What is the state of modern gaming?

  • We are getting same amount of masterpieces

    Votes: 502 36.2%
  • We get lesser amount of masterpieces

    Votes: 365 26.3%
  • We are getting more masterpieces

    Votes: 521 37.5%

  • Total voters
    1,388

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
1,876
Canada
Well, Tetris endures as well, as does Pac-Man, Pong, etc. People do preserve them as you say, I think motivated more so by their affection for something they had a lot of fun and good times with, more so than for "artistic value" in whatever way we'd define that.

For me it is just hard to wrap my head around placing these type of games in the same category as retro games that expressively, thematically speak to SOMETHING beyond "I'm having fun playing with this thing." Those types of retro games I just see as our version of Roblox, they're distinct from something like Shadow of the Colossus.

But games have always been difficult in this way because they started out as digital versions of tabletop or carnival games, then morphed more into an alternative to literature and film.

So honestly even though I have my own views on the matter, it is fine with people disagree as it is a complicated subject.
I personally just think that games as an art form are in this weird spot in their immaturity where we're putting the wrong emphasis. Films started out as carnival-esque attractions too, some of what we call classic literature now was mass-appeal pulp. Video games aren't so different imo, and in desperately trying to prove the artistic worth of the medium I think sometimes we do put too much emphasis on artsy-fartsiness and the appearance of prestige, something even films sometimes struggle with to this day. I love me some Disco Elysium but I also love me some classic Tomb Raider, even if the latter doesn't have any profound messages about people or the world around us. I also think it's unfair as it sort of boxes out some genres and styles of games as lesser when one puts that criteria upon it imo.

But yeah, complicated subject and it's all good to disagree. Fun to discuss, though.
 

lostsupper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
'Choose five games to play for the rest of your life' is a fun silly little thought experiment for a lighthearted convo but how the heck does it apply to serious discussion? If someone really loves games as an art form I doubt they would be happy being limited to ANY five games, and it's just a weird fantasy scenario that doesn't apply to real life anyways. Nobody would be wrong to choose any game either because opinions are subjective like that, they like what they like.

The question was about "masterpieces." If you sincerely believe the term can be applied to ANY five games (emphasis yours) then the original post is a moot question for you.
 

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
1,876
Canada
The question was about "masterpieces." If you sincerely believe the term can be applied to ANY five games (emphasis yours) then the original post is a moot question for you.
I mean there's a completely reasonable line between 'here's my personal opinion on what games are masterpieces and if there are more of them these days or not' and telling somebody they're wrong for thinking X game is a masterpiece. It's not an all or nothing and opinions differ, and nobody's opinion is any more right than another person's, not yours, not mine, not anyone else's.
 

lostsupper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
Sure, let's get specific.

In the first half of 2024, here are some of the highest profile RPGs:

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth
Persona 3 Reload
Like A Dragon: Infinite Wealth
Dragon's Dogma 2
Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes
Unicorn Overlord
Granblue Fantasy: Relink
SaGa: Emerald Beyond
+Elden Ring expansion pass
+SMT V: enhanced+expanded version
+Hades 2 early access

I'd argue that this lineup of RPGs is a stronger list of RPGs than the entire RPG line-up of any year in the 90s or 2000s. And this is only half of a year and this is only some of the higher profile games - there are lots of other gems if you're willing to look for them.

We're getting a lot more high-quality games now than ever before.

To my point--you're listing among other titles an unreleased DLC. Is it not a source of fierce cognitive dissonance that you're bestowing masterpiece status to a DLC package that nobody has played yet?

Fandom blinders are a thing but this is just willful participation in the marketing cycle.
 

lostsupper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
I mean there's a completely reasonable line between 'here's my personal opinion on what games are masterpieces and if there are more of them these days or not' and telling somebody they're wrong for thinking X game is a masterpiece. It's not an all or nothing and opinions differ, and nobody's opinion is any more right than another person's, not yours, not mine, not anyone else's.

