Kingdom Come: Deliverance - The Good, the Bad and the Sneaky

[Lunaray]

Wow, I backed this game almost 4 years ago now. I backed it because I was intrigued by the prospect of another non-fantasy medieval game that wasn't Mount and Blade. Truth to be told, I was not (and am not) expecting this game to actually be very fun to play, and Daniel Vavra's gamergater sympathies have made me consider requesting a refund many a times.

The game looks fairly competently made, though my experience with the beta is that it's filled with jank. It looks great, but I suspect the push towards more and more realism in it's gameplay will detract from the actual fun of the gaming experience. In the beta, I did not enjoy having to scrounge around for food and a place to sleep every so often. I'm sure mods will fix a lot of the issues I have post-release.

 

[Stiler]

not a fan of first-person melee. tell me i can get through the game with a bow (skyrim) & i might get interested :) ...

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The game has many weapons, bows are one of them so yes.

 

[Mister X]

My most hyped game for in 2018.

Spoiler

with RDR2

 

[Molemitts]

Keeping my eye on this game it looks interesting.

 

[semiconscious]

The game has many weapons, bows are one of them so yes.

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there're games with bows, & there're games with bows. some you can actually main a bow, while, in others, they're pretty much secondary weapons. this's what i was asking: can i main a bow in this game? do you know? :) ...

 

[Paul]

there're games with bows, & there're games with bows. some you can actually main a bow, while, in others, they're pretty much secondary weapons. this's what i was asking: can i main a bow in this game? do you know? :) ...

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From what the devs said you should be able to focus on a bow if you want. You increase your skills by doing, so if you keep using bow you will get better and better with it.
The game can also be played almost nonviolently - apparently there is only one single character you have to kill during the course of the story.

 

[Terror-Billy]

Uh huh.

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Oh well. I'll get it from the bargain bin then. What a shame because it looks good.

 

[DaciaJC]

The sequel is gonna be a Game of the Generation contender. I smell a new Witcher in the making.

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That reminds me, I wonder if Warhorse are still intending on releasing sequels in the form of "Act II" and such in the future, or did they drop that idea?

Uh huh.

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The man is clearly a skilled game designer and director. Him poking fun at labels (at least, that's how I see that picture) doesn't detract from that.

 

[dex3108]

Dan Vavra is great game designer and i am still sad that we never got his true vision of Mafia 2.

 

[Deleted member 2083]

Okay, I'm in.

 

[Paul]

From the same preview event, interview with dev with some new footage (unfortunately in quite low bitrate and framerate)

 

[Messofanego]

The man is clearly a skilled game designer and director. Him poking fun at labels (at least, that's how I see that picture) doesn't detract from that.

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The game isn't out yet, so we don't know if his political ideology detracts from that.
He's not making fun of labels, he's proudly showing off his far right labels of being against representation, social justice, and diversity.
He was one of the biggest gamergate supporters and would often go about a persecution complex that he's a misogynist.

 

[More_Badass]

Seriously, again? I got bad luck with anticipated games and their creators being Gamergate assholes. This is disappointing to learn

 

[Alice_from_wonderland]

The game isn't out yet, so we don't know if his political ideology detracts from that.
He's not making fun of labels, he's proudly showing off his far right labels of being against representation, social justice, and diversity.
He was one of the biggest gamergate supporters and would often go about a persecution complex that he's a misogynist.

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He absolutely was making fun of the people who use those labels to insult gamers. And this:

"he's proudly showing off his far right labels of being against representation, social justice, and diversity." is complete misrepresentation. He is not against any of those things.
Do you know why he was against social justice activists in that exchange? Because he got accused by them of being racist for not putting nonwhite people into his game about medieval bohemia that takes place in 16km2, in a country that is even today mostly white, and of being sexist for not making playable protagonist a woman.
He is making a game about his own country, its history and culture, first such realistic RPG of its kind, and he gets accused of racism for it. Would that not anger you? If, say, someone from China makes a game about chinese history and does not put african people in it, would you call him racist?

 

[Derrick01]

Oh, this again.

I'm just glad that despite all of that stuff he seems to be a talented designer who, at least going by all the previews of the game, appears to get how to make proper RPGs. That's what is most important to me when deciding on a game like this, not his shitty political views that have nothing to do with it.

