Many Turks Can’t Afford Bread, and Bakers Can’t Afford to Make It (Inflation has hit Turkey badly)

entremet · Dec 17, 2021

Erdogan is also making it worse since he controls economic policy.

Turkish central bank cuts rates, sending lira to record low

Inflation in the country of 84 million is now at more than 21% and has climbed steadily as President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has refused to raise rates.

www.cnbc.com

Many Turks Can’t Afford Bread, and Bakers Can’t Afford to Make It (Published 2021)

Squeezed by rising costs, price controls and plunging sales, bakers warn of ruin, while their impoverished former customers line up for government-supplied loaves.

www.nytimes.com

ISTANBUL — A line of glum-faced people wrapped up against the rain stood along the street outside a government bread bank in a suburb of Istanbul.

"People cannot manage," said Sengul Essen, 57. "I worked 21 years as a cleaner at the university and now I am waiting in a bread queue."

Turks are grappling with soaring inflation, watching prices rise daily as the lira has plunged against the dollar and their salaries and pensions no longer cover even the staples of life. Bread lines have started to appear in neighborhoods as growing numbers of people are turning to cheap, government-issued bread to fill their tables.

On a cold, wet afternoon this week, the mood in the bread line was bleak. Most people did not want to be interviewed for fear of getting into trouble for criticizing the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, which frequently detains his critics. Those who spoke declined to give their names.

But as a conversation started, the grumbling grew.

An electrician stood listening. "People are in pain," he said. He said he earned 2,900 lira per month (about $207 at current rates), and his rent had just gone up to 2,000 lira. His wife was buying less of everything in her weekly shopping, he said. "I cannot make ends meet."

Food prices have soared worldwide during the pandemic, driven by supply chain disruptions, higher fuel costs, global shortages of fertilizer and other factors. But the plummeting value of Turkey's currency, down about 50 percent since February against the euro and dollar, makes the problem especially painful here.

This guy's rent is 2000 lira and his monthly take home is 2900 lira. Good God.

Pulp · Dec 17, 2021

Turkish economy has been circling for quite a while. Feel really bad for the people though. People standing in line for bread in 2021 says a lot about how fucked things are in this day and age.

krazen · Dec 17, 2021

Erdogan is making a risky play here. Yeah, authoritarian, enflaming ethnic tensions etc…easy rulebook to follow.

But when motherfuckers can't eat is when leaders end up getting stringed up quickly. Dudes playing with fire.

entremet · Dec 17, 2021

Pulp said:
Turkish economy has been circling for quite a while. Feel really bad for the people though. People standing in line for bread in 2021 says a lot about how fucked things are in this day and age.

Pretty sure that also happened in the US in the height of the pandemic as well. Food charities were overwhelmed. Modern society is very unequal.

We have chance to rebuilt society with greater safety nets, but the corporate and donor class nixxed it.

KingSnake · Dec 17, 2021

Usually populist/nationalist leaders are very bad at governing and Erdogan is just proving to be another one of the same kind. It's a pity that the people have to suffer for this.

Roobie · Dec 17, 2021

Just to give you an idea how bad it really is. Almost half of people in Turkey earn minimum wage, which is around 2900 Lira. Rent is rarely under 1000 Lira for a garbage apartment.
Now look at these prices

Migros Sanal Market: Online Market Alışverişi

Geniş ürün yelpazesi, en uygun fiyatlı ürünleri ve aynı gün teslimat fırsatıyla online market alışverişinizde Migros Sanal Market size iyi gelecek!

www.migros.com.tr

12 Lira for a quarter of a gallon, 25 Lira for a knob of butter. 1,5% of your monthly take home salary gone for a piece of butter. Imagine if you earned 2900 dollars a month and had to pay 25 bucks for butter, 40 bucks for a gallon of milk or 50 bucks for a pound of meat

Not to mention luxury goods. An iphone 13 is 20k lira. So 7 months worth of work.

I was in Istanbul 2 months ago and have no idea how people make ends meet. We went out with friends who all earn minimum wage and they all paid like 10% of their monthly salary for a simple night out with a few beers and food. And they still have to pay rent and their bills

2CL4Mars · Dec 17, 2021

KingSnake said:
Usually populist/nationalist leaders are very bad at governing and Erdogan is just proving to be another one of the same kind. It's a pity that the people have to suffer for this.

