I'm going to hope the same. I enjoy her work and what she has to say. Her MasterClass was great too.
Yeah, in her case sharing that article actually feels out of character.
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Margaret Atwood seems to be going down the JK Rowling rabbit hole
- Thread starter UnpopularBlargh
- Start date
Pretty painful, she's one of my all time favorite authors. The books currently on my desk are mostly hers.
Really hope she eventually comes around by reading people's responses and learning from them. It's just so frustrating that she fell for such a low effort take that doesn't even try to engage and immediately defended it.
Really hope she eventually comes around by reading people's responses and learning from them. It's just so frustrating that she fell for such a low effort take that doesn't even try to engage and immediately defended it.
Unfortunately people that are smart are not better at finding arguments that contradict their beliefs, but at finding more "arguments" that reinforce them.
She had a blog, and after the 2016 election she made a post about how conservatives see themselves as the ultimate victim.
I was only just starting to understand how fucked up the right wing is in the US, and that blog post really opened my eyes.
Aside from the Earthsea series, I will always be grateful to her for that.
In the great beyond, countless dead authors give thanks every day that they kicked it before social media was invented. Even the ones we KNOW were a barrel of issues.
Like, consider how Lovecraft is seen today, then realize that if he'd had Twitter his reputation would assuredly be much worse.
"Why can't we say 'woman' anymore?" has got to be the dumbest take I have ever read.
When has anyone ever stopped saying "woman?"
When has anyone ever stopped saying "woman?"
Yes, people like me who would kill to just be recognized as women, the whole fight against being perceived as male, yes we are trying to take the term we want applied to us away (while they once again act like trans men don't exist) makes sense.
Another war on Christmas, that's what this.
As for the medical stuff while the terms here are for trans men, they ignore that since trans men existing defeats a lot of their arguments, but it works for trans women too.
For instance I am middle aged and just transitioning now, so there are male part exams I have to get while living and transitioning into a woman. Do you think when I have to go get a prostate exam I want to be misgendered or treated like a man? The point of the language is purely medical and due to medicine and tech letting trans people change their bodies, leading to men with biologically female parts, and women with biologically male parts. The language is so we get respect while also getting more accurate healthcare, something we are woefully underserved on as is and gets worse in a world that calls a Pap smear "a well women check". Remove gendered language for technical medical care is what we want, not "take away the term woman and woman's rights to call themselves women."
News flash, I call myself a woman too.
Another war on Christmas, that's what this.
As for the medical stuff while the terms here are for trans men, they ignore that since trans men existing defeats a lot of their arguments, but it works for trans women too.
For instance I am middle aged and just transitioning now, so there are male part exams I have to get while living and transitioning into a woman. Do you think when I have to go get a prostate exam I want to be misgendered or treated like a man? The point of the language is purely medical and due to medicine and tech letting trans people change their bodies, leading to men with biologically female parts, and women with biologically male parts. The language is so we get respect while also getting more accurate healthcare, something we are woefully underserved on as is and gets worse in a world that calls a Pap smear "a well women check". Remove gendered language for technical medical care is what we want, not "take away the term woman and woman's rights to call themselves women."
News flash, I call myself a woman too.
There have been some weird articles recently that have set the TERF machine off. Most recently The Lancet's cover article going on about 'Bodies With Vaginas'. I don't really understand this one. Are publishers worried about upsetting the Trans community if they talk about biology and gender in the same article?
Oh ok that's good. Thought she had some terrible takes I wasn't aware of.
I think that post is saying that had she been alive now, with social media, we'd likely have seen some from her
The historical record says celebrities will always fall back on the ones buttering them up to continue ignoring any of the criticism they received, and this will drag them down the rabbit hole into writing their own TERF articles or focusing their stand-up routines on us. Given she has only defended the author since (claiming she's not a TERF... when you can easily look through her history and even the article Atwood posted itself to find evidence to the contrary - in addition to the author's history of racism) and then went back to tweeting other subjects instead without correction, this tells me she will not be reflecting on her criticism.
At least on the subject of gender neutral language, she's made these positive comments.
OP
OP
Nah. You can have your opinion. You can even say whatever you want. It's more about how to take legitimate criticism that follows. To learn and grow from it. Instead of doubling (and tripling) down.
Plus if a certain percent of the population want to be racist, sexist, lgbtphobic or hold and promote other regressive opinions it's a lot easier to filter them out as trash when they tell on themselves. Makes it easier for me, especially as someone that fits into one of those groups, to avoid wasting my time or money on someone who thinks I am subhuman.
Always wild to watch people prove again and again how there are plenty of stupid fucking smart people out there.
Hopefully someones she gives a f about reaches out to her and tries to educate her a bit and double-hopefully she's actually receptive to it. Doubtful.
Hopefully someones she gives a f about reaches out to her and tries to educate her a bit and double-hopefully she's actually receptive to it. Doubtful.
I don't think she's dumb. Education on these issues remain relatively niche, in spite of what we see in our circles.
Even with Chappelle's willful ignorance, one thing that struck me is that he evidently *just* learned what it meant to be a feminist. No wonder the gender/sex distinction was lost on him.
