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Oct 25, 2017
17,907
ZhugeEX provided a report from an institutional investor that interviewed both Microsoft and Sony last year. The interviews touch on how both companies view their current business and what they are looking toward for the future.

I'll drop this here. A report from an institutional investor that held a meeting with MS last year.
Microsoft views the Xbox Game Pass, which now includes new first-party titles, as a compelling value to consumers at $9.99 per month. Xbox Game Pass can also help to drive monetization for smaller third-party titles that would otherwise garner little attention relative to their much larger peers. The inclusion of Microsoft's new games in the service has resulted in a lift to the overall retail sales of those titles as a key point of friction to gameplay has been removed. With that said, it doesn't expect to see new AAAs from the third-party publishers included in the service any time soon. Instead, it expects multiple subscription services to emerge over the next several years, although individual publishers may not have enough breadth to provide a compelling product to consumers.

In Microsoft's experience, subscription services generally boost gameplay time, engagement, and monetization. Within Xbox Game Pass, it is seeing core gamers who want to consume more content that they otherwise couldn't afford, as well as casual gamers who prefer not to pay $60 upfront for a given title. Overall, it has seen a boost to net dollars in its video game ecosystem, with more games translating to more hours of gameplay. It intends to bring the subscription service to PCs at some point.

Microsoft is working on a game streaming service that will deliver console-quality experiences on mobile. According to the company, there are two billion gamers worldwide. It believes that a streaming solution needs three components to be successful: good content, a strong community, and a robust cloud offering. It has termed these items as "the three Cs." It envisions a scenario where it can eventually deliver games to consumers who don't own a console, and believes that cloud gaming is closer to being a reality than it has in the past. A successful streaming provider needs a regional footprint with scale to drive efficiencies for the provider and the consumer.

Microsoft believes that its new studios will help it to achieve a primary goal, the delivery of one AAA game per quarter in order to drive Xbox Game Pass. With that said, it does not want to rush its new studios into delivering games before they are fully baked, and believes that any acquisition takes time to get its legs. Its ideal acquisition targets have proven content and strong development teams.

Microsoft acknowledged that it is developing a new console, but timing is uncertain.


-

I'll drop this here. A report from an institutional investor that held a meeting with Sony last year.
When asked about streaming, Sony discussed PlayStation Now, its cloud gaming service, which already provides low latency delivery. Although it is pleased with the service, which incorporates technology from the acquired assets of Gaikai and OnLive, it does not view it as a big part of its game business at present. It views streaming as more of a distribution play than a business model at present. It sees many predators circling its games strength at present, but believes that nobody has better technology than it does at present, a reflection of the billions of dollars that it has spent to differentiate the experience that it provides. In addition, Sony benefits from a walled garden of roughly 90 million monthly active users and PS4 consoles that should keep its competitors at bay for the time being. Over the past twelve months, almost 95% of Sony devices have communicated with its network, a reflection of the strong engagement of its user base.

Sony noted that the PlayStation platform remains heavily game-centric, and while there has been some takers for their music offering (for gamers wanting to listen to music while gaming), users coming to PlayStation for movies/TV content have been limited. It was noted that management will have to consider strategies for the business – whether to build it as a comprehensive entertainment platform, or as a comprehensive game platform – with an eye to developing subscription services and the user base. This is a key strategic question Sony is deciding currently...whether to build PSN as a comprehensive entertainment platform, or double down on games.

Regarding the struggling PS Vue business, Sony reiterated it was a supporter when the business was developed and launched, with a key attraction being the value of the data generated by viewers, rather than intrinsic profitability. Sony acknowledged that the sustainability of the business in the face of "power player" rivals must be a point of internal discussion. Sony Pictures management hinted at "interesting" plans for the business while acknowledging competitiveness of the space. Sony also wants to turn smartphone games into a cash cow business, and will continue efforts to ramp up SIE's investment in it.

Sony would not fully comment on whether the PS5 is in development, but did foresee a future for PlayStation beyond the PS4, which is on a ten-year cycle. It continues to believe that the PS4 can sell as many console units as the PS2 did over its lifetime, implying over 150 million units. Sony noted that they have yet to decide how much further to market the current console before launching a new console; the current G&NS targets exclude the impact of PS5. Sony has indicated that the timing of a PS5 has yet to be fully decided and has not yet been factored into Sony's three-year plan.

