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Mike Z (Skullgirls creator) explains why wi-fi sucks for gaming
- Thread starter Kaguya
- Start date
Hopefully wifi in the future can get better so that this won't be an issue. If you're playing any sort of competitive game online, you should definitely hardwire if you have the ability to.
I hear this a lot, and while it will work for some people, my home wasn't wired correctly to the point where when I tried using these it would trip my breaker every single time I loaded up anything that used the internet.
So my solution? As you said for the other option, I got a 100 ft ethernet cable and used some clever wire management skills.
We're pretty much already at that point if you decide to invest. Ironically, I played Skullgirls for a while competitively when it first hit PC... over a wireless connection and it was never an issue. Yes, I understand that you should do you best to have a wired connection but if someone spends the money on some decent networking equipment, it's not as much of an issue as it's made out to be. The big issue is using your providers equipment or the networking equipment that's built into consoles.
I'll get blown out for saying this for sure as I always do around here, but, whatever.
It wouldn't. It would just add Wi-Fi problems on top of your general connection problems.
Yup same.
Powerline can be a good fix, but if your wiring is less than optimal, which most people are because no one knows how to talk to electricians when they're actually in the building phase of a new property, they can be more trouble than they're worth.
The best solution is learning how to punch cable (It's quite easy).
Unfortunately, I just don't have that option for my PC. The router is downstairs, so my PS4 and XB1 are wired-in, but I can't do that for my desktop, since it's in another room in a very old house that wasn't wired for CAT6 and such. Powerline doesn't work, either.
Nah I'm fairly certain its because we have one of those standard Xfinity modems.
If I had an actual good modem/wifi router it could very well work better. PLus maybe a better connection. I'm just saying that wired isn't ALWAYS better than wireless. A good wireless set up can be better than a shitty wired set up
When I play now it will be good connections and then hit me with massive lag spkes. S
Wifi will always be the first issue in line; which is part of why I think everyone thinks Nintendo Switch Online is bad. The Switch Wifi chip is piss; if everyone is on that shite wifi on top of their own in home issues (streaming, low signal, etc.) then everyone will feel like online is bad, because you're at the mercy of the worst connection.
This issue exists on every platform; PC, PS4, whatever. Play any fighting game, you'll get those horrific connections. It's when everyone defaults to using Wifi, the people on GOOD or Wired connections actually gets punished for it because they see the wild inconsistencies in connections and their machines are the ones that have to compensate. The ones with the actual bad connections at least have consistenly bad connections, and don't suffer so wildly when issues occur.
That's why some players in online games seem to be so crisp in lag; they're used to that amount of it.
This issue exists on every platform; PC, PS4, whatever. Play any fighting game, you'll get those horrific connections. It's when everyone defaults to using Wifi, the people on GOOD or Wired connections actually gets punished for it because they see the wild inconsistencies in connections and their machines are the ones that have to compensate. The ones with the actual bad connections at least have consistenly bad connections, and don't suffer so wildly when issues occur.
That's why some players in online games seem to be so crisp in lag; they're used to that amount of it.
There should be a really bad hw problems to have a Wi-Fi better than wired.
That has nothing to do with wired vs wireless.
Those modem/router combos given by cable companies are so bad, they are starved of resources for routing.
Superior alternative if you can afford it and don't use interfering cable services:
MoCA 2.0
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077Y3SQXR/
1) Put one by your main router
2) put another in the room you want ethernet
3) make sure they're on the same coaxial network
4) make sure there's a filter going out from the house coaxial line (the adapters come with one, each)
5) enjoy gigabit networking in your house
This. Powerline worked like a dream at my old house, but where I live now it's pretty trash. I ended up just running a bunch of long cables.
On top of which, they're costing you a shit ton over the course of a year.
You're much better off buying a docsys 4.0 modem and a GOOD, WELL POWERED router than you are renting from the telcoms. The cost of both is the same as renting if you have a 2 year contract and the difference in network speed and reliability is night and day.
