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X68k

Member
Oct 25, 2017
88
Now AoD is absolutely as bad as everything says, but I still think it's required playing for Core fans, if only to get a hint of what could have been if Eidos didn't so thoroughly screw them over. Its definitely got some fascinating ideas buried beneath the bugs and half-finished mechanics.

Play the PS2 version if possible
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
Shadow of the Tomb Raider has almost no combat in it. Honestly it feels like they overreacted to criticisms of the last two games. In the first dozen hours there are like two real combat encounters (and a couple of tiny combat encounters).

And it's linear AF. The combat helped break that up in the previous 2 games
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,789
Is it time for a AoD LTTP lol?
I'd suggest you replay Sonic 06 again than bother with Angel of Darkness.
I very much consider Angel of Darkness to be the Sonic 06 of Tomb Raider.

Not as bad as everyone makes it out to be!

Won't make a dedicated thread for it but when I get to AOD I'll put my thoughts in the Tomb Raider series thread. Gonna be a while though I'm only up to Offshore Rig of TR2.
 
OP
OP
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,630
Woah, you're playing Core TR for the first time in 2018 and having fun?!

The sequels are gonna blow your damn mind. The original Tomb Raider was always a sort of average game, if you judge it solely on gameplay. The sequels are all amazing though: 2 is probably 'the best', and is the people's favourite, 3 is good, but a step back, Last Revelation is great, even though it seems like it shouldn't be, and Chronicles is probably the actual best, but it's more of the same but super polished after 3 previous sequels to TR that were effectively more of the same but better, so series fatigue kicked in.
To be fair, I enjoy games with unorthodox controls and interesting mechanics, and games that use controls and design in unique ways. Hell, one of my favorite indie games of all time is the super-divisive Rain World and that game is "depowerment fantasy" by the dev's own admission, wholly designed to make you feel like weak and vulnerable prey

So a platformer that's has a very deliberate style of movement and challenges you to consider each step with the exact precision, similar to how Into The Breach gives you exact knowledge for turn-based strategy, is totally something I can get into. I love Super Meat Boy and N and Inside, but this is so unique compared to any other platformer I've played
 
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Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
Oh come on dude. Don't just skip Angel of Darkness. I'm replaying the whole series as well and I'm not skipping it!

The only time I played Angel of Darkness, the game practically skipped itself. Every level starting at some point, Lara would melt and load into the next. The game is unplayable, and I didn't even hate what I'd played before that started to happen.
 

BlacJack

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,021
I like the new trilogy for what it is, but the sprawling tomb design of the original really shines in contrast to Shadow's tombs, especially with the freedom of movement you have in the older game.

It's really the latter that is key. The new trilogy had some decent tombs but none of them felt grand because of how the controls work. You aren't solving puzzles so much anymore as you are simply looking for graphical cues that let's you move where you are supposed to move. There is only one right way.

The originals we're much more freeform, so when you figured out how to open a door it felt really cool. I just wish a dev would combine the modern aiming/shooting/graphics with old school gameplay like that. You combine the right aspects of the new and old and you have a great game imo.
 

KalBalboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,951
Massachusetts
I just bought this on a PSN sale for 80-something cents. I haven't played one of these games since the PS2 days.

I'm surprised at how much fun I had. I put in a good 2 hours and was really into the sense of 3D discovery.
 
Oct 27, 2017
356
The grid system was amazing. I wouldn't say it's necessarily better than the way every other game operates but it definitely worked for Tomb Raider and I'm glad it exists and was executed so well. Especially in 1996 when most developers had no idea what they were doing working with 3D space.

That Richard Moss explanation is very well put, as is the OP. Good stuff. Modern Tomb Raider is missing so much more than the puzzles of the old games. The deliberate nature of every step Lara took, and the dire consequences of a single misstep are sorely missed. It kept the stakes sky high without necessitating brutal murders and a staggering bodycount.
 

II JumPeR I

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,770
Germany
I wish Square would just port this old TR games to the current consoles. 20-30 bucks collection. Would buy it ASAP
And the tank controls still work pretty well today.
 
