[May 24, 2024] WaPo: Uvalde parents are suing gunmaker, Meta and ‘Call of Duty’ manufacturer Activision

[MDCrabCakeFan86]

WaPo has reported that the parents of children killed at Robb Elementary in Uvalde from a mass shooting is suing a gunmaker, Meta and Activision, "The lawsuits allege the companies are responsible for pushing the Robb Elementary shooter to acquire an AR-15 style weapon.":

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/05/24/uvalde-lawsuits-daniel-defense-meta-activision/

SAN ANTONIO, Tex. — The lawyer who won a record-setting settlement for Sandy Hook families announced two new lawsuits Friday on behalf of Uvalde school shooting victims targeting the manufacturer of the AR-15 style weapon used in the attack, as well as the publisher of "Call of Duty" and social media giant Meta.

The lawsuits against Daniel Defense, known for their high-end rifles, Activision, the manufacturer of first-person shooter game "Call of Duty," and Meta, the parent company of Facebook, may be the first of their kind to connect aggressive firearms marketing tactics on social media and gaming platforms to the actions of a mass shooter.

The complaints contend the three companies are responsible for "grooming" a generation of "socially vulnerable" young men radicalized to live out violent video game fantasies in the real world with easily accessible weapons of war.

One of those men, the legal team argues, was Robb Elementary shooter Salvador Ramos. The lawsuits allege Meta and Activision "knowingly exposed the Shooter to the weapon, conditioned him to see it as the solution to his problems, and trained him to use it."

"Over the last 15 years, two of America's largest technology companies — Defendants Activision and Meta — have partnered with the firearms industry in a scheme that makes the Joe Camel campaign look laughably harmless, even quaint," the complaint states.

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[sheeldz]

Sure, the instructions on how to use a gun are far more dangerous than the actual weapons.

 

[sn00zer]

There is something to be said for COD marketing and content clearly aimed at under 17.

 

[Volimar]

Ah, the classics. What's Jack Thompson up to these days?

 

[RPGamer92]

I don't see how they have a case when millions play COD.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Honestly, go nuts. CoD games are blatantly targeted at kids who are under the suggested ESRB rating, so fuck 'em.

As long as you're suing the gunmakers themselves too (which these guys are), why NOT go the primary proliferators of gun culture among kids as well - and that would be social media and shooters like CoD?

 

[Gr8one]

of course video games. M$ and Activision Blizz can get fucked for all I care, but not this way.

 

[Bengraven]

And also sue the GOP who continues to work against gun control laws and offers little solace or responsibility when a shooting happens.

I'd love to see a lawsuit that led to us finding out how much money is lining their pockets from big gun.

Also why just Activision? There are a lot of games that are popular with chuds. PUBG, ArmA, Tarkov, and hell maybe even Fortnite. If this isn't because of this one incident, there's a lot of culprits.

 

[SkimpyMcChicken]

If you're suing Activision, is any video game that features guns and is favored by a school shooter on the table?

Fortnite, Destiny, Halo, PUBG, all gotta be on guard I guess

 

[AstronaughtE]

It makes sense they'd blame Call of Duty. It's possible the police who failed to intervene could have played four matches of the game before they moved on the shooter.

 

[Volimar]

This is going to suck because Activision is 100% going to say "Hey those are M rated games, it's the parents' fault" and it's gonna be rough to point the finger at the parents of school shooting victims.

 

[Kinthey]

I don't see how they have a case when millions play COD.

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Quite the sample group with the rest of the world not buying AR-15s. I wonder why

 

[Westbahnhof]

Honestly, go nuts. CoD games are blatantly targeted at kids who are under the suggested ESRB rating, so fuck 'em.

As long as you're suing the gunmakers themselves too (which these guys are), why NOT go the primary proliferators of gun culture among kids as well - and that would be social media and shooters like CoD?

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Maybe I'm severly out of the loop, is there really any argument that the shooter was driven by CoD in any capacity?

Targeting an impressionable audience with content like this and actually contributing to a mass shooting seem like massively difference levels of severity to me.

