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Deleted member 23212

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11,225
Chinese Learning

欢迎! This thread is meant to facilitate the learning and discussion of the Chinese language. In here, you will be able to:
  1. Meet and get acquainted with others who are learning Chinese
  2. Ask for resources/correction/advice on the acquisition of Chinese
  3. Practise writing in Chinese

The Chinese "language"

Chinese belongs to the Sino-Tibetan language group, and is by far the largest variant in terms of speakers. However, Chinese is not one language, but rather a group of related but mutually unintelligible languages. The most common ones that people learn are Cantonese and Mandarin (though even then it is debated whether these two are languages or sub-groups of the Chinese language family!)

  • Cantonese comes from the traditional English name for Guangdong, it has reached a far-reaching impact due to emigration, as well as being the main language of Hong Kong and Macau, the two SARs
  • Mandarin is the most widespread variant of Chinese, and its Beijing dialect is what Modern Standard Chinese is based on (though from what I've researched it is not exactly the same as it). Mandarin has become the lingua franca of China, and should be understood by most educated Chinese.

Pinyin
The official romanization system of Modern Standard Chinese. However, this is not meant to be a replacement to the Chinese characters; rather it is meant to help facilitate correct pronunciation of words. This system was made by a Chinese person, so do not expect the letters to match up to what exactly you will expect.

pinyinchart.png

Hanzi
Chinese uses one of the most complex writing systems in the world. Not only are there thousands of characters in common usage (though, to be honest a few hundred characters make up a large majority of the most frequent words), but there are two separate sets depending on where you are. Mainland China and Singapore use simplified characters while Taiwan, Hong Hong and Macau use traditional characters.

th


Radicals
Chinese characters should not be learned as completely individual units. Rather, characters are made up of radicals which combine. Recognizing these radicals, while making the hurdle larger at the beginning, makes it much easier to learn and memorize characters, as well as allowing you to use native Chinese dictionaries which are often grouped by radicals rather than by Pinyin.

KangXi-Radicals.gif

Resources

Chinese Grammar Wiki - Gives many different grammar points, along with examples for each
 
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OP
OP

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
11,225
So, before I finish calling this a work in progress, I'd like some input from the community here on what I should add. Resources are fairly obvious, as well as adding other categories and possibly pictures to use as headings, but I'd like some feedback first so that I can work around that stuff!
 

benru

Member
Feb 7, 2018
28
大家好!

Just found this thread, but I guess Chinese learners are far and few between? I'm a Chinese student in Taiwan so would be cool to get some discussion going. In terms of community I've always relied on the learning Japanese ones since the methods can be applied for both languages quite easily.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
大家好!

Just found this thread, but I guess Chinese learners are far and few between? I'm a Chinese student in Taiwan so would be cool to get some discussion going. In terms of community I've always relied on the learning Japanese ones since the methods can be applied for both languages quite easily.
Yeah, I hope there will be more participation here. Do you have any input/suggestions for how I can improve the OP?
 

Skytylz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
780
I'm guessing not many see it. So it gets lost in hangouts.

I've been learning for almost 3 years now. Pretty casually, so I'm not great by any means.

九月我会坐飞机去北京。

I'm very excited!
 
OP
OP

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ps3ud0

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,906
I'm just using Pimslers course on this so just the spoken language.

I just find it hard to make a breakthrough in understanding.

ps3ud0 8)
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
... And thread watched. I'm gonna be going to school for foreign language teaching so I'm gonna be majoring in Chinese once my general education credits are out of the way!

It seems way harder to self study mandarin compared to Japanese... Maybe because I haven't been consuming Chinese comics and cartoons since I was a kid like I have been Japanese.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
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Oct 28, 2017
11,225
OK guys, I'll see what I can do to make the OP better! But I'd really love some suggestions for resources!
 

Skytylz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
780
I like to use quizlet and spaced repetition to study vocabulary. I've heard people use Anki, but I've never tried it. Too many flash cards at this point that I don't want to switch.

The spaced repletion made a huge difference for me and I've finally been able to maintain vocabulary even though I don't get any practice outside of classes.

