LA Noire - Wha Happun?

[Fat4all]

https://youtu.be/DN-Hv3pnVz0

L.A. Noire is an interesting game. Reviewed well, sold well, has some issues but is generally liked. But behind the scenes at Team Bondi in Sydney there was a different story being told. One of crunch, constant turnover in hiring, and a man who demanded his employees sacrifice their life energy for his game. A raging director? Unpaid overtime? Pay freezes? Leaving work at 3 a.m. and working 6 hours later at 9 a.m.? A hundred people left off the credits?

lock this thread and name your next game Whore of the Orient if old

 

[Deleted member 16876]

I am thankful to this game for teaching me what crunch was. It was really depressing reading the things postdd by the developers.

Almost a decade after and it is still a huge problem in gaming.

 

[vestan]

Haven't watched the vid yet but McNamara must have been a bitch to work for. The workplace culture at Team Bondi really seemed all over the place and morale must have been really low in the lead up to launch. Rockstar North really came in clutch making sure the game could actually ship in the end.

 

[Glass Arrows]

What a character this McNamara is.

And by that I mean christ, what an awful person.

 

[Acquiescence]

Now that The Last Guardian, Shenmue 3 and FFVII Remake are all out/coming out soon, Whore of the Orient is my new dream to believe in.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Man, the facial animations really didn't age well huh

 

[DanarchyReigns]

L.A. Noire is another example where the story behind the production is more interesting than the final product. I mean, it was fine, but the shit with McNamara is just insane.
I hope Matt eventually does a "Wha Happun" on the Wii U. That would be a good one.

Now that The Last Guardian, Shenmue 3 and FFVII Remake are all out/coming out soon, Whore of the Orient is my new dream to believe in.

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What about Agent?

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Man, the facial animations really didn't age well huh

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The animations aged great since it's just 3d video. It's everything else that looks tremendously dated. Fidelity, etc...

 

[Siggy-P]

Man, the facial animations really didn't age well huh

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Nah, they aged amazingly. Still better than every (and I mean every) piece of facial animation nowadays.

The overacting is what aged badly.

 

[Cosmo Kramer]

I loved the game, will have to watch this latee

 

[Fat4all]

The animations aged great since it's just 3d video. It's everything else that looks tremendously dated. Fidelity, etc...

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the biggest issue with the tech is that the actor can barely move while recording the capture, and hair has to be either short or tied down/under a hat or else the animation wonks out

 

[Decarbia]

Man the title of this video Wha Happun irritates the fuck out of me

 

[Fat4all]

Man the title of this video Wha Happun irritates the fuck out of me

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dats wha happun

 

[OneThirtyEight]

Man the title of this video Wha Happun irritates the fuck out of me

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Agreed. The videos are good but that name of the series is sooo bad.

 

[milkyway]

This was a good watch, I only first played the game on the Switch last year and I loved it but it's a shame its production was so fucked up.

 

[ScreamingMadden]

Nah, they aged amazingly. Still better than every (and I mean every) piece of facial animation nowadays.

The overacting is what aged badly.

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This gif kind of indicates your point. Great facial animation, but some crazy overacting. Though this scene admittedly was intended to have overacting.

Also 7 minutes into the video and man McNamara was cruel. I freaking love the Wha Happun series. It's a great, informative series on gaming and film's greatest financial and critical failures. In the case of L.A. Noire though, it was a failure of treating human beings decently.

 

[Fat4all]

The overacting can be rough in a few places, but there's a few scenes where it really works, like Cole pulling his gun on Roy

L.A. Noire: Cole Tells Roy How It Is

Haha it kinda surprised me, and with the facial animation it just kinda blew me away. Definitely one of the "Fuck yeah!" moments in the game.

youtu.be

 

[Phellps]

Absolutely love the game and it's really sad that so many people went through this bullshit to actually make it. I hope the IP is given to another studio, I can only imagine what a talented team lead by competent people can make of all of its potential.

Also, fuck McNamara.

 

[Brian McDoogle]

Will watch later, but I assume this covers the entirely terrible working conditions people had to go through. I was really disappointed by the game. The main story just straight up steals from classic Hollywood movies and some of the characters have personality changes to get them to their final spots. I also think the game suffers from telling you when you were wrong in a line of questioning or intuition. Rather than tell the player in the moment that they screwed up and encouraging save-scumming, just notify them at the end of the case; more like The Colonel's Bequest. I also think the game suffers for being open world, and would rather it have more detailed specific locations than a lot of areas you'll never explore because it's not fun to navigate the world and it's better to just let your partner drive unless you have to do it yourself.

 

[Fat4all]

Will watch later, but I assume this covers the entirely terrible working conditions people had to go through. I was really disappointed by the game. The main story just straight up steals from classic Hollywood movies and some of the characters have personality changes to get them to their final spots. I also think the game suffers from telling you when you were wrong in a line of questioning or intuition. Rather than tell the player in the moment that they screwed up and encouraging save-scumming, just notify them at the end of the case; more like The Colonel's Bequest. I also think the game suffers for being open world, and would rather it have more detailed specific locations than a lot of areas you'll never explore because it's not fun to navigate the world and it's better to just let your partner drive unless you have to do it yourself.