False. Some opinions are horseshit. Especially the ones that so closely echo the marketing of a thing. We can respect each other, but we do not have to respect stupid ideas.
 

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
1,876
Canada
False. Some opinions are horseshit. Especially the ones that so closely echo the marketing of a thing. We can respect each other, but we do not have to respect stupid ideas.
Cripes, we're talking about video games here, it's not some gravely deep shit like politics. Somebody completely innocently thinking a game you don't like is a masterpiece doesn't make them stupid or their opinion horseshit, saying so is weirdly elitist, and I don't throw that word out lightly. C'mon now.
 

eraFROMAN

One Winged Slayer
Member
Mar 12, 2019
2,975
We're getting more, which makes the perceived value of each "lower," so it feels like less if you aren't paying attention
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,796
To my point--you're listing among other titles an unreleased DLC. Is it not a source of fierce cognitive dissonance that you're bestowing masterpiece status to a DLC package that nobody has played yet?

Fandom blinders are a thing but this is just willful participation in the marketing cycle.

I'm not bestowing masterpiece status on any of these games. I never said that any of these were masterpieces; I said that they were some high-profile RPGs and that this is an impressive lineup of games and that lends credibility to the idea that high quality games are coming out at a much faster rate than in the 90s and 2000s.

I haven't played most of the games on that list and honestly, who could? That's my point. There are so many high-quality games coming out now that nobody has the time to play them all. 722 games were released on the SNES in North America. Last year, over 14,000 games were released on Steam. Yes, plenty of them are bad, but that was true of past eras as well.

If you played the Top 5% of games released on Steam last year, you'd play about as many games as the SNES got in NA over the course of its entire lifespan and I can guarantee that the average quality of those Top 5% on Steam would be drastically better than the quality of the average SNES game. We remember the highs, but there were some stinkers.


P.S. The Elden Ring expansion is the thing that you take umbrage with? The expansion to a game widely considered to be one of the best games of the modern era from a developer that has a history of delivering high-quality expansions? You couldn't at least pick Eiyuden Chronicles?
 

dishwashers

Member
Dec 10, 2022
214
In the past 1 year alone, we've had the following games that I could probably make a solid argument for calling a masterpiece:
  • Balatro
  • Penny's Big Breakaway
  • Lethal Company
  • Animal Well
  • Street Fighter 6
  • Mosa Lina
  • Super Mario Bros. Wonder
  • F-Zero 99
Add a week and I could add Humanity. Plus, there's some other games that I could easily see someone else making an argument for recognizing as masterpieces:
  • Baldur's Gate 3
  • Starfield
  • Alan Wake II
  • Cocoon
  • Pikmin 4
  • Void Stranger
  • Shadows of Doubt
And games that I'd bet will be masterpieces:
  • Metaphor Re:Fantazio
  • Rivals 2
Don't even feel like I'm cheapening my definition of a "masterpiece" by labelling any of these games as one. We're in a great time for games by this criteria, and even better one if we look at all the games that I'd just call "really good"
 

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
1,876
Canada
In the past 1 year alone, we've had the following games that I could probably make a solid argument for calling a masterpiece:
  • Balatro
  • Penny's Big Breakaway
  • Lethal Company
  • Animal Well
  • Street Fighter 6
  • Mosa Lina
  • Super Mario Bros. Wonder
  • F-Zero 99
Add a week and I could add Humanity. Plus, there's some other games that I could easily see someone else making an argument for recognizing as masterpieces:
  • Baldur's Gate 3
  • Starfield
  • Alan Wake II
  • Cocoon
  • Pikmin 4
  • Void Stranger
  • Shadows of Doubt
And games that I'd bet will be masterpieces:
  • Metaphor Re:Fantazio
  • Rivals 2
Don't even feel like I'm cheapening my definition of a "masterpiece" by labelling any of these games as one. We're in a great time for games by this criteria, and even better one if we look at all the games that I'd just call "really good"
Lethal Company is such an oddball pick to call a masterpiece but I respect the hell out of it. It sure does create memorable incidents like few other games lol.
 