 

[semiconscious]

From what the devs said you should be able to focus on a bow if you want. You increase your skills by doing, so if you keep using bow you will get better and better with it.
The game can also be played almost nonviolently - apparently there is only one single character you have to kill during the course of the story.

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great info! thanks! :) ...

 

[TheNamelessOne]

thisisresetera.gif :)

But seriously what is it about the previews that makes you less intrigued, Nameless One? (I loved Torment too! - assuming that is the reference)

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The first showings made it look more sandboxy like a Mount & Blade-type game, but this seems like it's trying to be more "Biowarey".

 

[Jackpot]

He absolutely was making fun of the people who use those labels to insult gamers. And this:

"he's proudly showing off his far right labels of being against representation, social justice, and diversity." is complete misrepresentation. He is not against any of those things.
Do you know why he was against social justice activists in that exchange? Because he got accused by them of being racist for not putting nonwhite people into his game about medieval bohemia that takes place in 16km2, in a country that is even today mostly white, and of being sexist for not making playable protagonist a woman.
He is making a game about his own country, its history and culture, first such realistic RPG of its kind, and he gets accused of racism for it. Would that not anger you? If, say, someone from China makes a game about chinese history and does not put african people in it, would you call him racist?

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He calls Anita Sarkeesian a misandrist.

Ho can you look at that massive list of his own words and pretend "it's all just jokes"? And then you try and spin that it's everyone else's fault he's a bigot for being so down on him.

If you want to enjoy a product without feeling guilty about the creator being a massive dillweed then fine, but there's no need to lie to yourself on such a massive scale.

 

[Lurker]

Meh. It looks like any other open-world game out there with the same cookie-cutter missions and gameplay and mechanics and quest structures and whatnot.

 

[Deleted member 1067]

The game isn't out yet, so we don't know if his political ideology detracts from that.
He's not making fun of labels, he's proudly showing off his far right labels of being against representation, social justice, and diversity.
He was one of the biggest gamergate supporters and would often go about a persecution complex that he's a misogynist.

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what a shitlord

I got enough to play as it is. Won't be hard missing this game, even if it does look good.

 

[dex3108]

Meh. It looks like any other open-world game out there with the same cookie-cutter missions and gameplay and mechanics and quest structures and whatnot.

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[Majingoji]

Really have been looking forward to this title. Its great to see a non-fantasy medieval rpg being made for next gen systems.

Also Bohemia is a great setting in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 11262]

TBH I don't care about him being an asshole. He may be the founder of the studio but there are a lot of people working on this game and I will give it a fair chance without having his shitty views on my mind.

What I can understand is the boycott of The Last Night by Tim Soret, because that guy actually said that his mysogynist views will reflect on the game. Fuck that...

 

[Alice_from_wonderland]

He calls Anita Sarkeesian a misandrist.

Ho can you look at that massive list of his own words and pretend "it's all just jokes"? And then you try and spin that it's everyone else's fault he's a bigot for being so down on him.

If you want to enjoy a product without feeling guilty about the creator being a massive dillweed then fine, but there's no need to lie to yourself on such a massive scale.

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I don't agree with him about Anita Sarkeesian in that tweet, but I found some of his and especially Adrian Chmielarz's critique of FemReq's work valid.
I never said that all of those tweets of his are jokes (that part was referring to the T-shirt). It is clear he is serious when he doesn't appreciate being called sexist/racist/mysoginist for not making the game according to american journalist specifications.

 

[Paul]

The first showings made it look more sandboxy like a Mount & Blade-type game, but this seems like it's trying to be more "Biowarey".

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It was actually always designed to be storydriven, the basic template Warhorse wanted to emulate was basically New Vegas, but in medieval Bohemia. So lot of freedom in how to accomplish quests and branching, but with lot of dialogue, some cutscenes etc.

 

[KonradLaw]

Hope it will be good and it will do good. We need more historical RPGs and since 2K has hollowed out IlussionSoftworks I need Warhorse to carry the torch.

 

[RedSwirl]

From what they had in beta it sure is real, but i kinda fear that becase of lack of cureent bullshit like e quest arrows or mission gps (aka you have to actually read the convos and quest logs, decide based on who the person who you are looking for is and what time of day is) people will hate it similarly how people got to hate Rain World which has also quite complex underlining simulation of the world but people donts see that and say its all random. Because in case of KCD every NPC has daily routine so they are not standing at one place like in most of games these days

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They should probably make that kind of stuff optional.

