the movie literally ends with "is time to finish his training" lol
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(Original Trilogy Editor) Marcia Lucas harshly criticizes Star Wars Prequel and Sequel Trilogies
- Thread starter Fj0823
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the movie literally ends with "is time to finish his training" lol
But she's shown to be a fighter with melee skills from the jump
Because you know she learned to fight to survive.
Agreed they were enjoyable, like whoever said.. if IX was good, it wouldn't matter if there was a strict outline or not. They chose to make it consideretely bad by coming up with bollocks like Rey's parents sold her to protect her.
Han's death is obscenely nihilist. I bet Lucas hated it deep down. It just spits in the face of what SW meant to him, which ultimately was a fantasy to uplift children watching it.
Even the prequels, full of darkness as they were, treated death and misery with a light touch. Hell, even Rogue One's dour ending where everyone dies, somehow felt full of hope. Han's death is just grim and completely jarring with the other themes these movies are all about.
And then JJ doesn't even have the courage to keep Kylo a villain, desperately trying to rustle up a laughable redemption in the third movie, that rings hollow at best and is insulting at worst.
Even the prequels, full of darkness as they were, treated death and misery with a light touch. Hell, even Rogue One's dour ending where everyone dies, somehow felt full of hope. Han's death is just grim and completely jarring with the other themes these movies are all about.
And then JJ doesn't even have the courage to keep Kylo a villain, desperately trying to rustle up a laughable redemption in the third movie, that rings hollow at best and is insulting at worst.
The sequel trilogy is awful, but some of her criticisms are kinda.....weird.
TFA is the best of them in my opinion, but it's also the reason the other two suck.
It's fundamentally flawed at the deepest level.
The very setting is a huge leap from the OT that requires huge amounts of extra story to justify that the EU still hasn't covered completely, and the only way for the trilogy to not suck was to address it in the movies, which they didn't.
This is ignoring all the other problems with the writing.
The prequel trilogy at least had decent structure that was able to be built upon in the EU to put it in better context.
TFA is the best of them in my opinion, but it's also the reason the other two suck.
It's fundamentally flawed at the deepest level.
The very setting is a huge leap from the OT that requires huge amounts of extra story to justify that the EU still hasn't covered completely, and the only way for the trilogy to not suck was to address it in the movies, which they didn't.
This is ignoring all the other problems with the writing.
The prequel trilogy at least had decent structure that was able to be built upon in the EU to put it in better context.
I shouldn't even have to mention the part where he got shot by a gun that sends people flying but for some reason people always forget that.
A part of the Vader facade. Kylo was not a master. He was trained but as Snoke said, he's no Vader.
My favorite part about the Last Jedi was that they made her no one. I was like, ooo, that's really interesting actually. She's not some related force user, she's just a powerful one that's out there that hasn't been trained, but has a chance encounter with people related to one of the strongest force users.
Then... Rise of Skywalker... and it all went to shit.
Yeah the entire Jedi order being gunned down by their friends, followed by Anakin drawing his sabre on children, followed by choking padme to near death, followed by being reduced to a torso with a head that then got burnt nearly to a crisp, was a super light touch.
You don't seem to understand screenwriting, cinematic language, thematic exploration and visual tone. There's no point in conversing with you any further about this.
I feel like this is honestly a complaint that can be lodged at the entire core cast of the Sequel Trilogy too, which makes her singling out Rey extra frustrating. Nobody is well-developed. Not Rey, not Finn, and ESPECIALLY not Poe.
Or rather part of inconsistent writing.
Kylo and Snoke were NOT Sith, JJ made that clear to us during TFA time. So, the Apprentice and Master titles don't really hold. We're told in TFA, via Snoke, that he is the "Master of the Knights of Ren," as if this is something impressive. Then he's admonished in TLJ because he's just a child and not Vader. And then in TROS we're told that actually they were Sith all along, so he wasn't even a Sith Lord, just some chud apprentice.
😖
Lmao
I went to film school and have a performing arts degree but go on
Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyoooooooooooooo.
What an immediate burn.
He might as well be, he is shown to be quite strong in the force. He's no rookie. Regardless, the point of that particular comparison is that she goes up against someone far more powerful than her in her first outing when she's new to all this force stuff.
Luke by comparison still doesn't know much about the force and basically only uses it to enhance something he already was good at, which was shooting hard to hit targets accurately from a ship.