dishwashers

Member
Dec 10, 2022
214
Lethal Company is such an oddball pick to call a masterpiece but I respect the hell out of it. It sure does create memorable incidents like few other games lol.
I'd actually call Lethal Company the most impressive and miraculous out of all those games there, and go as far as to call it the most brilliant co-op video game ever made. Even in Early Access, its my pick for 2023's GOTY and the best game of the 2020s so far.
Also, it's just so cool to see an indie game by a solo ex-Roblox dev pop off in the way it has. Roblox is full of young, talented developers that I wish could find success in leaving that awful platform.
 
Dec 5, 2017
672
It's seemingly harder to come up with unique gaming mechanics.

Most games are a combo of previous ones, so they are compared to similar games and if they are slightly worse at anything it's hard for us to say it's a masterpiece.
 

Reveirg

Member
Nov 20, 2017
303
We are getting more masterpieces.

I often think back of when I was a kid and I would dream of what games would be like in the future. I regularly feel like I am living in that dream now.

I still have crazy dreams about the future future games and they're amazing too
 

The_R3medy

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,917
Wisconsin
Lots of games we think of as masterpieces are in part due to the time in our lives we played them in. Growing up, games were an escape for me. I felt a level of security in an insecure world with them, and could pour myself into things like Pokemon Silver, Ratchet & Clank, and Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Then High School came around, and Halo 3 became the biggest game for me because it helped connect me with my friends for frequent customs.

Other games I consider masterpieces like Mass Effect 2, Fallout 3, and Pokemon X/Y all did brand new things for me as a player. Now that I've experienced those, it's hard to hit that same high again.

But at the same time, there's a crazy amount of masterpieces I've played in the last decade. Witcher 3, Baldur's Gate 3, Citizen Sleeper, Insomniac's Spider-Man, Breath of the Wild, Hades, Stardew Valley, Forza Horizon 4/5, and Ghosts of Tsushima have all done incredible things and expanded their genres in ways I never thought possible.

Also, one of the biggest things that makes something feel like a masterpiece is time. We reflect back, and find something to be so iconic. We'll look back at so many games this way in the next decade.
 

Darkreaver

Member
Feb 16, 2024
84
I think we are when we look at high budget games.
Even a lot of indie games are getting better scores...
 

Naner

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,133
Almost by definition we should wait a few years before calling something a "masterpiece", so I think it's a moot point discussing how many of them there were recently.

Additionally, it's extremely hard for any game today to compete in terms of relevance with the ones in the 90s that were breaking so much new ground in the medium. We remember those games more for what they brought to the table than for how competent they really were in all aspects.

The rapid technological advancement on which this medium is completely reliant makes it impossible to compare a mid '90s game with a mid '20s game and keep a straight face. And if you limit the comparison to games that are somehow similar (same series, same genre), that's not at all representative of what's going on in the industry.

Finally, never forget that for each of those mid '90s masterpiece, there were 100 shitty licensed games that you don't even remember. The filter of time does wonders.
 

Arithmetician

Member
Oct 9, 2019
2,108
We've swapped 5 20-hour masterpieces per year for one 100-hour masterpiece per year. The number of individual releases has decreased, but the number of hours spent on them hasn't.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,849
It depends. Certain genres are a lot less plentiful (3D platformers, arcade racers, rhythm games). Polish has probably improved across the board. Dev times have gone up but so have the number of developers making games.

I think the biggest change is that the medium has matured to a point where the occurrence of something that coming out with truly revolutionary game mechanics or story telling ideas is a lot less common. By "truly revolutionary" I don't mean they reached a certain level of quality, I mean that they accomplished something that it felt like no other game had up to that point in time. Street Fighter 6 is a better game than Street Fighter 2, but the latter was revolutionary and important and the former isn't.
 

