Lenovo Mirage Solo released (6dof stand-alone VR headset, competitor to Oculus Go)

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

A lot of talk about Oculus Go this week, and everyone seems to have missed the stealth release of the much superior Lenovo Mirage at the exact same time:

At $400, these are the all-in-one VR headset to watch, not the Oculus Go. The main reason being that, unlike the Oculus Go, this headset does inside-out markerless positional tracking. Meaning that, while the Oculus Go only tracks pitch, yaw, and rotation, this tracks your X, Y, and Z location around the room. On the Oculus Go, if you lean forward, that motion isn't picked up, and this can cause sim sickness. On the Lenovo Mirage, that action is tracked, and your view adjusts accordingly and correctly. This is the first product to use Google's WorldSense technology, which is essentially the long result of Project Tango.

Like the Oculus Go, the Mirage is an all-in-one headset. No slotting in phones, no tethering to a PC, just put on the headset and it goes.

This is a DayDream headset, meaning it runs Google's DayDream Platform. DayDream is the successor to Google Cardboard, essentially the "big boy" consumer version of Google Cardboard.

Worth picking up on the Lenovo Mirage? Rez Infinite:

This was the all-in-one headset I was waiting on picking up. It's $400. I'll be grabbing one later this week and posting impressions.

baggage · May 6, 2018

6DoF and Rez Infinite? Niice!

Those 180 degree cameras do look really cool, though the Youtube player for Vive is still kinda messy to use, that 180VR is a real good idea.

Thwomp · May 6, 2018

It being an android device, will we be able to use emulators on it?

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

baggage said:
6DoF and Rez Infinite? Niice!

Those 180 degree cameras do look really cool, though the Youtube player for Vive is still kinda messy to use, that 180VR is a real good idea.

6DOF is a real game changer. I can't stress enough how much of an improvement 6DOF is. 6DOF makes it possible for things like SculptrVR, which requires positional tracking, to come to Mirage where it could never go to Oculus Go. From those I've been talking to who have the Mirage Solo already, SculptrVR is awesome on it:

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Heads up - you can save $100 on the launch price when you order online using the coupon code, "MIRAGEVRLA"

Fatal · May 6, 2018

Positional tracking is super important. Headsets will not exist without this feature soon enough. But at this price point it's not going to happen.

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Fernando said:
It being an android device, will we be able to use emulators on it?

Probably. I saw one person mention online that it can be used as a chromecast receiver, so you can stream stuff from your PC to it in a virtual theater.

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Fatal said:
Positional tracking is super important. Headsets will not exist without this feature soon enough. But at this price point it's not going to happen.

This isn't the only DayDream stand alone headset in the works. A bunch of major players intend to put out DayDream stand alone headsets, including Samsung and Xiaomi, both who worked on GearVR and Oculus Go respectively. A number of different manufacturers will yield competition that will drive down the price, just like we see with the Windows VR headsets.

Aztechnology · May 6, 2018

It's far too expensive to be an actual competitor. Unless it can also connect to a PC to double as a full VR device.

Fatal · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
This isn't the only DayDream stand alone headset in the works. A bunch of major players intend to put out DayDream stand alone headsets, including Samsung and Xiaomi, both who worked on GearVR and Oculus Go respectively. A number of different manufacturers will yield competition that will drive down the price, just like we see with the Windows VR headsets.

Good good

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Aztechnology said:
It's far too expensive to be an actual competitor.

it's $300 right now vs the Oculus Go's $200

if anything, I'd say the Go is ridiculously overpriced. $200 for a 3DOF headset in 2018???

Aztechnology · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
it's $300 right now vs the Oculus Go's $200

if anything, I'd say the Go is ridiculously overpriced. $200 for a 3DOF headset in 2018???

I thought it was $400? Also if it's Android only the vast majority of the experiences on those platforms likely don't leverage 6dof right? At least for mobile VR games specifically. Ports maybe, but those are few and far between.

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Aztechnology said:
I thought it was $400?