And yet it keeps on happening all over the world. How ever much I like to feel angry about a lot of people are doing it to them self.

Pulp · Dec 17, 2021

entremet said:
We have chance to rebuilt society with greater safety nets, but the corporate and donor class nixxed it.

Even in countries with safety nets, like here in Norway we have seen an increase in inequality over the last decade almost. While we may not have breadlines, we have people standing in line for firewood because a lot of people can't afford the high energy prices at the moment. Its nothing less than shameful. Our government is working on some sort of relief plan, but we'll see how good that is. Working class across borders needs to unite in this fight. There is no other solution really. Both against poverty and far-right.

Saucycarpdog · Dec 17, 2021

Fucking Biden screwing up Turkey too.

#Bidenflation

Shitposting aside, this really sucks for Turkish people. There needs to be government intervention to provide relief but I don't see Erdogan doing that.

Joni · Dec 17, 2021

Saucycarpdog said:
Shitposting aside, this really sucks for Turkish people. There needs to be government intervention to provide relief but I don't see Erdogan doing that.

His government intervention has been to make it worse. He has been controlling central bank policy to try and lower inflation in a way that raises it actually.

gdt · Dec 17, 2021

Damn I had no idea it was so bad there.

Frankie Williamson · Dec 17, 2021

Pulp said:
Even in countries with safety nets, like here in Norway we have seen an increase in inequality over the last decade almost. While we may not have breadlines, we have people standing in line for firewood because a lot of people can't afford the high energy prices at the moment. Its nothing less than shameful. Our government is working on some sort of relief plan, but we'll see how good that is. Working class across borders needs to unite in this fight. There is no other solution really. Both against poverty and far-right.

I guess there goes that myth that floats around that all Norwegians are oil rich now.

entremet · Dec 17, 2021

Joni said:
His government intervention has been to make it worse. He has been controlling central bank policy to try and lower inflation in a way that raises it actually.

It's like basic economics too and he keeps failing.

Elections will be 2023, which seems like a very long time in terms of politics.

Pulp · Dec 17, 2021

Frankie Williamson said:
I guess there goes that myth that floats around that all Norwegians are oil rich now.

Yeah, that has never been true really. We do have a pretty big welfare system, and for most people it works pretty well. If you are unemployed or low-income though, you are in for a ride from hell. We have had 8 years of conservatives running parliament, so that has made the rich people richer, and poor people poorer. We have a new government now, so hopefully things will get gradually better, but it doesn't take away all the bad shit that has been done.

johancruijff · Dec 17, 2021

Saucycarpdog said:
Fucking Biden screwing up Turkey too.

#Bidenflation

Shitposting aside, this really sucks for Turkish people. There needs to be government intervention to provide relief but I don't see Erdogan doing that.

if anything Erdogan has to stop his interventions

Cow Mengde · Dec 17, 2021

I know it sucks for the people living there, but at the same time, they voted for him.

entremet said:
It's like basic economics too and he keeps failing.

Elections will be 2023, which seems like a very long time in terms of politics.

Who's to say he can't rig it to stay in power? This guy is Trump 2.0. He has the power to do what he wants from what I understand.

El Toporo · Dec 17, 2021

Joni said:
His government intervention has been to make it worse. He has been controlling central bank policy to try and lower inflation in a way that raises it actually.

He legitimately doesn't get it, he is going against all recommendations and is actively making it worse and worse.

Perkin_Warbeck · Dec 17, 2021

They already had pretty bad inflation during the last election, right? I guess it's on a different level from the sounds of it. There just doesn't seem to be enough juice in the CHP to overtake Erdogan especially with all the government suppression.

The Albatross · Dec 17, 2021

HOW DOES BIDEN KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!?

(sorry can't help it)

Inflation in Turkey has been an issue for about as long as I've remembered, but it's seemingly gotten worse under Erdogan's control of financial policy, and during a time when most other European countries and many Asian countries weren't seeing the sort of inflation that Turkey was. Now that most industrialized countries are seeing significant inflation in 2021, Turkey was already in a weak spot.

entremet · Dec 17, 2021

The Albatross said:
HOW DOES BIDEN KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!?

(sorry can't help it)

Inflation in Turkey has been an issue for about as long as I've remembered, but it's seemingly gotten worse under Erdogan's control of financial policy, and during a time when most other European countries and many Asian countries weren't seeing the sort of inflation that Turkey was. Now that most industrialized countries are seeing significant inflation in 2021, Turkey was already in a weak spot.

