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Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
The UK Royals ain't got nothing on Hans Adam of Liechtenstein - he actually has the power to appoint judges, dismiss ministers or government, veto laws, or call referendums. And he's the richest monarch in all of Europe.
Prince Albert of Monaco is a step further. He can technically be the judge himself, and any judge is ruling in his name. Although probably the most powerful monarch in Europe is the one you'd least expect: it is the Pope. Vatican City is technically a monarchy.
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,977
The UK Royals ain't got nothing on Hans Adam of Liechtenstein - he actually has the power to appoint judges, dismiss ministers or government, veto laws, or call referendums. And he's the richest monarch in all of Europe.

Well, technically, no law can be passed without the Queen's approval and only she has the power to appoint a prime minister or dissolve parliament.

Of course, the last time a royal tried to dissolve parliament against their wishes, they chopped his head off, so the royal prerogative is a bit of a moot point.
 

Mr. Genuine

Member
Mar 23, 2018
1,627
The deference is taxpayers paying for the royal family to live a ridiculous lifestyle for no other reason then they were born to a certain family. The fact that the United States are fools about their own president really is neither here nor there.

I know. You seem to misunderstand me. I'm saying it's good that the deference is payed toward a powerless figurehead rather than an actual elected official, like in the US. I'm saying we should treat the office of the President like other countries treat their Prime Minister.
 

SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
American nationalism results in a lot of worship for their Presidents. Worshiping politicians makes less sense than worshiping monarchs.
What is the difference between a politician and a monarch? All monarchs are politicians. The very nature of royality is that they possess political power, even if only in name. Monarchs are all the descendants of politicians who were were successful enough to be become dictators. Monarchs in modern represtative democracies are the descendants of politicians who lost the tug of war over power.

Personally, I am happy to not be the "subject" of someone. The greatest and most pervasive lie in human history is that there is some difference between society's elites and the average person that justifies the rule of the former over the later. But that is just a lie. Why is a monarch thus deserving of reverence? Merely because historically, if you didn't give them reverence, you would get the axe.

I have no interest in giving any respect or reverence to monarchs. They don't deserve it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,261
Because this very normal island absolutely loves licking boots. I live here and have always been completely dumbfounded as to why anyone likes the monarchy.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
It's honestly so fucking annoying. My ex is Australian and watching The Crown; she won't stop fucking talking about the monarchy and about all these queens and kings and princes or whatever. Their personalities, personal lives, trials and tribulations; they visited this country, they went here or there, or whatever the fuck. Like, who gives a fuck? Why is everyone in commonwealth countries taught to give this much of a shit about the royal family?

It is absolutely fucking asinine.

/rant

Personally, I am happy to not be the "subject" of someone. The greatest and most pervasive lie in human history is that there is some difference between society's elites and the average person that justifies the rule of the former over the later. But that is just a lie. Why is a monarch thus deserving of reverence? Merely because historically, if you didn't give them reverence, you would get the axe.

I have no interest in giving any respect or reverence to monarchs. They don't deserve it.
Also this. Beautifully said. Why carry on this idea that royals are some kind of higher being than the "common folk", which is how they got where they are in the first place? Absurd.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
I have no interest in giving any respect or reverence to monarchs. They don't deserve it.
But American politicians do? In most civilized countries the people hate their politicians. They are constantly questioned and held accountable. That's all part of the check and balances required for elected officials. They do not get away with lies day after day.

Even if it's just figurehead status, I agree that monarchs do not deserve reverence. But politicians most definitely do not deserve it either. Millions of Americans worshiping their presidents to the point of a cult following is not a healthy democracy.
 

AM_LIGHT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,729
At least they don't have actual powers . Here in the middle east, all monarchies in the gulf region still have absolute power, you basically role the dice with every new ruler.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,759
We still have religions and gods to believe in, so at least monarchs are concretely "real", I guess.
 

SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
But American politicians do? In most civilized countries the people hate their politicians. They are constantly questioned and held accountable. That's all part of the check and balances required for elected officials. They do not get away with lies day after day.

Even if it's just figurehead status, I agree that monarchs do not deserve reverence. But politicians most definitely do not deserve it either. Millions of Americans worshiping their presidents to the point of a cult following is not a healthy democracy.
The answer then is to not revere anyone and accept that we are all people. People worshiping anyone is a problem. That cult of personality isn't the result of a particular political system, it is the result of a personality type called "right wing authoritarian". These people exist around the world in every society.

A monarchy validates and exploits this kind of world-view. A king is by nature someone who enriches themselves by exploiting authoritarianism.

I would rather reject that kind of thinking wholesale and try to limit its power over the world. We don't need anyone to be revered.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
In a monarchy, authoritarians are born, they are by design products of the monarchy.

In a liberal democracy, authoritarians are self made. The system to keep authoritarians out of power is not perfect but I'm not going to get bogged down by economic determinism here, believe me I want to replace liberal democracy with left democracy. That said, it's certainly less vulnerable to authoritarians than a system that is constructed around creating authoritarians. This is not some kind of new problem. We killed a lot people over the last 1000 years to prove this. The only question that remains today is what is a humane way of getting rid of monarchs, with "wait for them to die" being the most popular strategy.
 