Krejlooc said:
Heads up - you can save $100 on the launch price when you order online using the coupon code, "MIRAGEVRLA"

Aztechnology said:
Also if it's Android only the vast majority of the experiences on those platforms likely don't leverage 6dof right?

DayDream != Android != Cardboard

6DOF is literally just a build option for DayDream. It's part of the SDK.

May 4th was both the launch of the Mirage Solo and of WorldSense. It's been literally 1 day since DayDream 6DOF has been out.

Captjohnboyd · May 6, 2018

Yikes one with 6DoF came out quick. God I'm so tempted but that price point on the go is delicious. Krejlooc any idea how the lenses compare? Ive read some stuff that say the lenses/res on the go is really good and I'm definitely looking at one of these as a big theater toy as much or more than budget VR

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Captjohnboyd said:
Yikes one with 6DoF came out quick. God I'm so tempted but that price point on the go is delicious. Krejlooc any idea how the lenses compare? Ive read some stuff that say the lenses/res on the go is really good and I'm definitely looking at one of these as a big theater toy as much or more than budget VR

I wouldn't want to comment on optics until I have one in my hands. There are people on twitter who have them but they haven't been commenting much on the optics, even though I've asked them.

Captjohnboyd · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
I wouldn't want to comment on optics until I have one in my hands. There are people on twitter who have them but they haven't been commenting much on the optics, even though I've asked them.

You gonna post in this thread when you get yours? I eagerly await your informed opinions

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Captjohnboyd said:
You gonna post in this thread when you get yours? I eagerly await your informed opinions

Very much plan on it, put in an order just before posting this topic.

Should note that the launch of this was basically a total surprise. Just suddenly boom -- people on twitter were like "Hey, the Mirage is out NOW."

Really crazy for a launch. Kind of mirrors the Go's launch.

Captjohnboyd · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
Very much plan on it, put in an order just before posting this topic.

Should note that the launch of this was basically a total surprise. Just suddenly boom -- people on twitter were like "Hey, the Mirage is out NOW."

Really crazy for a launch. Kind of mirrors the Go's launch.

Definitely smart play. I don't own a PC powerful enough for VR and have been wanting to jump on the bandwagon for a while now and these portables seem like the perfect solution until I have better options. Seeing the two of them come out unexpectedly like this has made me even more likely to pick one up

panda-zebra · May 6, 2018

Specs lacking from the OP can be found here: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/4/1...-google-daydream-standalone-vr-headset-review

Apps have to be specifically optimized for WorldSense motion, but over 70 of them already support it, including standout titles like rhythm shooter Rez Infinite and the satirical narrative game Virtual Virtual Reality.

This be didn't seem too impressive at all "Google and Lenovo don't say how big a space WorldSense can track, but with the Mirage Solo, you're artificially limited to one square meter. If you go outside it, everything pauses until you move back in place or reorient the headset."

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Just a heads up, the VRLA coupon code is now only $50, earlier tonight it was giving a $100 discount. Seems like once VRLA ended officially (about 1 hour ago) the discount went down.

Captjohnboyd · May 6, 2018

Ugh was hoping that discount would last till friday lol

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

panda-zebra said:
Specs lacking from the OP can be found here: https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/4/1...-google-daydream-standalone-vr-headset-review

This be didn't seem too impressive at all "Google and Lenovo don't say how big a space WorldSense can track, but with the Mirage Solo, you're artificially limited to one square meter. If you go outside it, everything pauses until you move back in place or reorient the headset."

This is not intended for roomscale tracking, this is intended for positional tracking. Positional tracking is huge, even if it's not roomscale. Every VR major headset except the GearVR and Oculus Go have had some form of positional tracking since the DK2 has come out. Without positional tracking at all, VR headsets are missing a major component.

Lack of positional tracking causes VR sickness in lots of people.

