Metro: "PS5 Pro developer verdict: ‘I didn’t meet a single person that understood the point of it’"

[BeastmodeDynasty]

Interesting article from Metro from all the GDC fallout recently.

PS5 Pro developer verdict: ‘I didn't meet a single person that understood the po

Enthusiasm for the PS5 Pro seems to be non-existent amongst most video game developers, with most claiming there is no need for it.

metro.co.uk

The PlayStation 5 will be celebrating it's fourth birthday this autumn, but it really doesn't feel like the mid-point of the generation – given the stock problems that marred the first two years and the recent paucity of first party releases.

That's just one reason why rumours about the PS5 Pro being released this year have enjoyed such a muted response, with few gamers feeling a mid-generation upgrade is necessary. And it seems most developers agree with them.

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Shortly after returning from GDC, GamesIndustry.biz editor Christopher Dring appeared in a podcast, in which he claimed that when speaking to developers, 'I'll be honest, I didn't meet a single person that understood the point of it.'

'Developers didn't seem to feel they needed it', he said. 'They weren't really making the most of the PS5 in the first place,' he added.

That's pretty much exactly what most gamers have said, but while Sony has not made any official announcements the new console model has been rumoured for over a year now. Detailed technical specifications also recently leaked, which suggested it would be a smaller upgrade than from the PlayStation 4 to PS4 Pro.

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Considering how obsessed publishers have become with growth recently, Dring also added that, 'A couple of companies said: 'This isn't going to grow the market. This isn't going to move the needle.'

'This generation doesn't even seem to have got started, let alone needs a mid-generation upgrade,' he concluded.

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Your thoughts?

 

[JaseMath]

'Developers didn't seem to feel they needed it', he said. 'They weren't really making the most of the PS5 in the first place,' he added.

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Pretty much says it all. Gonna be a tough sell for Sony.

 

[Simba]

i agree that this gen feels like it has barely started. we are finally moving away from crossgen titles on ps5 for big releases it feels like.

 

[Nolbertos]

I don't think it was needed, as developers have barely scratched the surface with the power and visuals for the OG PS5. I think Sony saw the PS4 Pro sales bonanza and thought they'd try again with the PS5 Pro and reap sales. This gen to me has been more lacklustre than the PS4 gen midpoint

 

[Gavalanche]

Yeah it is hard to disagree.

The only reason why it is happening is because PlayStation thinks it will sell.

Pretty much says it all. Gonna be a tough sell for Sony.

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Nah it will sell just fine. It won't be the main console or anything, but it will do decent numbers.

 

[BrucCLea13k87]

this is non-news and a regurgitation of what Dring said previously

 

[Kalentan]

Is it just me or is the:

'They weren't really making the most of the PS5 in the first place,'

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statement sort of more damning on the developers side than anything. Like... with how many current-gen games releasing with increasingly poorer performance and poorer image quality... I don't know if I believe this lol

Like as someone who has been critical of the PS5 Pro, hearing a dev say that after seemingly optimization getting overall worse across the industry is... something.

 

[NullPointer]

'This generation doesn't even seem to have got started, let alone needs a mid-generation upgrade,' he concluded.

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Yep.

 

[Wrexis]

FFVII Rebirth was the only title in 4 years that I felt needed an extra oomph that a Pro model could help with.
Even Horizon Forbidden West which looked glorious didn't seem to be taxing the PS5.

 

[Kinsei]

Uh-huh, this gen has barely started. Though it would be nice if the release of the pro leads to a price drop on the regular PS5.

 

[Yerffej]

I said it in another thread, but John from DF said he's talked with some devs who said they are happy with the CPUs this gen. Feels like they've hardly had the chance to really pull out all the stops yet.

 

[DanGo]

'This generation doesn't even seem to have got started, let alone needs a mid-generation upgrade,' he concluded.

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Yeeeep.

 

[Foffy]

PS5 barely feels like it's in a stride, so of course a mid-generation revision seems so strange right now. Wii U still has more exclusives than PS5. This is not a dig, but more of a point we're really barely in to justify a refresh. And it seems developers feel the same way, too.