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
1,876
Canada
It depends. Certain genres are a lot less plentiful (3D platformers, arcade racers, rhythm games). Polish has probably improved across the board. Dev times have gone up but so have the number of developers making games.
Polish I think is a mixed bag. Patches having become a thing / standard I think has lowered the floor and raised the ceiling on quality, it's more common to see stuff come out a total mess but also more common for a game to eventually end up in a stable state. That's for consoles, at least, PC honestly has a much longer tradition of patches and broken launches lol.
 

Leancarp900

Member
Feb 13, 2023
616
When you account for indies and not just AAA games, nah.

Going only by AAA games, probably, but we are also getting less AAA games in general I'd say.
 

Farlander

Game Designer
Verified
Sep 29, 2021
348
There's a lot of factors to consider here.

1. It was much easier to be 'genre-defining' back in those days. Here's a direct quote from one Ocarina of Time review.

For instance, when a bat is about to get you…that tune comes on "dumddududududu."

People were just excited that music was changing not only with location, but action as well. Now for people to praise dynamic music it has to be some insanely complex system depending on player actions etc.

2. "If one chooses a game from that period there's a high chance it will be genre-defining" is quite frankly somewhat of a misconception. You're not choosing a game from that period, you're choosing from one of the BEST games from that period that stayed in 'history' due to being so big and important. But if you actually go to a video game database and choose a random game from that period, the chance it was genre-defining is insanely small (don't get me wrong, doesn't mean it will be bad... though there's a very big chance it will be bad).

In other words, think less of Half-Life and StarCraft, think more of The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, Black, The Getaway, SpyHunter (all of which are good games mind you, I specifically chose these as some of example of best-sellers of the time that most people are unlikely going to call genre-defining or GOATs or even remember when discussing that era, and there's tons of titles like that which are not even best-sellers, and that is if we don't go into the huge amount of games of regrettably poor quality that were released in that era).

3. The time of constant innovation is over, the time of finetuning our craft is upon us, but... people don't really appreciate craft THAT much. Not yet at least. When I played Ghost of Tsushima several years ago I was in awe because it was one of the best open-world games I have ever played in my LIFE. And I played TONS of open-world games. It might not be Breath of the Wild or something, but you would be hard-pressed to find an open-world title with combat, stealth, world-design, connection between character/story/fantasy/progression, and a lot of other elements done as amazingly as in Ghost of Tsushima. The craft of this game is truly fantastic, so many smart decisions including very little details like the sound of enemy yelling after noticing you not propagating until a second or two in which means you can still keep your stealth if you manage to immediately kill the person who noticed you. *Chef's kiss*. Tons of other open-world games with stealth miss those kinds of details that when combined form a truly stellar experience.

And yet, since so many reviewers were lowering the score because the game wasn't innovative enough on a large scale, on Metacritic it has a rating of 83. Which puts it lower than a game like Assassin's Creed III where the combat system is very simplistic (but looks amazing not going to lie), stealth is literally broken (Jagers psychically detecting you from beyond the walls, not being able to hide in bushes if a guard notices you even for a milisecond, etc.) and tons of 'content' is just 'go here and interact with/kill this random dude'. (Not to diminish AC3's value in terms of pushing a lot of tech forward which was very impressive, plus there are other advantages/good things it has)

So.... TL:DR - yeah, definitely a myth.
 

player23

Member
Mar 12, 2022
279
I don't have a yes/no answer really, just wouldn't know where to start calculating this. But innovation goes a long way to a masterpiece, and is maybe an essential ingredient. But as time goes on it gets harder to innovate as someone has already done that cool idea you just came up with! Then chasing innovation is a double-edged sword - are you sacrificing solid and fun gameplay in a tried and tested formula and instead chasing an innovation that might end up being not fun? Nostalgia plays a big role too of course, but if I pit my fav game from say the 90s against my fav recent games then I find gaming is in a great state from a quality point of view, and quantity is of course insane now where I'm in a constant state of FOMO from everything I miss. My gut feeling is that games are only getting better, and I think decoupling nostalgia from such comparisons is impossible really.
 