 

[Volimar]

Maybe I'm severly out of the loop, is there really any argument that the shooter was driven by CoD in any capacity?

Targeting an impressionable audience with content like this and actually contributing to a mass shooting seem like massively difference levels of severity to me.

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It's not like CoD is novel even in video games wrt glorifying gun violence, let alone music, movies, TV, written fiction, etc. I doubt there's a case there but it sounds like the lawyers probably told them they'd get a settlement because Activision won't want to be on the opposing side of these parents.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Maybe I'm severly out of the loop, is there really any argument that the shooter was driven by CoD in any capacity?

Targeting an impressionable audience with content like this and actually contributing to a mass shooting seem like massively difference levels of severity to me.

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From my perspective it's less CoD specifically that's the problem and more the culture of "guns = cool" and "this specific gun in particular = MEGA cool, doesn't it make you feel POWERFUL" that's being packaged and sold to kids from an early age, and CoD is a huge contributor to that. It's nowhere close to the only one, obviously, but it is a big one.

When so much pop culture in America is "this tough guy with a gun has to solve a corrupt world's problems...by shooting everybody" or "angry guy is GETTING REVENGE by shooting everybody", it just kind of seeps into the groundwater.

 

[kmfdmpig]

If COD, a franchise I don't even care much about, is liable for this then the entire videogame industry should be shut down as so many games are focused on shooting enemies with guns. It's the availability of real guns and devaluing of real life that we should be worried about in the US, not videogames that are played around the world.

 

[vixolus]

If COD, a franchise I don't even care much about, is liable for this then the entire videogame industry should be shut down as so many games are focused on shooting enemies with guns. It's the availability of real guns and devaluing of real life that we should be worried about in the US, not videogames that are played around the world.

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fortnite is cooked

 

[Mesoian]

They don't have a shot with COD.

BUT, It would be good to get Microsoft to have a second look about how they're marketing COD and all variants of towards people 18 and under in a way that illuminates how pervasive some of those tactics can truly be. It's a worthwhile exercise if that gets a nice big spotlight shone on it by the non gaming world.

 

[Westbahnhof]

From my perspective it's less CoD specifically that's the problem and more the culture of "guns = cool" and "this specific gun in particular = MEGA cool, doesn't it make you feel POWERFUL" that's being packaged and sold to kids from an early age, and CoD is a huge contributor to that. It's nowhere close to the only one, obviously, but it is a big one.

When so much pop culture in America is "this tough guy with a gun has to solve a corrupt world's problems...by shooting everybody" or "angry guy is GETTING REVENGE by shooting everybody", it just kind of seeps into the groundwater.

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I don't know, this whole line of thinking seems like the old song and dance of "hey, it sounds like it could be true".
Just because i remember similar ideas being floated all the way back to Erfurt, Germany in 2002, where people talked about Counter-Strike potentially contributing to shootings.
To my knowledge, those theories never really solidify into anything with any true gravity.


Besides all that, though, I feel that this lawsuit targeting Activision specifically won't lead to anything besides potentially a settlement.

 

[Kinthey]

I think there's definitely something to be said about developers working with gun manufacturers though afaik has Call off duty been using unlicensed guns for a while now.

 

[Mesoian]

From my perspective it's less CoD specifically that's the problem and more the culture of "guns = cool" and "this specific gun in particular = MEGA cool, doesn't it make you feel POWERFUL" that's being packaged and sold to kids from an early age, and CoD is a huge contributor to that. It's nowhere close to the only one, obviously, but it is a big one.

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Honestly, the "guns are cool" aspect of it isn't the problem. Guns ARE cool. Using guns is fun. The problem is they paint guns out to be toys instead of weapons, trivializing the massive power your putting in people's hands because they have a nice profit margin.

But real talk, if the people who are in the "guns are cool" club were convinced to have more range time in a safe, controlled environment with people who know what they're doing by going after the "tacticool, my gun has pink highlights" rahrah nature of COD marketing, then absolutely, go after COD marketing.