And here, Atwood is likely hearing "people who menstruate" and tied that (and her specific experiences) to the word "woman." To people like this, assuming they're not disingenuous, ideally we would want to present them with the info that clears up their misunderstandings.
"Do your own research" usually just leads them to articles like the one she retweeted.
Hopefully she can be course-corrected, but she may be further pushed in a negative direction unless the people around her pull her back.
Even with Chappelle's willful ignorance, one thing that struck me is that he evidently *just* learned what it meant to be a feminist. No wonder the gender/sex distinction was lost on him.
And here, Atwood is likely hearing "people who menstruate" and tied that (and her specific experiences) to the word "woman." To people like this, assuming they're not disingenuous, ideally we would want to present them with the info that clears up their misunderstandings.
"Do your own research" usually just leads them to articles like the one she retweeted.
Hopefully she can be course-corrected, but she may be further pushed in a negative direction unless the people around her pull her back.
Activism is always toxic to people unaffected by the reason there is activism in the first place.
This extreme white feminism bullshit is getting really old and what the right is using against feminism in general. But these extremists are too blinded by their hate and propaganda to see.
Yeap the spiral continues, albeit faster than expected this time.
Never expect the rich and powerful to do any honest reflection when they can always ignore their criticism and fall back on the celeb worshippers supporting them.
Never expect the rich and powerful to do any honest reflection when they can always ignore their criticism and fall back on the celeb worshippers supporting them.
I presume she started at the bottom of the rabbit hole given the themes of her most famous book.
Considering that she wrote a novel about ambisexuals in 1969 and apologised in 1986 for a perceived lack of homosexuality in that same novel, I would presume she would have been able to handle these issues more deftly than most.
Best response:
Saying you support someone's rights but want them to be quiet about it is basically the Civil rights movement all over again.
That opinion piece is basically a trans woman who considers herself "one of the good ones" regurgitating terfy talking points and claiming that cis men declaring themselves to be trans in order to hurt women is some sort of epidemic
Worth noting this opinion piece is written by a pseudonym with no other history of existing beyond this one article.
Of course this is the "research" all TERFs go for to ignore actual prominent trans voices.
*edit* I should note there is a twitter account floating around that doesn't appear to actually be linked to whoever wrote the article and is just someone making fun of the pseudonym. Something that'd be easier to identify if y'know, the writer actually had their own established presence as a person who does in fact exist.
Of course this is the "research" all TERFs go for to ignore actual prominent trans voices.
*edit* I should note there is a twitter account floating around that doesn't appear to actually be linked to whoever wrote the article and is just someone making fun of the pseudonym. Something that'd be easier to identify if y'know, the writer actually had their own established presence as a person who does in fact exist.
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Oh yeah she's with them
Not surprising , it's pretty big among somewhat older feminists (30/35+) and always gotta remember
This branch of progressives ( trans inclusive ) are small minority
Not surprising , it's pretty big among somewhat older feminists (30/35+) and always gotta remember
This branch of progressives ( trans inclusive ) are small minority
Update on the author who is in fact a real person
I'll link rather then embed to her tweet taking credit, rather avoid bloating her position than CBC & Atwood already has but it's worth confirming who Atwood is actually listening to in place of everyone else.
What really frustrated me is how Atwood just drops these shit takes that support her status quo ideals without actually engaging in anything herself, because she doesn't need to. She can just shit on trans rights and continue on her merry way leaving the rest of us to tangle with the asshats she emboldens, gaining prominence off her wilful ignorance. All the people crying out about the pain she's causing us but who does she listen to? The one "Gender Critical" trans opinion writer with zero writing history and less followers than my own non-public ass. This isn't an accident, it's searching for voices that reinforce your own beliefs so you can ignore the opposition.
I'll link rather then embed to her tweet taking credit, rather avoid bloating her position than CBC & Atwood already has but it's worth confirming who Atwood is actually listening to in place of everyone else.
What really frustrated me is how Atwood just drops these shit takes that support her status quo ideals without actually engaging in anything herself, because she doesn't need to. She can just shit on trans rights and continue on her merry way leaving the rest of us to tangle with the asshats she emboldens, gaining prominence off her wilful ignorance. All the people crying out about the pain she's causing us but who does she listen to? The one "Gender Critical" trans opinion writer with zero writing history and less followers than my own non-public ass. This isn't an accident, it's searching for voices that reinforce your own beliefs so you can ignore the opposition.
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It just goes to show that you really can't trust people at face value. We have two prominent female authors that wrote stories involving against facist entities, yet in real life, they're terrified of Transwomen fighting to be seen as human. Rebellion and the fight for rights is nothing more than a cute story for them to make money off of.
When you go around a person's timeline you get suggestions of people like them
this is what i got from this totally not tef person
When you go around a person's timeline you get suggestions of people like them
this is what i got from this totally not tef person
Fucking hell at that middle one. "I'm gay, not queer" is the exact same, self-centered "shit, what does it mean if I'm attracted to someone with a dick" mentality that self centered cis-men who resent trans women display.
Time and again, whenever we get into the arguments these people want to make, it always boils down to them being uncomfortable with just the idea of someone else's genitals.