OP
OP
CherryWoodFuton
Nov 7, 2017
5,099
The Crown is royalist propaganda so I'd just stop watching it.
Is it tho? Watching it so far and while I do sympathize with some characters the majority of the royals in that show act like entitled detached assholes (omg Prince Philip in particular is an absolute prick in season 1 and 2)
 

Bobson Dugnutt

Self Requested Ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,056
The Crown is royalist propaganda so I'd just stop watching it.

I don't think it's something that make anyone change their minds either way tbh. if you previously liked the royals, by and large you're not going to dislike the institution because some of them are pricks in it, and if you dislike the monarchy you're not suddenly going to start singing GSTQ because some of them and their general function are shown as sympathetic
 

JoRu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,792
It may be different from country to country, but here in Sweden they're basically just representatives and to some extent ambassadors of the state at different events, they travel around a lot (well, not right now so much obviously) in the country to visit local institutions and businesses, and they have a lot of different funds to support science, health etc. The king has power on paper, but in practice he really doesn't.

We don't spend huge amounts of money on the royal family, so while they're clearly not essential I think it's worth having them around.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
I'm already so pissed off that my hard-earned tax dollars pay for rascist police departments and an over-budgeted military, but I'd be even angrier if I had to be paying for some useless monarchs' lifestyle as well. I don't get how people can stand that.
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,664
charles-ii-of-spain-2.jpg

I raise you

Francisco_Goya_-_Portrait_of_Ferdinand_VII_of_Spain_in_his_robes_of_state_%281815%29_-_Prado.jpg
 

Aprikurt

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,804
Because this very normal island absolutely loves licking boots. I live here and have always been completely dumbfounded as to why anyone likes the monarchy.
You don't even have to look to the monarchy for that, a vast majority of the country worships a funny posho with blonde hair who outside of a press opportunity wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,962
Netherlands
Although I'm ideologically more of a republican, I've come around (especially after four years of Trump) that it's no coincidence that constitutional monarchies are the most stable and prosperous countries in the world.

To paraphrase Heinlein in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, the problem with democracy is that you have to expend a lot of effort with the reward being power, and so politics usually attracts power hungry people. In a presidential system, the power hunger of the president is kept in check only by other people with a hunger for power, which will ultimately lead to a positive feedback loop and could quickly slide into a dictatorship. The USA came dangerously close with Senate Republicans not wanting to control the power of the executive branch, but are ultimately only the latest step of ever increasing power for the president. Next time they might not be so lucky.

Conversely, in a monarchy, the highest power does not necessarily want it. In fact, there's some argument that the whole being born into a life as a ceremonial circus chimp actively deters them from it. The fact that the average monarch reigns for forty years also makes it resistant to populism.

Moreover, it works as a real check for power hungry politicians in two important areas, and I think the latest season of the Crown highlights this well with Thatcher ultimately being subservient.
1) the theoretical highest position is simply unobtainable for wannabe despots. Can't even think about it.
2) every time, and I think this is very important psychologically, the Prime Minister (or even the legislative branch) wants to get something big done, they need to request an audience with the monarch and bow and curtsey all the way up a long flight of stairs and past palace employees looking down on them. Yes it's ceremonial but it's still humbling.
 

Lkr

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,613
I absolutely love the crown as a show. It has its flaws, but as a costume drama, I love it.

That said, this show also makes me question the monarchy's existence. Moreover, everyone in the royal family seems so miserable. I'm curious how long they hang on until they just say fuck it and cash out.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
The UK Royals ain't got nothing on Hans Adam of Liechtenstein - he actually has the power to appoint judges, dismiss ministers or government, veto laws, or call referendums. And he's the richest monarch in all of Europe.
The head of state does those things in most countries, but at the recommendation of the parliament (except for the veto). Is this different here?
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,261
You don't even have to look to the monarchy for that, a vast majority of the country worships a funny posho with blonde hair who outside of a press opportunity wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

Oh I know, British people have something in their lizard brain that makes them subservient to class bullshit, it's why everything here is so deeply entrenched in class politics.
 

Nista

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,123
The head of state does those things in most countries, but at the recommendation of the parliament (except for the veto). Is this different here?

Well I've only visited his tiny kingdom once (and gawked at the castle a bit from the car). He does seem to have more absolute power as head of state than typical EU countries from this article from 2012. I also didn't realize how hard-core anti abortion they were. Time for Switzerland to invade and steal all their cows! :P

Liechtenstein referendum rejects curbs on royal powers
 

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,366
I am not aware of his criticisms but I sure as heck would like to talk to the King of Jordan for hours about Star Trek

450
 

ItchyTasty

Member
Feb 3, 2019
5,908
Not even kidding, but I think my king is being kept popular through memes tbh (Sweden)

Like they even endear me to him and it's mostly photoshoped pictures.
 
Nov 2, 2017
4,490
dont kid yourself, there is a sub/dom aspect to it also. Very sexual undertones all through it.
 
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