Nephilim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,398
More masterpieces.

But most and for all, 95% of games released day are at least good, whatever your preferences are.
The baseline of quality is very high imo.
 

Radnom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,049
In thirty years people will be making forum threads saying "they don't make 'em like they used to" and they'll be wrong then, too.


1998 has games like Half-Life, StarCraft, MGS, Tekken 3, Zelda: OoT, Grim Fandango, RE2, Thief, Baldur's Gate. Even a single one of them would be instant GOTY in 2024 (of course modernized way haha).
I totally disagree with this! The fact that you need a "modernised" clarification kinda proves it imo because that's basically saying "a new game". Even then, the pretty extreme fresh coat of paint 'Black Mesa' put on H-L to modernise it would have won it GotY.


I suppose you could make the argument that there are fewer masterpieces as in "games that stand head and shoulders above the rest", but only because the quality bar is so much higher. Games that come out are competing with every game made up until their release, and thousands of games release every year, so there's far more competition. Half-Life 1 was a 'masterpiece' because it was so much better than its peers. But it doesn't compete with the wealth of FPS games released in the meantime.

Compare this decade to the previous, or the one before that, or before that, the games today are better.


The only way we'll really know the 'masterpieces' of this gen is looking back in another 20 years when they're the games that we remember fondly, when we can see their ripple effects across the industry, when we have deep nostalgia for them and have our rose-tinted glasses on.
 

bob1001

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 7, 2020
1,612
Probably about the same. The difference is that when gaming was in its relative infancy the masterpieces would create/change genres.

We get masterpieces but they don't influence other games to the same degree they used to. Doesn't mean they're worse, but they'll be perceived differently.
 

dskzero

Member
Oct 30, 2019
3,417
Honestly? I think yes. This generation has been littered with remakes and sequels, anyway.

There are a few masterpieces like Returnal, Alan Wake 2 and indie darlings like Balatro though.
 

Bede-x

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,114
Seriously. It's more like now, we have 1 100-hour masterpiece and 5 20-hour masterpieces and 20 5-hour masterpieces, and also this happens every single month of the year.

Yeah, there are so many great games released now that noone can really know them all. We have far more releases and far more masterpieces today, it's only AAA that's lacking.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,931
There are more games being released than it is probably possible for a single human being to play if you consider all the platforms.

I think if you are into single player games on consoles from traditional gaming companies we are getting less of those than we used to. Also the overall quality of games is higher than it's ever been. Even the worst game released on a console is still perfectly playable and generally pretty high quality. I think in part because of that it is harder to stand out than it was in prior generations. Also in many mainstream large scale AAA single player games it's actually kind of hard to experience all of the content in a game. You could play Elden Ring for 10 hours and not really see that much of the game.

If a masterpiece is a generational leap in gaming like experiencing MGS1 or Half Life for the first time we are getting less of those. If a masterpiece is a tightly crafted game that expertly does what it intended then we are probably getting more of them than we used to.
 

oneils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,159
Ottawa Canada
I haven't played or finished most of the games that people around here consider to be masterpieces. So whether there are more or not is not something I pay attention to, really.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,017
United Kingdom
Feels like less overall just because games are taking longer to make these days. Doesn't mean we aren't getting a load of really great games but those really special masterpiece games don't come around all that often anyway. I think FFVII Rebirth is this gens big AAA masterpiece, that game really is something special.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
12,126
More amazing games, less genre defining singular moments, which is almost to be expected.

Also it feels like it might get worse.
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,928
We are getting the same amount,

It just FEELS like less because we have more masterpiece/Seminal/Historic games to judge them against.

It also helps qualify those "masterpieces" from previous generations too. Was that "best ever, 10/10, utter masterpiece" truly a masterpiece or was it just hype.