I think there's definitely something to be said about developers working with gun manufacturers though afaik has Call off duty been using unlicensed guns for a while now.

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That probably has more to do with those licenses being too expensive for a yearly iteration than anything else.

That and they have complete control over how a gun operates vs what the manufacturers want.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I don't know, this whole line of thinking seems like the old song and dance of "hey, it sounds like it could be true".
Just because i remember similar ideas being floated all the way back to Erfurt, Germany in 2002, where people talked about Counter-Strike potentially contributing to shootings.
To my knowledge, those theories never really solidify into anything with any true gravity.


Besides all that, though, I feel that this lawsuit targeting Activision specifically won't lead to anything besides potentially a settlement.

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Like I said, it's more a confluence of a whole bunch of sources than one specific thing being the magic button making people want to shoot each other. It's a "boiling frog" situation rather than some kind of single trigger.

In essence, American culture is SHOCKINGLY fixated on guns and the power they give the individual over life and death. This is pounded into people's heads from a very young age thanks to movies, TV shows and video games. And like Mesoian said, guns are literally marketed like toys now, both in video games and in real life. And when kids grow up internalizing that "guns = toys, shooting guns is fun, shooting people is fun" mentality it adds up over time.

 

[Surakian]

I mean…CoD is played by millions and millions haven't gone out of their way to shoot up people. I think if there was a clear connection between him playing the game, his behavior, perhaps communication with somebody else in the game, then I would understand the nexus but I don't agree on suing Activision (even if I dislike Activision).

 

[take_marsh]

I don't think it's worth entertaining the idea of taking on video game developers for something like this. Activision/Blizzard should be sued into the ground for a lot of things, but this ain't one of them.

The conversation needs to be education and parenting, both very obvious places where failure can destroy innocent lives. Politics gets in the way though, so here we are doing another lap around the violent video games circuit.

 

[NinjaScooter]

Suing the gun makers who make the things that actually cause shootings easily accessible, and Meta who platforms hateful rhetoric that radicalizes people, im all for it.

Suing Call of Duty is fucking stupid.

 

[Typhon]

"decades of video game violence studies can't be right"

Seriously, just sue the gun manufactures. Stop wasting time on this scapegoat that has never gone anywhere and never will.

 

[Vic Damone Jr.]

Have they tried to sue the pd?

 

[DevilPuncher]

Suing gunmakers? ✅

Suing Meta? ✅

Suing Activision? Eh… leaning towards ❌

There's something to be said about how many impressionable children play these military games that they probably not oughta be playing, but art (games are art, even CoD) is a reflection of the world around us. We live in a pretty violent fucking place if you're an American. I highly doubt the Uvalde shooter popped in World at War and was suddenly like, "Huh, I suddenly wanna take out a classroom." He was a deranged freak, plain and simple.

Sue the fuck outta gun manufacturers and Meta though, fuck em.

 

[biglo25]

Suing gunmakers? ✅

Suing Meta? ✅

Suing Activision? Eh…

There's something to be said about how many impressionable children play these military games that they probably not oughta be playing, but art (games are art, even CoD) is a reflection of the world around us. We live in a pretty violent fucking place if you're an American. I highly doubt the Uvalde shooter popped in World at War and was suddenly like, "Huh, I suddenly wanna take out a classroom." He was a deranged freak, plain and simple.

Sue the fuck outta gun manufacturers and Meta though, fuck em.

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its the same as like suing all the singers/bands during the 80's and 90's for the lyrics instead of poor parenting and the like

 

[purplemonkey111]

what about...the cops that didn't do shit when the kids were dying in there?

oh wait, US court already ruled that cops are not required to protect and serve.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Like I said, it's more a confluence of a whole bunch of sources than one specific thing being the magic button making people want to shoot each other. It's a "boiling frog" situation rather than some kind of single trigger.

In essence, American culture is SHOCKINGLY fixated on guns and the power they give the individual over life and death. This is pounded into people's heads from a very young age thanks to movies, TV shows and video games. And like Mesoian said, guns are literally marketed like toys now, both in video games and in real life. And when kids grow up internalizing that "guns = toys, shooting guns is fun, shooting people is fun" mentality it adds up over time.

