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(Original Trilogy Editor) Marcia Lucas harshly criticizes Star Wars Prequel and Sequel Trilogies
- Thread starter Fj0823
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I don't disagree that the prequels and sequels suck but her reasoning is really bad. In fact the Rey and Luke stuff is the only stuff in TLJ I enjoyed it's everything else that drags it down for me.
I have a real soft spot for the originals because I loved them when I was younger and they were hugely influential but… when is everyone going to stop acting like they're untouchable, flawless masterpieces? Half of what Marcia says here could apply to those films too.
I have a real soft spot for the originals because I loved them when I was younger and they were hugely influential but… when is everyone going to stop acting like they're untouchable, flawless masterpieces? Half of what Marcia says here could apply to those films too.
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That's my read, she's saying they just said "Female lead" and stopped thinking right there.
Rey, Kylo Ren, Finn and Poe were charismatic leads that you could easily emotionally invest in and had fun interactions with each other. Rey X Kylo, Finn X Poe, Finn X Rey all had great chemistry and future movies could built upon that. That ain't easy to pull off (judging by all the failed revivals) and why I think TFA was solid beginning chapter.
Those comments are going to get used by people who hate female leads forever.
Marcia's contributions to OG cannot be understated but I also take issue that the movie was saved in the edit. There's a YouTube video floating around positing this but it ignores that George himself went uncredited as one of the editors.
Marcia's contributions to OG cannot be understated but I also take issue that the movie was saved in the edit. There's a YouTube video floating around positing this but it ignores that George himself went uncredited as one of the editors.
That's cool if it worked for you. I just personally don't think charisma alone can sell three movies, especially when there's no underlying story of any interest beneath that charisma.
That still doesn't make any sense.
Why do female characters require some special protocol to justify being female?
Overall quality of the sequel trilogy aside (7 is good, 8 is fantastic, 9 is a dumpster fire) the part about Rey is gross, and literally sounds like it was written by an alt-right incel YouTuber.
"tHey ThiNK SOme rANdom FEMALE cAn Be A jEdI??!!? ThEY doN't GEt sTAr WaRS!!!1"
Also, other than all the Palpatine nonsense that JJ threw in at the last minute, Rey is a great character. Particularly in TLJ.
"tHey ThiNK SOme rANdom FEMALE cAn Be A jEdI??!!? ThEY doN't GEt sTAr WaRS!!!1"
Also, other than all the Palpatine nonsense that JJ threw in at the last minute, Rey is a great character. Particularly in TLJ.
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Because one is criticizing that a female character exists at all... and the other one is criticizing Disney for not putting the work in and creating a well thought out female lead.
oh just like Luke's was a well thought out lead, kissing her sister and whatnot.
Oh, and one reminder. She's a great editor and her work made Star Wars work, but... that's the job of an editor. Every movie is 'saved' in the edit. There is no movie without the edit, and a first assembly cut almost never works. The edit it's the third time you 'write' the film. There is a reason why all big budget movies do reshoots these days. Because there is always stuff that comes up in the edit, making you realise some things don't work as intended, can be told in a more compelling way, etc.
What is a "well thought out female lead"?
Do you mean just a well-written lead character? Fine. Say that. You don't need to mention her gender at all.
Well, I disagree with her (except I agree with the "it sucks" assessment about Rise of Skywalker), so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's a really dumb compliant considering the only thing we know why Luke has powers is because he's a Akanakins son
I don't know. Maybe I don't get Star Wars. Maybe Star Wars is about the same small handful of characters, in a tight, 10-20 year time span, being dragged out and and proverbially beaten to death in a multimedia franchise for eternity.
This feels like a rollout for her own youtube channel lmao. She already has a baseline 100.000 subscribers with these comments.
I wasn't there, so obviously I can't state this as a matter of fact but I remember seeing a lot of interviews with people that worked on the original Star Wars and they had a general opinion that one of the reasons why the original trilogy turned out as good as it did was because there were a lot of people that challenged George's ideas. When he started making the prequels, he reused some of the ideas that had been shut down like the design for General Grievous' ship which, if I'm not mistaken, was based on the design of a classic car that George really liked. He had more authority when making the prequels and fewer people to challenge his ideas, and they believe that's why the prequels turned out the way they did.
Obviously this is just speculation on their part, so take it with a grain of salt, but given that they worked with George for a fair number of years, I tend to believe their opinion.
Regardless of that though, I don't think there's a lack of credit for George's work on Star Wars. I believe the exact opposite, that he gets most of the credit.
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Because and this is just what I think she means, she's not criticizing her for being female, her criticism is that that's the only thought that went towards her.
Think about it, without TLJ, Rey is only a collection of callbacks to the OT and nothing more. After TROS she lost everything she had going for her in TLJ and became a collection of Callbacks to the OT + Prequels.