Sony views itself as having the largest developer network at present that is larger than those of Microsoft and Nintendo combined. Any future acquisitions are more likely to center on infrastructure and middleware than on individual developers. A primary goal is to extend the gamer population to the family. It sees a future for Sony's mobile titles in China. Finally, it believes that outside expectations for virtual reality may have been overinflated, and that new AAAs will be needed to jumpstart sales. Developers will need to see an installed base of over 5 million units to become believers in PlayStation VR, a threshold that it may come close to this year.


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I think the acquisition focus on infrastructure and middleware makes a lot of sense for Sony. Their strengths are as good as they have ever been. They just need to improve their weaknesses (software/services) to make their overall standing that much better.

MS viewing their game lineup as force to propel Game Pass makes sense too. The subscription service has the potential to become a core aspect of their gaming business if they can nurture growth properly.

What y'all think?
 

Mington

Banned for use of alt account
Banned
Dec 22, 2018
1,429
MS intending to release 1 AAA game a quarter is crazy.

They will be needing so many more studios to join the team
 

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,208
I think sony is insane if they think they are hitting 150 mil. They aren't dropping the price like it needs to. We should have had 199 playstations since last year.
 

TitlePending

The Fallen
Dec 26, 2018
5,340
MS intending to release 1 AAA game a quarter is crazy.

They will be needing so many more studios to join the team

Sony just recently started releasing several AAA titles in one year, and that's with well established studios.

Curious to see when they think such a goal can be achieved (knowing that they don't want to rush).

I think sony is insane if they think they are hitting 150 mil. They aren't dropping the price like it needs to. We should have had 199 playstations since last year.

I think it also depends how long publishers plan to continue supporting current gen systems and assuming BC. Sony likely doesn't care if you play a game on the PS4 or PS5. They are more interested in keeping consumers in their garden.
 
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pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,681
The Milky Way
MS intending to release 1 AAA game a quarter is crazy.

They will be needing so many more studios to join the team
Not if they work with external developers too. In many ways that's been Sony's strength this gen with the likes of Bloodborne, Spider-Man, SotC, Until Dawn, Detroit, Ratchet etc coming from partnering with external studios.
But they still beat everyone at their current price point.
And as they say, revenue is vanity, profit is sanity.
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
One of the coolest things about 1 AAA game/quarter means we're finally going to get a big Summer game regularly.
 

Toumari

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,305
England
Doesn't Microsoft consider State of Decay 2 AAA? I'm guessing a few of those smaller budget games could possibly fill that 1 AAA per quarter quota.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,766
I think sony is insane if they think they are hitting 150 mil. They aren't dropping the price like it needs to. We should have had 199 playstations since last year.

That's a projection of PS4 lifetime sales, so all the way up to 2023 based on the 10 year plan. As it stands they still have the best selling console in the world without a massive price drop. Whenever they decide to drop it that will be a huge shot in the arm for keeping the sales up. So if they reach 100 million by the middle of this year, that means they'll have 55 million more to go in 4 years. That's 13.75 million more per year. Definitely not impossible, even after the launch of the PS5
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,766
Doesn't Microsoft consider State of Decay 2 AAA? I'm guessing a few of those smaller budget games could possibly fill that 1 AAA per quarter quota.

Yeah, I'm going to have to guess some of those quarterly games MS is predicting will be AA1/2 or so. Are the studios MS acquired known for outputting AAA level titles? Or smaller AA titles?
 

daniel77733

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,639
Absolutely love Sony's direction as it simply caters to me and what I prefer gaming to be. It's great having PS Now as an option but in no way, shape or form do I want to see that as the focal point and direction. Hope that Sony simply stays on course with PlayStation 5. If they do, they will be extremely difficult to match let alone surpass.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,994
Texas
I'd be down for 1 AAA game per quarter from MS!

Both of these strategies fit pretty well with the current places MS and Sony are at.
 

statham

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,449
FloRida
I expect a couple more big buys this year. But MS has a very solid team right now. and the talent they are pulling, exciting times for Anaconda.
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
People do realize that Microsoft considers what the general populace calls AAA as AAAA. For example, halo AAAA, state of decay triple A
 
Mar 23, 2018
2,654
MS intending to release 1 AAA game a quarter is crazy.