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the biggest focus when it comes to the game is the open world being more set-dressing then something you could actually enjoy, but for the most part the video covers the development and a bit of the back and forth between Bondi and RS

 

[Deleted member 39374]

The remaster on PS4 Pro was very enjoyable (aside from the empty "open world")...a shame it came from a toxic work environment though

I'm still hoping for a sequel or something else for the franchise

 

[Glass Arrows]

I also think the game suffers for being open world, and would rather it have more detailed specific locations than a lot of areas you'll never explore because it's not fun to navigate the world and it's better to just let your partner drive unless you have to do it yourself.

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They cover that in the video. One of the devs acknowledged that the open-world basically sucked and explained that it was because they had such garbage employee retention that they couldn't get animators to work on the project to help give the open world more content. Apparently a lot of the gameplay/non facial capture animations were done by like one person.

 

[mccauslander]

The ramifications of Team Bondi's churn and burn culture are still being felt here in Sydney. There is still a general mood of disgust and distrust towards AAA game dev held by some of the veteran local devs - many of them ex-Team Bondi. I was lucky to be rejected for one of the junior graduate roles as I was still at college at the time.

I did not know that McNamara was still in Sydney making games. I hope he gets what's coming to him for what he has done to our scene.

 

[Fat4all]

The remaster on PS4 Pro was very enjoyable (aside from the empty "open world")...a shame it came from a toxic work environment though

I'm still hoping for a sequel or something else for the franchise

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I think a sequel could be possible, the Remaster i feel was a concerted effort to keep people interested.

Virtuos handled the port and worked out a fair bit of bugs that were still in the original game

 

[Denamitea]

Thanks for the video fatty. Will watch tonight

 

[DaniThePinguim]

I am thankful to this game for teaching me what crunch was. It was really depressing reading the things postdd by the developers.

Almost a decade after and it is still a huge problem in gaming.

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Lmao lost my shit with this video

 

[MechaJackie]

The story about the development of this game is nothing short of infuriating, the fact that McNamara continues to work in this industry in a directorial role, or any role that gives him power over employees, is disgusting. This the first "Wha Happun?" from Matt that left me genuinely angry, it was like I was hearing this specific story again for the first time, so upsetting.

Edit: While searching for his name on google, I found a old thread here about McNamara's return to game development, there are some frustrating reactions in that thread about him coming back, wouldn't recommend reading that after watching the video. I will just assume that the people in that thread weren't aware of his behavior.

 

[scottbeowulf]

In my top 10 game soundtracks of all time. Actually played on PS3 and PS4 and loved the game but that soundtrack... Whew.

 

[Deleted member 18025]

Is this game worth it?

Sorry to derail the thread.

Need a new switch game

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Shane that Orient game never came through.

 

[Fat4all]

Is this game worth it?

Sorry to derail the thread.

Need a new switch game

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I like it. it has its issues but its a fairly slow-paced game with some interesting mechanics when it comes to investigations.

the way you interrogate people takes some getting used to and can sometimes not make sense, but its a neat feature overall, showing off the actors goofiest expressions

 

[ShinobiBk]

One thing that would've helped the game considerably was cutting out the open world. It served no purpose. Outside of the story missions there wasn't really anything to do.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

The main thing I'll remember of this game is when you accused someone falsely it was the most hilarious shit.

"YOU'RE THE WIFE OF HITLER AND YOU SPAWNED SATAN DIDNT YOU"

 

[HStallion]

Man, the facial animations really didn't age well huh

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Doesn't help they're completely disconnected from the rest of the body making things really awkward.

 

[Fat4all]

One thing that would've helped the game considerably was cutting out the open world. It served no purpose. Outside of the story missions there wasn't really anything to do.

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only the final mission of the Homicide desk utilizes it in any real way, and even them its just specific landmarks you visit, and one you've been to before already

outside of that i always fast-traveled everywhere

 

[KDC720]

L.A. Noire is still a favorite of mine, despite its flaws. Still I had no idea how bad things were at Team Bondi until I watched this.

Funnily enough, it made me want to go back and watch the old SBF Lets Play of the game, and pretty much right off the bat they mention how awful McNamara was.

I would like to see some sort of sequel or spiritual successor some day.

 

[Fat4all]

The main thing I'll remember of this game is when you accused someone falsely it was the most hilarious shit.

"YOU'RE THE WIFE OF HITLER AND YOU SPAWNED SATAN DIDNT YOU"

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"sorry, sometimes you've got to shake the tree to see what falls out"

 

[MechaJackie]

The main thing I'll remember of this game is when you accused someone falsely it was the most hilarious shit.

"YOU'RE THE WIFE OF HITLER AND YOU SPAWNED SATAN DIDNT YOU"

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Actual best part of the game, so fucking absurd.

 

[Siggy-P]

Is this game worth it?

Sorry to derail the thread.

Need a new switch game

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The games great and incredibly unique, but from the Vice desk onwards the story becomes a mess and annoyingly the remastered versions don't let you skip dlc missions.