TLJ was the only movie that fucking tried to make Rey a character beyond "Girl + OT callbacks".
You can easily say the same for characters that are just a collection of suit buzzwords like "perky" and "wide-eyed" and then nothing more goes into their characters than that.
Rey is great.
Luke got some training over a day, blinded by a helmet, and used the force to shove a bomb down a pipe.
I guess her complaint is "we didn't get 2 minutes where someone told Rey how the force works"?
There are many legitimate issues with the prequles and, to one degree or another, the sequel movies. But Rey being able to use the force isn't one of them.
Luke got some training over a day, blinded by a helmet, and used the force to shove a bomb down a pipe.
I guess her complaint is "we didn't get 2 minutes where someone told Rey how the force works"?
There are many legitimate issues with the prequles and, to one degree or another, the sequel movies. But Rey being able to use the force isn't one of them.
…We know. The point is that the quote about "female jedi" is literally indistinguishable from countless comments by alt-right youtubers.
Even putting that part aside the "We don't know how she got her powers" thing is still there and is still an idiotic complaint and it's a complaint you only ever see with Rey even though the same damn thing also applies to literally every Jedi in the franchise.
SNOKE TLJ said:
There is your explaination for 'Rey's powers' if you needed one. TLJ even made effort to explain how Rey defeated Kylo at the end of TFA.
Peeps still complaining about why Rey is so strong get some strong side eyes from me.
I appreciate her takes but the 'U don't do this to beloved characters!' kinda shows me she doesn't know what she's talking about either.
Kinda funny how people are fine with cool expansive takes on characters, including fucking em over because that's how movies and life goes, but want em to remain these pristine action figures they played with on screen.
Even generic blockbuster series heir apparent, the MCU, knows that sometimes characters gotta catch stray shots and grow, even if its about selling toys and comics
Kinda funny how people are fine with cool expansive takes on characters, including fucking em over because that's how movies and life goes, but want em to remain these pristine action figures they played with on screen.
Even generic blockbuster series heir apparent, the MCU, knows that sometimes characters gotta catch stray shots and grow, even if its about selling toys and comics
She edited the original trilogy.
She probably knows more about Star Wars than anyone on this forum.
I disagree, reads more like someone who just can't stand others working on a property that is, and understandably so, dear to her. But her idea of what makes Star Wars work, is not the one true way of looking at it. There simply is no way to define that, nor can that be defined for any piece of art. Many like the sequels and the prequels, so, what... all those who enjoy them are wrong now and everyone who worked on them don't know what the fuck is up? That's not the kind of criticism I can take seriously, with all due respect to her past work.
Also killing Han was honestly overdue and it was a fantastic moment, it was the emotional gut punch the movie needed and the scene was very well done.
Also killing Han was honestly overdue and it was a fantastic moment, it was the emotional gut punch the movie needed and the scene was very well done.
I have a lot of issues with The Force Awakens and especially Rise of Skywalker (TLJ is fantastic though), but "Rey is a woman and we don't even know where her powers come from!" and "They killed Han Solo and Luke Skywalker!" are dumb criticisms that aren't actually criticisms but just pointless fan whining.
Especially that first one. Who the fuck cares where her powers come from? Why do her powers need to come from anywhere?
Especially that first one. Who the fuck cares where her powers come from? Why do her powers need to come from anywhere?
Luke obviously gets them from his father, and that's communicated as such by Obi Wan to the audience in the first movie. We just didn't know Anakin was still alive.
Marcia's critique seems to be we don't know Rey's parentage at first so her Force abilities are suspect and thus a failing of the story.
I legit didn't know, lol. I was like "is one of George Lucas' kids going off on a tangent about the Sequel Trilogy?" - I had no idea it was his ex-wife or that she edited the OT.
I mean, she's not wrong (about the sequel trilogy at least), but since when did they explain where Luke got his powers? Or Darth Vader or Obi-Wan in the original trilogy? They don't. The best explanation for Luke is he got it from his father, but I don't think that's ever actually provided as reasoning and it also doesn't explain where Vader would've gotten them in the first place. IN FACT, one of the many complaints of Phantom Menace was it tried to "explain" the force, and people were pissed.
Why is killing Han a reason for why the sequel trilogy sucks? Because he's beloved? That's not exactly great reasoning.
I also argue that it's not about JJ not "getting" Star Wars, but more that there was no clear plan from the beginning for the sequel trilogy. Clearly, they wanted to let different directors do their own thing in each movie, meaning Rian decided to subvert some of JJ's setups in TLJ, and since Rise ended up being directed by JJ after the original director ended up not doing it, he wanted things to flow better with what his vision would've been, meaning he decided to walk back on some of Rian's ideas. It's not a matter of JJ not getting it, it's a matter of there was no plan for the trilogy and so when he got brought back to finish it up, he didn't like what Rian had done and didn't want to work around it, leading to a clear lack of planning being evident. I don't think any of the actual complaints she raised hold any real water.