BuddyDharma I liked Yoyo chinese when I was getting started. Helped with pronunciation a lot.
 
Dec 11, 2017
2,528
Hello everyone! I know absolutely nothing at the moment, but I'm keen to take on Mandarin and learn as much as I can. I've read about a few apps that help with the early stages, but I was curious to see if anyone had any recommendations? Duolingo seems to be poorly reviewed, and I've read good things about LingoDeer.
 

Skytylz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
780
Hello everyone! I know absolutely nothing at the moment, but I'm keen to take on Mandarin and learn as much as I can. I've read about a few apps that help with the early stages, but I was curious to see if anyone had any recommendations? Duolingo seems to be poorly reviewed, and I've read good things about LingoDeer.
I don't really use apps much right now, but Chinese skill was good when I was getting started. Don't ignore tones at the start by the way, I've heard of people doing it and can't really recommend it.
 

Ty4on

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Norway
我现在在北京学中文,但是我的汉语水平很低。我去北京以前在挪威学了一年。

Taking a bachelor's degree with a semester in Beijing. I really wish I had found some stuff to watch or listen to, I usually just have to grab whatever I find, but it's usually not interesting enough to hold my attention and quite hard to follow.
It's a bit frustrating that my level is just very very basic conversation. The advantage to being stuck in China is most people speak zero English, but it's usually easier to just point and say "zhege" instead of actually learning the name.
Classes are all in Chinese which feels really helpful. The teachers use vocabulary we understand, but getting it told again helps cement the meaning. When I study words on my own the pronunciation is just noise.
 

siddx

Banned
Dec 25, 2017
1,807
Been trying to learn for a couple of months now. It's like my brain mashes up everything and immediately spits it out my ass so I retain nothing. I've never been good at languages but Chinese is a nightmare for me. I'd say it's even harder than Arabic which also made my brain hurt trying to learn.
 

Vuze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
Didn't know we had on OT. I've finally settled on material and apps, started learning two weeks ago with Integrated Chinese + Pleco for Spaced Repetition vocabulary.

I'm just having a terrible time remembering the tones but I guess it's good I can atleast quickly adopt the hanzi so far.
 

the-pi-guy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,284
你们好。
Still a beginner. I generally worry about tones and pronunciations. It's very different from other languages I've tried learning.
 

HomokHarcos

Member
Jul 11, 2018
2,447
Canada
Been trying to learn for a couple of months now. It's like my brain mashes up everything and immediately spits it out my ass so I retain nothing. I've never been good at languages but Chinese is a nightmare for me. I'd say it's even harder than Arabic which also made my brain hurt trying to learn.
I really wanted to learn Arabic when I was in high school (I still wish I knew it) but it is one hard language to learn.
 

AngryMoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
341
大家好!我学了3年了左右,但是我的水平还很低。最近一年我住了在福州,当了英文老师。现在我刚搬到英国因为我要做程序员,还没有经验狗为了拿大签证。我不确定要不要回去中国,但肯定要继续学中文。

I'll give a quick app recommendation, Du Chinese is the thing I've found most helpful for improving my vocab and comprehension.

Piece of advice for beginners; start with phonetics and pronunciation. I met so many foreigners in China who dived straight into learning phrases and produced language that would never be understood by the average Chinese person. I personally used a website called yoyochinese when first started learning which I found to be pretty good and gave me a solid foundation to build off.

Hope this thread takes off, would be great to have a place practise on Era!
 
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Grazzt

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,543
Brisbane, Australia
Don't worry too much about tones, most of time we can understand what you are saying from the context.
I have forgotten how to write a lot of characters since I moved to Australia four years ago. It might be a bad advice, but I think don't bother with writing either, it's too hard.

还没有经验狗为了拿大签证
I can't understand this part.
 

mugwhump

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,292
what does this mean, an angry chinese man texted me this

去你奶奶的大屌
 

AngryMoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
341
Don't worry too much about tones, most of time we can understand what you are saying from the context.
I have forgotten how to write a lot of characters since I moved to Australia four years ago. It might be a bad advice, but I think don't bother with writing either, it's too hard.