They will be needing so many more studios to join the team

Isn't that like 3 AAA titles a year from MS once you don't count the annual Forza/Forza Horizon? It doesn't seem that odd to me given the position they're in. I don't think they take titles like Ori or Cuphead as AAA, which is true but hey, if they released a title like that a quarter each year I wouldn't really complain about it lol

2019: Q1 Crackdown 3 Q2 Ori Q3 New Forza or Battletoads (ayyyyyy) Q4 Gears... or Battletoads(ayyyyyyy)
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,071
2001
That's a projection of PS4 lifetime sales, so all the way up to 2023 based on the 10 year plan. As it stands they still have the best selling console in the world without a massive price drop. Whenever they decide to drop it that will be a huge shot in the arm for keeping the sales up. So if they reach 100 million by the middle of this year, that means they'll have 55 million more to go in 4 years. That's 13.75 million more per year. Definitely not impossible, even after the launch of the PS5

I think it's all but guaranteed if Sony launches above $400 and goes to $500 as I've seen mentioned on here recently.
Families will see the new PS5 and Xbox Two as too expensive but PS4 with a huge library of cheap games and the console at $199, and sales could easily carry it to PS2's numbers imo.

I mean, it just outsold the switch worldwide in 2018 at $299 5 years into its lifecycle. Imagine what $149-$199 will do to this thing.
 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
MS intending to release 1 AAA game a quarter is crazy.

They will be needing so many more studios to join the team
Probably 3rd party devs and most likely rushing/smaller time in development and just make it GaaS so they can make it better down the line. It synergizes well with GP although personally I prefer complete non-gaas experience unless it's content filled on the get go like AC Odyssey
 
OP
OP
DriftingSpirit
Oct 25, 2017
17,907
MS intending to release 1 AAA game a quarter is crazy.

They will be needing so many more studios to join the team
I think it is one of those things where it is a desired goal year after year, but it isn't something they are basing success of their release schedule on, if that makes sense. If they can get 2/4 or 3/4, that would be just fine. They wouldn't really need to release that many a year anyway. 3rd party is there to fill in gaps and it is much easier said than done.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Interesting.

"This is a key strategic question Sony is deciding currently...whether to build PSN as a comprehensive entertainment platform, or double down on games"

It games, it's worrying that this is even a question.

I don't know why Sony are talking about there first party studios being bigger then MS + Nintendo , if MS buy a few more devs, MS May even have more devs.


I predict ps vues days are numbered.


"Finally, it believes that outside expectations for virtual reality may have been overinflated, and that new AAAs will be needed to jumpstart sales"

II've been saying this all along, they should of done this from the start.
If companies treat VR like gaming perhipals of the past, there success will be slow. VR needs to be treated no different to a console, and if they are not willing to take the loss that may entail they should not even bother with it.


GamePass is the future, it is the better model in my opinion.
AAA and AA devs are under tremendous pressure, if they don't sell millions and millions of copies they are dead.
With gamepass games like the order 1886, sea of Thieves and other AAA games which did not meet there sky high expectations, can be successful with gamepass, where consumers would not buy there game of $60 but would welcome these lower scoring games as part of a collection of titles they can play for $9.99 a month.

Reading these reports it certainly appears Microsofts strategy is more established then sony's. However these reports don't show the full picture.

I think any investment on the TV/movie stuff on PSN should come from a separate Sony branch not SCE's budget.
And SCE should get the final say on PlayStation related matters considering how much ass they have kicked this generation and in gens of the past.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
2,222
Yeah, I'm going to have to guess some of those quarterly games MS is predicting will be AA1/2 or so. Are the studios MS acquired known for outputting AAA level titles? Or smaller AA titles?
Ninja theory, obsidian, playground all have done AAA quality games.
We happy few by compulsion was considered AAA as well
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,473
People do realize that Microsoft considers what the general populace calls AAA as AAAA. For example, halo AAAA, state of decay triple A
MS considers Gears to be AAA, you can see that from job postings and the way they talk about the franchise. MS has mostly used AAAA when a game is being developed for next gen during the current generation, like the initiative. Halo infinite has had AAAA tied to it for obvious reasons, 500-600 team at 343 and 100 at skybox working on Halo Infinite for presumably 5 years on release while also developing a new engine (most likely cross-gen.) SOD2 was described as AAA by the developer (who was independent), MS priced it at $30. It should also be pointed out that job postings during Halo 5's development listed AAA.
 

