Miyamoto: it’s very hard to make adventure games (games like Ace Attorney, Hotel Dusk, etc) in the current environment

Deleted member 10737 · Jul 1, 2019

https://www.siliconera.com/2019/07/...te-questions-in-the-latest-investors-meeting/

Q7: It's been 30 years since the release of Famicom Detective Club, yet thanks to the presentation and story it still tugs on my heartstrings. I hope that these sorts of game software that can be talked about for a long time can be constantly released. In the current state of Nintendo, is it possible to make these sorts of adventure genre games? I would like to know about how game development for this genre is structured, as well as communication with overseas developers.

Shigeru Miyamoto, Creative Fellow: Regarding adventure games, I have also helped develop many of them beginning with Shin Onigashima, but it's very hard to make one in the current environment. Nowadays, games are localized in over 10 languages, and adventure games' localization costs are massive in terms of voices and text. Furthermore, younger gamers trend towards being uninterested in this genre. However, designing adventure game mechanics is fun, and are used well in Capcom's Ace Attorney and Level-5's Professor Layton series, so while we can still have hope for the genre, please understand that actively making one is hard in the current mainstream."

personally, i would love to see nintendo publishing adventure games, like they used to in the past with hotel dusk or another code. sadly that studio went bankrupt but it would be cool to see them partner with another studio that makes adventure games.
what do you think? do you agree with miyamoto about younger gamers being disinterested in the genre?

Shedinja · Jul 1, 2019

I still miss CiNG.

PCPace · Jul 1, 2019

They've largely turned the Paper Mario series into adventure games, which can avoid at least the voice acting costs issues, but fans seem to not like them (Color Splash is the best Paper Mario imo do not @ me)

RM8 · Jul 1, 2019

It can't be argued that younger players are usually not interested in this kind of games. I mean they're not big sellers in any demographic, being honest, but I wouldn't imagine the Fortnite generation is itching for more adventure games.

Dark Cloud · Jul 1, 2019

PCPace said:
They've largely turned the Paper Mario series into adventure games, which can avoid at least the voice acting costs issues, but fans seem to not like them (Color Splash is the best Paper Mario imo do not @ me)

Fans don't care about voice acting in Paper Mario. That's a whole different issue

Dest · Jul 1, 2019

I don't think it's that audiences are disinterested in adventure games, it's just that they never get made/advertised as well as they used to. I'm not expecting adventure games to make/meet killer numbers, but I think a well put together one that had some marketing done by Nintendo themselves would actually do quite well. I'd say that games like Danganronpa and Zero Escape count and those have pretty decent cult followings. Imagine those with bigger budgets and more advertising. They'd do really well.

Bring back Cing Nintendo. I need more Trace Memory in my life.

FormatCompatible · Jul 1, 2019

Shedinja said:
I still miss CiNG.

One of my personal wishes will never be realized, that is to have CiNG develop together with Sakamoto a new Famicom Tantei Club.

I also still wish we could get a port/remake of BS Tantei Club.

Aine · Jul 1, 2019

As shitty as Telltale is (well, was), haven't they helped revive adventure games?

foxuzamaki · Jul 1, 2019

Its very important that you state that they are doing the japanese version of 'adventure games'. Games like pheonix wright and cing games

Deleted member 10737 · Jul 1, 2019

i feel like localization costs are a cop out, it's not like nintendo can't afford it, if small publishers can. and they don't have to voice everything in every language. just english and japanese would be enough. i know there's a lot of text involved in these games but it's weird to hear about localization costs being high from nintendo.

Blythe said:
As shitty as Telltale is, haven't they helped revive adventure games?

lol, i don't think telltale is a good example considering what happened to them.

Neoxon · Jul 1, 2019

Given Nintendo of America's tendency to go non-union with their voice casts, I can see voice acting being an issue with regards to the budget of their games (though I guess the 10 languages thing explains why NoA typically goes non-union, since the VA budget is stretched thin).

Deleted member 10737 · Jul 1, 2019

foxuzamaki said:
Its very important that you state that they are doing the japanese version of 'adventure games'. Games like pheonix wright and cing games

you're right, it may cause confusion. let me ask for a title change.

Dest · Jul 1, 2019

mazi said:
lol, i don't think telltale is a good example considering what happened to them.

yeah but there's no denying that, at least the first season or two, the walking dead did wonders

Glio · Jul 1, 2019

After the sales of CiNG it is normal that they do not see it an interesting market, I suppose.