Plus you have to play the game a second time to even have a chance of getting the cases all right because of a mid-game twist.

Still though it's one of the best non-combat focused games there is, even if there are combat sections (which you can actually skip). I was staying at my Grandmothers when I got this game as a younger teen and she got really invested in it watching me play it.

 

[Multiverse Moo]

Still watching this, but wanted to see some of the comments in the thread...

Nah, they aged amazingly. Still better than every (and I mean every) piece of facial animation nowadays.

The overacting is what aged badly.

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Hard disagree about being better than "every" piece of facial animation.

Uncharted 4, Detroit Become Human, Injustice 2, Resident Evil 2, even God of War and certain characters in RDR2 have better facial animation (not to mention detail).

 

[Siggy-P]

Still watching this, but wanted to see some of the comments in the thread...


Hard disagree about being better than "every" piece of facial animation.

Uncharted 4, Detroit Become Human, Injustice 2, Resident Evil 2, even God of War and certain characters in RDR2 have better facial animation (not to mention detail).

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Nah, they look excellent and have a much higher fidelity and framrate, don't get me wrong. But there's a still a level of artificial uncanny valley in their movements. That and the range of facial movements is still limited by the character skeleton making all the small twitches and movements look fake becauae... well they usually are added afterwards. None of them move as fluidly as LA Noirse faces either. Every muscle is very litteraly robotic in how it is created.

The faces on LA Noire move like an actual human. Because they are straight up recordings of a human face.

Injustice 2 Harley Quin is the best single animated face I ever seen though, won't lie.

 

[wombleac]

 

[Multiverse Moo]

Nah, they look excellent and have a much higher fidelity and framrate, don't get me wrong. But there's a still a level of artificial uncanny valley in their movements. That and the range of facial movements is still limited by the character skeleton making all the small twitches and movements look fake becauae... well they usually are added afterwards. None of them move as fluidly as LA Noirse faces either. Every muscle is very litteraly robotic in how it is created.

The faces on LA Noire move like an actual human. Because they are straight up recordings of a human face.

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Ah, well there is a distinction here that you are speaking to - and that is realistic human faces, in which case the "animation" in LA Noire is mostly just video, with simple geometry deformation beneath it.

My comparisons were in terms of actual animation fidelity, and the two that you picked are stylized characters that don't look exactly like the actors performing them.

 

[Modest_Modsoul]

Is this game worth it?

Sorry to derail the thread.

Need a new switch game

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In my opinion, NO.

Better spend your money on something else.

LA Noire is the rise & fall & uselessness of Cole Phelps.

 

[spman2099]

Also, fuck McNamara.

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Yeah, everything I have ever heard about that guy seems to establish him as a complete piece of trash. That being said, I think there are a lot of people who think like him running studios, they are just smart enough to keep their mouths shut when the press is around. Still, I hope he gets his in the end.

 

[bulletyen]

Nah, they look excellent and have a much higher fidelity and framrate, don't get me wrong. But there's a still a level of artificial uncanny valley in their movements. That and the range of facial movements is still limited by the character skeleton making all the small twitches and movements look fake becauae... well they usually are added afterwards. None of them move as fluidly as LA Noirse faces either. Every muscle is very litteraly robotic in how it is created.

The faces on LA Noire move like an actual human. Because they are straight up recordings of a human face.

Injustice 2 Harley Quin is the best single animated face I ever seen though, won't lie.

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Great comparison, and very good point. It shows how far we still have to go in terms of capturing/depicting realistic human facial performance (even if that's not the end of all). Nothing compares to the faces of LA Noire. Every tiny twitch and quirk in every part of the face and every subtle split second micro expression captured, down to the asymmetry and imperfection.

Personally I think artists have done all they can in other games short of using the LA Noire approach. I think in the future it will be up to AI to bridge that gap and take us to the next level.

 

[Paz]

My biz partner worked on this for a few years, the stories I've heard are so absurd they strained my belief even after having been in this industry for a long time. If ever there was a game where the life force of human beings was directly siphoned into the product, this was it.

Also the face tech is a fascinating yet dead end technology.

 

[fontguy]

LA Noire is the Dong Dong Never Die of facial animation.

 

[SPRidley]

Nah, they look excellent and have a much higher fidelity and framrate, don't get me wrong. But there's a still a level of artificial uncanny valley in their movements. That and the range of facial movements is still limited by the character skeleton making all the small twitches and movements look fake becauae... well they usually are added afterwards. None of them move as fluidly as LA Noirse faces either. Every muscle is very litteraly robotic in how it is created.

The faces on LA Noire move like an actual human. Because they are straight up recordings of a human face.

Injustice 2 Harley Quin is the best single animated face I ever seen though, won't lie.

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I prefer that uncharted gif that fluid video animation with absolutely dead eyes thay never move.
Is animated by hand and it has much more life.
If the fluid video animation then was paired with actual animators that could animate the eyes and body in a belivable way, then we could talk.

 

[Deleted member 29682]

LA Noire is the rise & fall & uselessness of Cole Phelps.

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A deeply flawed and ultimately ineffectual protagonist is an extremely common element in noir. If anything Jack Kelso is where the problem lies.