and yeah, I know that Hollywood often fails to meet that bar, and that helming a $200 million project is never "simple").Avenger could have gone wrong in many ways, I'd absolutely say it would have been hard for anyone else to pull off and a lot of the stuff he set up, including I believe Thanos which was his decision for the stinger set the tone of the MCU. Even the quips, and Black Window being a fan favorite started with him.
Avengers 1 is the blueprint and outside of Iron Man 1, nothing in the MCU really did well or had built a fanbase until that movie. He's probably still making bank off of it.
The biggest thing that sticks out to me is that Whedon didn't originate anyone in the entire movie. Iron Man 1 kicked off the MCU spectacularly, Cap 1 was massively underrated, and Thor 1 was "fine" but it introduced possibly the best villain in the MCU. Basically everything about Avengers was already introduced successfully in Phase 1. Whedon's job (planned by Feige from day-1) was to watch five movies, understand the characters in those movies, and then make a sequel that puts all of those characters on the same page. Whedon did just that, and he did it well, but I think that should be the bare minimum for competence in writing/directing (and yeah, I know that Hollywood often fails to meet that bar, and that helming a $200 million project is never "simple").
The studio told Whedon to use Loki as the villain, because Loki was their best villain, and I think it's telling that the "Loki" TV show needed to stretch to try and explain why Avengers 1 Loki was the most out-of-character version of that character that we've ever seen. It's because Whedon was merely competent, not a genius.
Whedon's writing has style and personality and humor, but I think his directing is standard and basic. Not that there's anything wrong with standard and basic. That's kind of the best way to not fuck something up, and I think "not fucking up" was Whedon's biggest contribution to Avengers 1. But I don't think that Whedon is the only writer who has style and personality and humor, and his writing wasn't the secret ingredient that made Avengers successful (it was a positive, definitely, if the movie's been decided by the studio to be derivative, it might as well have good prose). The secret ingredient was the novelty of Feige's approach to a shared universe, which was something that audiences had never seen before (not since Frankenstein meets the Wolfman).
After Avengers, we had Iron Man 3 which was very Iron Man and saw a mixed reception to their Mandarin twist, and Winter Soldier, which was a cool and stylish spy thriller, and the Russos owed very little to Whedon's version of Cap, aside from a lame costume which they tossed in the trash. And Guardians of the Galaxy, which is all just James Gunn being James Gunn. And then Whedon comes back with his Avengers 2, which can't compare to these high-level movies made by better artists.
And for quite some time, I've been seeing people roll their eyes when the MCU resorts to "Whedon jokes", because while they were fresh in Avengers 1, they're old and played out in just about everything after. Marvel's imitators fail when they ignore Feige's series plotting, and they fail when they think that Whedon can deliver another Avengers 1 with his jokes. Meanwhile Marvel cruises along and reaches new heights without Whedon.
Charisma posted a couple things to insta about this, referencing the outrageous comment about Gadot and also showing her support for Ray.
I think it was Jonah Ray who told a story about pretending to make an anti-feminist remark---completely as a joke---to Whedon once. Whedon acted super offended and got all sanctimonious about it, and tried to publicly shame Jonah for being a misogynist. Unbelievable how completely full of shit he is.
I'm really not trying to take anything that was truly earned away from Whedon, nor to kick him just because he's down.you're really making it seem like Avengers 1 could have been done by anyone and really oversimplifying the work on that movie. Whedon is a piece of shit, but he did capture lightning in a bottle with that one movie. Like, trying to act like that aint true because hes a piece of shit isnt accurate imo.
I'm really not trying to take anything that was truly earned away from Whedon, nor to kick him just because he's down.
I'm saying that Whedon is overrated when people give him (or he takes) credit for the groundbreaking nature of Avengers 1, because I do not think he's really responsible for the "groundbreaking" part of that movie. I think that part came from the cold, cynical, studio machine that asked him to pen their "crossover" idea. Or Kevin Feige, if you'd rather put a friendlier face on it.
I think that anyone with writing talent and Hollywood experience could've done what Whedon did (hey, remember that time Magnum P.I. appeared on Murder She Wrote?), and while that seems dismissive (and yeah, it kinda is), that does disqualify a lot of the people making movies today, so it's not that much of an insult. Whedon is a talented writer.
Kind of amazing that any PR person would let him sit down for this, but then we have the Prince Andrew interview last year that shows that yes, these people really are that delusional.
I feel the same way. Never was a Whedon fan, but I still think Avengers 1 is the best Marvel film (except for maybe Endgame). A lot of people who really liked the film who knew nothing about the characters beforehand did so in large part because of its humor, which you can't say is something Whedon's writing didn't play a big part in.eh, Avengers wasnt good JUST BECAUSE it was a crossover of different heros. Like, obviously that was an interesting draw but thats not what makes it a good film. I honestly dont think you can give that to anyone and it be as great as it is. just being fair to that film in particular. I mean look at Xmen apocolaypse coming off of Days of Future Past which was actually good....see how that got Bungled? Avengers in particular is what kinda started to make me believe that the MCU could be something special, not iron man, not thor, not cap....the execution of that movie made me say "oh shit, this might be something great." Prior to that, I was thinking MCU was going to have an Xmen trajectory. Don't get me wrong. I never really was a "Whedon Fan" and based on all the stuff that has happened, I think he sucks. But I still think he did a great job with Avengers 1. and in retrospect after hearing everything about him, its kinda shocking to me he made that. still Fuck him tho
Also, hindsight is always 20/20. Its easy to look back and be like "Well yea, this is why and thats why" when before it came out we didn't know it was going to be THAT good.
The fact that SMG and Boreanaz are speaking out against Whedon now tells me things might have been even worse than what has already been leaked. Whedon is starting to remind me of Evilore, the dude everyone hates but is forced to put up with because he's in charge...
Thor 1 was "fine" but it introduced possibly the best villain in the MCU.
What's especially egregious is the way he talks about Fisher, who said that Whedon's treatment of him on the set of Justice League was not just abusive but also racist. Whedon said that Fisher can't possibly really believe that, and implied, as unnamed sources close to him outright told reporter Lila Shapiro, that Fisher must be being manipulated by the original director of Justice League, Zack Snyder.
"People like Joss offset their trauma on other people in exchange for their energy, and take their energy to keep going — to keep themselves alive, almost," a television writer who was 23 when she began a relationship with the then-49-year old Whedon said. "That's why he's so good at the vampire narrative."
Oh noIt's funny that this is the 10-year anniversary of Avengers, which will have no shortage of articles looking back at that specific legacy, but in-turn will mean bringing up Whedon with all the stink his name now imbues.
Right. By mentioning it, they're introducing the idea and planting the seed of doubt for those who are susceptible.I questioned the same passage here. Saying she suggested this may have been incorrect but why did she even mention it? What was the point?
I'm glad those affected by it have explicitly called out why the lack of not openly debunking some of the theories it quotes is problematic.Right. By mentioning it, they're introducing the idea and planting the seed of doubt for those who are susceptible.