SinCityAssassin · Jul 1, 2019

He has a point, they're almost never big sellers unless they had a pre-built fanbase to ween off of. I just hope they still see the need to make smaller titles that don't need to be mainstream.

Dest said:
yeah but there's no denying that, at least the first season or two, the walking dead did wonders

Lightning in a bottle.

Neoxon · Jul 1, 2019

mazi said:
i feel like localization costs are a cop out, it's not like nintendo can't afford it, if small publishers can. and they don't have to voice everything in every language. just english and japanese would be enough. i know there's a lot of text involved in these games but it's weird to hear about localization costs being high from nintendo.

lol, i don't think telltale is a good example considering what happened to them.

On one hand, that would allow Nintendo to actually unionize the English production. But at the same time, doing voice acting for other languages besides English & Japanese does give their games more worldwide appeal.

Mugman · Jul 1, 2019

PCPace said:
(Color Splash is the best Paper Mario imo do not @ me)

Wow, I thought I was the only one after all these years. I would love a Switch port

And yeah, I do largely view Paper Mario and Luigi's Mansion as Nintendo's answer to modern adventure games

Shedinja · Jul 1, 2019

Dest said:
I don't think it's that audiences are disinterested in adventure games, it's just that they never get made/advertised as well as they used to. I'm not expecting adventure games to make/meet killer numbers, but I think a well put together one that had some marketing done by Nintendo themselves would actually do quite well. I'd say that games like Danganronpa and Zero Escape count and those have pretty decent cult followings. Imagine those with bigger budgets and more advertising. They'd do really well.

Bring back Cing Nintendo. I need more Trace Memory in my life.

I've said it before, but in an alternate timeline, Nintendo saved CiNG and they steadily released episode adventure games on the eShop that filled in gaps between flagship titles for the 3DS and Wii U. I want to live in that timeline.

SalvaPot · Jul 1, 2019

So by adventures they mean "Visual Novels", right?

Hero · Jul 1, 2019

Dest said:
yeah but there's no denying that, at least the first season or two, the walking dead did wonders

Walking Dead S1 was the very definition of lightning in a bottle that they were never able to recreate. It was a literal perfect storm.

MaverickHunterX · Jul 1, 2019

Blythe said:
As shitty as Telltale is, haven't they helped revive adventure games?

Most of my friends knew about the TTG series or similar like Life is Strange, not from playing but watching twitch/youtubers playthrough

Not too many would replay said games if the main draw is the story

SinCityAssassin · Jul 1, 2019

SalvaPot said:
So by adventures they mean "Visual Novels", right?

Visual novels, point and clicks, that sort of thing yes.

Deleted member 10737 · Jul 1, 2019

Neoxon said:
On one hand, that would allow Nintendo to actually unionize the English production. But at the same time, doing voice acting for other languages besides English & Japanese does give their games more worldwide appeal.

true but they still stick to english and japanese VA for many of the games they publish. xenoblade, fire emblem, drago quest, etc.

Chalphy · Jul 1, 2019

I remember years ago, Yoshio Sakamoto was asked about bringing back Famicom Detective Club, and he said that Ace Attorney had basically cornered the market for it, so it wasn't likely to come back. Now even Ace Attorney is in decline, so I don't expect Nintendo to jump back in that genre any time soon.

Neoxon · Jul 1, 2019

mazi said:
true but they still stick to english and japanese VA for many of the games they publish. xenoblade, fire emblem, dragon quest, etc.

True, though the bigger games like Zelda & Smash have 10+ languages for voice acting. Given that the franchises you mentioned have a smaller international audience, it's understandable that they only do English & Japanese.

Deleted member 10737 · Jul 1, 2019

title changed to be more clear

Neoxon said:
True, though the bigger games like Zelda & Smash have 10+ languages for voice acting. Given that the franchises you mentioned have a smaller international audience, it's understandable that they only do English & Japanese.

they'll never expect an adventure game to have the same worldwide and mainstream appeal as zelda or smash, fans of the genre are already used to and completely fine with english and japanese VA, the same is true for jrpg fans.