MegaMix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
786
The issue with Microsoft isn't if they are able to put out enough first party games, but if they can make quality ones in the first place. They've always struggled in the first party department compared to their competitors. Now that both Sony and Nintendo are arguably at their primes this feat becomes even more ambitious.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,964
Las Vegas
If they manage to get to a point where they're pumping out a AAA game every 4 months that's going to be something to behold. Hopefully it works out, would love to see that machine in action.
 

Arebours

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,656
I consider subscription and streaming services harmful for the diversity of the industry and the medium. These services effectively re-raises the barriers to publishing and developing games that successfully was torn down over the last decade and moves back all the control into the hands of platform owners. I wouldn't mind if they stay as a niche means of consuming games but I'm afraid of the possibility that they like video and music services will capture too much of the market. I can't think of a worse future for games overall. The implications are dystopian. Consoles are really driving the worst trends on the business-side of gaming, it's such a shame.
 
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OP
OP
DriftingSpirit
Oct 25, 2017
17,907
I think sony is insane if they think they are hitting 150 mil. They aren't dropping the price like it needs to. We should have had 199 playstations since last year.
The PS2 sold a great deal of units after PS3 came out, so I think it is more a matter of how they handle PS4 post-PS5 rather than what they do now.
 

danrbg

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Dec 9, 2018
733
1 AAA quarterly can start this year with CD3, Ori, Gears and Battletoads.
 
OP
OP
DriftingSpirit
Oct 25, 2017
17,907
Yeah, I'm going to have to guess some of those quarterly games MS is predicting will be AA1/2 or so. Are the studios MS acquired known for outputting AAA level titles? Or smaller AA titles?
Smaller games.

I believe it was stated that MS isn't going to make them produce huge games either. MS will just make it easier for them to release the type of games they've already been making. Which goes hand in hand with trying to push Game Pass.
 

Dabi3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,552
Does Microsoft consider State of Decay and Crackdown AAA? If so, it's probably possible.
 

Startropper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,005
Yeah, I'm going to have to guess some of those quarterly games MS is predicting will be AA1/2 or so. Are the studios MS acquired known for outputting AAA level titles? Or smaller AA titles?

Brain Fargo from InXile said something interesting on what scale their games are aiming for.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-11-19-inxile-acquired-by-microsoft-the-interview

But we want to step it up a bit because there's this uncanny valley between the double-A and the triple-A. We could come out with a game like Bard's Tale [4] and we could say, 'Hey, it's a 35-person team and it's only $35,' but the people playing it are like, 'Nope. I'm just looking at The Witcher 3 and I don't really care.' We don't get to explain; we just need to close the gap.


It seems MS is aiming for AAA and AA.5.
 
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joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
I consider subscription and streaming services harmful for the diversity of the industry and the medium. These services effectively re-raises the barriers to publishing and developing games that successfully was torn down over the last decade and moves back all the control into the hands of platform owners. I wouldn't mind if they stay as a niche means of consuming games but I'm afraid of the possibility that they like video and music services will capture too much of the market. I can't think of a worse future for games overall. The implications are dystopian. Consoles are really driving the worst trends on the business-side of gaming, it's such a shame.

Also, when you target the 2 billion game players you get f2p lcd games.
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
It seems MS is aiming for AAA and AA.5.

We will see what kind of gsmes they are looking to make. I dont think in this day of service, f2p, etc gsmes, simple aaa/aa delineation conveys enough information. They are looking at the same things social media is, and that is how to drive engagment by making things (for lack of a better word) addictive. Get, retain, and monopolize user attention.

MS is aiming to dominate monthly fee, play anywhere games. They need to become big enough like say Netflix and Amazon's ebooks so they can force Apple to put an app on iOS that will hurt Apple's profitability. Steam tried but they arent powerful enough, so apple said no to their app.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Also, when you target the 2 billion game players you get f2p lcd games.

