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The Academy Award Winning Marvel Cinematic Universe

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Frostinferno

Frostinferno

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Oct 25, 2017
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Pachimari said:
Rumor:How teenage Groot and Thor will work together.
They don't have a source so take it with a grain of salt though. Would still be a cool bond.
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If true, hope it leads to Throot.

THORS-2-VAR-a681e.jpg
 
Nakenorm

Nakenorm

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,526
It's out next week already?? Man, that really snuck up on me. Cautiously optimistic
 

Deleted member 8593

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Part 2 of my MCU writeups: The Incredible Hulk. Needless to say, I'm not a huge fan of it.

Previous writeups:
Thor: Ragnarok

The Incredible Hulk

HulkMovie2ARGH13fLG.gif

You won't like me when I'm... hungry?

In 2008, when the Marvel Cinematic Universe had built its foundation with Iron Man becoming part of a bigger universe, a few weeks later another iconic Marvel character took its second swing at the big screen. Five years after Ang Lee's ambitious superhero drama, Louis Leterrier followed up with something between a sequel and a reboot. Much like the rest of the movie, it doesn't really know what it wants to be.

The film begins with an extended opening title sequence reminiscent of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2 intro. We see how the Hulk was created, how he escaped and managed to stay hidden in South America. Despite an uncanny resemblance to the 2003 film, there are some marked differences. Eric Bana and Jennifer Connelly are replaced with Edward Norton as Bruce Banner and Liv Tyler as Betty Ross, Banner's father is gone and so is some other minor stuff. It is essentially a summary of a movie that never happened. The sequence cuts between weirdly dramatic, dialogue-less flashbacks of Banner on the run and the military chasing after him, following traces of his human persona or the wake of destruction he leaves as the Hulk. Here and there we get a mention of Stark Industries or S.H.I.E.L.D., situating the movie in the larger Marvel universe. The sequence gets increasingly tense, cutting faster and faster between shots to a metronome when suddenly…

…Bruce Banner stops the metronome, drenched in sweat. We are informed that there have been 158 days since the last incident. Banner has managed to carve a life for himself somewhere in Brazil, spending his days meditating, training and helping out at a drink bottling factory. This all merely serves a cover for his search for a cure, a feat he is trying to accomplish with the ominous Mr. Blue over some makeshift chat channel. Banner is at the end of his wits, another attempt at a cure has failed and General Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross has tracked him down. After a special forces team led by Emil Blonsky (played by Tim Roth) unleashes the Hulk, Banner is forced to flee back to the US and find Mr. Blue. In the context of the MCU, The Incredible Hulk feels distinctly unique for much of its running time. Instead of the Hulk going after some Big Bad™, he is on the run. There's no reason for Banner to prove himself. His powers aren't a tool for redemption. He doesn't want to use them for the right thing. Neither are they an expression of his worthiness. Hulk's powers are the unwanted byproduct of an accident and often more a burden than a boon. And much like in the comics, the movie is at its best when it shows Banner dealing with the Hulk inside of him, just waiting to burst out. The most memorable of those scenes are those between him and Betty Ross, which serve as small glimpses into a relationship that was and could have been. Sadly, they are few and far between.

The appeal of the runaway/find a cure mashup is apparent and The Incredible Hulk borrows heavily from Bruce Jones' and John Romita Jr.'s "Return of the Monster" storyline. A problem that arises quickly with extremely powerful superheroes is that it is difficult to find a threat for them. Stories about Superman have circumvented this problem by dealing with conflicts where physical power is useless or even a detriment. For the Hulk, the conflict has often emerged from within. Grown out of the Cold War, the character has always been an expression of the relationship between anger and repression, violence in the face of powerlessness. The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde relationship of Banner and his green alter ego reflects this duality. Banner is at his most interesting when he is faced with the question of how he can be closest to his loved ones without hurting them.

Sadly, the movie fails to capitalize on its premise in almost every way. The anti-authoritarian undertones are there but are barely explored. The two primary antagonists are military type caricatures that have little motivation beyond power. Tim Roth especially seems entirely lost in a role that makes him spin around and eventually turn into a a similar monster for some body horror flavour. It's unclear what his aim is even though he constantly reminds us what he'd do if he were younger. Similarly, we get very little insight into Banner as a person. Edward Norton plays the introverted, slightly dweeby scientist - an antithesis to Tony Stark's flamboyant grandeur - as competently as any of his roles. There is an almost sheepish charm to his performance, especially in his scenes with Betty. And yet he remains unapproachable as a character. Sure, his motivation is clear but there isn't much to show us how he ticks. Why does he run away? Why does he not want to turn into the Hulk? The answers are almost assumed to be known by the audience.

The most damning failure of The Incredible Hulk is, however, its inability to commit to the story it sets out to tell. By the time Banner has supposedly found a potential cure, much of the film's momentum sizzles out. It's not entirely clear how the creative process went here. Was the final battle a studio mandated inclusion to check another box? Or was it more that the writers ran out of story to tell? Whatever the case, Emil Blonsky's transformation into the Abomination is difficult to relate to Banner. On one side we have a man who does not want the power and the burden that comes with it. On the other there is one who craves power at all costs. They clash three times physically but never ideologically. How this culminates into two monsters in slightly different shades of green beating the proverbial snot out of each other is as mystifying as it is trite.