Flandy · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
6DOF is a real game changer. I can't stress enough how much of an improvement 6DOF is. 6DOF makes it possible for things like SculptrVR, which requires positional tracking, to come to Mirage where it could never go to Oculus Go. From those I've been talking to who have the Mirage Solo already, SculptrVR is awesome on it:

It really is. It feels like you're just looking at a 3D image without it. With 6DOF it really makes you feel like you're in a different world

Dr Doom · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
Heads up - you can save $100 on the launch price when you order online using the coupon code, "MIRAGEVRLA"

I'm only getting $50 off

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Dr Doom said:
I'm only getting $50 off

Yeah, people PMed me recently and I tried a second order, and now it's $50 off. Earlier it was $100.

To clarify, VRLA is an event. It ended about an hour ago.

Aztechnology · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
DayDream != Android != Cardboard

6DOF is literally just a build option for DayDream. It's part of the SDK.

May 4th was both the launch of the Mirage Solo and of WorldSense. It's been literally 1 day since DayDream 6DOF has been out.

Yea but my point is with the limited processing power and price point of this device. The target audience is kind of iffy. The kind of person who would really want to take advantage of 6DOF and have controllers? (Does it have hand presence?) It doesn't look like it includes controllers in that sense. Anyway my point being its appealing in terms of tech, and a nice upgrade. But the limiting factor is still its use case potential and the audience that would be interested in this. Which would likely be the next step beyond casual user at this price. Which is gamer. Which is limited by software available/formatted for it and hardware.

I guess I'm just curious if this actually services an audience the other offerings don't.

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Aztechnology said:
Yea but my point is with the limited processing power and price point of this device. The target audience is kind of iffy. The kind of person who would really want to take advantage of 6DOF and have controllers? (Does it have hand presence?) It doesn't look like it includes controllers. Anyway my point being its appealing in terms of tech, and a nice upgrade. But the limiting factor is still its use case potential and the audience that would be interested in this. Which would likely be the next step beyond casual user at this price. Which is gamer. Which is limited by software available/formatted for it and hardware.

I guess I'm just curious if this actually services an audience the other offerings don't.

Your point would hold weight if this was a single product that was responsible for the entire market. It's not. It's one of a range of products.

Did you know that, by support, Cardboard obliterates all other VR platforms? There is more support for cardboard than any other VR platform, precisely because they follow the android model. This is one headset, of which there will be many over a range of prices. It seems pretty silly to say "but where is the software" when the time since launch can be measured in hours, not days. The software will assuredly come. And, like cardboard, it'll likely come from enterprise, not gaming.

The reason I've always had faith in the DayDream platform to eventually become the dominant VR platform is because they target the lowest end primarily, just like android did. Hell, if you have an AndroidN phone, you can build a DayDream headset out of a pizza box. WorldSense, going forward, is going to be built into phones. Much like the move from DK1 to DK2, it'll take a bit of time for positional tracking to become the norm, but it'll absolutely happen.

Aztechnology · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
Your point would hold weight if this was a single product that was responsible for the entire market. It's not. It's one of a range of products.

Did you know that, by support, Cardboard obliterates all other VR platforms? There is more support for cardboard than any other VR platform, precisely because they follow the android model. This is one headset, of which there will be many over a range of prices. It seems pretty silly to say "but where is the software" when the time since launch can be measured in hours, not days. The software will assuredly come. And, like cardboard, it'll likely come from enterprise, not gaming.

The reason I've always had faith in the DayDream platform to eventually become the dominant VR platform is because they target the lowest end primarily, just like android did. Hell, if you have an AndroidN phone, you can build a DayDream headset out of a pizza box. WorldSense, going forward, is going to be built into phones. Much like the move from DK1 to DK2, it'll take a bit of time for positional tracking to become the norm, but it'll absolutely happen.

Android targeted the lowest end in terms of a communication/internet connected device that's literally almost a necessity in life today. It's not quite the same situation.

As far as support, you can say the same thing about apps/mobile games. It's insanely flooded. That doesn't mean the quality is there, and with a device like this the early adopters aren't really casual users.