And ultimately the point of my original post was to say the original trilogy handled the explanation of the force much better than the movies afterwards where they basically changed its meaning. It went from something everyone could in theory utilize to an ability only special people could have.
honestly this scene is everything wrong about the prequels, this is supposed to be the point of no return of anakin.
but nowadays it's just a meme.
nobody takes it seriously
The above is a perfect example of why I try hard to avoid arguing credentials of "film literacy" and instead just debate over the content at hand. Because you very quickly gonna get your ass handed to you unexpectedly.
Nah, I watch a lot of first-time prequel reaction videos. Viewers take it very seriously and are practically bawling every time.
Nah, I watch a lot of first-time prequel reaction videos. Viewers take it very seriously and are practically bawling every time.
Marcia Lucas is a big part of why ANH is amazing and not total garbage. Would highly recommend The Secret History of Star Wars to learn more about the highly collaborative nature of the early trilogy development. The more George took the wheel solo, the worse the decision-making got. Also recommended to realize how the ESB twist is basically the retcon that ultimately ruined Star Wars, but that's my own scalding take and I'll see my way out 😄
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"at the end of this last one, The Last Jedi"
Is she pretending TROS doesn't exist or is this bad wording?
Is she pretending TROS doesn't exist or is this bad wording?
That's not nihilism. It's tragedy. It's downfall. It's the culmination of a three movie character study (albeit badly written) where we understand the reason and context for Anakin's actions.
Han's death was meaningless. A son killing his absent deadbeat father, an ugly retort to Return of the Jedi's more hopeful resolution. In that moment, JJ's camera is saying that faith in family is worthless, that beloved characters will not get heroic deaths, this is not Lucas's fairytale anymore, it's a dark deconstruction.
Then he shits away his convictions in TROS.
I only ever drop my education background when I'm accused of knowing nothing, I'd never use it to argue I'm any sort of expert.
Just that you know I do in fact know things lol
I can get a lot of people's criticisms of the sequels, but saying they lose Han, Luke, and Leia and therefore the creators don't get "Star Wars" is a... strange one. Of course they're not Star Wars if the definition of Star Wars is exclusively "the adventures of Han, Luke, and Leia only."
the way this was filmed it might as well have been a comedy.
i think only Anakin's mom's death managed to outdo this sequence as far as unintentional comedy goes in this whole franchise.
Critique if this series is so messy because who knows whether it's from a genuine place or a misogynistic place. And then support is the same way but reversed: genuine love or to push back against misogyny?
I doubt anyone involved knows anymore.
I doubt anyone involved knows anymore.
Without reading the greater context of the quotes or her complete thoughts on the franchise, I think a more graceful interpretation of this passage is her calling out Disney for introducing these non-white male characters to lead their films (this also extends to Finn ofc) and then shameless retreading ANH in TFA, and amateurishly trying to string a trilogy together with no clear cohesion or vision or plan. I read it more as "you introduced this female character just to get female audiences and then failed to competently give her a decent story arc"
I agree lol. Prequels are a meme bonanza thanks to Lucas. And kudos on your earlier reply to me too haha.
It's literally the cheapest look he's bad now scene possible
There's no tragedy in the PT because despite ostensibly the entire trilogy supposedly building Anakin's downfall it still ends up a hastily done last act of the last movie rush job where Anakin goes from aggressive hero to killing children and violent abusing his wife in about a blink of an eye.
i would never forget the fact that he "turned" to save Padme, and when Palpatine says "i don't know how to save her", he didnt kill him right there.
you lost everything and this dude doesn't even fulfill his part of the deal, why do you need him alive?
It looks like this thread was created in response to a years-old quote from before TROS released.
you are the one trying to bring up "credentials" tho
no you dont win anything
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I didn't accuse you of being a complete moron who clearly doesn't understand the essential building blocks of cinema
The sequel trilogies could have been so much better if they just didn't include the OT trio at all. I dont hate how they treated all of the characters (and obviously Carrie Fisher passing complicated things), but they suck up so much air from the rest of the story only to tell another flaccid story about the Skywalkers
In my mind, the payoff with Rey was destined to climax in the third movie, which hadn't come out yet whenever this quote was taken. I can understand how you could walk away from TLJ a bit undersold on her arc, given how sterile TFA is in retrospect. And I liked what RJ did with what JJ left him with.
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