 

[justjim89]

I want to like this game, but one of the lead devs is apparently a racist, gamergater piece of shit type. Can't support it. It's a shame.

Edit: Apparently that's been well-covered. Oh well.

 

[BernardoOne]

I don't agree with him about Anita Sarkeesian in that tweet, but I found some of his and especially Adrian Chmielarz's critique of FemReq's work valid.
I never said that all of those tweets of his are jokes (that part was referring to the T-shirt). It is clear he is serious when he doesn't appreciate being called sexist/racist/mysoginist for not making the game according to american journalist specifications.

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Yeah, clearly the solution was supporting a massive harassment campaign against women, that clearly proved everyone who thought he was sexist wrong.
Also, your complete misinterpretation of actually happened is quite hilarious to say the least.

 

[sredgrin]

Not only was he a general GG piece of shit he was also EXTREMELY WHINY about some massive conspiracy of journalists not covering his game because they didn't like him. And not, y'know, that his game was in a barely functional pre-alpha state that would come out nearly 5 fucking years later (and which has of course received a ton of coverage from the various evil websites GG and he hated now that it looks like an actual functioning product).

And also he was not accused of being a racist by journalists. What happened is there was a blogger named something like the Black Historian that took issue with his excuse as to why there weren't any PoC and made a blog detailing the various PoC in the area over the years (yes they were rare, but they existed). Of course he took this refutation to mean he was being called an evil racist and overreacted like crazy.

 

[Deleted member 11262]

And also he was not accused of being a racist by journalists. What happened is there was a blogger named something like the Black Historian that took issue with his excuse as to why there weren't any PoC and made a blog detailing the various PoC in the area over the years (yes they were rare, but they existed). Of course he took this refutation to mean he was being called an evil racist and overreacted like crazy.

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He claims that he talked with historians and nobody confirmed any PoC living in Bohemia at that time - and I do believe that actually.
I really don't think that's a valid criticism, but the issues began after this...

Though again: He is not the only one working on the game. I don't think it's fair to boycott a game, because of the personal views of one developer at a mid-sized studio.

 

[sredgrin]

He claims that he talked with historians and nobody confirmed any PoC living in Bohemia at that time - and I do believe that actually.
I really don't think that's a valid criticism, but the issues began after this...

Though again: He is not the only one working on the game. I don't think it's fair to boycott a game, because of the personal views of one developer at a mid-sized studio.

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I mean, he's a the creative director, not like some entry level coder. Is it unfair to boycott Mel Gibson films (particularly one he directs/writes) if you don't want to support someone that thinks the Jews do all the wars in the world?

 

[More_Badass]

He claims that he talked with historians and nobody confirmed any PoC living in Bohemia at that time - and I do believe that actually.
I really don't think that's a valid criticism, but the issues began after this...

Though again: He is not the only one working on the game. I don't think it's fair to boycott a game, because of the personal views of one developer at a mid-sized studio.

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Fair or not fair doesn't matter. It's about what the individual person feels is the right balance between their enjoyment and their values.

Since this is a discussion now and it was brought up earlier, I feel there's a difference between The Last Night and Kingdom Come and why the overall response has been different. The Last Night is made by 2-3 person, and as far as we know, the foundation of the world building is drawn from the lead dev's beliefs and perspective. In that scenario, I can't separate creator from creation

With KC: D, the project is a product of a much larger team, and the story and premise doesn't seem to directly revolve around those beliefs, so it's easier for me to separate the game from its lead dev/creative director/etc.

That doesn't mean I'd still be comfortable buying the game. That's a decision I haven't made yet, and would have to base that on reviews and impressions of the story and how characters are portrayed in the game

 

[Hopping_Mad]

Here is my question: when the game comes out and people are discussin the game in the official thread, are we going to get heckled and the thread derailed because we still bought the game? Or will it be possible to actually talk about it on this forum?

 

[Deleted member 11262]

I mean, he's a the creative director, not like some entry level coder. Is it unfair to boycott Mel Gibson films (particularly one he directs/writes) if you don't want to support someone that thinks the Jews do all the wars in the world?

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In the end everybody can boycott whatever he wants for whichever reasons. Just saying that I, personally, don't think it's fair to the vast majority of the development team who did nothing wrong.

