Meta loses another $3.8 billion on VR/AR

[kambaybolongo]

How low does the price have to get?
How many millions more do they have to sell before you stop considering it a "niche" ?

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They're selling a subsidized novelty product at a low price of course they'll sell. Are a substantial number of people actively using them and buying software? No. VR is still very much niche

Like if Apple sold the Vision Pro for under a thousand bucks they'd probably sell a ton of those things, but again, would people actually use the product? Maybe for a little bit but it would inevitably sit there collecting dust for most people.

 

[BlueManifest]

Can't believe people dreamed of VR back in 90s and early 2000's, it seemed so scifi and futuristic and we couldn't wait for it

Now we finally have access to it and only a few people want to use it

 

[Fisty]

Don't worry... *checks notes*... GTA San Andreas will save them

This explains them opening up Quest hardware to other manufacturers, they are probably looking to slash production by a huge amount

 

[beat]

I can't believe Zuck spent tens of billions on this over the years just to have PS2 quality graphics. And then he was so proud of it he changed the company name to try to will it into existence. Has Meta even invented anything like Disney's HoloTile floor to allow walking around in VR?

(He has absolute control over FB, thanks to Class B shares. The board literally cannot fire him! He could personally set fire to all of Meta's servers and say he's pivoting the company to tulip bulbs if he wanted!)

 

[artsi]

Meta loses $3.8 billion which sounds big. And it is.

But the crazy thing is, they actually have those billions to spend on whatever they want, and they (Zuck) chose virtual reality.

If we want VR to succeed let's be happy lol

 

[whoamiifnotwhoiam]

They're putting too much focus on the hardware and little focus on the software. No killer app. No defacto productivity thing. Apart from gaming (which is great, i'm not going against that), all the other apps are pretty much a on-your-face version of everything that already is on other cheaper, more known devices...

 

[Melhadf]

I used to prefer VR over standard games, but then disability happened and now I can't roomscale as my mobility is restricted. Even beat saber is out as some songs require ducking low (not happening). I think this is the big failing of VR, that it's designed for "healthy" able bodied people, not understanding that being able-bodied is a temporary condition.

 

[Ramsiege]

I honestly don't think VR will ever become mainstream. If the public rejected 3D TVs because wearing the glasses was too cumbersome for them, what hope does VR truly have?

 

[Galkinator]

Zuck's eternal sunk cost fallacy

 

[Primal Sage]

Oh no! Who could have seen this coming??

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Meta did.

I've said the same thing about VR for years, it ain't ready for prime time as long as the price is way lower and the form factor is significantly reduced. Might as well forget about the bulky goggles or helmets with wires. It's not getting out of the niche until then

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Quest 1 + 2 have sold more devices than Series X/S. Is Xbox niché?

VR is mainstream. It has been for a couple of years. Now has it sold 100s of millions of units? Now, but that's a weirdly high bar to set for something to be mainstream. Is it something you find in non-gamer households? Yes. it has gamer and non-gamer appeal. That's pretty mainstream.

 

[Kaiser Swayze]

VR doesn't need to be for everybody. It doesn't need to take over the world. And if they stopped making it tomorrow, I still got to play fucking Wipeout in VR. To all you "it's not there yet" people, it's been "there" for years but it's just not for you. And to all you people who seem angry that VR even exists? Get over yourselves.

 

[Primal Sage]

If the public rejected 3D TVs because wearing the glasses was too cumbersome for them, what hope does VR truly have?

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That's not really a fitting comparison, though I fully understand why it seems apropos due to both being something you wear on your face.

3D glasses had a lot of issues apart from the "it's on my face" thing:
-Colours, contrast, and brightness was severely worse than 2D content.
-For many people, crosstalk was an issue with you essentially seeing double.
-If you weren't sitting precisely in the middle infront of the display, the issue above would be even worse.
-The effectiveness of the 3D effect would very much be affected by the distance your were sitting/size of the tv. The tech really was at its best with a huge display.