I don't know, I love and think the original trilogy are some of the most important movies of all time, but these complaints seem to stem from a "The original trilogy is the peak of the franchise and only it 'gets' Star Wars", and I'm really not a fan of that type of thinking. I get she provided extremely important editing work that I'm sure is what helped the OT become as beloved as it is today, but franchises change and evolve, and Star Wars was a franchise that has been able to branch out and become whatever it wants to be because of the universe is as vast as it is, so trying to shackle different visions, different ideas, different ways of portraying Star Wars is I think the wrong way to think about Star Wars in general.
Why is killing Han a reason for why the sequel trilogy sucks? Because he's beloved? That's not exactly great reasoning.
I also argue that it's not about JJ not "getting" Star Wars, but more that there was no clear plan from the beginning for the sequel trilogy. Clearly, they wanted to let different directors do their own thing in each movie, meaning Rian decided to subvert some of JJ's setups in TLJ, and since Rise ended up being directed by JJ after the original director ended up not doing it, he wanted things to flow better with what his vision would've been, meaning he decided to walk back on some of Rian's ideas. It's not a matter of JJ not getting it, it's a matter of there was no plan for the trilogy and so when he got brought back to finish it up, he didn't like what Rian had done and didn't want to work around it, leading to a clear lack of planning being evident. I don't think any of the actual complaints she raised hold any real water.
I don't know, I love and think the original trilogy are some of the most important movies of all time, but these complaints seem to stem from a "The original trilogy is the peak of the franchise and only it 'gets' Star Wars", and I'm really not a fan of that type of thinking. I get she provided extremely important editing work that I'm sure is what helped the OT become as beloved as it is today, but franchises change and evolve, and Star Wars was a franchise that has been able to branch out and become whatever it wants to be because of the universe is as vast as it is, so trying to shackle different visions, different ideas, different ways of portraying Star Wars is I think the wrong way to think about Star Wars in general.
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There is also a bunch of people who like the original trilogy which is also bad. So why should the prequels and sequels be held to a different standard? lol
Luke didn't fight off Vader with a lightsaber in ANH though, did he? Shit, he didn't even win a fight until the third movie. He performed well in a spacecraft during the climax, which the narrative set-up earlier with his claims that it was no different than shooting womp-rats (lol).
But Rey is so capable at everything right off the bat, there's no room for growth. She can fight, fix ships, wield a lightsaber, fucking jedi mind trick people, all in her first outing! She's already peaked! I mean it was fun and all, but just bad writing. It would have been more compelling to see her fail at some stuff first, then watch her overcome challenges and get better each movie. Plus not have a garbage origin drawn on tissue paper by a naked drug-fuelled JJ. That would have been nice too.
Does she question where Luke Skywalker's Jedi powers came from? Didn't seem to have any until he met Obi Wan Kenobi.
Anyway, she's right the prequels are straight trash. Can't stand them and have only watched each once as that was more than enough.
The sequels obviously have a number of glaring problems, but they're at least better than the prequels.
Anyway, she's right the prequels are straight trash. Can't stand them and have only watched each once as that was more than enough.
The sequels obviously have a number of glaring problems, but they're at least better than the prequels.
Thinking that Disney didn't put the leg work in to have a good female character isn't the same as not wanting female characters.
Is this now when George Lucas haters turn on Marcia? Because before the narrative was that George was an idiot and ANH only came out good because she fixed everything in edit and then later bitter George erased her role in making the films.
Yeah, since ROTJ. That doesn't mean you listen to him. Lucas was smart enough back then to tell him, "no."
Yeah, since ROTJ. That doesn't mean you listen to him. Lucas was smart enough back then to tell him, "no."
but what Rey being a woman has to do with fucking anything??????
why do people keep mentioning that?
you would be okay if he was a man, and had the same backstory????
no???
then why does the fuck matter that she is a woman?!
Luke was a fucking farmer
While Rey was a literal self raised survivor living on a hell planet
Gee I wonder why she can kinda fight well
For like every other character in the series someone else can just say "the force is strong with him" and it's universally accepted but as soon as Rey is portrayed as having any natural skill or power it's all "but we MUST KNOW why she is strong or it's bad storytelling/plot holes!"
Yeah, I mean you got some subtle story telling, like how in New Hope Obi Wan shows off the mind trick and then, in Return of the Jedi Luke does it too, a simple way to show his experience.
With Rey you got her do it right away in TFA and then again in Rise of Skywalker and it's just like.... ok cool?
i guess star wars fans do empathize more with a whiny boy
if there only was a scene where kylo was trying to trick mind her, IF ONLY
She brought it up because she's accusing them of pandering, instead of wanting to tell a good story where the hero just happens to be a lady, irrespective of anything else.
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