I do like the US does separate fiscal policy from the passions of the electorate. I know Ron Paul hated the Fed lol

gdt · Dec 17, 2021

I also had no idea where Turkey's currency was at. 2900 lira for the month is rough in terms of wage earned.

Is that in line with it's neighbors in Europe?

LazyGradient · Dec 17, 2021

Erdogans lack of basic economics is painfully obvious in the situation here. He's going against all his advisors and the Turkish people are suffering. Hopefully something changes soon.

Oh and sorry but the Biden jokes are very unfunny and super America first. I know to each his own but still.

The Albatross · Dec 17, 2021

LazyGradient said:
Oh and sorry but the Biden jokes are very unfunny and super America first. I know to each his own but still.

You're right.

But if you come to the US and see the state of our imitation iskender, you'll see why we have to joke.

LazyGradient · Dec 17, 2021

The Albatross said:
You're right.

But if you come to the US and see the state of our imitation iskender, you'll see why we have to joke.

Yeah that's true, humor might be our only way out of some of the shit we're in

MonoStable · Dec 17, 2021

Just another example of failed social... oh wait he's far right? Blame the globalists...

Manta_Breh · Dec 17, 2021

That's sad, considering Turkey out of nowhere became the tourist destination of choice for people where I live. Saw so many posts/stories from people I have on my IG/FB going to turkey.

My uncle and his family went to turkey this past year
and this month, my cousin and his family are going to turkey.

spam musubi · Dec 17, 2021

bongowongobro said:
That's sad, considering Turkey out of nowhere became the tourist destination of choice for people where I live. Saw so many posts/stories from people I have on my IG/FB going to turkey.

My uncle and his family went to turkey this past year
and this month, my cousin and his family are going to turkey.

It's because the Turkish lira has free fallen, makes it really cheap for foreigners. And there are little to no pandemic precautions when entering the country.

entremet · Dec 17, 2021

Cow Mengde said:
I know it sucks for the people living there, but at the same time, they voted for him.

Who's to say he can't rig it to stay in power? This guy is Trump 2.0. He has the power to do what he wants from what I understand.

True. I'm not familiar with Turkish politics to comment on the possibility of that happening.

-Hyperion- · Dec 17, 2021

Erdogan has fired 3 central bank presidents in the last two years. He refuses to raise interest rates, which is the primary response to rising inflation

Why Turkey's currency crash does not worry Erdogan

Turkey's national currency has plummeted 45% against the dollar this year

www.bbc.co.uk

His whole modus operandi is "I ordered inflation to fall, why has it not obeyed me?"

Unclebenny · Dec 17, 2021

The Albatross said:
HOW DOES BIDEN KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!?

(sorry can't help it)

Inflation in Turkey has been an issue for about as long as I've remembered, but it's seemingly gotten worse under Erdogan's control of financial policy, and during a time when most other European countries and many Asian countries weren't seeing the sort of inflation that Turkey was. Now that most industrialized countries are seeing significant inflation in 2021, Turkey was already in a weak spot.

Just to provide some more detail here.

Erdogan has a famously contrary view on inflation, he believes that to counter them you need to cut interest rates, which is in direct contradiction to nearly every economist the world over. Part of this is based on his religion, there is an obscure reference in the Koran you can interpret as being against interest rates. There'e also a that general distrust of the West and there was another factor that is not coming to me right now. Some historic precedent he is basing it on or something.

Anyway, he has flirted with this multiple times over the years but has repeatedly rowed back. So he went so far as to install his son-in-law as leader of the Turkish Central Bank in 2019 before then installing someone who actually knew what they were doing in 2020. This person increased interest rates and helped ease fall in the lira.

Then in 2021 Erdogan fired him and replaced him with a stooge and also removed a bunch of other people in the bank and his cabinet who might try to convince him to change course. Result is three (four? can't remember) months of repeated interest rate cuts at a time when nearly every other country is increasing theirs.

So the lira has been having a terrible time of it for the past few years because of this volatility in policy, it's just coming to a head now.

There's also a lot of other factors, like the government's over reliance on selling off it's reserves to prop up the lira and a bunch of other factors that go over my head, honestly.