OP
OP
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,630
Yes and I stand by it. Sit a modern gamer who never played the TR games before 2013 (or 2006 like me) and make them try the original and see how fast they get bored.

TR 1996 is unplayable for today's standards unless you played it or were familiar with gaming back then. And no Era is not an appropriate metric at all.
Controls are defined by their intent and by the design of the game in which they're implemented. The notion that "by today's standards" is what defines good gameplay is a flawed one, and is certainly no valid criticism for how or why the gameplay is bad. Such a notion implies that age alone is what makes controls or design outdated or bad or "unplayable" without considering the context of the game design that those controls exist to serve. By the metric of "by today's standards", text adventures, turn-based games, Tetris, Chess, and Go should all be unplayable today too.

I'm telling you as a modern gamer who never played a Tomb Raider game before 2013 that the classic Tomb Raider design is really well done and the controls are quite intuitive. The controls are as intrinsically integrated into the design of the game as "the jump" is in a Mario game.

If you can, can you elaborate why you feel the game is unplayable, beyond just "I found it boring"?
 
OP
OP
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,630
Uncharted, the new Tomb Raider, etc capture that classic cinematic fantasy of exploring ancient ruins and tombs through the atmosphere and visuals and scale, but classic Tomb Raider also does it through controls.

Much like an adventurer carefully creeping through an ancient unknown tomb, watching their step, making desperate leaps onto crumbling structures, your traversal in Tomb Raider mirrors that cautious deliberate approach. I like games that can capture the essence of a situation or of roleplaying as a character through controls and gameplay. See Brothers for how its dual analog control scheme uses gameplay as a means of storytelling
 

Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,849
The Hundred Acre Wood
Haha, this thread takes me back.

The first game definitely feels like a game where they said, "how do we do 3D games with 2D controls?" The original PlayStation controller really wouldn't have worked for a Mario-style platformer in the first place. Going with the grid was the logical decision.

I really enjoyed the first two games a lot. The methodical nature of it felt almost meditative. I loved Mario 64 and this game for opposite reasons. The way Mario 64 plays allows the player to be expressive through play. You get a strong sense of who the player is by how they control Mario. In Tomb Raider it's a much more designed experience, less about the fun of expression and more about the thrill of executing plans and the tension that comes with it.
 

tmkn

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
348
the simple lighting at the time also helped discovery, adjacent surfaces all had the same lighting despite having different angles, very useful to hide entrances
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,990
It is like RE4, it takes time to get used to it and it will become one of the best games ever after you learn how to play it.

Or not, since it's kind of terrible and always was. I played TR1 on launch day and though I did finish it, I never bothered with the series again. It astounds me that people praise it to this day. Nostalgia goggles are thick and durable, I guess. It was an ugly, clunky, blocky slog that has only gotten worse over time. I like what they were trying to do, but they never achieved it, IMO.
 
OP
OP
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,630
Or not, since it's kind of terrible and always was. I played TR1 on launch day and though I did finish it, I never bothered with the series again. It astounds me that people praise it to this day. Nostalgia goggles are thick and durable, I guess. It was an ugly, clunky, blocky slog that has only gotten worse over time. I like what they were trying to do, but they never achieved it, IMO.
Doesn't have anything to do with nostalgia goggles. I'm playing the game(s) now for the first time and comparing their gameplay to current games and platformers

Have you actually read or watched discussions about the game design and gameplay? There's a reason why the grid system and platforming style is still praised today and it's not because of nostalgia
 
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Bioshocker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,202
Sweden
Tomb Raider was amazing at the time. I remember playing it on my Saturn, in awe. I felt the heights in my stomach when jumping from platform to platform.
 

Manu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,191
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Or not, since it's kind of terrible and always was. I played TR1 on launch day and though I did finish it, I never bothered with the series again. It astounds me that people praise it to this day. Nostalgia goggles are thick and durable, I guess. It was an ugly, clunky, blocky slog that has only gotten worse over time. I like what they were trying to do, but they never achieved it, IMO.
So people who liked it even in 1996 on release only liked it due to nostalgia? How does that work, exactly?
 