 

[Wollan]

Explain the image quality issues and/or lower resolution for Performance mode if the PS5 hardware is not being pushed heh.

I'll take that superior A.I super resolution upscaling thank you.

 

[Freezasaurus]

i agree that this gen feels like it has barely started. we are finally moving away from crossgen titles on ps5 for big releases it feels like.

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I feel like launching new consoles in the middle of the pandemic was probably a misstep when they didn't have the big titles to support it at the time. And now they're rushing into a "mid-gen" refresh.

 

[Yerffej]

Explain the image quality issues for Performance mode if the PS5 hardware is not being pushed heh.

I'll take that superior A.I super resolution upscaling thank you.

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Are you referring to all titles?

 

[fracas]

I didn't realize it's not supposed to be a big upgrade from the base model.

That said, I feel like people are overestimating how powerful these consoles really are. It's a big upgrade from the PS4 but at the end of the day, it's a $500 box with specs that were upper mid range in 2020.

 

[TimPV3]

While he was there, he should've asked those devs to share how tbey got their games to run at 60FPS/4K with ray-tracing

 

[Soj]

It will sell out on the first day while people are still getting out of bed.

 

[Gavalanche]

I feel like launching new consoles in the middle of the pandemic was probably a misstep when they didn't have the big titles to support it at the time. And now they're rushing into a "mid-gen" refresh.

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Well they aren't really rushing into it, they would have started working on this years ago, probably straight after the ps5 came out. They probably would have thought they would have bigger titles out by now, that people would be clamouring fit an upgrade etc etc. now it's either scrap it or release it, abd might as well release it.

 

[Laephis]

The only thing that would get me excited at this point is a PS5 Slim that was actually slim.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Well they aren't really rushing into it, they would have started working on this years ago, probably straight after the ps5 came out. They probably would have thought they would have bigger titles out by now, that people would be clamouring fit an upgrade etc etc. now it's either scrap it or release it, abd might as well release it.

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I mean I know you have people who will buy it regardless, but I am curious to see the adoption rate.

 

[VariantX]

Pandemic basically stalled the industry for a few years so I can completely understand that developer's point of view.

 

[Hasney]

I feel like launching new consoles in the middle of the pandemic was probably a misstep when they didn't have the big titles to support it at the time. And now they're rushing into a "mid-gen" refresh.

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This would have been planned even before the PS5 launch. You're looking at a 4-5 year lead time on any new hardware.

 

[Freezasaurus]

This would have been planned even before the PS5 launch. You're looking at a 4-5 year lead time on any new hardware.

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Ya'll seem to be focusing more on the "rushing into a mid-gen refresh" part of my comment, and not the "Releasing new hardware during a pandemic was a misstep" part, which is where the emphasis was in my head.

 

[RivalGT]

I feel like the statement doesn't make much sense, "They weren't really making the most of the PS5 in the first place" considering the PS5 is the base system. So even if devs are not making full use of PS5, that has nothing to do with a PS5 pro. I can understand if you are talking about lower budget games, which I'm sure is many games on PS5, but most main stream games that are PS5 only are starting to have IQ issues, on top of having lackluster RT effects compared to whats available on PC.

So while the statement may apply to some games on PS5, it really has nothing to do with games that actually push the system to the point that you have games with worse IQ then lastgen consoles.

 

[Xeonidus]

Yeah, can't say I'm interested in a Pro myself. I'll be saving my money for a launch PS6 most likely. Still, if people want that extra power, more power to them! I think the best place to play GTA6 will still be great selling point at least until PC release. It will also be the best console to play multiplats until next gen launch.

