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Kissing in Video Games: Have we Reached the Next Level

Holyoneturtle

Holyoneturtle

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
841
Hello everyone,

Now that E3 is over, I would like to talk about a topic that has been in many video games but has been done very awkwardly. Kissing. Such a complex thing that we humans do that until recently didn't translate to video games very well.

When I think about kissing in video games i usually think of the awkwardness in the heavy rain and quantic dream games (Haven't played detroit yet so idk about that one), two polygonal heads trying to merge during the ps2 and ps3, or just connecting open mouths. I'm sure there are plenty more examples that I can't think of.

I believe there was even a conversation about the weirdness from the old site.

However, as I was watching the last of us 2 at Sony's presser and enjoying the dialogue between ellie and that other girl (dont know if they ever said her name). I started to feel that a kiss was about to happen. As the moment was approaching I braced myself for the awkwardness. And when the moment came something happened, something was different. why didn't I feel weird about this?

kiss starts at 3:12


That actually looks natural. That actually looks like two human beings are kissing.

Personally, I think the reason that kissed looked soo good is because of the subtleness of the facial muscles as well as two sets of lips moving and interacting naturally with each other. But overall I think this is a new step forward in video games. Yea its not a giant leap but I think its still important when it comes to story telling in games.

So what do you guys think? Is this a new age for story telling in video games? Does this even matter to anyone?

This is my first thread btw, so I hope this all makes sense with what I'm trying to get across.

tldr: kissing has always looked awkward in video games. The last of us 2 trailer showed us kissing finally doesn't look weird anymore. Not a huge leap but important when it comes to story telling.
 
nib95

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
It's certainly the most well realised kiss in a video game I've seen this far due to the nuances of animations and skin movement/deformation etc, but I think other games have done an excellent job too, eg Uncharted 4 and Assassin's Creed Syndicate.

Btw, here's the kiss in GIF form.

the-last-of-us-part-2-kiss.0.0.gif
 
TwilightSparkleMotion

TwilightSparkleMotion

Member
Oct 31, 2017
750
That shit was incredible. Yakuza 0 won't even show a dude eating noodles because mouth animations are hard (I thought he was doing coke), and then Naughty Dog goes and does...this.

A new era a mouths in video games, indeed.
 
Dice

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,451
Canada
3D has to be made to perform almost every action in addition to some very complicated movements with fabrics or muscles. It's why so many games just give girls with short hair/ponytails in part because clipping is so annoying to deal with and very hard to program/accommodate for.

Yes, the kissing in TLOU2 looked beautiful and I'm sure it caused some grief to create, but the effect just shows off that technological prowess that Naughty Dog has.
 
blonded

blonded

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,128
It's mo-capped right? I'd be interested to see if devs can animate a natural-looking kiss by hand
 

Deleted member 11018

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
2,419
Nope, the next level is when we bump our teeth while french kissing...
this is a kids' kiss, not gluttonous enough (lacks drive, don't know how to express that).
 
zsynqx

zsynqx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,450
The kiss in TLOU2 didn't take me out of the scene, so I'd say great success. But got to remember that most other devs can't afford to put their resources into these kinds of things, so don't expect every other game to suddenly have natural looking kisses now.
 
OP
OP
Holyoneturtle

Holyoneturtle

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
841
zsynqx said:
The kiss in TLOU2 didn't take me out of the scene, so I'd say great success. But got to remember that most other devs can't afford to put their resources into these kinds of things, so don't expect every other game to suddenly have natural looking kisses now.
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Agreed, but hopefully AAA games will put some resources into this. Also, I dont think we'll get a kiss of this caliber by the end of the year. so we might need to wait till its an actual normal thing.
 

Deleted member 14002

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Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,121
I'm of the mindset that you shouldn't show a kiss, for the same reason you shouldn't fully show your monsters in a horror game.

Letting the audience imagine it/fill in the blanks with their own details is better.
 
Vinc

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,389
HeyImNewHere said:
I'm of the mindset that you shouldn't show a kiss, for the same reason you shouldn't fully show your monsters in a horror game.

Letting the audience imagine it/fill in the blanks with their own details is better.
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First time I see this take for kisses, if I'm honest :P

Agree about horror though.
 
DarkLordMalik

DarkLordMalik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,626
I don't want kissing in my video games. They are awkward af.

The FFX kissing in the lake made me embarassed.
 
ASaiyan

ASaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
Raven117 said:
Its Yakuza...there may have been coke in the noodles.
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I don't think Kiryu's moral code would let him do coke...if it was Majima though the noodles were probably laced with angel dust, lol.

Anyway, on topic... Naughty Dog's crazy graphic and animation skills strike again. Hurrah for realistic video game kissing.
 

Charismagik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
I can't stand makeout scenes(or sex scenes in general) in movies, let alone games. Always just looks so awkward and unnecessary
 
PetrCobra

PetrCobra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
954
HeyImNewHere said:
I'm of the mindset that you shouldn't show a kiss, for the same reason you shouldn't fully show your monsters in a horror game.

Letting the audience imagine it/fill in the blanks with their own details is better.
Click to expand...
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Well if the dev can't pull off the animation as well as that TLOU2 trailer, I say your way is the best way to do that.
 
Raven117

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
ASaiyan said:
I don't think Kiryu's moral code would let him do coke...if it was Majima though the noodles were probably laced with angel dust, lol.

Anyway, on topic... Naughty Dog's crazy graphic and animation skills strike again. Hurrah for realistic video game kissing.
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I was thinking Majima when I wrote that.

Majima > Kiryu (in terms of character arc in Zero).
 
OP
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Holyoneturtle

Holyoneturtle

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
841
HeyImNewHere said:
I'm of the mindset that you shouldn't show a kiss, for the same reason you shouldn't fully show your monsters in a horror game.

Letting the audience imagine it/fill in the blanks with their own details is better.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Honestly, the only way I thought a kiss could be done, without it taking you out of the game, was to not show it. And I think it was just a limit on technology. But with this trailer, I am now hopeful for the future.
 
Koozek

Koozek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,913
blonded said:
It's mo-capped right? I'd be interested to see if devs can animate a natural-looking kiss by hand
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Kuro said:
Naughty Dog mocaps but then does a massive amount of tweaking by hand so its very likely the kiss was hand animated to some extent
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They actresses and director talk about it here:



They use facial + mocap capture, but the problem is that they can't capture both faces while kissing because of the cameras in front of their face, so they first recorded some general perfomances without the facial capturing and then they made the actresses move their face to the side and pretend they're air-kissing the other person, lol. They at least tried make their cheeks touch so that it feels a bit more intimate.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,216
Kinthey said:
I'd say we've been there before

AC: Unity:

Shqb4iO.gif


Uncharted 4:

uc4ajpt4.gif
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I think what the op is mostly referring to is the lip animation where 2 soft bodies collide and behave somewhat realistically.
Your examples don't really have that judging by the gifs there it's more smart camera angling that circumvents a big chunk of the challenges for depicting kisses in videogames without going into the uncanny valley.
 
Squaresoft

Squaresoft

Member
Jan 23, 2018
431
User Warned: Thread derailment, drive-by
Why is Ellys girlfriend ugly?
Everyone else in all naughty dog games is good looking.
 

Deleted member 5549

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
HosannaExcelsis said:
It's not truly the next level until you can have fully interactive kisses.
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yeah, we need the QWOP of kisses.

edit: also, I was watching the easy allies stream and they were all stonefaced during the kiss scene. once Ellie started throatstabbing they got all giddy. don't wanna imply anything, but it was kinda weird.
 
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