MrCunningham

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
1,372
Why not just play the Anniversary edition?

The original Tomb Raider is a cinematic 3D platformer in every sense of the word. It was designed very specially with d-pad controls and has a whole feel of its own that just aren't present in modernized 3D platformers.

Anniversary Edition is a perfectly fine game and it is worth playing, but it also plays like a standard modern-ish 3D platformer. The game maps were all re-envisioned with the different control scheme too. It was what people wanted to see at the time for a Tomb Raider remake. But it does not play like anything from the original series.The Remake and original exist in two different sub genres.

The OG Tomb Raider is still one of my favorite 3D platformers to this day.

It kind of reminds me of the Oddworld remake, where the designers changed the control scheme to a standard 2D platformer style from the original 2D cinematic platformer system that was in the original game. It really annoyed me.
 
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Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,331
My appreciation of Tomb Raider 1 has gone up vasty over the years. I really didn't like it back in the day but as I got older I gained a greater appreciation for titles that do things differently and I'm more pacient now. So I gave it another go and I loved my more recent playthrough because you just don't get much like it anymore. The level design is top notch and the grid system works great for challenging but fair platforming.

It can't be nostalgia for me as my opinion has gone in reverse.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,962
Tomb Raider 1 is the best TR ever made imo.
I played the first three games as a kid and I was pretty sure back then that the order was TR1 > TR3 > TR2. I replayed them last year and my opinion has now changed and I now feel it's TR2 > TR1 > TR3.

Tomb Raider 2 is incredible. The difficulty level is just right and the locations are varied and interesting. Tomb Raider 3 is a great game too but it's really, really fucking difficult to the point where it actively hinders the experience.

Tomb Raider 1 is still wonderful. A trailblazing game with an incredible atmosphere.
 

Lowrys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,446
London
Of all the possible evolutionary paths game design could have taken, highly technical and complex traversal mechanics is the one I am most disappointed with ending up on the wrong side of history. For various reasons (not reasons that are necessarily wrong, mind you), people have universally decided that the act of moving your character and navigating environments should always be vague and unintrusive, never having a learning curve or a level of complexity greater than 'push in the direction you want to go.'
Agreed. But not quite universal, thanks to Insomniac.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,481
United Kingdom
TR1 has such great controls. People who say they're clunky are just lazy and/or stupid.

I love the precision. I love needing to take half steps. I love needing to grab ledges. I love knowing that if you fucked a jump up, it's because you didn't take one step enough, or jumped at slightly the wrong angle.

The only legitimate complaint about TR1 is the camera, which is dogshit.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
As someone who didn't play a TR game until Crystal Dynamics was involved I can very safely tell you TR the original does not remain an innovative platformers in 2018. Going back to the 1996 original without nostalgic goggles is a horrible experience. For its time it was a watershed moment but in 2018 that game is unplayable for new players.
It really comes down to automated platforming versus one that requires patience and skill. It's a problem these specific types of games haven't really solved. I can understand why some folks might find the originals clunky but they require a lot from the player in order to succeed and simply climbing a tall structure can be quite thrilling once you get the hang of it.

In the modern games, climbing is basically busy work - there is no skill involved and no real challenge. It's just empty space between puzzles and combat. I'd like to see some sort of middle-ground solution.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
It really comes down to automated platforming versus one that requires patience and skill. It's a problem these specific types of games haven't really solved. I can understand why some folks might find the originals clunky but they require a lot from the player in order to succeed and simply climbing a tall structure can be quite thrilling once you get the hang of it.

In the modern games, climbing is basically busy work - there is no skill involved and no real challenge. It's just empty space between puzzles and combat. I'd like to see some sort of middle-ground solution.
Platforming that isn't automated and that requires skill can exist without grids and tank controls from an era before analog sticks were a thing. Think more Super Mario 64-style platforming rather than, say, Uncharted.
 

RefreshZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
474
I agree - traversal that requires skill, patience, planning, effort is > than automated tourism. But then I accept they serve two different types of game.