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Yeah, but when a solution is one that would make the Jack Thompson's, Tipper Gore's and Fredrick Werthem's of the world stand up and cheer then it's probably pretty flawed. If we believe movies, music, TV and games are art then censoring then above and beyond thing like MA or R ratings seems silly in a free society.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Suing gunmakers? ✅

Suing Meta? ✅

Suing Activision? Eh…

There's something to be said about how many impressionable children play these military games that they probably not oughta be playing, but art (games are art, even CoD) is a reflection of the world around us. We live in a pretty violent fucking place if you're an American. I highly doubt the Uvalde shooter popped in World at War and was suddenly like, "Huh, I suddenly wanna take out a classroom." He was a deranged freak, plain and simple.

Sue the fuck outta gun manufacturers and Meta though, fuck em.

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Yeah, but when a solution is one that would make the Jack Thompson's, Tipper Gore's and Fredrick Werthem's of the world stand up and cheer then it's probably pretty flawed. If we believe movies, music, TV and games are art then censoring then above and beyond thing like MA or R ratings seems silly in a free society.

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I think if there IS going to be a lawsuit against Activision, the focus should be less on "stop making these games" and more on some actual accountability for companies like Activision ensuring that kids don't play their games, especially online. Some kind of age check with associated instant server bans for underage players.

At the end of the day, I did what little I could when I worked at GameStop. I always tried to ensure parents knew what kinds of horrible stuff their brats wanted to get into, and sometimes that got me some really hateful glares from some snot-nosed shits, but some parents just really do not give a damn what their kids do as long as said kids are out of their hair, and as long as those kinds of parents exist (and there are a lot of them - I worked at a pretty upscale mall with a lot of rich/upper-middle class clientele, and the number of yuppie moms who just looked like they wanted to die rather than spend 5 minutes in public with their kids was STAGGERING), I'm not really sure what can be done short of penalizing companies like Activision, EA and Sony financially for not putting effort into preventing young kids from playing those kinds of games.

But I suppose no matter what happens, shitty parents will always exist and there'll always be that one kid who slips through the cracks. And even if there was some kind of ban system for underage players playing M-rated games, it's probably next to impossible to enforce at scale. It's a really rotten situation.

 

[The_R3medy]

There is something to be said for COD marketing and content clearly aimed at under 17.

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Agreed though I would assume there would need to be some sort of direct link in order to hold Activision culpable.

It's not like the game came with an instructional video on how to clean the rifles and prep them for a combat situation.

 

[krazen]

While normally not a fan of videogames = violence kinda hard to avoid how COD really upsells the guns and how thinly they hide the real life references. It's not a case of 'Hey, chose your weapon at the select screen.' but a bad ass CGI clip with an army bro flying through the air with "The FAMAS FR 5.56 used by the French special forces with (insert gun porn description here about how lethal and easy to use it is). Become a lethal killer on the battlefield!"

 

[DanGo]

"decades of video game violence studies can't be right"

Seriously, just sue the gun manufactures. Stop wasting time on this scapegoat that has never gone anywhere and never will.

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Gun manufacturers were given massive immunity from lawsuits during the Bush administration. People aren't avoiding suing them for no reasons.

 

[Dyle]

The way Activision partners with real weapons manufacturers while actively targeting underage users has long been super suspect, it's only a matter of time before that comes to an end under Microsoft if they want to continue to play the role of "the good guy of tech" when dealing with US government regulators. This particular case won't go anywhere itself but it will contribute to that inevitable change.

 

[MDCrabCakeFan86]

The lawsuits involving Meta and Activision are attempting to connect firearm advertising on social media and in video games to the actions of a mass shooter:

The lawsuits against Daniel Defense, known for their high-end rifles, Activision, the manufacturer of first-person shooter game "Call of Duty," and Meta, the parent company of Facebook, may be the first of their kind to connect aggressive firearms marketing tactics on social media and gaming platforms to the actions of a mass shooter.