As the final act devolves into a senseless pummelling and I mentally check out, it slowly dawns upon me where the movie went wrong. The Hulk is, inherently, a story about failure, loss and regret. Norton's Banner emotes well but his grief feels hollow. It is also quite telling that every time the film needs the Hulk to fight, it throws Betty into the middle of the conflict. Just so she can be saved and further be cemented in her undying love for Bruce. The image of a brilliant man who lost everything remains unconvincing. It's difficult to pinpoint what exactly was lost because even though we know it on a cognitive level, we fail to connect to in on an emotional level. So when Banner accepts the Hulk and is heavily implied to be in control at the end of the film, it not only feels empty, it feels like they have written themselves into a dramatic dead end. It comes to no surprise then that both Avengers films had Banner transform through mind control. By the end of The Incredible Hulk, I cannot shake the feeling that one unfinished film was forced to turn into something completely different. What could have been an interesting, albeit cynic, meta-narrative approach just remains as an ironic conclusion to this review.
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jph139

jph139

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Oct 25, 2017
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If you read up on the behind the scenes stuff for TIH, the final cut of the film is Marvel's - Ed Norton agreed to come on with the agreement he'd have a lot of leeway and creative control, and he submitted a much slower, more character centric rewrite of the script.

Some of his stuff made it into the final film (like seeding the relationship with "Mr. Blue" early in the film) but a ton was cut. There's scenes where he's got a one on one with Doc Samson, where he's in the Arctic planning on killing himself, and so on.

But Marvel was burned by the failure of the Ang Lee movie, which was similarly character focused, and wanted a more marketable HULK SMASH movie. Lots of infighting until Norton gave up and just decided to part ways with Marvel going forward (and they didn't want him back anyways). So even if a lot of the updated script was filmed, it didn't make it into the final cut of the film.

It's a "character first" movie that has a lot of "character first" scenes on the cutting room floor. Still one of my favorites, though, even if it's not cohesive enough to truly be great. Maybe not even enough to be good.
 

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I read about the cut stuff and Norton's rewrites etc. but didn't dig deep enough. I can absolutely see how that happened because, as I said, the first two thirds are somehow made to fit with the last.

I can see how audiences want HULK SMASH. Hell, I want it too! But every single movie after TIH had better and more meaningful Hulk action. The "horror-lite" scene in the Brazilian factory was cool, sadly they dropped the ball on everything else after that.
 
jon bones

jon bones

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Oct 25, 2017
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wow i am so checked out of marvel netflix i totally forgot punisher came out

someone let me know if its worth watching, for someone who no longer is interested in that corner of the mcu
 
Nakenorm

Nakenorm

"This guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
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jon bones said:
wow i am so checked out of marvel netflix i totally forgot punisher came out

someone let me know if its worth watching, for someone who no longer is interested in that corner of the mcu
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I like it, but it's been somewhat of a slow burn sofar. On episode 4 now I think and it haven't really grabbed me the way daredevil and JJ did but I I still find it interesting enough to continue.
I just don't think it's a show for everyone.
 
PaypayTR

PaypayTR

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Oct 27, 2017
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Those leaked screens looks too much of Age of Ultron to me. I hope rest of movie isnt visual boring as AoU
 
Bronx-Man

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, I was thinking the IW trailer was coming out this weekend but Disney's already using it to reveal Incredibles 2.

It's looking like Last Jedi is our last hope.
 
Rob

Rob

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SATX
Does ABC/Disney have a Thanksgiving parade? Is there supposed to be a big football game on Thanksgiving? Maybe then.
 

Deleted member 8593

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Not sure this Punisher show is for me. Bernthal is great but I can't shake the feeling that I'm made to feel bad for a psychopath with guns and find him cool.
 
yap

yap

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'm interested how Captain Marvel handles 90's nostalgia. Like if a 90's synthwave/retro revival equivalent could spawn off it, I want to see that.
 

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She's only doing Avengers 4 as far as we know.

Marvel de-aging tech knows no bounds.

yap said:
I'm interested how Captain Marvel handles 90's nostalgia. Like if a 90's synthwave/retro revival equivalent could spawn off it, I want to see that.
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If it doesn't have Torn in it I don't even wanna watch it.
 
broncobuster

broncobuster

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Oct 26, 2017
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Is it early 90s or late 90s? Are we going to get frizzy hair and shoulder pads? Are we going to get sweaters tied to waists?
 
luca

luca

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'm really excited to watch The Punisher tonight. Haven't had time yet. Defenders revived my interest in the Netflix shows even though the plot left a lot to be desired. I'm just a sucker for the characters.
 
Ithil

Ithil

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Oct 25, 2017
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From a chat in the box office thread, here's a challenge for you, cast Saoirse Ronan in the MCU.

I suggested Spider-Gwen.
 
luca

luca

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Oct 25, 2017
16,592
The title for Agents of Shield S05E03 has been revealed:
A Life Spent

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 hits Netflix next month.

Showrunner Steve Lightfoot were asked if he had heard about a second season for The Punisher:
"No, I genuinely don't know how the Netflix system works with making those calls, and I assume once they do [make a call] they'll tell Marvel and Marvel will tell me and we'll jump back to it," Lightfood said. "But I'm very excited to do so. I think we left
both Frank and Billy in places
where there are so many ways to jump off from if that second season comes. We can do anything with them, in truth."
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