VR headsets don't have those issues. They can be used as 3D displays and everything above is a non-issue when consuming 3D media.
They have different issues of course which are consistently being eroded as the tech progresses.

 

[Red Kong XIX]

Basically why other headsets are so expensive compared to Meta. They can't afford or don't want to lose this much money.

 

[Fatoy]

They're putting too much focus on the hardware and little focus on the software. No killer app. No defacto productivity thing. Apart from gaming (which is great, i'm not going against that), all the other apps are pretty much a on-your-face version of everything that already is on other cheaper, more known devices...

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It's very clear that Meta sees its Quest hardware as game consoles. They tried the enterprise route with the Quest Pro, and it flopped, but as standalone consoles the Quest 2 and Quest 3 are wildly successful, well-supported products with strong software libraries, and Meta (and Zuck) know this.

Separately, if analysts and investors think these losses are rough, wait until the true scale of Meta's investment in AI becomes apparent. The amount they've spent on H100s, clusters, and new data centres is wild when you consider that there's essentially zero roadmap to value beyond putting chatbots in WhatsApp and Instagram.

 

[Yesterzine]

VR doesn't need to be for everybody. It doesn't need to take over the world. And if they stopped making it tomorrow, I still got to play fucking Wipeout in VR. To all you "it's not there yet" people, it's been "there" for years but it's just not for you. And to all you people who seem angry that VR even exists? Get over yourselves.

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All of them sound like the people who said the exact same thing about video games. And cars. And home phones. And movies. And the internet.

I used to prefer VR over standard games, but then disability happened and now I can't roomscale as my mobility is restricted. Even beat saber is out as some songs require ducking low (not happening). I think this is the big failing of VR, that it's designed for "healthy" able bodied people, not understanding that being able-bodied is a temporary condition.

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Unavoidable in some cases but I'd slightly disagree.

For instance, my ex-MIL is disabled and can't visit many places in the world. It's in no way the same but Google Earth VR/Street View allowed her a look at a lot of things she wouldn't remotely have been able to see in the world. It lets people who might otherwise not be able to drive, and fly too.

 

[Tygre]

Quest 1 + 2 have sold more devices than Series X/S. Is Xbox niché?

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Yes. The Series consoles are absolutely niche, that's why gaming had a month long freakout about MS maybe going third party.

MS, like Meta, just happen to have billions of dollars to burn and a wider strategy than just selling a fairly niche piece of hardware. MS and Xbox are bigger than Series. Meta is bigger than Quest.

VR is mainstream.

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No. VR is not, and in it's current form won't ever be, mainstream.

VR headsets don't have those issues.

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VR headsets absolutely have fidelity, comfort, and other similar issues.

The biggest issue they have: People don't want to put things on their face.

I've worn glasses since I was 4, I spend a lot of money on buying the most comfortable, the lightest, best in class frames and lenses. I still wish I didn't have to wear glasses because wearing glasses fucking sucks.

Will VR/AR see more success when it's in the form factor of a pair of sunglasses? Probably. Will it still be a niche product with limited appeal to most people? Absolutely.

 

[gifyku]

I appreciate companies taking risks when they can afford to. Maybe VR/AR isn't your thing but this kind of commitment is what we need more of, not less.

 

[Primal Sage]

All of them sound like the people who said the exact same thing about video games. And cars. And home phones. And movies. And the internet.

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I am always reminded of this quote:

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."

Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1977


Don't make tech predictions based on what the tech is like today. Make it based on what it could be in the future.

 

[Primal Sage]

Yes. The Series consoles are absolutely niche, that's why gaming had a month long freakout about MS maybe going third party.

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I am engaging with this in good faith. What then would the criteria be for mainstream?

 

[Elven_Star]

These leeches have sucked so much money out of people (while making their life miserable) that such losses are not going to do anything to them.

 

[Pargon]

I used to prefer VR over standard games, but then disability happened and now I can't roomscale as my mobility is restricted. Even beat saber is out as some songs require ducking low (not happening). I think this is the big failing of VR, that it's designed for "healthy" able bodied people, not understanding that being able-bodied is a temporary condition.

