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DinkyDev

Member
Feb 5, 2021
5,161
Micheal Douglas went viral last year when he told THR on the "Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania" red carpet that he would only be interested in returning to the Marvel Cinematic Universe as Hank Pym in a fourth "Ant-Man" movie "as long as I can die." It turns out that was actually Douglas' wish for "Quantumania."
Appearing on "The View" (via Entertainment Weekly) to promote his new Apple TV+ historical drama series "Franklin," Douglas revealed that he actually wanted to be killed off from the MCU in the third "Ant-Man" movie. He even asked for a huge special effects bonanza to help send Hank Pym into the great beyond.
"[Getting killed off] actually was my request for the third one," Douglas said. "I said I'd like to have a serious [death], with all these great special effects. There's got to be some fantastic way where I can shrink to an ant size and explode, whatever it is. I want to use all those effects. But, that was on the last one. Now, I don't think I'm going to show up [for a fourth]."
Hank Pym survived the events of "Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania," but it doesn't sound like Douglas is too interested in coming back to the MCU. He played the character in all three "Ant-Man" movies, plus popped up briefly in "Avengers: Endgame." Marvel has not yet announced its plans for the "Ant-Man" franchise's future.
"Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania" was one of two big box office disasters for Marvel in 2023 along with "The Marvels." The film was intended to kick off the fifth phase of the MCU with a bang by introducing the Thanos-like villain Kang the Conquerer (played by Jonathan Majors, who has since been dropped by Marvel after he was convicted of two misdemeanor counts of harassment and assault), but critics largely panned "Quantumania" and attendance fell off after the film's opening weekend. The sequel ended its box office run below the $500 million mark worldwide.
After the release of "Quantumania," Ant-Man actor Paul Rudd told Insider he had "no idea" what his future in the MCU looked like, adding: "None of this is my call, so I try not to think about it too much. So you'd have to ask the Marvel brass that one."
variety.com

Michael Douglas Asked Marvel to Kill Him Off in ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania’ and Pitched a ‘Fantastic’ Death: ‘I Can Shrink to an Ant Size and Explode’

Michael Douglas wanted out of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and asked Marvel to kill off Hank Pym in "Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania."
 

E-bite

Member
Oct 24, 2018
934
Heck they should've let Kang kill Scott in the end. But we'll probably never see Kang again, so whatever.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,146
Los Angeles, CA
It's unfortunate, because I just don't think Ant-Man is the vehicle you want to introduce Kang with.

spoilering for length, and for off topic musings:

[spoilers]

From the start, Ant-Man, like the Spider-Man films, were the more light-hearted in tone films of the MCU compared to many of the others (before Ragnarok revamped Thor's character into a more humorous take. I think Ant-Man, Guardians, and Spider-Man aren't the franchises to introduce Kang with.

I feel like Kang would have been a good character to introduce in a Doctor Strange sequel prior to Multiverse of Madness, while still leading into MoM.

I don't think Kang has to 100% be true to the comics version, and even with Thanos they took creative liberties, so I probably would have done something like this:

I'd set it between Wanda Vision, Loki Season 1, and Multiverse of Madness (so, it'd be WV, Loki, Doctor Strange 2 w/Kang, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, and a Kang D+ series I'll get to below). Have Kang debut in this new Doctor Strange 2, and perhaps he gets bested by Strange (at least Strange is a demonstrably very powerful hero compared to Ant-Man) or incapacitated in some way. After this loss, he sets off on a journey of revenge, traveling the multi-verse, wiping out or subjugating alternate/rival Kangs, while also killing any Avengers from those universes that get in his way, and, Highlander style, he is getting more and more powerful the more multi-verses he traverses and Kangs/Avengers he destroys, leading to him eventually coming back to "our" MCU, where he confronts the latest roster of Avengers in Avengers 5 or whatever.