I'm pretty certain it's just physics at this point. Sometimes WiFi experiences interference. You can't ever avoid that unless you can completely control the RF environment in the local area, so WiFi will sometimes drop packets leading to lag spikes.
Yeah so my point still stands. A good modem and router can give you a better connection via wifi than a shit one that is wired.
Wired is still better in basically every other case though
That 134ms ping spike is an issue with Wi-Fi drivers or adapters. I experience it if I leave my PC on for several days. Not sure if it's specifically Windows related or related to the driver. Wi-Fi specifically is not the cause.
While Wi-Fi will never be as consistent as wired, with a decent router and wireless adapter, the jitter is more than low enough for online gaming. The problem shown here is something else that is poorly documented, and I haven't found the culprit yet.
I've actually been running constant pings to Google for days. The highest spikes I will see are spikes of ~20ms or so very rarely, but those might be related to buffer bloat since I have a fairly old router. Speaking of buffer bloat: using a wired connection is not going to solve the issue of using a bad router. Since I at least have some level of queue management on my router (using WRT-Merlin), I likely have a more stable ping than most people do on wired.
Here are my pings over 5GHz:
While Wi-Fi will never be as consistent as wired, with a decent router and wireless adapter, the jitter is more than low enough for online gaming. The problem shown here is something else that is poorly documented, and I haven't found the culprit yet.
I've actually been running constant pings to Google for days. The highest spikes I will see are spikes of ~20ms or so very rarely, but those might be related to buffer bloat since I have a fairly old router. Speaking of buffer bloat: using a wired connection is not going to solve the issue of using a bad router. Since I at least have some level of queue management on my router (using WRT-Merlin), I likely have a more stable ping than most people do on wired.
Here are my pings over 5GHz:
Real talk, all you people who think Wifi is fine for gaming, try this.
Open up a command prompt or Terminal window and type in: ping 8.8.8.8 -n 20.
Do it a few times. How many returns are you seeing that are over 100ms? Even if you have good equipment, it'll still be a lot (I have a very good router near by to where I'm currently sitting on this laptop and I'm still getting quite a few).
Each one of those spikes makes gaming intolerable. And no one is saying that you're doing it on purpose or that people who game over wifi are being malicious, but we are saying that this unfortunate truth leads to most interactions with people playing over wifi being absolutely terrible.
You should always try to make the effort to wire up your gaming hardware.
Open up a command prompt or Terminal window and type in: ping 8.8.8.8 -n 20.
Do it a few times. How many returns are you seeing that are over 100ms? Even if you have good equipment, it'll still be a lot (I have a very good router near by to where I'm currently sitting on this laptop and I'm still getting quite a few).
Each one of those spikes makes gaming intolerable. And no one is saying that you're doing it on purpose or that people who game over wifi are being malicious, but we are saying that this unfortunate truth leads to most interactions with people playing over wifi being absolutely terrible.
You should always try to make the effort to wire up your gaming hardware.
Unfortunately I can't really go drilling holes in the walls of my current apartment, so wi-fi it is!
For the benefit of other people lol? Unless you're talking about extremely competitive games, wifi gaming is a non issue for most.
Your statement seems ott.
This take is based on preconceptions about WiFi. So much depends on your equipment and your environment. I'm on an uncontested 5GHz band and my pings are very stable. They're more than stable enough for online gaming which has a short buffer time built in to accommodate mild jitter.
If you're experiencing issues, then your router, adapter, or environment are likely to blame.
Here's 4 minutes of pinging google on my router:
Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=15ms - Pastebin.com
Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.
I mean yes, for extremely competitive games, like the one made by the maker of the video in the OT.
The video is literally and example based on rollback netcode for fighting games.
Absolutely.
I always knew this was the case, but ever since I got 550mbit internet last year, it really hit home. Even Wireless AC via laptop or phone right next to the router, while close to the maximum speed, it is still bottlenecked and the connection speed is unstable, fluctuating wildly between 500-550mbit.