I can't understand this part.
That's my bad, I'm super rusty at the moment. I was trying to say I don't have enough experience to apply for the work visa.

This is just my personal experience but what I've found is that Chinese people who can speak some English and are used to communicating with foreigners can understand you even with bad tones, but the majority of people will not. My apartment complex was called 凤湖新城, and I spent my first few months saying that to taxi drivers mispronouncing 凤 as first tone. Usually I'd just get blank stares. I used to be baffled when my Chinese friends repeated it for me and the guy instantly understood, when I felt like they'd just said the exact same thing I had lol.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,641
Huh, I just recently started taking Mandarin lessons. I used to speak it with my parents and attend Chinese school as a kid, but those tapered off. I can speak conversationally but am basically illiterate.

What do we talk about in this thread? Lol
 

sayuuna

Member
Sep 6, 2018
548
臺灣 「 臺北市 」
I would totally contribute but rarely do I find people who 為使用於貼罷練習繁體字 which sucks because conversing is hard and my interests are not in places like China or Singapore. Seeing simplified characters everywhere for me is 壹個樣害蟲討厭肆周屋子飛 and I inevitably feel forced to keep distance lol.

EDIT: To be more productive, allow me to enunciate:

I think the OP can improve by being more inclusive towards people who use Traditional Characters. 中國 , 馬來 , 菲律賓 , 新加坡 , etc. are not the only places on Earth who speak and use Chinese as properly suggested, but with that said I think it is 不夠簡寫只是在這兒 . Most 瀏覽器 , 網站 , and 貼罷 give people the option (or specify) which are being used, and it makes some feel more inclusive (given a considerable minority of Chinese learners learn 繁體字). Thank so much!
 
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Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,312
Oh nice, didn't know about this thread.
I've been studying Chinese for 2 years in my university, my biggest problem is remembering how to write the Hanzi, they're a freaking nightmare! When I had to practice for exams I simply wrote them over and over with no real method, but I'm sure there must be a better way.
 

Ty4on

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Norway
This is just my personal experience but what I've found is that Chinese people who can speak some English and are used to communicating with foreigners can understand you even with bad tones, but the majority of people will not. My apartment complex was called 凤湖新城, and I spent my first few months saying that to taxi drivers mispronouncing 凤 as first tone. Usually I'd just get blank stares. I used to be baffled when my Chinese friends repeated it for me and the guy instantly understood, when I felt like they'd just said the exact same thing I had lol.
It's not just hard to deal with tones, but also recognizing whether or not you're saying the correct tones.
Even if it's not tonal our native languages all have tones somewhere like in English where we count with fourth tones and end questions with a second tone.

I am really interested in phonology so I looked at the Chinese phonology for a long time before starting my studies and it feels like that really helped me, especially when I'm trying to order food and have to pronounce something straight from a dictionary.

Oh nice, didn't know about this thread.
I've been studying Chinese for 2 years in my university, my biggest problem is remembering how to write the Hanzi, they're a freaking nightmare! When I had to practice for exams I simply wrote them over and over with no real method, but I'm sure there must be a better way.
Split them into radicals and focus on it as if you're spelling with radicals. 慢 for me is heart, day, sideways eye, right hand. Short stories can help a lot too.
I feel like using the correct stroke order is really helpful too, that way I have a consistent way of writing it and it's quite consistent apart from a few exceptions.

When I try to memorize them I first look at them and start to construct them in my head, if they feel a bit alien I'll try to write them a bit too. Then I look away and try to keep memorizing them. I'll try to hold a few in my mind and write them somewhere to see if I got them right and this seems to create a small imprint in my head. Later I'll try to go over all the words with flashcards or something similar to see which I didn't remember and focus on the bits I struggled with. Usually I'll miss a radical and I'll think about why a silk radical is so fitting or something.

Writing them over and over did nothing for me, but I feel like that "construction" phase when I try to recall it is really helpful.
 