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For what it's worth, I have a physical disability and VR is helping me to lose weight, increase strength and mobility - so your mileage may vary.
And there are a lot of great seated VR experiences that people who are bed-bound can experience.

All of them sound like the people who said the exact same thing about video games. And cars. And home phones. And movies. And the internet.

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They really do. It's so weird to see people that have bought into a hobby like gaming be so resistant and negative about something closely adjacent to it.

No. VR is not, and in it's current form won't ever be, mainstream.

VR headsets absolutely have fidelity, comfort, and other similar issues.
The biggest issue they have: People don't want to put things on their face.
I've worn glasses since I was 4, I spend a lot of money on buying the most comfortable, the lightest, best in class frames and lenses. I still wish I didn't have to wear glasses because wearing glasses fucking sucks.
Will VR/AR see more success when it's in the form factor of a pair of sunglasses? Probably. Will it still be a niche product with limited appeal to most people? Absolutely.

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A lot of your big generalizations should really be replaced with "I".

 

[NTMBK]

VR is deeply isolating. I don't enjoy being locked into a claustrophobic headset with no perception of reality, no way of knowing who is in the room with me, no way to avoid tripping over my dog.

AR glasses is just a dystopian nightmare. Why the hell would I want to put a megacorporation's tech between myself and the world for the entire day? To let them see everything I see and lay their own layer on top of reality? Fuck that.

 

[Luckett_X]

The one good thing with Zuck is he see's the VR potential, even if he's scuppered it a bit by being so myopicly mobile focussed. The photo realistic avatar chat they've been developing for like 10 years would be here by now if they'd stuck some desktop stuff out. Instead Apple got to release it first, albeit still in mobile but an insanely expensive kit.

Oh no! Who could have seen this coming??

I've said the same thing about VR for years, it ain't ready for prime time as long as the price is way lower and the form factor is significantly reduced. Might as well forget about the bulky goggles or helmets with wires. It's not getting out of the niche until then

Click to shrink...

How do you think commercial technology develops. Particularly screen based technology. It releases in larger, expensive form factors, stays on the market and evolves. If its not on the market it just STOPS. They don't just stop VR now entirely for a decade and then magically turn up with Sunglasses VR outta nowhere. That's what all this continual massive R&D budget is building towards. Just cut it and give up now and you cede control to a competitor, while you'd have to start from scratch again a generation later. The Microsoft hardware problem basically.

 

[marc^o^]

At this stage I feel grateful for the Quest 3 to exist, at this entry price, with no ads to spoil the experience. It is so damn good and affordable for what we have.

 

[fourfourfun]

Honestly, they make a wonderful product I simply can't find an excuse to buy. And I feel that is the entire problem it is facing.

 

[Primal Sage]

They really do. It's so weird to see people that have bought into a hobby like gaming be so resistant and negative about something closely adjacent to it.

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It of course doesn't hold true for everybody but it's clear from various comments sections that a large portion of those actively hating on VR do so because they feel the resources going into VR game X means flat game Y won't be made.

Fuck those pesky developers who want to try something new. They should only make the kinds of things I like.

 

[Remy]

Tbh I'd be sad if Meta stopped. I'm really falling in love with my Quest3.

 

[Sangral]

VR still does not have a killer app and at this point I'm not sure if it ever will.

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If VR Chat is not THE killer app for you in that regard, then VR simply isn't for you.

 

[fairwxfriend]

Remember when they tried to make 3D tvs a thing

People don't like wearing shit on their faces

No killer apps to make people want to put up with wearing bullshit on their face

 

[TitanicFall]

Good thing its utility is not just for gaming. Even if you don't care about VR, these are investments that are forward thinking. Some companies won't necessarily highlight their use of it as a tool, but it can be one of several tools they utilize to enhance their operations.

 

[tokkun]

I am engaging with this in good faith. What then would the criteria be for mainstream?