I absolutely loved Tomb Raider, played it to death on Saturn and then later on PS. The first game remains a revelation in the sense of isolation and true exploring you felt like you were undertaking. The later games took some of this away by having gun toting bad guys buried deep in some chamber that took you an hour of sweaty palmed leaping to get to. And speaking of sweaty palms this game (and Jumping Flash comes to mind), seriously got the heart racing at times.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
I played 2 and 3 back then on PC. Liked them but I felt the die and retry got annoying. 2 was way too hard for me so I gave up maybe halfway through the game. The China levels are absurdly insane, I remember using cheat codes to try them.
3 was a bit better balanced but still a lot of die and retry. Also that cheap segment when they take all your weapons completely fucking you if you do it last :<
I gave up on the final boss of 3, shit was intimidating and the controls were too bad for me.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
Platforming that isn't automated and that requires skill can exist without grids and tank controls from an era before analog sticks were a thing. Think more Super Mario 64-style platforming rather than, say, Uncharted.
Absolutely it can but that's not how Tomb Raider and Uncharted work. Mario style platforming would look weird with a realistic human, I think.

Tomb Raider isn't about platforming so much as climbing.
 

Deleted member 2595

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,475
It always felt to me like a 3D version of the Prince of Persia school of platforming, along with Abe's Odyssey etc.

That is, movement made clunky to a nonsensical extent, yet gelling with the challenges and gameplay beautifully

A total classic
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,975
I'm doing 1, 2, 3, Last Revelation, and Chronicles. Then Anniversary, Legend, and Underworld
I'm so jealous of you right now. 1-5 are all great in their own ways, but especially 2, and a little less so 5 cos of the shorter length and a couple gamesave glitches.

Make sure you get a hold of the "Gold" level packs especially TRIII Gold — The Lost Artifact.

Ever since the 3DS came out, I've been dreaming of a new old-style Tomb Raider game... massive interwoven puzzle platforming tombs and dungeons with the same grid style you speak of.

"NEW Tomb Raider"
 

GobHoblin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
464
This is my kinda thread.

Would love to see a proper spiritual successor to Tomb Raider 1 that captured that feel.
 

ResidentDante

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,076
Oslo, Norway
Did you reach this part?
VY3RxZc.jpg

This song should have played right after entering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfzszoM8uN0&feature=youtu.be
The feels! The music score in TR1 was so key to atmosphere, suspense and tension really built up even higher with it.
 

Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
Absolutely it can but that's not how Tomb Raider and Uncharted work. Mario style platforming would look weird with a realistic human, I think.

Tomb Raider isn't about platforming so much as climbing.
Well, at the time it was new so it felt like it needed some skill even if it was way slower paced than cute platformers. I guess a lot like Prince of Persia or Oddworld style platformers were also slower paced than Mario. Cinematic platformers I think they called those, Flashback, Heart of Darkness, Another World...

But yeah like when you had to do tricky for the time things like grab on a ledge, pull up, jump forward or sideways, slide down a thing, jump at the right time, hang on, etc in sequence like that or whatever, maybe while timing the whole thing to bypass traps or target moving environmental elements. And at times you could optimize your movements and use backwards jumps/rolls instead of turning around slowly and running and climbing somewhere etc to make the whole process speedier and smoother, sometimes doing that could even be required because of timed triggers or whatever, although I don't think it ever got too strict.

Anyway, they could update it to allow for more skill too, rather than less. I really enjoyed the whole moveset except when they added clunky and slow even for the time things like needing to equip and throw flares, or the dumb looking ladder climbing and crouched moving in later entries with Lara awkwardly on all fours... I guess they could also take inspiration from the Sands of Time style Prince of Persia games, sans the supernatural abilities. Those felt like the platforming needed skill also, combining that with Lara's earlier moveset style (and precision as a must, Sands of Time was great but it could feel a little loose!) could maybe work out.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,880
Glad you're enjoying one of the greatest series of games ever created. Especially the first game.

If you finish the classics and find yourself wanting more, head over to TRLE.net and grab a few mods.