I do get where you are coming from. But what in terms of Enterprise, what so you see them bringing here to sell enough to justify a product like this. Commercial/Enterprise usually takes an inordinately long time to adopt stuff like that for use. Hell lots of places ard still using computers from over decade ago.

I really do wonder why they didn't take this beyond and allow it to leverage a computer with detachable cable as well. That would have added incredible value.

MrKlaw · May 6, 2018

Was very much looking forward to this, but It feels too expensive - same price as a full oculus rift, while simultaneously being held back by daydream base requirements of only 3dof tracking. Initial impressions from eg Tested are that there aren't enough apps updated to support 6dof yet. That's the critical thing for me.

Yes I know rift needs tethering and a beefy PC for high quality gaming, but not so much for simple gaming or media apps, the kind you'd get with the mirage.

This has only has one controller which does not have 6dof, so it has motion tracking but only like the oculus go controller. And the positional tracking really needs more flexibility - I know it isn't designed to do room scale, but it seems to have a hard limit of around 1m sphere around you and fades to black outside of that.

Both releases are interesting and i'm Curious which (if any) provides decent games support. For $400 i'd want something that is more than just a media device, while the cheaper $200 go is almost immediately being put in that media pigeonhole and seemingly dismissed for games

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Aztechnology said:
Android targeted the lowest end in terms of a communication/internet connected device that's literally almost a necessity in life today. It's not quite the same situation.

As far as support, you can say the same thing about apps/mobile games. It's insanely flooded. That doesn't mean the quality is there, and with a device like this the early adopters aren't really casual users.

I find this entire line of conversation weird because, at the core, you're trying to say that DayDream isn't a legitimate contender to Oculus Go, but are hedging your argument on quality. 3DOF isn't quality. I would argue there are NO quality Oculus Go games, because 3DOF and quality literally don't go together. 3DOF is about as close to "broken" as you can get for a major VR headset these days. I literally consider Oculus Go to be of extremely poor quality for a VR headset.

Further, my comment about lots and lots of enterprise on Cardboard wasn't in reference to the app store, but rather bespoke applications developed for clients. As in, the type of stuff you wouldn't know is quality or not.

I do get where you are coming from. But what in terms of Enterprise, what so you see them bringing here to sell enough to justify a product like this. Commercial/Enterprise usually takes an inordinately long time to adopt stuff like that for use. Hell lots of places ard still using computers from over decade ago.

The reason people are using computers from a decade ago is because, for the purposes of most enterprises, the gains of computers over the last decade have been negligible. You don't need hyper powerful computers to run spreadsheet software.

Meanwhile, you look at places like Car Dealerships, which have been installing VR headsets because they want to let people sit in virtual cars that aren't available on the lot, or places like MD Anderson which uses VR headsets for aversion therapy, and there is a very obvious market. And in both cases, paying $200 more for a headset that won't make their customers sick is something that is a marked, and discernable improvement.

Aztechnology · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
I find this entire line of conversation weird because, at the core, you're trying to say that DayDream isn't a legitimate contender to Oculus Go, but are hedging your argument on quality. 3DOF isn't quality. I would argue there are NO quality Oculus Go games, because 3DOF and quality literally don't go together. 3DOF is about as close to "broken" as you can get for a major VR headset these days. I literally consider Oculus Go to be of extremely poor quality for a VR headset.

Further, my comment about lots and lots of enterprise on Cardboard wasn't in reference to the app store, but rather bespoke applications developed for clients. As in, the type of stuff you wouldn't know is quality or not.

The reason people are using computers from a decade ago is because, for the purposes of most enterprises, the gains of computers over the last decade have been negligible. You don't need hyper powerful computers to run spreadsheet software.

Meanwhile, you look at places like Car Dealerships, which have been installing VR headsets because they want to let people sit in virtual cars that aren't available on the lot, or places like MD Anderson which uses VR headsets for aversion therapy, and there is a very obvious market. And in both cases, paying $200 more for a headset that won't make their customers sick is something that is a marked, and discernable improvement.