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I think the main issue is about how many people are using VR on a regular basis, like daily or at least weekly.

I have a group of friends that I play games with. We all own headsets and used to play PCVR games together. But these days if I suggest a VR game the other people always say their headset is not connected any more and it would be too much of a hassle to set up.

It of course doesn't hold true for everybody but it's clear from various comments sections that a large portion of those actively hating on VR do so because they feel the resources going into VR game X means flat game Y won't be made.

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I am not sure anyone actually believes this. Why would they? The narrative around VR is that there are no AAA games besides Alyx.

 

[Yurei]

I've actually been considering getting a Meta Quest 3 if only to try sculpting in VR, and they're still the most affordable feature rich option.

It is kind of crazy that they leaned so hard into this. It'll happen one day where headsets are a big deal but I think we're still 5-10 years out.

 

[JTSilver]

If VR Chat is not THE killer app for you in that regard, then VR simply isn't for you.

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And Half Life Alyx, Beat Saber, Asgard's Wrath 2, Walkabout Minigolf, Eleven Table Tennis etc. There are many "killer apps" for VR depending on your interests. For many, Microsoft Flight Simulator is reason alone to purchase a headset.

There's no lack of incredible VR games.

I think it's more that video games are just a small piece of the overall puzzle that will make VR popular over time, and at the moment they currently has the lion's share of developer focus.

 

[Fat4all]

feels like porn needs to get a bit better

just speaking

speculatively

 

[BeI]

And Half Life Alyx, Beat Saber, Asgard's Wrath 2, Walkabout Minigolf, Eleven Table Tennis etc. There are many "killer apps" for VR depending on your interests. For many, Microsoft Flight Simulator is reason alone to purchase a headset.

There's no lack of incredible VR games.

I think it's more that video games are just a small piece of the overall puzzle that will make VR popular over time.

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I think the combo of VR and AR is what will get popular; there's just too much potential with it, along with streaming. So much cool stuff you could do when you have a whole virtual world that can act as any number of displays anywhere, as opposed to having many physical devices that each need a screen.

 

[cakefoo]

I can't believe Zuck spent tens of billions on this over the years just to have PS2 quality graphics.

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At a much higher resolution, higher framerate, higher texture quality, plus all of that twice, while confined to a significantly smaller form factor, all without melting your face off.

Plus, only a fraction of Meta's spending goes into the current Quest product. Literally half of it is spent on their secretive AR R&D that won't even be in consumer products for years.

Most people just read 10 words from PCGamer contributor articles and think they know everything.

 

[jett]

lol insane how much money they dump and will continue to dump on something that won't make a dime any time soon.

if ever. i think people are soundly rejecting the "wear a bunch of garbage on your face" future

 

[Deimos]

Yes. The Series consoles are absolutely niche, that's why gaming had a month long freakout about MS maybe going third party.

MS, like Meta, just happen to have billions of dollars to burn and a wider strategy than just selling a fairly niche piece of hardware. MS and Xbox are bigger than Series. Meta is bigger than Quest.



No. VR is not, and in it's current form won't ever be, mainstream.



VR headsets absolutely have fidelity, comfort, and other similar issues.

The biggest issue they have: People don't want to put things on their face.

I've worn glasses since I was 4, I spend a lot of money on buying the most comfortable, the lightest, best in class frames and lenses. I still wish I didn't have to wear glasses because wearing glasses fucking sucks.

Will VR/AR see more success when it's in the form factor of a pair of sunglasses? Probably. Will it still be a niche product with limited appeal to most people? Absolutely.

Click to shrink...

You're making a lot of bold, sweeping generalizations based on your own anecdotal opinions.

 

[Ratuso]

Most of the money is going to R&D , this is an investment ,not a loss.

 

[shiro09]

where is the money going? would be interesting how much goes to a couple of people

 

[UAZ-469]

Yes. The Series consoles are absolutely niche, that's why gaming had a month long freakout about MS maybe going third party.