 

[Gitaroo]

definitely needed one IMO especially with recent bigger budget games showing PS5 age. Returnal PC running at 4K DLSS performance mode which is 1080p internal compare to and the quality of the PS5 version which is also 1080p internal is like night a day different. And RT is just cherry on top, you basically get a remaster of the same game released not even that far apart. People that don't see the point of Pro are probably people that doesn't care about image quality to begin with, and I don't think that is Sony targeted audience. Or dev that don't target high spec or indie dev.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

the point is for me to buy it and put it in my main room and move the ps5 normal to the spare room and to have more pretties and more frames

 

[Dyno]

I'm mixed. The gen does still feel fresh and I'd probably skip it if I didn't have a buyer for my ps5 already. That said, I disagree with the idea the ps5 isn't being fully utilised. That's entirely a perspective thing as full utilisation is really just about maxing a system out. There are games doing that. You can argue the engines they're operating on are far more demanding than one would assume like Dragons Dogma, but clearly the PS5 is not handling that game well at all.

There isn't some secret power hidden away in the box and devs will pretty much always push the system as hard as they can without running into performance issues. It's a constant balancing act for optimisation and I don't think there's really something left untapped in the PS5.

 

[BrucCLea13k87]

I feel like I should be screaming this from a megaphone: Sony had this on the table years prior. They themselves probably didn't expect cross-gen to last this long (just look at all the layoffs). But the PS4 Pro must've sold enough to warrant this thing. IE they put money into developing this thing and they just have to do it to make up for it.

Overall, I think it's a great thing for gamers and PS. Why?

1. It in no way holds back development for PS5. PS5 is the main platform. It will not hold devs back like the XSS
2. It introduces devs to PSSR, which will be the staple for PS moving forward. This will allow devs to work out the kinks and give feedback to Sony on their upscaling tech so it's good and ready by the time PS6 comes out.
3. It's for enthusiasts. Those who want to play fidelity mode at 60 fps.(AKA, me)
4. If you don't give a fuck about resolution and fps, then it is not for you and it will in no way effect the way you enjoy games.

Also, this forum has a horrific track record in predicting "Pro" Sony tech sales. There were a ton of posts about how PS Portal and the Elite would bomb. I'm pretty sure they have been in the top spots of hardware sales for months.

If devs don't understand why this is needed, then I would ask them why most UE4 and UE5 games have run like shit so far.

 

[Hasney]

Ya'll seem to be focusing more on the "rushing into a mid-gen refresh" part of my comment, and not the "Releasing new hardware during a pandemic was a misstep" part, which is where the emphasis was in my head.

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Well it still stands because of the lead rime. They would have orders for chips from AMD and work booked on manufacturing lines way before the pandemic even started. The alternative would have been to have consoles sitting in warehouses and draining money, Demons Souls and Ratchet and Clank done but not getting a return on investment because they can't launch, and cross gen games either in the same situation or launching on PS4 only. That's a much more depressing timeline.

 

[Genesius]

Rebirth has been the first major game I've felt warranted a hardware upgrade. Granted I haven't played Dragon's Dogma yet but it sounds like it needs help too.

I'm in for a Pro.

 

[Carlquincy]

I thought Sony won't make a pro since ps5 is powerful, unlike ps4.

 

[JuniperAndSage]

Just cause they haven't hit a hard wall, doesn't mean that more powerful hardware won't result in better looking/running games.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Well it still stands because of the lead rime. They would have orders for chips from AMD and work booked on manufacturing lines way before the pandemic even started. The alternative would have been to have consoles sitting in warehouses and draining money, Demons Souls and Ratchet and Clank done but not getting a return on investment because they can't launch, and cross gen games either in the same situation or launching on PS4 only. That's a much more depressing timeline.

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I get it, it just seems premature. And now because it worked once with the PS4 Pro, everyone is going to do mid-gen console refreshes now. Like, it's kind of depressing. Some people play on consoles to get rid of the constant race to upgrade that PC gamers contend with.

 

[MegaSackman]

It's pointless because even with the Pro games are still gonna release in questionable state.

 

[Hasney]

I get it, it just seems premature. And now because it worked once with the PS4 Pro, everyone is going to do mid-gen console refreshes now. Like, it's kind of depressing. Some people play on consoles to get rid of the constant race to upgrade that PC gamers contend with.