I guess we'll differ in opinion here. I just feel like the processing power needs to be a lot higher or give people the ability to leverage something that has if should the user choose to. Feels like a bit of a wierd middle ground that I'm just not sure has enough value for most consumers to pay that extra bit. I don't think enterprise adoption is enough for a product like this either. But hey, we'll see.

MrKlaw · May 6, 2018

Aztechnology said:
I guess we'll differ in opinion here. I just feel like the processing power needs to be a lot higher or give people the ability to leverage something that has if should the user choose to. Feels like a bit of a wierd middle ground that I'm just not sure has enough value for most consumers to pay that extra bit. I don't think enterprise adoption is enough for a product like this either. But hey, we'll see.

Agree - right now it feels too expensive to be a mass market option, but too low powered at the same time. Oculus rift pricing, oculus go performance level. This is putting aside the objectively better 6dof tracking, but if you're only applying that tracking as a sticking plaster on top of primarily 3dof designed apps and games, I don't know if you'll get the true value from it.

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

MrKlaw said:
but if you're only applying that tracking as a sticking plaster on top of primarily 3dof designed apps and games, I don't know if you'll get the true value from it.

Not making people sick in VR is priceless.

And you're nuts if you think that 6DOF, even if it's not roomscale, is not a massive value increase. 3DOF is entirely unacceptable.

MrKlaw · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
Not making people sick in VR is priceless.

And you're nuts if you think that 6DOF, even if it's not roomscale, is not a massive value increase. 3DOF is entirely unacceptable.

I agree - having having Vive and PSVR after the rift DK1 and gearVR it is a huge benefit. I certainly wouldn't buy an expensive gaming VR headset without it.

I just think the price point and the (possibly temporarily) lack of differentiating apps vs oculus go, makes it a difficult sell.

Deleted member 2620 · May 6, 2018

6DOF on the HMD is the bare minimum for "worthwhile VR". I feel really strongly about this.

Really looking forward to hearing your impressions, Krejlooc. This definitely slipped under my radar. I'm not sure this would be a great purchase overall, but I'd love to mess around with one of these 6DOF standalone HMDs development-wise.

Aztechnology · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
Not making people sick in VR is priceless.

And you're nuts if you think that 6DOF, even if it's not roomscale, is not a massive value increase. 3DOF is entirely unacceptable.

Wait, if it has inside out tracking shouldn't it be capable of room scale? Or do you just mean that many apps might not support it.

Keratay · May 6, 2018

Would love to know how the tracking compares to the windows MR headsets, a coworker said that the positional tracking on those wasn't good enough and was making him dizzy.

And that's my main concern. I tried the oculus go at GDC and it worked impeccably... for a 3dof tracking headset. Like, that's as far as we need to go with 3dof, let's move on. Had I known they were going for 6dof with the Lenovo daydream headset I would have waited in the daydream line too :/

ebsy · May 6, 2018

The fact that it's 6DOF is much more appealing to me, personally. When I saw the Go was 3DOF it was an instant deal-breaker.

MrKlaw · May 6, 2018

Aztechnology said:
Wait, if it has inside out tracking shouldn't it be capable of room scale? Or do you just mean that many apps might not support it.

According to the tested video, Lenovo have said it could track you walking a long way. But the OS right now has a hard limit of a few feet either direction

They were also positive about the quality of the tracking.

For games I'd argue lack of hand presence is almost as important as 6dof and this does r offer hand presence

345 · May 6, 2018

Krejlooc said:
Your point would hold weight if this was a single product that was responsible for the entire market. It's not. It's one of a range of products.

Did you know that, by support, Cardboard obliterates all other VR platforms? There is more support for cardboard than any other VR platform, precisely because they follow the android model. This is one headset, of which there will be many over a range of prices. It seems pretty silly to say "but where is the software" when the time since launch can be measured in hours, not days. The software will assuredly come. And, like cardboard, it'll likely come from enterprise, not gaming.