I recent built a Gaming PC, and the room it's in is a Wireless blackspot unfortunately. Using my phone as a wireless AC adaptor only enabled me to get 50mbit down, similar speed with PowerPlug. I finally got a long enough Ethernet Cable and tried it today, PC to Router direct.
I got a stable 576mbit down.
Never ever using Wireless again. I still live with my parents, but my own future home will absolutely have Ethernet built into the house. It's the only civilised way to live :P
Great video! Though I wonder how much good it will do as there's still people touting how great thier Wi-Fi connection is.
All the more reason to at least make an effort to plug in, as realistically, what's the chance that you're going to be able to function on an uncontested 5GH band in any sort of metropolitan area? You're right that your environment is going to be the number 1 cause of unreliable signal, but realistically, how many people are going to be in situation where it's actually not? How many people out there can say that their wifi network is 100% not being impacted by factors outside of their control?
I mean, if you live in a house, you can more than likely find an uncontested band. An apartment building is another thing altogether, but that will likely be solved by WiFi 6.
If you can go wired, by all means go for it. But Wi-Fi isn't always a bad idea as some people would imply. It's both faster and more stable than powerline adapters which are often recommended around here.
Used to work retail IT, hundreds upon hundreds of people with WiFi problems.
It down to shit hardware, pushing the limits of range and/or a lot of building materials here reducing signal in other rooms like granite.
A lot of people just don't understand and think a free one from their ISP will catch everything, still, I will never use wifi if I have a choice.
Of course wifi is going to be better than wired if the wired router is having problems.
It's like saying a 20 year old generic car is going to beat a F1 car who's engine is broken and can't move.
Also, water is wet.
Come on, stop being so obtuse and understand they thought you were talking about your existing router.
It down to shit hardware, pushing the limits of range and/or a lot of building materials here reducing signal in other rooms like granite.
A lot of people just don't understand and think a free one from their ISP will catch everything, still, I will never use wifi if I have a choice.
Of course wifi is going to be better than wired if the wired router is having problems.
It's like saying a 20 year old generic car is going to beat a F1 car who's engine is broken and can't move.
Also, water is wet.
Come on, stop being so obtuse and understand they thought you were talking about your existing router.
Except almost every router out there is just not good or stable and suffers from buffer bloat. You need to install third party firmware to solve that issue, and most people are not doing that. Consumer firmware prioritizes bandwidth over jitter reduction.
Do you have SQM (fq_codel) enabled on your router?
Some more pings for you.
All while streaming on several devices in the home.
Perfect? No. Good enough for Steam in-home streaming? Almost, but not quite. Good enough to fit within GGPO buffers? You bet. The highest ping variance is less than 1 frame.
I mean..yeah? If you're doing competitive games you oughta wire up if you can.
I'm not gonna go out and buy an adapter to play animal crossing wired tho lol
I'm not gonna go out and buy an adapter to play animal crossing wired tho lol
If you can walk from your router to your device in less than 300' you have a path to run a cable at the very least. Even Ikea sells cable management kits that will work with hardwood floors.
www.ikea.com
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Not sure why you're quoting me, has zero relation to what I posted.
You're arguing that the only reason a wired router would be bad would be if it's equivalent to a 20 year old broken car, when the reality is far more dire. If you're using an out of the box firmware on your plain-jane consumer router, you're probably suffering from buffer bloat if your connection isn't fully dedicated to your gaming device.
Great, so we'll revisit Wifi 6 when it hits major rollout in 2 years.
If you live in a house far enough outside of a city where the only wifi signals that you might be able to see are yours and maybe a neighbors, yeah you might be fine. But even in a busy suburb, the fight for bandspace is extreme enough where the likelihood that you'll have free reign over what's available is extremely low. I'm glad you have the knowhow and geographic ability to really get the most of your wifi signal, but you gotta understand, most people don't. And it's cool that your ping results are good, but I didn't post to try and call you out, I posted that so people who think, "meh I have wifi and it's fine, it's a quick set up and I don't care" can understand why there's so much vitriol from people who try to play with them online.