Here's a few that I have played and can recommend,

Ancient Artifact
Ancient Artifact II
Himalayan Mysteries
Jade Empire
Tomb Raider Redemption
Pearl of Kojada
Tomb Raider Requiem
 

WyLD iNk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,238
Here, duh.
The first two are perrenially replayable for me, and I don't understand criticisms of the controls in the slightest. They're deliberate and they're practically perfect in each of the first five games - given both the level designs and sequentially expanding movesets. Unmatched atmosphere that even Anniversary failed to replicate, much less improve upon.

AztecComplex's assertion that they're unplayable to anybody without the aid of nostalgia was already handily disproven to me earlier this year when my 17 year old son gave the original a spin for the first time. Once he understood how the movement facilitated the levels, he was a natural. It was really entertaining to watch from my point, seeing as I do have immense nostalgia for the series, but that is backed up by an incredible appreciation for what the games did back then and how startlingly unique they feel today. He had no complaints.

I think you either understand them or you don't.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Of all the possible evolutionary paths game design could have taken, highly technical and complex traversal mechanics is the one I am most disappointed with ending up on the wrong side of history. For various reasons (not reasons that are necessarily wrong, mind you), people have universally decided that the act of moving your character and navigating environments should always be vague and unintrusive, never having a learning curve or a level of complexity greater than 'push in the direction you want to go.'
One of the best ones I found once was this Attack on Titan fangame that ran in a browser where you controlled each 3D gear cable independently.
In the modern games, climbing is basically busy work - there is no skill involved and no real challenge. It's just empty space between puzzles and combat. I'd like to see some sort of middle-ground solution.
Breath of the Wild climbing actually has skill involved with finding the spots where you can stand up to recover your stamina; even the spots where you start to slip after a moment are still valid if you can do it repeatedly. You can cheese it with stamina potions but you also don't need to. Also jumping is normally an inefficient way of climbing but finding the right rhythm between jumping and slow climbing lets you climb in the rain.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
Platforming that isn't automated and that requires skill can exist without grids and tank controls from an era before analog sticks were a thing. Think more Super Mario 64-style platforming rather than, say, Uncharted.
I think the Prince of Persia games that started with Sand of Time are good examples.

No, Sands of Time is a fun game but it actively simplifies any challenge jumping might have; it's like Mario Sunshine, the next step after Mario 64, where designers tried to ease how punishing jumping and climbing could be.

We were just talking about Tomb Raider and how atmospheric it was, and I'm sure part of it was due its reliance on the player to navigate adequately. You knew you failed when you rushed or simply didn't procure a way to walk through the field with Lara's acrobatics. Even if it looked weird to see "someone" to move perenially steady.

Prince of Persia: Sands of Time is more akin to Crystal Dynamics' proposal for the series, where you push forward the player in detriment of a concise set of rules, providing fun for most players, and a more natural look for almost life-like moving people.

Not that one proposal is better than the other; but we're celebrating the former because grids and tank controls can exist. See Roblox, see Minecraft, turn-based titles as OP said; it's not like players are particulary adverse if it fits the premise of the game.
In an era where d-pads and keyboards are still a thing: those kind of controls are still enjoyable, when they are contextualized in the right place, like original Tomb Raider were, even if we found they are now liked by a niche.
 
OP
OP
More_Badass

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,630
Platforming that isn't automated and that requires skill can exist without grids and tank controls from an era before analog sticks were a thing. Think more Super Mario 64-style platforming rather than, say, Uncharted.
I think the Prince of Persia games that started with Sand of Time are good examples.
Mario 64, Sands of Time, Uncharted all fall under the same umbrella. They aren't revolving around the same kind of skill and gameplay as Tomb Raider.

In those games, the timing of your movement is where the challenge comes in. You don't really have to think about how you move, but rather when you move. Getting through a gauntlet of traps and walls in Sands of Time is a matter of timing jumps, walls runs, etc. Same with Uncharted; the platforming is about timing your runs and leaps.