Velocity:Design:Comfort · Jul 1, 2019

PCPace said:
They've largely turned the Paper Mario series into adventure games, which can avoid at least the voice acting costs issues, but fans seem to not like them (Color Splash is the best Paper Mario imo do not @ me)

It's not but I like color splash, but that one is considered action adventure. They're talking about point and click here

mopinks · Jul 1, 2019

donbe and hikari will surely rise again someday

Neoxon · Jul 1, 2019

mazi said:
they'll never expect an adventure game to have the same worldwide and mainstream appeal as zelda or smash, fans of the genre are already used to and completely fine with english and japanese VA, the same is true for jrpg fans.

Oh, I get your point. It would be comparable to Fire Emblem or Xenoblade in terms of budget, maybe even less than them.

Comic Obsessed · Jul 1, 2019

Still won't forgive you for not buying CiNG Nintendo.

Deleted member 10737 · Jul 1, 2019

Neoxon said:
Oh, I get your point. It would be comparable to Fire Emblem or Xenoblade in terms of budget.

not even that, a great-looking adventure game could be made with a fraction of the budget of a xenoblade or FE game, those games are much more complex.

FluxWaveZ · Jul 1, 2019

Certainly can't expect an adventure game of that kind to become a phenomenon. They'll naturally have a niche appeal. But, like Danganronpa, that can still work depending on the studio and expectations.

Englebert3rd · Jul 1, 2019

Comic Obsessed said:
Still won't forgive you for not buying CiNG Nintendo.

This! So much this!

Sumio Mondo · Jul 1, 2019

I feel Miyamoto is right about Japanese adventure games. Many game devs who made them in the past are abandoning the genre:

Suda51 is nowadays making action games, SWERY made a side scrolling puzzle/platformer (next is a life sim game), Spike Chunsoft is making just Fire Pro Wrestling and anime licensed games, CiNG are dead, Jake Hunter games releases over here and nobody buys them, 428: Shibuya Scramble bombed, Ace Attorney is barely coming out in the West (Capcom never bringing Great Ace Attorney), Professor Layton series hype seems to be dead, Hifumi Kono's horror adventure game bombed (NightCry).

This is a genre I love dearly but it's incredibly niche nowadays even in Japan (mostly just straight up VN games now, since they're less costly and take less time to develop). I'm happy to get anything nowadays.

Shenmue 3 is like one of the last bastions of the genre nowadays that generates any buzz at all.

bane833 · Jul 1, 2019

Sounds like a pretty lame excuse. Nintendo has more than enough cash to fund some experimental games and younger gamers being uninterested isn't an issue at all, there are plenty of older people on the Switch.

StraySheep · Jul 1, 2019

Gonna call bullshit on that and the Switch should be a place where these types of games thrive.

mutantmagnet · Jul 1, 2019

While the language pack costs are definitely going to be significant, I lament that adventure games stopped offering cutting edge visuals that couldn't be possible in a more interactive videogame because it was too expensive.

Too bad that doesn't get discussed anymore with this genre.

LinkStrikesBack · Jul 1, 2019

mazi said:
i feel like localization costs are a cop out, it's not like nintendo can't afford it,

They can afford it monetarily, but it's an opportunity cost that isn't worth it for Nintendo. They won't see a good return on it compared to almost anything they could be working on, and the genre will inevitably mean a large localisation project would be required.

Hucast · Jul 1, 2019

Shenmue is the example. It needed a kickstarter and even after that still a whole lot of drama. It sucks

Dust · Jul 1, 2019

I think YouTube is the biggest enemy of those. "I will just watch a playthrough, It's like watching a series anyway and I won't fuck up anything".

data · Jul 1, 2019

mazi said:
i feel like localization costs are a cop out, it's not like nintendo can't afford it, if small publishers can. and they don't have to voice everything in every language. just english and japanese would be enough. i know there's a lot of text involved in these games but it's weird to hear about localization costs being high from nintendo.

lol, i don't think telltale is a good example considering what happened to them.

It's not that they cant afford it. It's most likely not profitable. Telltale is one example. The studio you mention is another

Even when they do only two languages, people who don't know the two languages picked are always going to be isolated from the experience so that also create a group of people who aren't happy with the situation

Sumio Mondo · Jul 1, 2019

StraySheep said:
Gonna call bullshit on that and the Switch should be a place where these types of games thrive.