Zaeia

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,091
Thanks OP for trying to get a new OT up and running. I think the FSI resources could prove useful to some. Also, the Chinese Grammar Wiki can be very useful! For advanced learners, perhaps, the chairman's bao.
 
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Zaeia

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,091
Thanks for the recommendation, that app seems really useful and well though out indeed.

I would be careful with that site. I just looked through the preview lessons and it teaches an odd mix of familiar and formal. Why have "是个医生" which I'm guessing is for purposes of non-redundancy, but then have "我的妈妈" and "我的爸爸" instead of "我妈妈" and "我爸爸". (I could be wrong, I amam forgetti if that shortening is only a feature of subject positions and not predicate)Also, it teaches "你干什么" for how are you. As far as I know this phrasing is considered rude. It is often used to ask "how dare you do (something)" or "what have you done (are you plotting)?" Or at least it was often used in 武则天 that way.
 

Vuze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
I would be careful with that site. I just looked through the preview lessons and it teaches an odd mix of familiar and formal. Why have "是个医生" which I'm guessing is for purposes of non-redundancy, but then have "我的妈妈" and "我的爸爸" instead of "我妈妈" and "我爸爸". (I could be wrong, I amam forgetti if that shortening is only a feature of subject positions and not predicate)Also, it teaches "你干什么" for how are you. As far as I know this phrasing is considered rude. It is often used to ask "how dare you do (something)" or "what have you done (are you plotting)?" Or at least it was often used in 武则天 that way.
Oh, thanks for the info, I'll keep it in mind. Will probably whip up a script that dumps the free content to plain text that I could then use with Pleco Reader (and therefore have lookup access to the dictionaries therein).
E: That was pretty easy, if anyone wants the script, just DM me.

Any other recommendations for beginner texts? I like the concept of The Chairman's Bao. Still got a lot to learn until I will consider subscribing / buying any reading material but I guess it would be nice to have some good sources ready when I feel confident enough.
 
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Hycran

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,494
For people looking for podcasts, I like "learn Mandarin now" and "Chinese learn online". They are free and don't have a bunch of bullshit or some guy from Peru trying to teach you. Also. If you really want to bang it out, memrise HSK is great for learning words and the characters so you can read.

Be VERY wary of google translate. Even extremely elemental things can be wrong there.
 

sayuuna

Member
Sep 6, 2018
548
臺灣 「 臺北市 」
For people looking for podcasts, I like "learn Mandarin now" and "Chinese learn online". They are free and don't have a bunch of bullshit or some guy from Peru trying to teach you. Also. If you really want to bang it out, memrise HSK is great for learning words and the characters so you can read.

Be VERY wary of google translate. Even extremely elemental things can be wrong there.

Definitely. You could not translate most native speakers' writing on there.

For what it is worth, though, native speakers tend to use less characters (from my experience), which makes it easier to read anyway.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,126
China
What I want to say is.... please learn pronounciation. I am a foreigner myself when Im in China, but I know a lot of people who passed HSK5, but Chinese cant understand them, because they never learnt the correct pronounciation where Xie Xie is "SHAY SHAY".
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,312
What I want to say is.... please learn pronounciation. I am a foreigner myself when Im in China, but I know a lot of people who passed HSK5, but Chinese cant understand them, because they never learnt the correct pronounciation where Xie Xie is "SHAY SHAY".
Shay shay? All my native speaking teachers pronounce it as "see-eh see-eh"
 

the-pi-guy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,284
Shay shay? All my native speaking teachers pronounce it as "see-eh see-eh"
It's not quite shay shay.

It's more like if you tried to say shie shie, while trying to make the "sh" noise with your tongue behind your bottom teeth.

It's not quite as pronounced as "sh" in English, and it's not too far off from an "s" sound.
 
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Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
I mean I hear a lot of Americans saying SHAY SHAY instead of xiexie.
I'll be very surprised to meet anyone who passed the HSK5 and don't know how to pronounce xie xie.
But yeah, pronunciation is super important and it was the thing I struggled with the most with (and let me real, I'm always a couple of beers of away from struggling with it again).