MS, like Meta, just happen to have billions of dollars to burn and a wider strategy than just selling a fairly niche piece of hardware. MS and Xbox are bigger than Series. Meta is bigger than Quest.



No. VR is not, and in it's current form won't ever be, mainstream.



VR headsets absolutely have fidelity, comfort, and other similar issues.

The biggest issue they have: People don't want to put things on their face.

I've worn glasses since I was 4, I spend a lot of money on buying the most comfortable, the lightest, best in class frames and lenses. I still wish I didn't have to wear glasses because wearing glasses fucking sucks.

Will VR/AR see more success when it's in the form factor of a pair of sunglasses? Probably. Will it still be a niche product with limited appeal to most people? Absolutely.

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All of this. I've owned 3 HMDs and will always aim to have one for driving and flight sims. VR is amazingly Immersive and unlike anything else when it's done well. But the friction to use it and the isolation one experiences in it confine it to niche status. Even as just a pair of glasses it would be fighting an uphill battle.

 

[Garrison]

I guess this is one of the few times we gotta be grateful Mark is the big boss over there.

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Pretty much. I will be getting a Meta quest 3 soon, tried the 2 and loved it.

 

[Kouriozan]

I bet Facebook would have gone big on AI if they didn't already bet everything on the same VR/AR basket. If only they had waited a few more years to see if there's really market for this, maybe they fell victim to the "NFT future" investors were pushing on everyone, now look at that market nowadays…
Anyway it's too late to turn back, call it sinking cost fallacy if you will.

 

[cakefoo]

lol insane how much money they dump and will continue to dump on something that won't make a dime any time soon.

if ever. i think people are soundly rejecting the "wear a bunch of garbage on your face" future

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Younger and younger people are growing up with VR being the norm, and it's only going to get less intrusive on your face and more socially beneficial as more people adopt it and more quality apps become available.

Today's 30 year olds in 10-15 years will probably be like

 

[Lashley]

VR ain't it

 

[Primal Sage]

I am not sure anyone actually believes this. Why would they? The narrative around VR is that there are no AAA games besides Alyx.

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Why? Because they are idiots. (*)

Loads of people believe this. People were up in arms when Horizon Call of the Mountain was announced (even though it was a different team). You constantly see this idea that the efforts of team x is wasted because they spent years working on something that person isn't interested in rather than something they WOULD have been interested in. The comments sections on State of Plays whenever a VR game is shown are a riot. Or the announcement of Metro Awakening.

I've seen people literally say on this forum that they want VR to die so those resources "return" to flat gaming.

(*: There IS some truth to it though. If the Naughty Dog A-team spends the next five years making a VR-only game then yes, that means it will be at least that much longer before you see a Naughty Dog flat game from the A-team. But no one gets to tell a dev what they SHOULD develop. That's like telling a painter that they should never explore new styles. For all the "let's support devs" rhetoric we see on Era it only goes so far)

 

[jett]

Younger and younger people are growing up with VR being the norm, and it's only going to get less intrusive on your face and more socially beneficial as more people adopt it and more quality apps become available.

Today's 30 year olds in 10-15 years will probably be like

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Nobody is growing up with VR being the norm

 

[cakefoo]

I bet Facebook would have gone big on AI if they didn't already bet everything on the same VR/AR basket.

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joke post?

 

[Voodoopeople]

Pretty much. I will be getting a Meta quest 3 soon, tried the 2 and loved it.

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I had a PSVR 1 and loved that but haven't had one since. Been initially tempted by PSVR 2 by Sony clearly don't care about it, so why should I?

So I'm like you, looking at Quest 3 and getting closer to pulling teh trigger. I'm interested to see the jump in fidelity since I last did VR.

 

[Primal Sage]

I bet Facebook would have gone big on AI if they didn't already bet everything on the same VR/AR basket.

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But they already did. It's part of the same division that does VR/AR. And AI is probably going to add to those devices - or rather, their software.

AI is a big part of their yearly expenditure but there is more clickbait potential in framing it as "OMG, VR is so unprofitable it's not even funny!"