The complaints contend the three companies are responsible for "grooming" a generation of "socially vulnerable" young men radicalized to live out violent video game fantasies in the real world with easily accessible weapons of war.

One of those men, the legal team argues, was Robb Elementary shooter Salvador Ramos. The lawsuits allege Meta and Activision "knowingly exposed the Shooter to the weapon, conditioned him to see it as the solution to his problems, and trained him to use it."

"Over the last 15 years, two of America's largest technology companies — Defendants Activision and Meta — have partnered with the firearms industry in a scheme that makes the Joe Camel campaign look laughably harmless, even quaint," the complaint states.

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[Sean C.]

The lawsuit alleges that Meta, which also owns Instagram, easily allows gun manufacturers like Daniel Defense to circumvent its ban on paid firearm advertisements to reach scores of young people. Under Meta's rules, gunmakers are not allowed to buy advertisements promoting the sale of or use of weapons, ammunition or explosives. But gunmakers are free to post promotional material about weapons from their own account pages on Facebook and Instagram — a freedom the lawsuit alleges Daniel Defense often exploited.

According to the complaint, the Robb school shooter downloaded a version of "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare," in November of 2021 that featured the DDM4V7 model rifle Ramos would later purchase on the game's opening title page. Drawing from the shooter's social media accounts, Koskoff argued he was being bombarded with explicit marketing and combat imagery from the company on Instagram.

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As bases for legal liability, this is extremely weak tea. This probably gets thrown out, unless the companies decide to settle to avoid headlines.

 

[QuigleyMcShine]

There was a good Eurogamer article years ago about money changing hands between Activision and gun manufacturers for the gun licensing; I can't remember which direction the money went. I haven't been able to find out whether that still happens.

If this is less about video games causing violence and more about advertising the gun it could be interesting.

 

[VariantX]

Suing the gun makers who make the things that actually cause shootings easily accessible, and Meta who platforms hateful rhetoric that radicalizes people, im all for it.

Suing Call of Duty is fucking stupid.

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Yeah. Should also be suing the local and state government that makes it even easier to get firearms too.

 

[Nassudan]

Ah, the classics. What's Jack Thompson up to these days?

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Wasn't this dude disbarred or something?

 

[Kiyamet]

Im conflicted

I know videogames have nothing to do with the shooting but on the other hand I would love to see Activision pay out these families

Make no mistake though this is the move of some gross laywers trying to profit off of other peoples pain

 

[MDCrabCakeFan86]

The AP is reporting that the lawsuits claim that the gunmaker had a weapon featured in COD and also mentions firearm advertising:

Families of Uvalde victims sue Meta, video game maker and gun-maker on 2nd anniversary of shooting

The families of 19 victims of the Uvalde school shooting have announced new lawsuits against Instagram parent company Meta Platforms, the maker of the video game “Call of Duty” and the gun company that made the assault rifle used in the shooting.

apnews.com

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — The families of 19 victims of the Uvalde school shooting announced new lawsuits Friday against Instagram parent company Meta Platforms, the maker of the video game "Call of Duty" and the gun company that made the assault rifle used in the shooting.

The lawsuits against Meta, Activision and Daniel Defense were announced on the two-year anniversary of the attack on Robb Elementary School.

They accuse the companies of partnering to promote and create content designed to glorify combat, gun violence and killing that effectively trained the teenage shooter before he killed 19 students and two teachers in one of the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history.

"There is a direct line between the conduct of these companies and the Uvalde shooting," said Josh Koskoff, an attorney for the families. "This three-headed monster knowingly exposed him to the weapon, conditioned him to see it as a tool to solve his problems and trained him to use it."

According to the lawsuits, the Uvalde shooter had played versions of "Call of Duty" since he was 15, including one that allowed him to effectively practice with the version of the rifle he used at the school.

The lawsuit against the game company said it has created a hyper-realistic game where "although the killing is virtual, the weapons are authentic — they are designed to perfectly imitate their real-life counterparts in look, feel, recoil and accuracy."

Instagram does little to enforce its rules rules that ban marketing firearms and harmful content to children, the lawsuit said.