AzureSky · Dec 18, 2021

Unclebenny said:
Erdogan has a famously contrary view on inflation, he believes that to counter them you need to cut interest rates, which is in direct contradiction to nearly every economist the world over. Part of this is based on his religion, there is an obscure reference in the Koran you can interpret as being against interest rates. There'e also a that general distrust of the West and there was another factor that is not coming to me right now. Some historic precedent he is basing it on or something.

Erdogan is arguing that low interest rates will make loans cheaper and help improving the local economy, which is a fair point. 15% interest rates are pretty high if you are looking for a loan. The problem is that the situation is always more complicated than it looks and "easy" solutions often make it worse.

spineduke · Dec 18, 2021

AzureSky said:
Erdogan is arguing that low interest rates will make loans cheaper and help improving the local economy, which is a fair point. 15% interest rates are pretty high if you are looking for a loan. The problem is that the situation is always more complicated than it looks and "easy" solutions often make it worse.

Erdogan is a moron and doesn't know how to deal with fiscal policy. He's fired so many people just because his methods don't work and he just scapegoats the central bank governor each time. I'm waiting to see if Turkey finally rids itself of their little Napoleon.

Ramsay · Dec 18, 2021

Unclebenny said:
Just to provide some more detail here.

Erdogan has a famously contrary view on inflation, he believes that to counter them you need to cut interest rates, which is in direct contradiction to nearly every economist the world over. Part of this is based on his religion, there is an obscure reference in the Koran you can interpret as being against interest rates. There'e also a that general distrust of the West and there was another factor that is not coming to me right now. Some historic precedent he is basing it on or something.

Anyway, he has flirted with this multiple times over the years but has repeatedly rowed back. So he went so far as to install his son-in-law as leader of the Turkish Central Bank in 2019 before then installing someone who actually knew what they were doing in 2020. This person increased interest rates and helped ease fall in the lira.

Then in 2021 Erdogan fired him and replaced him with a stooge and also removed a bunch of other people in the bank and his cabinet who might try to convince him to change course. Result is three (four? can't remember) months of repeated interest rate cuts at a time when nearly every other country is increasing theirs.

So the lira has been having a terrible time of it for the past few years because of this volatility in policy, it's just coming to a head now.

There's also a lot of other factors, like the government's over reliance on selling off it's reserves to prop up the lira and a bunch of other factors that go over my head, honestly.

To borrow a phrase from Russian history, Erdogan is unfit to run a village post office, much less an entire country.

This is why central banks in most functioning economies are politically independent.

NekoNeko · Dec 18, 2021

bongowongobro said:
That's sad, considering Turkey out of nowhere became the tourist destination of choice for people where I live. Saw so many posts/stories from people I have on my IG/FB going to turkey.

My uncle and his family went to turkey this past year
and this month, my cousin and his family are going to turkey.

turkey is beautiful and i would love to go there but not as long as Erdogan or similiar people are at the top.

Solomon Grundy · Dec 18, 2021

bongowongobro said:
That's sad, considering Turkey out of nowhere became the tourist destination of choice for people where I live. Saw so many posts/stories from people I have on my IG/FB going to turkey.

My uncle and his family went to turkey this past year
and this month, my cousin and his family are going to turkey.

Where do you live?

Solomon Grundy · Dec 18, 2021

gdt said:
I also had no idea where Turkey's currency was at. 2900 lira for the month is rough in terms of wage earned.

Is that in line with it's neighbors in Europe?

Nowhere near.

Zojirushi · Dec 18, 2021

gdt said:
I also had no idea where Turkey's currency was at. 2900 lira for the month is rough in terms of wage earned.

Is that in line with it's neighbors in Europe?

No but some say if European Bank keep doing what they do € is gonna plummet as well.

jelly · Dec 18, 2021

Didn't know it was that bad but I read years ago that people from Turkey who don't live there primarily didn't mind Erdogan and the state of the economy because they got so much bang for their buck which helped that cretin stay in power and solidify himself because it didn't really effect them in a negative way.

Roobie · Dec 18, 2021

jelly said:
Didn't know it was that bad but I read years ago that people from Turkey who don't live there primarily didn't mind Erdogan and the state of the economy because they got so much bang for their buck which helped that cretin stay in power and solidify himself because it didn't really effect them in a negative way.

It's mostly because turkish people who emigrated to other countries were mostly from a lower class, conservative background. Exactly the clientele of Erdogan.
Imagine if half of Alabama emigrated to I don't know, Canada. Even two generations later they would probably be conservative leaning cause of their upbringing and culture.

eonden · Dec 18, 2021

Zojirushi said:
No but some say if European Bank keep doing what they do € is gonna plummet as well.