They're getting released, but nobody even on here talks about them much, if at all:

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/death-mark-switch/

https://www.nintendo.com/games/deta...daedalus-the-awakening-of-golden-jazz-switch/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI:_The_Somnium_Files

FluxWaveZ · Jul 1, 2019

Hucast said:
Shenmue is the example. It needed a kickstarter and even after that still a whole lot of drama. It sucks

Shenmue isn't the kind of game from the examples Miyamoto is citing, though. Big budget adventure games like Until Dawn, Detroit: Become Human, or Life is Strange still get made and see success. I'd say Shenmue is more in that vein than something like Ace Attorney or Professor Layton.

LegendX48 · Jul 1, 2019

I just want Another Code R, Nintendo, is that too much to ask?

Aine · Jul 1, 2019

Sumio Mondo said:
I feel Miyamoto is right about Japanese adventure games. Many game devs who made them in the past are abandoning the genre:

Suda51 is nowadays making action games, SWERY made a side scrolling puzzle/platformer (next is a life sim game), Spike Chunsoft is making just Fire Pro Wrestling and anime licensed games, CiNG are dead, Jake Hunter games releases over here and nobody buys them, 428: Shibuya Scramble bombed, Ace Attorney is barely coming out in the West (Capcom never bringing Great Ace Attorney), Professor Layton series hype seems to be dead, Hifumi Kono's horror adventure game bombed (NightCry).

This is a genre I love dearly but it's incredibly niche nowadays even in Japan (mostly just straight up VN games now, since they're less costly and take less time to develop). I'm happy to get anything nowadays.

Shenmue 3 is like one of the last bastions of the genre nowadays that generates any buzz at all.

Danganronpa (and to a lesser extent, Zero Escape) was the latest series to really be popular in the west, yeah? It seems like crazy-dark plots full of twists are the only way to really get people's attention. Even then, most people just watch a Youtube let's play.

Sumio Mondo · Jul 1, 2019

Blythe said:
Danganronpa (and to a lesser extent, Zero Escape) was the latest series to really be popular in the west, yeah? It seems like crazy-dark plots full of twists are the only way to really get people's attention. Even then, most people just watch a Youtube let's play.

The Danganronpa writer left Spike Chunsoft and has formed his own company along with the Zero Escape series director and Danganronpa composer (Masafumi Takada) to continue making adventure games since they obviously could see Spike Chunsoft were turning into a boring anime licensed game factory and wanted out.

You're right though, there was a lot of hype on here for series like Danganronpa and Zero Escape and there's been nothing since that's really taken grip on people in the English speaking territories. They're still coming out, like my previous post above demonstrates (thanks Aksys!) but people just keep whining "where's Another Code" "where's Hotel Dusk?" well if people don't support the games that are coming out then they won't. It's funny since the original artist of Hotel Dusk actually released a short novel game on 3DS, which nobody bought, so any idea of a revival is definitely dead for CiNG now anyway.

The genre definitely needs a real buzz again. I hope Uchikoshi's upcoming AI: The Somnium Files revives it.

Deleted member 10737 · Jul 1, 2019

data said:
It's not that they cant afford it. It's most likely not profitable. Telltale is one example. The studio you mention is another

LinkStrikesBack said:
They can afford it monetarily, but it's an opportunity cost that isn't worth it for Nintendo.

both valid points but it's not like an adventure game being made or localized will take away staff from other nintendo games, it'll be a 3rd party dev and there are many localization companies they could hire. and it's not like everything they make is a hit, they somehow greenlit sushi striker.
as a fan of the genre, i just want something with nintendo's polish and touch to it, and it's a good idea to diversify their catalog to include more genres, even if it won't be a big hit like their other series.

Dogui · Jul 1, 2019

A lot of indies does profitable stuff in the adventure genre, it's strange to see a big shot saying it's very hard.

A visual novel like thing is probably harder due to having tons of text but what about games like Machinarium or Dropsy, with contextual info instead of words? Even classic point and click stuff doesn't have that much text.

Miyamoto probably meant games like Detective Club specifically.

Kcannon · Jul 1, 2019

The unfortunate truth is that Cing couldn't escape death.

If it had been bought back then, it would've just delayed its fate.

Jawmuncher · Jul 1, 2019

Is it really THAT hard though? I bet an adventure game of worth would've sold more than Federation Force and Codename STEAM for example.

Miyamoto: it’s very hard to make adventure games (games like Ace Attorney, Hotel Dusk, etc) in the current environment

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