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MS apparently aren't doing the mid gen thing, which is odd to me since I thought they liked saying they have the most powerful console.

Personally, if it gets more games to hit 60 or even 120, then I am all about it and want them to continue.

 

[2Blackcats]

View: https://twitter.com/_Tom_Henderson_/status/1768752692266991822?t=itLjRMLbqvxwwQhJXHPpVw&s=19

We've also got this post.

 

[YukiroCTX]

Is it just me or is the:



statement sort of more damning on the developers side than anything. Like... with how many current-gen games releasing with increasingly poorer performance and poorer image quality... I don't know if I believe this lol

Like as someone who has been critical of the PS5 Pro, hearing a dev say that after seemingly optimization getting overall worse across the industry is... something.

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Agreed. I'm mixed on pro generally but how can these devs say this when we see games release in the state they do, at the least more powerful hardware potentially alleviates some of performance issues which in itself serves a purpose in same way on PC better hardware brute force way through.

Also, this forum has a horrific track record in predicting "Pro" Sony tech sales. There were a ton of posts about how PS Portal and the Elite would bomb. I'm pretty sure they have been in the top spots of hardware sales for months.

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Yeah. People tend to think it's not for me therefore why would there be such market. But Pro devices have been around while now. People always want more better things.

 

[NaikoGames]

to me it feels more like a money thing, GTA6 is coming so its just a good way to push more hardware.

it just doesnt make a lot of sense from a development perspective, the PS5 and Series X were barely exploted by few games.

 

[FlaygletheBagel]

Diminishing returns. This is the gen that made me feel like technology isn't inhibiting the design of… well, any video game anymore. The canvas is better than it's ever been, and marginally more CPU and GPU oomph isn't magically going to make games exist that tap into it.

 

[DontHateTheBacon]

have they heard of money

 

[bitcloudrzr]

to me it feels more like a money thing, GTA6 is coming so its just a good way to push more hardware.

it just doesnt make a lot of sense from a development perspective, the PS5 and Series X were barely exploted by few games.

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The reality is there are a lot of graphical and framerate enhancements possible and people would be willing to pay for them. Devs saying that there is not a point, in the sense the PS5 is not putting up many roadblocks for the Pro to solve also makes sense.

 

[SP.]

It seems like a massive waste of money

 

[Kickfister]

More power is always nice, and there's always going to be *some* kind of market for that (I mean, $1600 4090s sell just fine). But there's absolutely no mass consumer marketable angle for a Pro machine this time around. Pro systems were genuinely welcome last time because 4k TVs were getting normalized at the start of the generation. Having a hot new console that can't even output 4k is disappointing. It's easy marketing to say "this is the box you need for your 4k TV". Most people have no concept of how games work at any level, they don't understand that games even have an internal resolution. The PS5 and Series X were already marketed as 4k boxes...hell the PS5 has 8k on the box! So what's the marketing angle? 4k forreal this time? 4k in the handful of games that don't look 4k enough?

The PS5 Pro is a system for people in the know. It's Sony wanting to keep their technically minded customers away from the allure of PC as the generation presses on and consoles get pushed more and more to the breaking point. The only strategic position I see Sony trying to get themselves in with the Pro is having it as a halo product that makes the PS5 more appealing. I just don't see a world where this flies off shelves this time. I honestly expect it to sell a few million units and not much more, unless there's been some huge shift in consumers being technically minded with their video games.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

The point is to sell another box to someone who already owns one

 

[Knight613]

Kind of feel like even if they didn't say it, most felt the same way with the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.

 

[CosmicGP]

Guess I'll wait for the PS5 Pro Slim.

 

[Soriku]

FFVII Rebirth was the only title in 4 years that I felt needed an extra oomph that a Pro model could help with.
Even Horizon Forbidden West which looked glorious didn't seem to be taxing the PS5.

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Horizon FW looks notably better than Rebirth and does it at 60 FPS lol