The reason I've always had faith in the DayDream platform to eventually become the dominant VR platform is because they target the lowest end primarily, just like android did. Hell, if you have an AndroidN phone, you can build a DayDream headset out of a pizza box. WorldSense, going forward, is going to be built into phones. Much like the move from DK1 to DK2, it'll take a bit of time for positional tracking to become the norm, but it'll absolutely happen.

i replied to you about this in the oculus go thread, but this isn't really true. daydream only supports a select list of android phones — they have to have low-persistence (generally OLED) screens and a bunch of other requirements, as well as explicitly having daydream support built in by the manufacturer. it's not like cardboard where you can just put any phone in a viewer, though of course there's a degree of backwards compatibility.

put more simply, the vast majority of android 7.x phones can't play rez infinite.

Al3x1s · May 6, 2018

So you haven't even tried either but proclaim it to be so superior? I mean, it's also double the price so it has to be superior for sure and is hardly a competitor to something costing half that anyway. That's like saying a GTX1060 GPU is a competitor to the company's own 1080. Also, inside out tracking hasn't proven to be flawless as claimed here with the likes of the Windows Mixed Reality partner headsets according to most in-depth reviews and comparisons with the outside in sets so we really need to wait on impressions for that. For $400 it's also in the territory of the full not-stand-alone headsets with all kinds of controllers and sensors included (but not the hardware to run things obviously), so for anyone with an actual gaming PC it can be an easy choice between the two as well (of course if you don't have a gaming capable PC that's not the case and changes nothing). I mean, if it works that well it bodes well for the future for wireless plug and play not-stand-alone headsets without all the cabling too so it would be exciting even for those not interested in this specific product but yeah. I particularly don't like how all the stand alone sets so far opt for less than 90Hz refresh rates (then again what could mobile level hardware run at 90 fps, it's why I want a PC set) when that's been the number one minimum to keep for VR after tons of research by the pioneering in the field companies, but we'll see how it all works out.

Official product page with specs and shit not found in the OP here, I had to google for it but now you don't, lol.

joker · May 6, 2018

Blade Runner Revelations looks cool and quite ambitious for a mobile VR game, looking forward for impressions.

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Al3x1s said:
So you haven't even tried either but proclaim it to be so superior?

I have tried all manner of 3DOF and 6DOF headsets and I know without a doubt that any 6DOF headset is intrinsically superior to 3DOF. I haven't spoken at all about optics or resolution, because those are not areas I have firsthand knowledge of, but yes, every single time, 6DOF is superior to 3DOF. This is irrefutable

Also, inside out tracking hasn't proven to be flawless as claimed here

I did not make this claim at all. Methinks you read a lot of things I didn't write in your mind.

Deleted member 13364 · May 6, 2018

Rez Infinite doesn't really need 6DOF.

Deleted member 12790 · May 6, 2018

Number of Completion said:
Rez Infinite doesn't really need 6DOF.

Virtual Reality in general needs 6DOF.

SleepSmasher · May 6, 2018

How much "worse" is this tech compared to Oculus' and Vive's tracking sensors?

joker · May 6, 2018

felipepl said:
How much "worse" is this tech compared to Oculus' and Vive's tracking sensors?

The headtracking is according to first reviews similar good, but you don't have room scale and of course no 6dof controller tracking.

Aztechnology · May 6, 2018

felipepl said:
How much "worse" is this tech compared to Oculus' and Vive's tracking sensors?

Hard to say without extensive testing. But I imagine it's somewhere along the lines of WMR. So solid overall, but limited with some minor hiccups.

Arthands · May 6, 2018

i am holding off the purchase, because i am not enticed by the current library, i already spend some money on Oculus Go, it is already sold out, and it is out of my budget.

I'll probably buy it few months later, let it mature a little more

Aztechnology · May 6, 2018

Arthands said:
i am holding off the purchase, because i am not enticed by the current library, i already spend some money on Oculus Go, it is already sold out, and it is out of my budget.

I'll probably buy it few months later, let it mature a little more

Honestly I think you'll be able to find this for $200 within 6 months.

Lenovo Mirage Solo released (6dof stand-alone VR headset, competitor to Oculus Go)

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