Those have been saying that for like 10 years now and hasnt even been close to happen.

SABO. · Dec 18, 2021

Cow Mengde said:
I know it sucks for the people living there, but at the same time, they voted for him.

Who's to say he can't rig it to stay in power? This guy is Trump 2.0. He has the power to do what he wants from what I understand.

your first comment doesn't align well with your 2nd...

the people don't have a choice, Erdogan has rigged it in his favour. To the extent some people unknowingly vote for the same people destroying them. Very similar to Russia and a little bit like the US.

"they voted for him" is unfair,. Not everyone voted for Trump, for example.

Unclebenny · Dec 20, 2021

AzureSky said:
Erdogan is arguing that low interest rates will make loans cheaper and help improving the local economy, which is a fair point. 15% interest rates are pretty high if you are looking for a loan. The problem is that the situation is always more complicated than it looks and "easy" solutions often make it worse.

Yeah, it's a nice idea but inflation is now so high that rent and the costs of basics has risen massively. So people can't afford the basics and that is not a good position in which to be taking out loans.

Xando · Dec 20, 2021

Turns out letting an idiot run your monetary policy is not a viable option in 2021.

Considering Lira dropped another 8% against the euro this morning it's gonna get a lot worse than better for ordinary turks

LakeEarth · Dec 20, 2021

You mean the angry far-right populist is making the country worse? The hell you say!

vpricot · Dec 20, 2021

Even when it comes down to "well they voted for him" I always try to keep in mind that for one when authoritarians are in power it seems impossible for them to resist election rigging. But also like even if people willingly choose to vote for him, yes they are responsible for their vote, but I think we don't always realize how easily malleable we are. We have squishy little meat computers in our heads.

We are so susceptible to propaganda, and our brains are not prepared for the scale at which the information age has amplified it. It's not so hard to convince large vulnerable populations to vote against their best interests. Not to say supporters are THE victims, but we are all victims of it and it's hard not to
pity these people at least a little. My heart goes out to the people suffering, and those whose voices go unheard.

kmfdmpig · Dec 20, 2021

SABO. said:
your first comment doesn't align well with your 2nd...

the people don't have a choice, Erdogan has rigged it in his favour. To the extent some people unknowingly vote for the same people destroying them. Very similar to Russia and a little bit like the US.

"they voted for him" is unfair,. Not everyone voted for Trump, for example.

Yup. Erdogan got only 53% of the vote after controlling much of the media etc.... Many people are victims of him rather than enablers of him. When Erdogan is buried in the ground the world should celebrate.

Joni · Dec 20, 2021

SABO. said:
your first comment doesn't align well with your 2nd...

the people don't have a choice, Erdogan has rigged it in his favour. To the extent some people unknowingly vote for the same people destroying them. Very similar to Russia and a little bit like the US.

"they voted for him" is unfair,. Not everyone voted for Trump, for example.

There is also a lot of people voting for him that don't live in Turkey at all, so they don't need to live with him.

entremet · Dec 20, 2021

Patterbits said:
Even when it comes down to "well they voted for him" I always try to keep in mind that for one when authoritarians are in power it seems impossible for them to resist election rigging. But also like even if people willingly choose to vote for him, yes they are responsible for their vote, but I think we don't always realize how easily malleable we are. We have squishy little meat computers in our heads.

We are so susceptible to propaganda, and our brains are not prepared for the scale at which the information age has amplified it. It's not so hard to convince large vulnerable populations to vote against their best interests. Not to say supporters are THE victims, but we are all victims of it and it's hard not to
pity these people at least a little. My heart goes out to the people suffering, and those whose voices go unheard.

It's gotten worse in the smartphone age. I know Facebook and WhatsApp groups are known spreaders of misinformation worldwide. And they cater to baser instincts like ultranationalism, racism, hypermasculinity.

This was the playbook of Brazil's current President. Another inept fool.

Dangerman1337 · Dec 29, 2021

Nureddin Nebati the Finance Ministry for Turkey is now blaming "5 families" for controlling the US Fed:

Arta · Jan 3, 2022

Currently at 36%

Many Turks Can’t Afford Bread, and Bakers Can’t Afford to Make It (Inflation has hit Turkey badly)

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