The gun company scored a "marketing coup" with its weapon featured in the game, the attorneys for the family said.

"Simultaneously, on Instagram, the shooter was being courted through explicit, aggressive marketing. In addition to hundreds of images depicting and venerating the thrill of combat, Daniel Defense used Instagram to extol the illegal, murderous use of its weapons," the families' attorneys said in a statement.

The Uvalde shooter opened an online account with Daniel Defense before his 18th birthday, and purchased the rifle as soon as he could, the lawsuit said.

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[Laephis]

Jack Thompson may have been an idiot, but you know what? … Fuck video games that glorify guns and push pro-war propaganda on a completely uncritical audience. The lawsuit isn't going to go anywhere, but I sure don't give a shit if it does.

 

[Laephis]

The AP is reporting that the lawsuits claim that the gunmaker had a weapon featured in COD and also mentions firearm advertising:

Families of Uvalde victims sue Meta, video game maker and gun-maker on 2nd anniversary of shooting

The families of 19 victims of the Uvalde school shooting have announced new lawsuits against Instagram parent company Meta Platforms, the maker of the video game “Call of Duty” and the gun company that made the assault rifle used in the shooting.

apnews.com

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And in my book that's a completely different situation than just claiming "video games cause violence". There's a reason why stuff like Joe Camel was banned - trying to make kids think that something deadly is actually something that's "cool" is twisted, evil shit.

 

[krazen]

And in my book that's a completely different situation than just claiming "video games cause violence". There's a reason why stuff like Joe Camel was banned - trying to make kids think that something deadly is actually something that's "cool" is twisted, evil shit.

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Yup. Its really hard to argue COD isn't basically 'Guns and Ammo Magazine, the game.' It's a different beast than lets say Apex or Fortnite.

 

[DevilPuncher]

I think if there IS going to be a lawsuit against Activision, the focus should be less on "stop making these games" and more on some actual accountability for companies like Activision ensuring that kids don't play their games, especially online. Some kind of age check with associated instant server bans for underage players

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Yeah, I don't disagree. I guess the implementation would be the issue, and it'd probably require some sort of legislation or for the ESA to get involved. Im sure every CoD fan would be happy if every "squeaker" in voice chat got banned the second they opened their mouths, but that's probably not the way to go about it lol

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I think there's definitely something to be said about developers working with gun manufacturers though afaik has Call off duty been using unlicensed guns for a while now.

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They literally stopped because of a school shooting.

Ghosts(2013) was the last one they made deals with weapon manufacturers.
Even the vehicles they use unlicensed knockoffs now.

 

[julia crawford]

I have little to say about this since i don't really think i can say anything intelligent or interesting about it, but it's a complicated thing to have a lot of videogames that are very popular that seem to be part and parcel of a gun culture that is responsible for so many deaths, especially those unrelated to their proper use but instead to situations of violence or death that come about because guns are present that would otherwise not happen without them. I don't think it's a stretch to say that guns are being sold because videogames have made them items of interest, though the scale is something i don't know but has probably been reported somewhere. But talking about that in the context of situations like these that are rotted in deep sorrow, and other things like the reality of teenagers having to coexist with the possibility of school shootings, it's hard not to be like "how do people sleep at night marketing guns in a videogame and still watch the news about school shootings like everyone else?", like... it aches to try and hold all of these things in conversation and not lose the plot.

And, like in all of these situations, it still seems like such a small thing to question... with the towering truth of please just have stricter gun control standing right next to it. If that doesn't happen, what does? Is Activision to be blamed here? Perhaps it is, perhaps not. But it's a surreal kind of blame to decide on when guns just should not be fucking sold like they are.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

I'm fine with this. It's clear they aren't solely blaming video games. If my kid died I would want everyone's head even 1% contributing.

On the flip side I don't know what we do about parents letting kids play stuff they shouldn't be like i have kids in my family who were playing fornite at like 6 years old when it's very clearly rated T. I don't think we can say oh the parents can decide what their kid does when it's not really being followed by any significant portion of the population.