 

[Jackpot]

Here is my question: when the game comes out and people are discussin the game in the official thread, are we going to get heckled and the thread derailed because we still bought the game? Or will it be possible to actually talk about it on this forum?

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Sure, if you drop the whiny persecuted attitude.

 

[Hopping_Mad]

Sure, if you drop the whiny persecuted attitude.

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How about you drop the attitude of 'my way or the highway'? Just ignore the thread if you dont like it.

 

[Jackpot]

How about you drop the attitude of 'my way or the highway'? Just ignore the thread if you dont like it.

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We're discussing events directly related to the game. Can't you take your own advice and ignore the comments on the devs?

 

[Hopping_Mad]

We're discussing events directly related to the game. Can't you take your own advice and ignore the comments on the devs?

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Why arent you?

 

[More_Badass]

Why arent you?

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Because he's discussing the comments on the devs?

 

[Jackpot]

Why arent you?

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Why aren't I ignoring the comments on the devs? Because I want to join in the discussion about them.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

In Vàvra I trust.

Gimme another Mafia levels of goodness. :)

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Thank god Vavra isn't being held back by the publishers and poor consumer practices (Mafia 2's DLC) anymore.

 

[His Majesty]

Previews look great, this will be a day-1 buy for me. I love the grounded setting and the mundane aspect in every part of the game. With the proper context and worldbuilding, running errands and doing blacksmithing jobs can be just as fun as slaying a dragon.

Can the people who do not want to buy the game for political reasons (fair enough) maybe open their own topic? It's annoying to see every KCD thread derailed like this and turned into another GG thread. This is a massive project putting the spotlight on a people seldomly represented in games and what looks like a real RPG to boot. The concept of this game is way too interesting to spend 70% of the thread talking about tweets from Vavra.

 

[justjim89]

Previews look great, this will be a day-1 buy for me. I love the grounded setting and the mundane aspect in every part of the game. With the proper context and worldbuilding, running errands and doing blacksmithing jobs can be just as fun as slaying a dragon.

Can the people who do not want to buy the game for political reasons (fair enough) maybe open their own topic? It's annoying to see every KCD thread derailed like this and turned into another GG thread. This is a massive project putting the spotlight on a people seldomly represented in games and what looks like a real RPG to boot. The concept of this game is way too interesting to spend 70% of the thread talking about tweets from Vavra.

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Maybe he shouldn't have shot his PR and word of mouth in the foot by being a scumbag then.

 

[His Majesty]

Maybe he shouldn't have shot his PR and word of mouth in the foot by being a scumbag then.

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Please by all means open up a new thread to discuss Daniel Vavra's political stances but the added value of those comments in this discussion are zero and are derailing actually interesting discussion on the game's mechanics, worldbuilding and diversity.

 

[Papaya]

I like the idea of this being a real RPG. I've always kept an eye on this, and will pick it up of its good.

 

[His Majesty]

It was actually always designed to be storydriven, the basic template Warhorse wanted to emulate was basically New Vegas, but in medieval Bohemia. So lot of freedom in how to accomplish quests and branching, but with lot of dialogue, some cutscenes etc.

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That's amazing to read. Combining the reactivity and non-linearity of New Vegas with a grounded, Bohemian setting sounds like a dream game and a true sandbox for real role-playing.

 

[Jaxar]

Really pumped for this one.

 

[Alice_from_wonderland]

I want to like this game, but one of the lead devs is apparently a racist, gamergater piece of shit type. Can't support it. It's a shame.

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Wearing a shirt that mocks people who call other people those labels does not mean person is a racist. If you think he is racist, post something that actually proves it.

Yeah, clearly the solution was supporting a massive harassment campaign against women, that clearly proved everyone who thought he was sexist wrong.
Also, your complete misinterpretation of actually happened is quite hilarious to say the least.

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If you have any arguments about what I misrepresented, please provide them. I was following the whole thing fairly closely since I have been interested in the game since the kickstarter. I read many interviews with Vavra, nowhere did I see him support harassment. You claim that anyone who supported GG automatically supports harassment that some anonymous people perpetrated when using the hashtag. I refuse that kind of collective punishment, particularly in an online space where anyone can anonymously do anything with any hashtag.
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[Easy Rider]

If there's one thing I love about this game is how "right" the scale feels in this world. From the terrain to every building, it looks just like a real place.