• Light/Dark

Kojima is so far ahead in terms of Cinematography in Games (Warning: GIF Heavy)

sanstesy

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
2,471
GymWolf86 said:
Op is right, quiet on the helicopter is the best "cinematography" i ever seen in a non-porn game.
f4vlwevr


joking here, i'm a kojima fan
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The handling of Quiet in MGSV disqualifies him forever for everything in anything. Probably the most embarrassing thing present in a video game.
 
Nooblet

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,859
The one take kind of fell flat on MGSV because he tried to film scenes like a normal scene with cuts and just replaced the cuts with camera pans, that led to sitautions like 10 camera pans between two characters in 30 seconds.
For other games though, I agree.
 

Deleted member 37928

Banned
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
Both yes and no. He's sometimes overly stylish and dramatic which ends up corny. Like when characters put their heads down and then there's a "SWOOOOOSH!" sound effect when they rotate it upwards. It kind of reminds me of the (in)famous Michael Bay rotating shot. Overall he lingers too much on awkward poses and exaggerated gestures to try to make them look cool, but it ends up like over-the-top anime drama.
 
Last edited:
Zoantharia

Zoantharia

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,860
I really want Kojima to direct a film one day. If just to satisfy my curiosity as to what that would be like.
 

Deleted member 5322

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,523
MGSV's cutscenes are generally pretty terrible. The shakey swigel cam single-shot stuff combined with the thirty thousand lens flares got so old fast.
 
Encephalon

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,909
Japan
Cactuar said:
Kojima is the greatest video game visionary of our time, and as the OP said he practically invented the cinematographic game back in 1998, while further realizing stealth mechanics that he created in the 80s! Literally 99 percent of triple AAA games coming out today emulate either his cinematographic storytelling or his approach to stealth. You can sit here and name 50 games that you think did it better after Metal Gear Solid (and you'd be wrong), but you can't name one before. That's the point. He is the originator, and everyone else is still playing catch up.

A lot of it has to do with most AAA games being handled with a factory approach, so they are all sort of equally beautifully generic. They are the product of many minds and they go through many checks and balances with various people having various views and influence over the end result. Kojima's games are the opposite he's the only true AAA auteur, he writes, directs, produces - you've seen the credits.

This results in Kojima's games being truly his vision, which is why you can't buy "Kojima Productions," because if you buy the studio and he leaves all you have is a multimillion dollar paperweight. Which is essentially what Konami's video game division has become by the way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Panzer Dragoon Saga did pretty well on Saturn, also released in 98. I also feel that RE2 deserves credit, despite being limited by fixed angles.
 
eso76

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,334
Tekku said:
Like when characters put there heads down and then there's a "SWOOOOOSH!" sound effect when they rotate it upwards.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ahah, yeah, he does a lot of that too.
That's why Kojima is such a fascinating creature; one moment he's referencing Melville and pulling some legit video game literature, next he's doing ridiculous silly anime stuff.
And that's not Kojima's only contradiction
 
ket

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
13,297
I really like the shots in MGSV (especially the whole hospital intro). But there are a lot of games that have cinematography that's just as good or even better than Kojima's. I thought GoW 2018's one-shot camera mostly worked well and the way DMC5 was able to effectively show all the over-the-top action happening on-screen was really impressive.

I also feel that Control had pretty unique cinematography that didn't rely on long, one-take shots the way MGSV did.
 
Einchy

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
It always surprises me just how poorly video games cutscenes are framed. Like, would it be too expensive to hire a cinematographer? Y'all shit look like it was shot by someone who has never seen a movie before.

But yeah, Kojima's framing is great.
 
Servbot24

Servbot24

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
43,539
KunaiDrilla said:
Nice try, but no. Not even close. Nothing tops this opening comparing it to MGS series. The shots, the setup, the music and introduction to the city is fucking amazing. And that writing, whew.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I can't get on board with that pick at all. That intro makes me feel like I'm clumsily walking through a game engine with some cool assets in it. A movie should never just feel like a theme park ride with the occasional quote from a philosopher. A great cinematographer should be eliciting beauty from the art of cinematography itself.
 
Jimnymebob

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,871
KunaiDrilla said:
Nice try, but no. Not even close. Nothing tops this opening comparing it to MGS series. The shots, the setup, the music and introduction to the city is fucking amazing. And that writing, whew.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


This is like if the part on Jurassic Park where you first see the dinosaur was in first person. There's absolutely no build up or dramatic tension created though camera work, just 'looks forward out of the car. It's a dinosaur'.
 
Cian

Cian

One Winged Slayer
Member
Feb 17, 2018
592


I appreciate the artistry of the one take, but it really doesn't work if you're going to just replicate standard cinematography without the cuts. This scene is ridiculous and loses all of the punch it should have because the cameraman has to keep on running around and zooming between Snake and the Man on Fire.
 
Patitoloco

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
I like his style in MGS1-4, I think it went to hell in V. The no cut approach DOES NOT WORK (I'm also looking at you, God of War). Cutscenes need pacing and editing to work.
 

Frunkle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
769
sanstesy said:
The handling of Quiet in MGSV disqualifies him forever for everything in anything. Probably the most embarrassing thing present in a video game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"The handling of Metallica's St. Anger disqualifies the whole band from ever being discussed in a positive light ever again."

Also, most embarrassing thing in a video game? Seriously?
 