Mario is more freeform but also very much about timing movement with powers or abilities

The skill and challenge in Tomb Raider comes not from timing button presses like in Mario or Sands of Time or Uncharted - that fluid rhythm and flow inherent to that kind of platforming - but from figuring out how to use your movement toolset to traverse through an environment

By contrast, the platforming in Tomb Raider is slow and technical. Timing is important to dodge traps but how you move is even more so. Leaping a gap in Sands of Time and Uncharted is a matter of timing a button press at the end of the platform. Leaping a gap in Tomb Raider is stepping back two steps exactly or doing a hop back so you have the distance to run up for the jump. There's no timing involving in the actual act of the leap, because you will always jump after three steps forward. It's deciding if a standing jump, running jump, or side jump is the best way to reach a ledge or clear a gap based on distance and your position.
 
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CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,224
Mario 64, Sands of Time, Uncharted all fall under the same umbrella. They aren't revolving the same kind of skill and gameplay as Tomb Raider.

In those games, the timing of your movement is where the challenge comes in. You don't really have to think about how you move, but rather when you move. Getting through a gauntlet of traps and walls in Sands of Time is a matter of timing jumps, walls runs, etc. Same with Uncharted; the platforming is about timing your runs and leaps.

Mario is more freeform but also very much about timing movement with powers or abilities

The skill and challenge in Tomb Raider comes not from timing button presses like in Mario or Sands of Time or Uncharted - that fluid rhythm and flow inherent to that kind of platforming - but from figuring out how to use movement toolset to traverse through an environment

By contrast, the platforming in Tomb Raider is slow and technical. Timing is important to dodge traps but how you move is even more so. Leaping a gap in Sands of Time and Uncharted is a matter of timing a button press at the end of the platform. Leaping a gap in Tomb Raider is stepping back two steps exactly or doing a hop back so you have the distance to run up for the jump. There's no timing involving in the actual act of the leap, because you will always jump after three steps forward. It's deciding if a standing jump, running jump, or side jump is the best way to reach a ledge or clear a gap based on distance and your position.

Exactly. If you miss a jump in PoP 2003, Uncharted, or modern TRs then there is no reason to retry. It just wasn't meant to be. In OG TR missing a jump may be an indication that they player did something wrong in executing the jump.

Which makes me think that it would be interesting to see a game use OG TR controls but use the Sands of Time rewind mechanic. The rewind was novel at the time but really isn't needed anymore because it's pretty hard to actually fail. A rewind system in TR, though, might be a reasonable compromise to allow for more complex moves while minimizing player frustration.
 
Dec 6, 2017
11,008
US
Regarding there being less, or barely any, tombs in TRII and TRIII as a negative, I don't really agree.

The core TR experience of exploration perilous, atmospheric and isolated locations is still there and that's why it never bothered me. TRII does have too much crappy human combat but honestly, it feels like a minor bump in the road of an otherwise truly fantastic game. In short, they're more like slight annoyances here and there and it's not that frequent. They really didn't think enemies suddenly being able to shoot a good bit of the time through seeing how for the most part you basically have to take damage in a combat encounter.

Anyway, I put another two hours into TRIII last night and I'm not sure how much longer I can handle its incessant fetish with extreme difficulty and gotcha moments despite the amazing level design. It's brutal, really.

PS: The opera house stage in TRII is fucking amazing. That shit could have public toilet tile textures and it would be awesome.
 
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the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,263
Platforming that isn't automated and that requires skill can exist without grids and tank controls from an era before analog sticks were a thing. Think more Super Mario 64-style platforming rather than, say, Uncharted.

It is interesting that no "realistic" or "cinematic" game has attempted Mario 64-style platforming 3d platforming. I'm guessing that the physics and level design required to make it fun just look too "off" in a realistic setting. It's a shame because 3d action games as an entire genre are in desperate need of a challenge mechanic beyond combat.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Fighting is interesting. Without aiming or ammo it's really more about managing your facing and movement at the same time. Also with shooting being completely divorced from movement you can do actually cinematic shit like pulling out your guns and firing while backflipping through the air, except it's not a scripted thing from triggering some context sensitive action.