They have said there
I consider subscription and streaming services harmful for the diversity of the industry and the medium. These services effectively re-raises the barriers to publishing and developing games that successfully was torn down over the last decade and moves back all the control into the hands of platform owners. I wouldn't mind if they stay as a niche means of consuming games but I'm afraid of the possibility that they like video and music services will capture too much of the market. I can't think of a worse future for games overall. The implications are dystopian. Consoles are really driving the worst trends on the business-side of gaming, it's such a shame.

Wouldent subscription services do the opposite though?
Smaller devs can make deals where there game comes to a subscription service, and they can get paid in a lump some without having to sell any copies.
Without Netflix I'm sure lots of the content on the service would never be made.
We will see what kind of gsmes they are looking to make. I dont think in this day of service, f2p, etc gsmes, simple aaa/aa delineation conveys enough information. They are looking at the same things social media is, and that is how to drive engagment by making things (for lack of a better word) addictive. Get, retain, and monopolize user attention.

MS is aiming to dominate monthly fee, play anywhere games. They need to become big enough like say Netflix and Amazon's ebooks so they can force Apple to put an app on iOS that will hurt Apple's profitability. Steam tried but they arent powerful enough, so apple said no to their app.
MS have said they intend to make big single player games too.

There is no reason to think they will be making only fortnite style games.
And fortnite style games are not a bad thing, they are a good thing.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
2,222
Smaller games.

I believe it was stated that MS isn't going to make them produce huge games either. MS will just make it easier for them to release the type of games they've already been making. Which goes hand in hand with trying to push Game Pass.
I think it's more of letting them make the games they wanna make, no matter the size. Like ninja theory I believe wants to make more hellblade size games whereas I think one of the CD from obsidian said he wants to make an elder scrolls/ witcher scale game( I believe it was posted in the Ms first party thread)

Quote about budget :
He (Mike) said we basically went in there to those companies and said: "what project do you wanna make?" And they are like "what's our budget?" And he's "I don't think you understand, that's not our question, our question is what games do you want to make? We are Microsoft and we have the budget, we just want to know what game you want to do, what are your wildest dreams".

https://segmentnext.com/2018/11/26/newly-acquired-studios-for-xbox-exclusives/
 

rokkerkory

Banned
Jun 14, 2018
14,128
Next-gen is going to be fun yet different than this gen. Services will take a bigger role. MS selling less h/w but still making more $ means they can take some chances on h/w pricing perhaps.

I want to see sony's services strategy.

Will be great fun for all of us!
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
They have said there


Wouldent subscription services do the opposite though?
Smaller devs can make deals where there game comes to a subscription service, and they can get paid in a lump some without having to sell any copies.
Without Netflix I'm sure lots of the content on the service would never be made.

It'll, at best, be like Apple music or spotify, and no small indie artist can make a career out of money from that.
 

Arebours

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,656
They have said there


Wouldent subscription services do the opposite though?
Smaller devs can make deals where there game comes to a subscription service, and they can get paid in a lump some without having to sell any copies.
Without Netflix I'm sure lots of the content on the service would never be made.
No, since you would have to get on/be chosen for the service in the first place and with a subscription service the library content basically becomes a strategic decision rather than an open marketplace. Increasing the dependency on platform holders is the same as giving them control.

Not to mention that Netflix shows are funded by Netflix, that's no different than being funded by a big publisher like EA.

I also think there's a huge issue that seldom sees any discussion with how Netflix and their likes limits your access to content that isn't on their platform, but that's a different topic.

I wish people thought about these things a bit more clearly. In many ways netflix for games doesn't even make any sense. The industry is doing very well - it's not like studios have trouble monetizing their games. Compare that with music and video before itunes/spotify and Netflix. You basically had to order dvds/cds and deal with region locking and all kinds of crap if you wanted on demand access to content. By the early 2000's that business model didn't make sense anymore. Piracy and torrenting became big because it was convenient, not because it was free. With games these are all solved problems since a decade. Steam and the other online stores already are the Netflix equivalent to games, it's just different because games are different.
 
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Feb 10, 2018
17,534
It'll, at best, be like Apple music or spotify, and no small indie artist can make a career out of money from that.

We don't know that.
While I don't think indies will choose to only sell there game to sub services. It could end up being a critical space for indies. I certainly don't think sub services will make it harder for indies.