ViewtifulJC

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
The one-shot thing in MGS5 was terrible. There's a lot of stuff in that game, like the constant pointless lens flares, you can tell he's doing it just because oooh just like Real Hollywood Movie, and not because it was the right choice for this scene or this character or whatever MGS5 was thematically suppose to be about. There's an opportunity cost involved whenever you decide on a shot, and having it all be one take was a huge one. There are so many scenes where his previous skill at shot compositions is imposed because he has to constantly pan back and forward in a blatantly artificial way now that shot/reverse shot was taken from him. Instead of an insert shot or a close up, most of the time he will will just constantly move and zoom the camera in, so why not just do in the normal way? The worst thing is how the one take constantly draws attention to itself in how contrived and forced it is. The whole point of using something like that is to keep you in this one sequence, as an immersive tool. It stops working when you're constantly aware of the technique itself instead of the storytelling its trying to convey. MGS5 having a large variety of of storytelling issues that causes the mind to wander is distracting enough, it didnt need the camera helping that out.
 
eso76

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,334
newmoneytrash said:
the kojima obsession on this board is embarrassing

like he's got a good directorial eye but so far ahead of *everyone* in games? FOH
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The obsession with Kojima goes both ways on this forum.

But afaik, he's the only one to use cinematography to reinforce the themes in his games or convey particular emotions. Then he also likes to indulge in trash anime shots.
 
OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,534
Arthands said:
But...where's the V shaped motif? One is turning from back perspective mid-far shot distance to front perspective mid shot
Another is essentially a perspective close shot to a close side-by-side 2 shot
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Staring you right in the face? Kojima isn't actually subtle about it. It's actually funny how people complain about Kojima being so overt yet can't pick up on some pretty clear things he does.

More examples:

giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif



By the way, the whole shaky/third person camera is clearly meant to convey the feeling of V being watched as when we learn the "Truth" the camera switches to traditional editing to establish that this is the real Big Boss. No one follows him around, no shakiness but a steady camera as BB is firm and in control.





eso76 said:
OP went out of his way to explain how cinematography is used to enforce certain themes, how composition and the way sequences are shot and framed have a deeper symbolism and impact.
People completely ignoring this and posting cutscenes that "look cooler!".

Yeah, I don't know anyone in the industry that uses cinematography to the extent HK does.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


This is Era, I expected maybe 5% to actually read the OP.


sabrina said:
Kojima's alright, but Remedy is better.

spoilers for Control so don't click on this


And Kojima knows this too, because he has a cameo in the Control. Meanwhile Kojima had to get Doritos Pope to cameo in his game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Funny, I made this thread because I thought the Cinematography in Control was quite bad. Cool shots/setups don't make for good cinematography. Like, the simple way conversations are filmed is horrid.
 
jett

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,767
OP you'll regret your words and deeds after looking at this cut-scene

 
Servbot24

Servbot24

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
43,539
sanstesy said:
That's what I would call this, yeah.






Maybe "most creepy" fits the description better, though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I love MGSV, I like Quiet a lot as a character... and yeah that rain scene may truly be the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen in a video game. Not including the pedophilia seen in some anime games.
 
Arthands

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
BossAttack said:
Staring you right in the face? Kojima isn't actually subtle about it. It's actually funny how people complain about Kojima being so overt yet can't pick up on some pretty clear things he does.

More examples:

giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif


giphy.gif



By the way, the whole shaky/third person camera is clearly meant to convey the feeling of V being watched as when we learn the "Truth" the camera switches to traditional editing to establish that this is the real Big Boss. No one follows him around, no shakiness but a steady camera as BB is firm and in control.








This is Era, I expected maybe 5% to actually read the OP.




Funny, I made this thread because I thought the Cinematography in Control was quite bad. Cool shots/setups don't make for good cinematography. Like, the simple way conversations are filmed is horrid.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Oh, I can see where this is going uh. lol
 
Servbot24

Servbot24

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
43,539
Lol

I wonder if there's any interviewer with the courage to ask him why he's such a horn dog

I honestly don't care that much since I like sexual characters and absurdity, but there's no denying it cheapens what is otherwise a high quality product
 
SavoyPrime

SavoyPrime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,180
North Carolina USA
I'll give him his props all day when it comes to his production skills. He is the best of the best when it comes to that. It's everything else that he is not so good at in my opinion.
 
Biestmann

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,418
BarryFishFinger said:
Basically perfectly sums up the issues I have with Kojima. For a board that is so hot on apparently caring about equality and appropriate representation of women I don't understand this obsession with a guy who puts together cutscenes like this one with gratuitous close ups of tits and ass when it has zero bearing on the characters or story not to mention characters like Quiet parading around like a barely pubescent teen's wet dream. It's embarrassing to be honest. Your cut scenes can be a directorial tour de force but if the content is this low grade it negates everything else.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Everyone that cares about that dunks on him whenever given the opportunity. The truth, though, is that most people on here don't care all that much.
 
ThreepQuest64

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
Terror-Billy said:
Wolfenstein 2 has some great camerawork and editing going on. There's some crazy cinematography in there that would be hard to pull off right on a movie.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Came here to say this. I rarely see such skill and craftsmanship in games, especially shooters. Those Swedes really now what they're doing in terms of directing and cinematography.

Subconian Dreamer said:


truly a master
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

lol, is this a fan mod/fan movie?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.