I'd even do a limited series Kang D+ show (like 4-6 episodes), where, to separate him from Thanos, I'd do a more "fall from grace" style story. He starts off with good intentions (similar to some of the variants we see in the Loki series), but his defeat by Strange breaks him. It'd lead into Loki Season 2, and Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness (now Doctor Strange 3), and while I wouldn't have him be the villain in MoM (I'd keep it as is, as a follow up on the Wanda Vision stuff), but have a stinger at the end where we see where this new Kang is at in his quest to rule or kill the other Kangs, and we get a similar look at the council of Kangs we got in Quantumania, with this new Kang arriving to take over, with his army of subjugated Kangs.

I think it'd make him relatively different from Thanos from a characterization standpoint, give him at least a little pathos by painting him as a fallen "hero" (in his eyes), and sets up why he'd take umbrage with any Avengers he encounters while traversing the multi-verse. And, since Tony Stark is dead, we can now shift the blame to it being all Doctor Strange's fault. lol. Let Strange be part of the catalyst that puts this Earth in Kang's sights along with the events of Loki Seasons 1 and 2.

We could have even included a little Kang teaser in No Way Home's ending stingers (since it happens before Multi-verse of Madness), where Kang targeting "our" MCU again is reinforced because of what Strange/Peter did in No Way Home, further fracturing the multi-verse, and making Kang's desire to control/rule the multi-verse stronger because clearly Strange and these Avengers have no idea what they're messing with.

[/spoiler]

On topic, I really like Michael Douglas and Hank, but I also wouldn't have minded if they went along with his wishes to kill him off. Even with Spidey being a more light hearted series, they didn't shy away from killing off major characters, so it could work for Ant-Man too, I'm sure.

I don't think it seems like he wanted out because he didn't like playing the role, just that, well, he's not as young as he used to be, and knowing that these Marvel movies are this long, intertwined narrative, he's probably thinking about how much energy he wants to devote to these types of films/characters in the long term. I'd have hated to see Hank die, but then again, that's kind of the dramatic point, right?

They could have done potentially the inverse of Janet's sacrifice to save thousands of lives that led to her being lost in the Quantum Realm, and have Hank do something similar, where he sacrifices himself to save Janet, Hope, Scott, Cassie, and the world, but unlike Janet, he doesn't get lost in the Quantum Realm, he actually dies. And since Douglas wanted an epic send off, that could be just that, and a sweet mirror to Janet's sacrifice. Hope gets her mom back, Hank gets his wife back, but it was short lived, and now Hope loses her dad, and Janet her husband.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,564
Pretty sure we're not getting a fourth Ant-Man anyway, so off-screening him seems more likely at this point. Still amazed at what a misfire Quantumania was on every conceptual level.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,720
I might be the only person who enjoyed Quantumania. MODOK was literally my only problem with the movie. I do think they should give Hank whatever send off Douglas wants though.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,360
Hank heroically sacrificing himself to defeat Kang might have helped with the "Kang was defeated by ants" criticism
 

SasaBassa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,104
Pretty sure we're not getting a fourth Ant-Man anyway, so off-screening him seems more likely at this point. Still amazed at what a misfire Quantumania was on every conceptual level.

Eh, sometimes you release a mid/stinker. The only real mark I have against it is that they thought it was one of their best prerelease--that made me think "oh they're heading towards a brick wall at 90mph and have no idea what they're doing."

Glad to see they're addressing the inconsistent quality though. They've been better attuned or saying the right things at least
 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,146
Metro Detriot
Having both Hank and Janet dying would have done wonders for setting up the Kang threat.

Having five of the Ant family was just too much. Janet was nothing but the walking trope of "something bad is happening, but I can't tell you". Hank Pym was sleepwalking through most of the movie; he really had nothing to do.

Thankfully, Loki wrote Kang out. But that still leave the stinker QM was.
 

Blitzwolf215

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,578
Heck they should've let Kang kill Scott in the end. But we'll probably never see Kang again, so whatever.

Honestly Kang should have killed most of them and "won". The ending they came up with is super lame.
Agreed, it might sound grimdark, but if you wanted a big introduction to your next big overarching villain, he needed to win in this movie. Maybe Scott can just be captured while Hank dies, but still, Kang needed to win. It would shock audiences and show how dangerous Kang is. Plus give Cassie some personal motivation to pursue her own goals

And join Ms Marvels team