The "FixUltimateOnline" twitter trend is particularly interesting to me because, due to the COVID outbreak and people being sequestered in their homes, a lot of people are finding out just how bad playing online with the switch really is. And yes, nintendo does a lot in their multiplayer games to hide how bad the networking can be (outside of smash, their 3 biggest online titles do amazing jobs masking bad latency), but its starting to drive home the concept that, right now, in April 2020, to consistently get the best multiplayer experience you can, you need to at least try to wire up.
And hey, if you can't you can't. I'm in an apartment, I'm not going to rewire, I'm not going to put holes in the wall, I'm not going to forgo my security deposit for better gaming everywhere. But I DID place the modem and router near enough to the entertainment center where I could have it wired. I DID try to isolate my 2.4 and 5ghz bands as well I could (but there's someone on every one, there's just too many signals in this part of town, most aren't even native to the building). I at least put in some consideration to making my online experiences, no matter what they may be, as good as they possibly can.
The only thing I'd ask is that people at least consider these things instead of just balking and going "my wifi is fine, i never have problems online".
I mean I got mine for literally 3 dollars.
i consider playing online less important than pulling a wire through my house and drilling my walls so i guess i'll just not buy competitive games then shrug
do consider that not everyone with a "bad connection" actually have a choice though. living away from servers, poor choice of offerings on their hometown for internet services, physical impossibility of wiring directly to the router in their homes, theres a myriad of factors that can make someone "ruin" your game other than "they're jerks"
do consider that not everyone with a "bad connection" actually have a choice though. living away from servers, poor choice of offerings on their hometown for internet services, physical impossibility of wiring directly to the router in their homes, theres a myriad of factors that can make someone "ruin" your game other than "they're jerks"
Are good ones actually that cheap? Then I'm surprised more people playing competitive games docked on switch don't grab them haha. Maybe because people wanna play handheld more than docked.
I don't play twitchy/competitive online games on switch (it's literally just been animal crossing for me and family/friends lately) so it's whatever on that end but if I wanted to have a good experience playing Blazblue or Skullgirls, etc - I'd easily get that. Just seems like a no brainier for $3, idk lol
Honest question: is this really always an issue for shooters? I've been playing CS for years and thousands of hours and my average ping is usually less than 20 ms, with zero packet loss, and little variance. Never really had issues. I have my network information on constantly while I play.
For rollback-based fighting games, sure, you should probably do everything in your power to avoid any lag on your end, as for how much the technology revolutionised online fighting games, the downside is that it will shit the bed in anything less than an optimal network environment.
For every other genre, it's nowhere near as much of a big deal. In your average modern FPS, your network connection has to be consistently poor for it to be noticeable, and even then, the only person it negatively affects is you (you might be rubber-banding around the area on your screen, but everyone else sees you as a stationary target).
For every other genre, it's nowhere near as much of a big deal. In your average modern FPS, your network connection has to be consistently poor for it to be noticeable, and even then, the only person it negatively affects is you (you might be rubber-banding around the area on your screen, but everyone else sees you as a stationary target).
I definitely see people skipping and teleporting around in FPS games.
Wired is always best but if you have a good enough connection it can still be solid(definitely not better). I currently use wifi on my PC and consoles (only because I have to rewire all the enet cable in my house and this time I want to try cat6 cables) and luckily enough I have a decent connection and is still strong enough to stream with easily.
I've had my PC connected wirelessly for the past few years, ever since powerline adapters stopped working. To my surprise, my connection actually improved.
Consoles (especially the Switch) kind of suck but I attribute that more to them having shitty wifi adapters than my network itself.
Consoles (especially the Switch) kind of suck but I attribute that more to them having shitty wifi adapters than my network itself.
that's a router issue. I reset my router once every 4 months at the most.
get rid of that shitty router.
well that's because internet over powerline is worse than wifi for gaming.